WMV: You Are Dead To Me

[Jason Dunn]

I response to my post about the cruel world of video editing, Digital Media Thoughts reader BugDude10 asked me a question, and I thought my response might make for some good front page discussion on the subject.

"Jason: I think this is the second or third time you've mentioned .WMV being "abandoned" by Microsoft -- is this some formal development from MS, or is it just your interpretation that crappy support from MS means that they've given up on it? (It seems like the apps I use still have .WMV as an option, but they're not this year's versions, so I might be a bit behind the curve on this development.)"

Just looking at history. The 9 Series products came out in 2002 - that's five years ago. They haven't released anything new since then - the professional encoder doesn't really count because it's more focused on VC1 - and they've let for WMV format languish. Formats like DivX and Xvid have flourished, h.264 is now mainstream. There are all sorts of fantastic tools for encoding content to those formats - WMV encoding is always an afterthought. Sure, there are some dedicated tools for Pocket PCs created by Pocket PC developers, but look at all the mainstrem rippers out there: CloneDVD Mobile, Intervideo iVideoToGo, Nero Recode - most lack WMV encoding support, or if they have it, it's shoddy at best.

You wouldn't believe the lengths I've gone to over the years to encourage developers to add WMV support - and I've heard story after story about how hard it is to implement WMV support because the Windows Media Enoder is such a buggy piece of software. Where's the wicked easy drag and drop transcoding tool like Divx has?

Where are the useful profiles for modern devices (Zune, Windows Mobile 6 smartphones, etc.) in Windows Movie Maker to make it easier for us to output compliant WMV files? Why isn't there a way to specify a custom WMV export profile in Windows Movie Maker? I've tried creating custom profiles in Windows Media Encoder and exporting them, but it's an exercise in frustration every time. I've tried using my contacts at Microsoft to get some movement on this issue, but it's like a ghost town over there - their digital media devision has all but vanished as far as I can tell.

All the momentum is behind h.264 and Divx/Xvid. The devices, the software tools, the players, etc. WMV is an afterthought, and it's all because Microsoft stopped caring about the format. Even the programs that do come with WMV export support are using profiles from 2002.

This is a great article from last year that sums up my feelings nicely. Since the author wrote that in 2006, Microsoft has added h.264 support to the Xbox, and Divx is rumoured to be coming next. The Zune now supports h.264 and MPEG4 natively. The writing is on the wall: these teams know that WMV support isn't enough, because it's just too damn hard to get content, and find content, in WMV format.

WMV as a codec is solid. The support from Microsoft for it is not. I've given up on WMV.

[Jason Dunn]

I response to my post about the cruel world of video editing, Digital Media Thoughts reader BugDude10 asked me a question, and I thought my response might make for some good front page discussion on the subject.

"Jason: I think this is the second or third time you've mentioned .WMV being "abandoned" by Microsoft -- is this some formal development from MS, or is it just your interpretation that crappy support from MS means that they've given up on it? (It seems like the apps I use still have .WMV as an option, but they're not this year's versions, so I might be a bit behind the curve on this development.)"

Just looking at history. The 9 Series products came out in 2002 - that's five years ago. They haven't released anything new since then - the professional encoder doesn't really count because it's more focused on VC1 - and they've let for WMV format languish. Formats like DivX and Xvid have flourished, h.264 is now mainstream. There are all sorts of fantastic tools for encoding content to those formats - WMV encoding is always an afterthought. Sure, there are some dedicated tools for Pocket PCs created by Pocket PC developers, but look at all the mainstrem rippers out there: CloneDVD Mobile, Intervideo iVideoToGo, Nero Recode - most lack WMV encoding support, or if they have it, it's shoddy at best.

You wouldn't believe the lengths I've gone to over the years to encourage developers to add WMV support - and I've heard story after story about how hard it is to implement WMV support because the Windows Media Enoder is such a buggy piece of software. Where's the wicked easy drag and drop transcoding tool like Divx has?

Where are the useful profiles for modern devices (Zune, Windows Mobile 6 smartphones, etc.) in Windows Movie Maker to make it easier for us to output compliant WMV files? Why isn't there a way to specify a custom WMV export profile in Windows Movie Maker? I've tried creating custom profiles in Windows Media Encoder and exporting them, but it's an exercise in frustration every time. I've tried using my contacts at Microsoft to get some movement on this issue, but it's like a ghost town over there - their digital media devision has all but vanished as far as I can tell.

