Kindle - Stud or Dud?

[Chris Gohlke]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FI73MA/ref=amb_link_5892762_1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=11F4S1X01WBR3CE00GWQ&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=333267901&pf_rd_i=507846

We had not really posted about the Kindle yet and I was really curious to hear everyone's thoughts. If you have not heard of it yet, which is certainly possible given that it is US only for now, the Kindle is Amazon's new e-book reader. It also has some really cool features, namely it uses e-paper, is uses Sprint's EVDO network with no connection or usage fees to buy books, and allows access to Wikipedia and selected blogs. Also nice are the price of the books, with most being under $10. Out of the gate they have 88,000+ titles and 100 of 112 current New York Times Best Sellers. Negatives include the price ($399) and the fact that you have to pay a subscription to access most blogs. Some things I would like to see are some web features (hey, you should at least be able to shop at Amazon on it) with e-mail being huge but doubtful.

[Chris Gohlke]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FI73MA/ref=amb_link_5892762_1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=11F4S1X01WBR3CE00GWQ&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=333267901&pf_rd_i=507846

We had not really posted about the Kindle yet and I was really curious to hear everyone's thoughts. If you have not heard of it yet, which is certainly possible given that it is US only for now, the Kindle is Amazon's new e-book reader. It also has some really cool features, namely it uses e-paper, is uses Sprint's EVDO network with no connection or usage fees to buy books, and allows access to Wikipedia and selected blogs. Also nice are the price of the books, with most being under $10. Out of the gate they have 88,000+ titles and 100 of 112 current New York Times Best Sellers. Negatives include the price ($399) and the fact that you have to pay a subscription to access most blogs. Some things I would like to see are some web features (hey, you should at least be able to shop at Amazon on it) with e-mail being huge but doubtful.

[Vincent Ferrari]

Every positive review I've read of it comes from someone with a vested interest in the platform. Either they got a "free" one or their blog is one of the listed blogs for $2 a month, etc., or it's being pumped by people with their Amazon affiliate ID's.

With all due respect to Amazon, the Kindle is being astroturfed pretty hard, which proves to me that they don't have such a great product on their hands and are compensating by lining people up to say nice things about it.

[Felix Torres]

Quick thoughts?

1- The keyboard is a horrible waste of suface area.
2- The side buttons (and the keyboard) leave little area to grab the thing.
3- The screen is the same as the Sony Reader screen.
4- The business model tries to ensure lock-in like the iPod; a misguided idea. I thoughr Amazon was above such non-competitive measures; it only plays Audible files purchased from them, they expext you to zap your personal documents through their servers for conversion (and no doubt checking for copyright violations) and they charge you for the privilege. (Even Sony learned to provide users the ability to create their own content.) This, BTW, is the exact same misguided business model that Gemstar used to run the old REB series reader into the ground right down to the lock-in policies.
5- That said, I have heard unconfirmed reports that it *will* play non-DRM'ed Mobipocket PRC content. That, if true, would help a lot, but only if you're already familiar with the ebook scene. Most consumers probly have no idea what prc is or how you make/get such files. And there is no help in the manual. Which is bad because there *are* alternate vendors of PRC ebooks and Amazon should not be afraid to compete with them; they certainly seem to have a good catalog and the prices are not offensively high. They're not as reader friendly as BAEN or Fictionwise but they do have a lot of stuff. Especially good non-fiction, which is hard to get in ebook form.
6- The magazine and newspaper subscription auto-dl thing is a very good idea. They need more than the handful of publications they have now, though. And they need to kill the limit on how long you can keep that content. Right now you can only retain a few issue of each periodical in the reader.
7- Paying for blogs isn't too bad since they *are* providing free EVDO access. Don't like it? Don't sign up. Its *their* bandwidth.
8- Would've been better is they offered Wi-Fi and or USB connectivity to drive down the cost.
9- Have I mentioned how bad an idea that keyboard is? A dozen ways to do the same job with an onscreen keyboard and they use a tacky thumboard on a reader. At a minimum they shoulda put a lid on it. :-)
10- I would wait for version 2.0, when they see where they screwed up or get the Sony or the ebookwise Reader. In fact, the ebookwise wide reader is a pretty polished system by now, even if the tech in it is dated. Works like a charm though.
11- Of course PDAs and Smartphones work fine as ebook readers and maybe now that Amazon is threatening to pull an Apple on ebooks, maybe MS can get some traction (and resources) behind MS Reader and the dozen or so vendors supporting it. Maybe MS has to do a Zune ebook reader to wake up the market.

Bottom line: there is promise and good ideas but two very, very bad ideas ruin it for me. The keyboard I might grudgingly tolerate but the attempted lock-in is offensive to me.

[Dyvim]

I love eBooks, but the Kindle isn't for me.

1. $400 is way too high of an entry point for a device that does little else
2. I already own many PDA's that can all serve as eBook readers, and in many cases will be bringing said PDA with me regardless so might as well converge and use that instead of yet another device.
3. OTA downloads don't really do it for me. Neat feature but I don't need it (and am not willing to pay the premium for it). Desktop purchase and USB sync is fine for me. I don't read eBooks that fast and don't feel the need for impulse eBook buying. I plan ahead and stock my PDAs with enough reading material for any trips.
4. $10 for a DRM-d eBook is too high IMO. The highest I'll go for MS Reader books is $6 and mostly I buy in the $4 range. And the MS Reader books I can strip the DRM from (not to pirate or distribute but just because MS Reader is so buggy that it keeps forcing me to re-activate the same device and then counting it against my device limit). More than that and convenience-be-damned, I'd rather have the paperback or hardcover - I enjoy reading physical books too.
5. As Felix pointed out, Kindle's keyboard is a huge waste of space

I do wish though that MS would start supporting MS Reader again.

