Let's face it, a Windows OS upgrade price is pretty expensive at normal prices ($149 USD or so). The full version pricing is INSANE in my opinion - when you have perfectly capable desktop computers selling for $400, Microsoft expects users to pay more than 50% of the computer price just for the OS? Yikes - that's just too much.
"When did the value of an operating system, the core of every computing experience, become so de-valued in the minds of users? Sure, Linux is free, but you get what you pay for. The OS is at the heart of everything you do on a computer, yet people are balking at having to pay $49 (or less in the family pack) to get a whole new OS that Microsoft spend three years and millions (billions?) making." (Jason Dunn, 3 or 4 days ago)
FYI, it's well into the billions. Vista cost between $6 and $10 billion (depending on the source and how the estimates are calculated). MUCH more when you calculate overhead, support, distribution, and maintenance (including multiple free service packs). Sure, when MS expects to ship 177 million copies by year end, this number seems small (works out to around $56.60 per copy if you take the $10 billion figure), but that "MUCH more" figure is very big and they also have to line the coffers for huge ongoing R&D costs and to make up for loss leaders (like everything Live). Personally, I don't think the costs are all that extravagant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Dunn
Yeah, I agree. I mean, I'm all for obeying licensing rules, but it's always been a given that when you bought a copy of Windows you'd buy an upgrade, because you were ALWAYS a previous owner of Windows...this new system is more of a shock to the system because it's so different from how it's always been.
But you're still buying the upgrade if you're a prior owner. You just can't (illegally) reuse the old OS. Assuming the upgrade requires only that the activated copy be present when you FIRST upgrade and then the license basically becomes a full one (with the old OS license deactivated), do you still feel this way? Or is it just the possibility (that I think is very unlikely) that you'd need an activated prior version EACH time you do an install/reinstall?
Of course I thought it incredibly unlikely that Apple would openly, purposely, and gloatingly disable Pre->iTunes syncing, so what do I know. 'Course, that was 99% pure ego and 1% (poor) business.
The fact about software development is that it's mostly sunk cost. From release onwards there's some shipping cost for retail versions, but I'll bet most of copies sold will be in bundled OEM versions.
I don't think Jason is contradicting himself. He's right that the OS shouldn't be free, and he's also right that the OS shouldn't cost too much in relation to the hardware. Like I said, it's a mostly sunk cost; any sale that MS doesn't make is a loss in a sizeable chunk of profit.
__________________
Baka. Soku. Zan. - The justice behind the dysORDer.
"When did the value of an operating system, the core of every computing experience, become so de-valued in the minds of users?...(Jason Dunn, 3 or 4 days ago)
I was talking about a cost of $49 USD - to me that's reasonable and quite affordable. Windows 7 upgrade is $119 USD now. That's not outrageous to me - it's what most people have paid for retail upgrades of Windows over the recent years. It does get expensive if you have multiple machines in your home, but the Family Pack pricing helps with that (if it turns out to be true). But with these new rules, an increasing number of people are going to have to pay $199 USD for the full version, and in a world of $399 desktop computers, that seems dangerously high to me - especially given the world economy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptyork
Assuming the upgrade requires only that the activated copy be present when you FIRST upgrade and then the license basically becomes a full one (with the old OS license deactivated), do you still feel this way?
That might be OK...but I swap hardware around so much, the idea of harsher licensing restrictions makes me uncomfortable. I wanted things to get better, not worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptyork
Or is it just the possibility (that I think is very unlikely) that you'd need an activated prior version EACH time you do an install/reinstall?
Correct, that's the issue that frequent re-installers will potentially face and if so, it's a big pain in the ass. When you make things painful for people, many will turn to piracy - I feel like this move by Microsoft is going to INCREASE piracy, not lessen it.
__________________ Want to contact me personally? Use this. Want to read my personal blog? Check it out. Want to follow me on Twitter? Here you go.
That might be OK...but I swap hardware around so much, the idea of harsher licensing restrictions makes me uncomfortable. I wanted things to get better, not worse.
Hardware swapping has always been painful, even with full versions. I'm not 100% sure what combination of hardware signatures Microsoft uses to determine whether you are installing on a new machine or reinstalling on an old machine, but I know that I've had to call MS many times in the past because of a reinstall on a new MOBO or even on a new HD. Assuming my interpretation is correct, this is no worse than before, though admittedly we don't know if it is any better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Dunn
When you make things painful for people, many will turn to piracy - I feel like this move by Microsoft is going to INCREASE piracy, not lessen it.
