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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2008, 10:27 PM
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And once again I ponder moving to the USA...
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Old 07-16-2008, 01:23 AM
Mystic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkistler View Post
Just one question:
How does all this Streaming Video fit in with the talk about BANDWIDTH LIMITATIONS that nearly every broadband provider seems to be either implementing or at least considering?

Have not paid attention to amount of data downloaded for a long time now - but it appears more and more likely that that will again become a concern.

Or is this simply not likely to become a "real world" issue?

Thoughts?
No, not every broadband provider is looking to muzzle bandwidth.
Just a few clueless cablecos that are about to discover the telcos won't play their game. If they want to drive tech savvy customers to the telcos, their competitors will be only too happy to welcome them.
Remember, video is supposed to be cable's advantage over DSL; to the extent that consumers move from broadcast to internet-delivery, they are undercutting the value of the cablecos regional monopolies. Charging by the byte is a non-starter. Even cellular providers are moving away from it.
So, no; it is not going to be a real world issue.
 
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Old 07-16-2008, 01:30 AM
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Sony "answered" by announcing a movie download service on PS3.
http://gizmodo.com/5025507/ps3-gets-...entals-tonight
 
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Old 07-16-2008, 12:59 PM
Intellectual
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix Torres View Post
No, not every broadband provider is looking to muzzle bandwidth.
Just a few clueless cablecos that are about to discover the telcos won't play their game. If they want to drive tech savvy customers to the telcos, their competitors will be only too happy to welcome them.
Remember, video is supposed to be cable's advantage over DSL; to the extent that consumers move from broadcast to internet-delivery, they are undercutting the value of the cablecos regional monopolies. Charging by the byte is a non-starter. Even cellular providers are moving away from it.
So, no; it is not going to be a real world issue.

Telco - such as AT&T? Am currently running U-Verse IPTV, Internet, and (now) VOIP, and there has been concern expressed on user forums about AT&T having plans to 'throttle back' internet usage - partially in response to Comcast's plans, partially to ensure adequate bandwidth for the IPTV signal across their network, and partially Just Because (it would bring in more $$; avoid having to spend $$ to upgrade; The Market Allows It....).

John C. Dvorak’s column Eight Reasons Your Web Connection Should Be Metered was highly controversial - and contained what seemed to be some logical flaws - but a couple of the "rebuttals" to it really did NOT do a good job of actually Countering his arguments!

"Unlimited" internet access reminds me of the "unlimited" web hosting accounts - available for $10/month or so: once you really DIG INTO the contract terms you find out that a) Unlimited does not REALLY mean "unlimited," and b) even such bandwidth / server CPU cycles / Whatever... that IS available is always shared (at that price point...), so you better hope that your "neighbors" are not counting on "unlimited" access...

Looked at from another perspective: Why do people get kicked off "unlimited" web hosting sites for overusage? Why does cable internet service tend to Slow Down at certain times of the day? Why does the "WWW" ITSELF - or, at least access to certain portions thereof - sometimes slow down?
Resources in general have limitations. Bandwidth is not "unlimited" - and as more and more people find ever greater uses for the internet it seems inevitable that we will run into usage ceilings of some sort, whether it be actual Caps, Surcharges, or simply the 'running into a brick wall' effect of Too Many Users trying to Access (Download) Too Many Sites.

In the long run there may be some solutions. But in the short term, at least SOME people are likely to experience pain, whether it be in increased costs or decreased utility. Hopefully most of us will fall under the 'excessive usage' cap - but having lived through the Prodigy / Compuserve era, have no desire to return to the Cost Per Time Connected pricing model, let alone Cost Per Byte Downloaded...

But just because I don't WANT it does not mean "they" won't do it.
 
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Old 07-16-2008, 04:04 PM
Mystic
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Bandwidth is not unlimited, no, but it is very very cheap. At least for the telcos...

