Not that happy with my 720...

[Menneisyys]

Originally Posted by teq

A softreset helps, but this is a nuisance, especially because the 720 needs a rather long time to "boot" after a soft reset.

It's almost the same (around 20 secs) as the boot time of the 2210 and is definitely much better than some other VGA machines (e.g., the e800).

Originally Posted by teq

The 2210 features a better sw/hw integration. E.g. if you plug in the power supply, the 2210's display automatically switches to maximum display brightness - the 720 doesn't react at all.

That's right (with the little correction that the battery- and the charger-based brightness levels are completely unrelated and you don't have to keep the charger brightness at max), and the 2210 also has much finer-grained brightness settings. If only its screen were half as good as that of the 720...

Originally Posted by teq

Although the 720's charge indicator starts to flash, it stops after a while and the battery meter doesn't change. I suspect that USB is to weak to charge the 720's battery?

Seems to be so. Most recent PDA's consume well above 1A when put on an external charger. The 720 is no difference - it's as fast at charging the battery as, say, the 2210. And a USB host can only supply 500 mA at max - no wonder it's just not enough at both powering the unit AND charging the battery. It's a common problem with almost all PDA models.

Originally Posted by teq

Speed: At least in automatic mode (CPU speed), the device feels slow in every day use.

ALL VGA machines seem to be slow at navigating OS screens / menus when compared to a decent 400 MHz PXA255+. WM2003 QVGA machine. It's because of the amount of information that must be passed to the screen.

[Menneisyys]

Originally Posted by teq

A softreset helps, but this is a nuisance, especially because the 720 needs a rather long time to "boot" after a soft reset.

It's almost the same (around 20 secs) as the boot time of the 2210 and is definitely much better than some other VGA machines (e.g., the e800).

Originally Posted by teq

The 2210 features a better sw/hw integration. E.g. if you plug in the power supply, the 2210's display automatically switches to maximum display brightness - the 720 doesn't react at all.

That's right (with the little correction that the battery- and the charger-based brightness levels are completely unrelated and you don't have to keep the charger brightness at max), and the 2210 also has much finer-grained brightness settings. If only its screen were half as good as that of the 720...

Originally Posted by teq

Although the 720's charge indicator starts to flash, it stops after a while and the battery meter doesn't change. I suspect that USB is to weak to charge the 720's battery?

Seems to be so. Most recent PDA's consume well above 1A when put on an external charger. The 720 is no difference - it's as fast at charging the battery as, say, the 2210. And a USB host can only supply 500 mA at max - no wonder it's just not enough at both powering the unit AND charging the battery. It's a common problem with almost all PDA models.

Originally Posted by teq

Speed: At least in automatic mode (CPU speed), the device feels slow in every day use.

ALL VGA machines seem to be slow at navigating OS screens / menus when compared to a decent 400 MHz PXA255+. WM2003 QVGA machine. It's because of the amount of information that must be passed to the screen.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Originally Posted by Ripper014

Actually I think they meant to say... people swear at it...

Count me as one who loves the touchpad. It's flakey if you try to quick-tap on it the way you would a regular D-Pad. Once you get into the habit of "brief touches" as opposed to "quick taps" to navigate, it's actually becomes quite reliable.

As for the issues with VGA devices, I do agree to an extent that MS didn't do enough to take advantage of VGA resolutions. PIE is still not that useful (although it becomes an absolute killer-app when used with SE_VGA in landscape mode) and it would have been nice to have the option to scale down the size of the everything (something in between standard and what's presented by SE_VGA).

As others point out, I'm not worried about vendor software. That will eventually catch up. I went through the same pains when I first bought my 2215 and there were still a lot of packages that didn't play well with WM2003.

[riuster]

Originally Posted by teq

Well, so I got myself a Pocket Loox 720 (mainly because of the positive reviews, e.g. on this page). After 2 weeks I must admit that I'm not that happy with the device.