All the momentum is behind h.264 and Divx/Xvid. The devices, the software tools, the players, etc. WMV is an afterthought, and it's all because Microsoft stopped caring about the format. Even the programs that do come with WMV export support are using profiles from 2002.

This is a great article from last year that sums up my feelings nicely. Since the author wrote that in 2006, Microsoft has added h.264 support to the Xbox, and Divx is rumoured to be coming next. The Zune now supports h.264 and MPEG4 natively. The writing is on the wall: these teams know that WMV support isn't enough, because it's just too damn hard to get content, and find content, in WMV format.

WMV as a codec is solid. The support from Microsoft for it is not. I've given up on WMV.

[Jeremy Charette]

It appears that Microsoft abandoned WMV because there wasn't enough money to be made in licensing. They took the core of the WMV codec and used it to launch VC-1, which is being used in Blu-Ray and HD DVD discs. That's a potential cash cow for MS.

Me? I'm turning my Vista Media Center into a DVD server, and ripping all my movies into h.264. Visually I can't tell the difference, and I'll be able to get several hundred movies on my 750 GB hard drive with no trouble at all.

[RichL]

H.264 is the new mp3. It works on my Windows PC, it works on my Macbook Pro. It works on my Xbox 360, it works on my iPod. My choice for video encoding is a no-brainer.

[Jason Dunn]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Charette

Me? I'm turning my Vista Media Center into a DVD server, and ripping all my movies into h.264.

Yeah, I've been thinking exactly the same thing. What program are you using for the h.264 encoding? You're putting it on the 750 GB drive and using the Xbox to play 'em?

[Jason Dunn]

Originally Posted by RichL

H.264 is the new mp3. It works on my Windows PC, it works on my Macbook Pro. It works on my Xbox 360, it works on my iPod.

I just wish it worked on Windows without any third party software - maybe Windows Media Player 12 will include h.264 playback.

[Outlaw94]

I would like to know what you are using to convert your DVDs to this format. I always have problems finding a nice bit rate that gives me a good quality file without being enormous in size. It's a lot of trial and error for me.

Maybe a how-to article?

Hint hint

[benwaggoner]

Hey, Ben Waggoner here (Technology Evangelist on the Microsoft codec team).

It's inaccurate to state that we haven't done anything since WM9 launched.

On the authoring side, there's been
Format SDK 9.5 (2004)
Format SDK 11 (2006)
VC-1 Encoder SDK (2007)
Expression Encoder (2007)
All of which include a variety of quality and speed improvements that are backwards compatible with WMP 9 or later.

There's a new version of Windows Media Services coming in Server 2008 (currently in RC).

On the client side, we've had
Windows Media Player 10
Windows Media Player 11
Zune Player (two versions)
Several Media Center updates
New Media Center extenders
Great WMV support in Xbox and Zune
Silverlight

We've been supporting 3rd parties like Packet Video and Kinoma on geting WMV playback on non-Windows Mobile devices, and Telestream for Flip4Mac.

[Jeremy Charette]

Originally Posted by Jason Dunn

Yeah, I've been thinking exactly the same thing. What program are you using for the h.264 encoding? You're putting it on the 750 GB drive and using the Xbox to play 'em?

I'm using handbrake. Then using "My Movies" to organize my DVD collection. The Xbox 360 sees the My Movies application in Media Center, and will play my movies natively. Does a FANTASTIC job of upscaling the h.264 to my TV's native 1080i resolution.

I'll try to post a how-to after a play with the process some more.

Still playing with encoding types and rates, trying to figure out where the sweet spot is, though I'm more focused on quality than file size. Still, I'm seeing compressed files between 1-2 GB for a 2 hour movie.

[Jason Dunn]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Charette

I'll try to post a how-to after a play with the process some more.

That would be great - Handbrake, like pretty much every other open source project I've seen, is quite confusing. I set up everything the way I thought made sense - using a preset as well - and it did nothing but bring up a command prompt window for two seconds, then it spit out some unknown file onto my desktop and said it was done.

Don't any of these talented programmers have friends that can help with them UI design? :?

[Jeremy Charette]

*beats head against wall*

Now I've forgotten the correct settings in Handbrake and the 360 won't open the files.

On top of that, My Movies is crashing Media Center.

:?