That I agree with 100%. It is what the publishing and video entertainment industry is facing right now. I think deep down a majority of people want to be legal, but when it is too inconvenient (or ridiculously expensive) to be so, then "oh well, I tried" and "what are the chances I'll be caught?" I know that is the case for me in some limited scenarios (mostly regarding back-episodes of TV shows that are no longer available on Hulu--come on, I'm perfectly willing to ignore commercials if you'll let me). IF Microsoft's upgrade scheme is as feared, then they are in fact likely to face greater piracy. However, I REALLY don't think they are that dumb. Plus there's that whole logic thing. How can you do a reinstall or transfer of an upgrade if you require an activated prior version of windows but the prior version's license has been deactivated. No, I think this is unnecessary FUD.
Plus there's that whole logic thing. How can you do a reinstall or transfer of an upgrade if you require an activated prior version of windows but the prior version's license has been deactivated. No, I think this is unnecessary FUD.
Great point, if the prior license is "deactivated" when you upgrade to Windows 7, there would never be a way to reinstall if you bought the upgrade key or media.
The way it SHOULD work IMO:
The combination of the prior version license key found during the install and the valid key that ships with the upgrade package are used to generate a valid Windows 7 key that replaces both the old key and the upgrade key. This new validated key unlocks a FULL version of Windows 7 that can be installed on a bare drive going forward. All prior version keys are invalid.
Hey Jason. If you have a contact in the Windows team, can you tell them how sucky the upgrade pricing is for Vista users? IMHO, Vista users should get a reduced price to upgrade to Win7 as compared to XP users. It's like upgrading to any other software. For example, if I upgrade to Adobe CS4, then my cost will be less if I have CS3 as compared to CS2.
I bought the Vista upgrade, upgraded my computer hardware and now if I want to upgrade to Win7, it'll cost me more than XP users (who skipped upgrading to Vista) if you factor in the upgrade cost of Vista. Where's the brand loyality?
Maybe I should just switch to a Mac. Let's hope Microsoft still offers a reduced price by October.
Wow, I never thought I'd see the day, but it looks like users in Europe have actually got a better deal for once! In the UK the promotional rate is £49 for Win 7 Home Premium E - that's a FULL rather than upgrade edition although it doesn't include Internet Explorer (has to be installed separately). So although its 1:1 $:£ conversion, this is for a full rather than upgrade edition so not that bad a deal.
I'd also 2nd Jaxim's request - could you perhaps emphasise to the Windows team, Jason, about how rubbish a deal those of us who bought Vista Ultimate ended up with after the promise of all these 'Ultimate Extras' that seemed to end up consisting of a moving wallpaper?! I think a big discount for these customers or a free upgrade copy of Windows 7 would be a much appreciated gesture given how little MS have done to keep up their end of the bargain.
A.
PS - just received my shipping confirmation from Staples.co.uk today - not quite sure how they've managed that given it's not due out for quite a few months yet!!
I'd also 2nd Jaxim's request - could you perhaps emphasise to the Windows team, Jason, about how rubbish a deal those of us who bought Vista Ultimate ended up with after the promise of all these 'Ultimate Extras' that seemed to end up consisting of a moving wallpaper?!
I agree that Microsoft should do something for Windows Ultimate buyers, but I disagree very strongly with the rest of Jaxim's complaints - so much so that I didn't trust myself to write anything because I'd probably come across as a bit angry. And that's all I'm going to say about that.
I don't know what you guys expect beyond a $50 copy of Windows.
__________________ Want to contact me personally? Use this. Want to read my personal blog? Check it out. Want to follow me on Twitter? Here you go.
I don't know what you guys expect beyond a $50 copy of Windows.
Well I'd still like a £33 upgrade version to match your pricing (TFIC!) but what I'm meaning is that they should provide some extra offer just to Vista Ultimate owners.
This current promotion is for any and all that want it (& are quick enough to get it!) and I'd like to see something targetted at Ultimate owners - some sort of final Extra. Most (?all) retailers in the UK now seemed to have run out of the £49.99 promo and Home Premium has now gone up to £74.97 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_...dows+7&x=0&y=0) so this was a pretty short-lived offer.
'Course, that was 99% pure ego and 1% (poor) business.
Linear Mode