Why? Well, here are my pesonal issues with the device:

• - VGA support not great in PPC software: There is very little software that actually takes advantage of the VGA resolution. (One notable exception is RepliGo which really is much better in highres. PalmReader, on the other hand is terrible - it's better in QVGA.) Landscape mode is really laughable - 30% of the screen are blocked by title/menu bars. I realize, though, that these points are not Loox-specific, but apply to all VGA devices.
  - Form factor: I love my 2210's form factor - it fits perfectly into the hand and "feels just right". Although the 720 is not much larger (and really small for a VGA device), it still doesn't feel as comfortable as my old device. The scroll wheel is very nice, but isn't as convenient as I had expected (it tends to get stuck if you try to scroll and click in quick succession).
  - Speed: At least in automatic mode (CPU speed), the device feels slow in every day use. It's ok in turbo mode, but I haven't yet found out how hard this is on battery life.
  - Charging via sync cable: It doesn't seem to be possible to charge the 720 using a charge/sync USBS cable. FS doesn't provide a carge/sync cable - and third party sync/charge cable don't seem to work (at least not the one I bought): Although the 720's charge indicator starts to flash, it stops after a while and the battery meter doesn't change. I suspect that USB is to weak to charge the 720's battery? Anybody used a sync/charge cable that works?
  - Issues with Bluetooth: When turning on the device, I sometimes have the problem that Bluetooth isn't available (can't open the Bluetooth Manager). A softreset helps, but this is a nuisance, especially because the 720 needs a rather long time to "boot" after a soft reset.
  - Software/Hardware integration: The 2210 features a better sw/hw integration. E.g. if you plug in the power supply, the 2210's display automatically switches to maximum display brightness - the 720 doesn't react at all. Also, BatteryBar isn't able to control the 720's display brightness using it's slider in the Today settings (this of course may be OmegaOne's fault, but it's interesting - and for me it's a nuisance).
  - Software in general seems less stable - probably a WM2003 SE issue.

On the positive side, WLAN is great, my 4GB microdrive boots much faster when turning on the device and 128 MB RAM is something I may get used to.

I simply haven't made up my mind whether I will keep the 720 or sell it and stick to my 2210 while waiting for WM2005...

Cheers,
teq

VGA support not great in PPC software: There is very little software that actually takes advantage of the VGA resolution. (One notable exception is RepliGo which really is much better in highres. PalmReader, on the other hand is terrible - it's better in QVGA.) Landscape mode is really laughable - 30% of the screen are blocked by title/menu bars. I realize, though, that these points are not Loox-specific, but apply to all VGA devices.

you kidding?

- Form factor: I love my 2210's form factor - it fits perfectly into the hand and "feels just right". Although the 720 is not much larger (and really small for a VGA device), it still doesn't feel as comfortable as my old device. The scroll wheel is very nice, but isn't as convenient as I had expected (it tends to get stuck if you try to scroll and click in quick succession).

again, you are kidding, then how about you sell me yours for 400 USD

- Speed: At least in automatic mode (CPU speed), the device feels slow in every day use. It's ok in turbo mode, but I haven't yet found out how hard this is on battery life.

Plesase let us know, repost

- Charging via sync cable: It doesn't seem to be possible to charge the 720 using a charge/sync USBS cable. FS doesn't provide a carge/sync cable - and third party sync/charge cable don't seem to work (at least not the one I bought): Although the 720's charge indicator starts to flash, it stops after a while and the battery meter doesn't change. I suspect that USB is to weak to charge the 720's battery? Anybody used a sync/charge cable that works?

You are saying there is NO sync cradle?


- Issues with Bluetooth: When turning on the device, I sometimes have the problem that Bluetooth isn't available (can't open the Bluetooth Manager). A softreset helps, but this is a nuisance, especially because the 720 needs a rather long time to "boot" after a soft reset.

what is your benchmark and comparing to what device

[teq]

Hi Menneisyys,
interesting comments, thanks.

Originally Posted by Menneisyys

It's almost the same (around 20 secs) as the boot time of the 2210 and is definitely much better than some other VGA machines (e.g., the e800).