[Chris Gohlke]

Here is an interesting note -

"It's surprisingly easy to get non-Amazon material on it. I just plug it in to the USB cable which perpetually hangs off the back of my laptop, and it shows up as a hard drive. I drop .txt and .mobi files into the "Book" folder and they show up. I convert a handful of PDFs to .mobi files using Mobi Creator and they work perfect, Tables of Contents and all. Sweet."

http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/36063

[jeffd]

I think its a complete rip off. There should be no reason to justify such a price. Laptops with 14 inch color screens, a competent cpu, usualy 64bit capable, Hard drive, and a passable amount of ram are being sold off for less then that these days.

[Chris Gohlke]

I'm figuring the price of the EVDO access is what is making it cost so much. Cut out that feature, make it half as much and throw in a couple of free books to get you started and they might be on to something. If I were thinking about buying a couple of new releases at $20 a pop, I'd certainly consider paying $200 for this with the books on it.

Interestingly, for some perspective, if 10 years ago someone told you that you could purchase an full encyclopedia the size of the Kindle that was constantly being updated for $400 that would have been amazing, and probably had the people at Britannica pooping in their pants.

[Felix Torres]

The Sony Reader uses the same eInk displays and costs $100 less so its safe to assume the EVDO module *and* service add up to at least that much. Factor in the lock-in effect of only buying content from Amazon and a version without wireless should sell for half the price of the current version.
For contrast, the Ebookwise 1150, which uses a lower-res monochrome reflective LCd with backlight, a 56K landline modem and 64Mb only of Smartmedia storage, all dated tech but perfectly usable can be had for around $130.
$400 will buy you a pretty good chunk of Windows Mobile Tech, too.
This is going to be interesting to watch and see if the Kindle prospers, muddles, or tanks...

[Lee Yuan Sheng]

If you compare eink with plain LCD tech, you have no business to be talking about ebooks.

Now, my main complaint is the same as most: Expensive, Lock-in, US-only, etc. Ebooks need to function like a book with electronic bits, not as a device with book bits. Until someone gets the hang of this (and with DRM, I really don't mind that if it's done well), ebooks are going to be in this land of niche markets.

[Felix Torres]

Originally Posted by Lee Yuan Sheng

If you compare eink with plain LCD tech, you have no business to be talking about ebooks.

Deepest apologies.
I'll obviously ignore what my eyes tell me about the readability of the two displays in different lighting conditions and what my experience tells me of the battery life of the older tech.
I'll walk away with my head in disgrace...

Or not.
I happen to believe that current implementations of eInk are horribly over-sold and inadequate. eInk will only offer a true advantage over bistate LCD or even plain old reflective LCD when it moves to flexible substrates and/or acquires backlighting.
That has not yet happened so until I see anything different, I'll consider myself as qualified as anybody to discuss my own *personal* real-world observations.
Your mileage may vary and I respect that but as Glen Close said: "I will not be ignored!" :wink:

Look, if you check carefully; I never said LCD was better technology than eInk. I was comparing products and their usability and value.

So lets go there:
On the one hand we have a state-of the art Kindle, with all the 2007 bells and whistles.
On the otherhand, we have the EBOOKWISE 1150, with last century tech:
http://www.ebookwise.com/ebookwise/ebookwise1150.htm

Kindle is lighter, thinner and has way bigger memory and better expandability.
It has the power of Mighty Amazon.com telling you to only buy books from them. To their credit, if you read the fine print and you know enough about ebooks, you will experiment and discover it will also read Mobipocket files and maybe track down a copy of Mobi Creator to make your own. If you do that it will be without Amazon's help. (BTW, I'm a big fan and fequent customer of Amazon. I do most of my XMAS shopping with them. I just expected better from an otherwise savvy outfit.)

The Ebookwise grayscale reflective LCD is just as readable in broad daylight at the Sony/kindle. (I've seen both.) It weighs twice as much but has way better ergonomics. It has a touchscreen and an onscreen keyboard. It has a *backlight* you can turn on or off, not an extra-cost clip-on. Resolution is only 100DPI but as somebody once said, adequacy is sufficent. Especially at one-third the price. Oh, and EBOOKWISE not only tells you you can make your own ebooks, they sell you (for under $10) a nice tool to do so. Battery-wise they have a nice, hefty old lithium ion cylinder that adds half the weight of the device, plus a great grip and a week or better reading time; 20-40 hours. Did I mention its a third of the Kindle price?

The Kindle offers promise but for now it seems to be repeating the mistakes of others by ignoring what came before. Which is PDAs, Smartphones, TabletPCs, and previous ebook readers. All of which I own and read ebooks on. Amazon needs to do better with Kindle 2.0 to get my money, plain and simple.

As I pointed out, GEMSTAR already tried this exact same business model (and pricing) and got nowhere.
Now Amazon is giving it a try.
I don't wish them ill but neither am I certain they'll do much better.
Not out in the real world of 2007.