Remember, the reason why, 20-odd years after the breakup of AT&T in the MCI suit, we are back pretty much where we started (AT&T and Verizon/MCI and little else) is because in the "irrational exhuberance" of the internet bubble the Baby Bells and a bunch of other companies went hog wild investing in fiber optic infrastructure that is right now unused and returning zero income.

The real reason for non-cable ISPs want to "throttle" usage or go to proportional charges is that they see their fiber pipelines generating oodles of revenue for Google, MS, Apple, and the media companies while all they get is peanuts. So its not a scarcity issue but rather a gatekeeper issue. Just look at the fight over net neutrality and how the players line up to see what the *real* fight is about. Google makes billions of bucks off the net and they pay nothing to the ISPs that deliver their product.

To the ISPs, it looks like they own a toll road that truckers get to use for free and are clogging it up. So they want the truckers from google, MS, Apple, etc, to pony up a cut of their revenue as tolls.
But since Congress in their finite wisdom is protecting the Googles, ebays, and Apples of the world, the ISPs can't get their pound of flesh from the providers. So now they're looking at the consumers, figuring that if they can't get consumers to pay, they'll get them to cut back on usage and hurt the providers *that* way, thinking they can force them to negotiate by hurting us.

So yes, short term there is the potential for consumer pain but long term the ISPs (telcos in particular) would be shooting themselves in the foot if they go out of their way to discourage the use of their core product.
Cablecos have video broadcast revenue and their local monopolies to fall back on if bandwidth demand slacks; the telcos have nothing else, bandwidth *is* their product.

Sooner or later Congress will get out of the way and allow the ISPs to collect revenue from the providers just as cablecos collect revenue from even the OTA broadcasters. Its simply a new era and a new business and there are precious few agreed-upon rules on who is responsible for what and with all that money in play and politicians so cheap to buy it is simply easier to make the fight political than to learn to share the bounty like good little children. As bandwidth usage expands those issues will get settled and reasonable rates (and terms of use) will be agreed-upon for all players . Eventually.
Just not tomorrow.
 
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2008, 01:08 PM
Intellectual
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix Torres View Post
Bandwidth is not unlimited, no, but it is very very cheap. At least for the telcos...
....................

So now they're looking at the consumers, figuring that if they can't get consumers to pay, they'll get them to cut back on usage and hurt the providers *that* way, thinking they can force them to negotiate by hurting us.

Sooner or later Congress will get out of the way ...... As bandwidth usage expands those issues will get settled and reasonable rates (and terms of use) will be agreed-upon for all players . Eventually.
Just not tomorrow.
Felix:

Your points are well made, although I do not have a lot of confidence in Government Decision Making, especially considering the recent past.

At least there ARE competing COMMERCIAL interests: one side calling for increased revenues on "bandwidth" while the other has a vested interest in trying to keep costs down, so your hope for eventually reaching a viable (for the consumer) compromise seems realistic.

And, to be fair, it has to cost SOMETHING to maintain the lines over which signals travel, so it is at least possible that the Telcos have a legitimate gripe.

Also, probably considered too "local" of a perspective when thinking about 'bandwidth': am an AT&T U-Verse customer, and while they run "fiber to the node," the connection from the local "Vrad" to the house is over plain old telephone wires - and available bandwidth is very much a concern.

Can a particular address be connected? Can AT&T offer multiple HD streams? Do they have to apply so much compression that picture is adversely impacted to the extent that people complain / consider changing service? How fast of an Internet connection can they provide In Addition To the IPTV signal? And is that Fast Enough not to lose customers to other providers (Cable)?

Always a balancing act.

Have a wonderful day!
 
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2008, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix Torres View Post
Plus quality control.
Otherwise, all they'd have to do is troll bit-torrent for content, right?
Or are they already doing that?
Previous poster wasn't suggesting we all send in our converted files - he was suggesting distributed computing (like folding, SETI, etc.).

Still, Jason is right - this is a legal issue. I seriously doubt NetFlix is actually ripping DVDs. They get their files from the source.
 
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