Hm, at least I'm glad I haven't got an e800... 20 secs seem like a long time, especially if you don't have a "progress bar" (no idea what's the correct term in English) like on the 2210 (though the dolphins are nice :wink.

Originally Posted by Menneisyys

That's right (with the little correction that the battery- and the charger-based brightness levels are completely unrelated and you don't have to keep the charger brightness at max), and the 2210 also has much finer-grained brightness settings. If only its screen were half as good as that of the 720...

Thanks to FirstLOOX I've now installed a hack that automatically changes the brightness once the device is charging. Very cool, that take care of that issue. Now, if ownly BatteyBar's brightness slider would support the 720. (BTW: SPB Pocket Plus 2 also features a brightness slider - and it works on the 720. Hm, I really wonder why they can do it and OmegaOne doesn't seem to manage.)

Originally Posted by Menneisyys

Seems to be so. Most recent PDA's consume well above 1A when put on an external charger. The 720 is no difference - it's as fast at charging the battery as, say, the 2210. And a USB host can only supply 500 mA at max - no wonder it's just not enough at both powering the unit AND charging the battery. It's a common problem with almost all PDA models.

Well - for me this really is a nuisance. I travel a lot for a living, and am already carrying a notebook charger and a mobile phone charger - I really could do without a PDA charger! At FirstLOOX some guy claims to have found a cable that charges the 720 via USB - seeing is believing...

Originally Posted by Menneisyys

ALL VGA machines seem to be slow at navigating OS screens / menus when compared to a decent 400 MHz PXA255+. WM2003 QVGA machine. It's because of the amount of information that must be passed to the screen.

Yeah, of course I know - four times the amount of data. But that's exactly my point: The 2210 simply feels snappier in every day use...

Oh, well. Haven't made up my mind yet whether I will keep the 720.

Cheers,
teq

BTW: I've got a Stowaway Bluetooth Keyboard last weekend, and it connected like a charm with the 720. Haven't yet spend much time using it, but TextMaker seemed to work fine.

[NLS]

keep the thing

you WILL regret switching to something else... (erm... that's not a threat hehehe, it's something you will soon find out)

[NLS]

Originally Posted by ekkie

Count me as one who loves the touchpad. It's flakey if you try to quick-tap on it the way you would a regular D-Pad. Once you get into the habit of "brief touches" as opposed to "quick taps" to navigate, it's actually becomes quite reliable.

where is the puke emoticon?
sorry man, count me as one who hates it

I tried to like it, but no
it just sucks (of course gaming is OUT of the question)
fast movement and direction changes are out of the question
feedback is (duh!) zero
mistakes VERY common

sorry, I am not going to fund HP "Live Experiments" Dept. again

[Menneisyys]

Originally Posted by teq

At FirstLOOX some guy claims to have found a cable that charges the 720 via USB - seeing is believing...

It does, but only if the battery's charge is not lower than 75-80%. Under that charge, the charging current is so high that the desktop PC can't supply it any more. So, you can only use the charging UB cable if you don't really waer down the battery before trying to charge.

[Menneisyys]

Originally Posted by teq

BTW: I've got a Stowaway Bluetooth Keyboard last weekend, and it connected like a charm with the 720. Haven't yet spend much time using it, but TextMaker seemed to work fine.

Yeah, I like it too. I've even sent a lot of posts here on PPCT using it from home

[CESkins]

Originally Posted by Menneisyys

It does, but only if the battery's charge is not lower than 75-80%. Under that charge, the charging current is so high that the desktop PC can't supply it any more. So, you can only use the charging UB cable if you don't really waer down the battery before trying to charge.

There is a thread at FirstLoox where the Asus 730 AC power supply + cable were able to charge the Loox 720. I just bought the Boxwave sync-n-charge cable for the 730 as both the Asus and Loox use identical sync/charge ports. Will see if the miniSync Asus cable works to sync and charge the Loox.

[Ripper014]

I got myself a Toshiba e830... and I was not that impressed either... until I loaded in oz_vga... Until then I was not sure I was going to keep the device... now I can say... I love it... and it will be around a long time... Now if they would fix their BT Stack... I would be a happy camper...