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View Full Version : Gunfire at Gresham AT&T Store Over iPhone Theft


Jeff Campbell
05-27-2010, 11:00 AM
<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.kptv.com/news/23680215/detail.html' target='_blank'>http://www.kptv.com/news/23680215/detail.html</a><br /><br /></div><p><em>"A man arrested on suspicion of opening fire on two suspected iPhone thieves said he was just trying to do the right thing."</em></p><p><img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/600/at/auto/1274922505.usr105634.jpg" style="border: 1px solid #d2d2bb;" /></p><p>You can see our "hero" is not very happy right now. I'm thinking that is probably because he was arrested and charged with the following:&nbsp;</p><ul><li>Unlawful Use of a Weapon bail $5000.00</li><li>Reckless Endangerment bail $2500.00</li><li>Disorderly Conduct II bail $1500.00</li><li>Unlawful Discharge of a Firearm bail $2500.00</li></ul><p>I'm all for the 2nd Amendment and the right to carry, but you do need to understand the laws and proper use of a deadly weapon, especially the circumstance in which deadly force is appropriate, and this isn't the case here. The basics are he chased a couple of iPhone thieves out of a Gresham AT&amp;T store, and thought he was doing the right thing by trying to shoot out the tires on the getaway vehicle. He also had his gun and concealed handgun license seized, which isn't a bad thing.</p>

Dyvim
05-27-2010, 11:43 AM
I'm all for the 2nd Amendment and the right to carry
I'm not. At least not for hand guns and assault rifles. Want a hunting rifle or a shotgun? Fine by me. That ought to allow everyone to hunt and defend their property just fine.

Really, the 2nd amendment is a relic from a time more than 2 centuries ago when there was no military and citizens were expected to answer a call to arms to defend the country. This is no longer the case and has not been for a very long time. Guns kill and angry people do stupid things in the heat of the moment. Check out the UK. Yeah, people might get beat up or even stabbed in a bar fight, but no one gets their head blown off. Not the case here in the U.S.

Flame away with the "you'll get my guns when you pry them from my cold, dead hands" comments!:)

Jason Dunn
05-27-2010, 05:23 PM
Really, the 2nd amendment is a relic from a time more than 2 centuries ago when there was no military and citizens were expected to answer a call to arms to defend the country. This is no longer the case and has not been for a very long time. Guns kill and angry people do stupid things in the heat of the moment.

100% agreed. Police Officers and and the military get training on how and when to use their guns; the average guy on the street who applied for a license to carry a gun? He's very likely had no training at all, and no real idea of when to use his gun. When you have a death-dealing item on your person, you should really know when the right time to use it is - someone stealing a couple of iPads? Not the right time. What if he aimed poorly, or a ricochet happened, and he hit someone and killed them? All for a couple of iPads?

Wasn't it in Bowling for Columbine that the stat is that Canada has more guns per capita than the USA, but our gun deaths are massively lower, because most guns in Canada are rifles/shotguns for hunting, and not handguns? I don't see a reason for any citizen to carry a handgun.

Jeff Campbell
05-27-2010, 07:23 PM
Having saved myself from being assaulted (or worse) two times in my life because I DID in fact carry a gun (still do) and used it lawfully, I have to disagree. This guy, however, apparently didn't pay any attention to his training and I think the police were more than justified in doing what they did.

Jason Dunn
05-27-2010, 07:31 PM
Having saved myself from being assaulted (or worse) two times in my life because I DID in fact carry a gun (still do) and used it lawfully, I have to disagree.

Ah, you bring an interesting perspective then...and I won't argue with a man who has a gun. :D

This guy, however, apparently didn't pay any attention to his training and I think the police were more than justified in doing what they did.

You're assuming that he has training...is training a requirement before you get a gun? What sort of training? I know virtually nothing about this topic, but I thought beyond the "x day" waiting period for the license, anyone can buy a gun, regardless of how un-trained they are. Is that not the case in the USA?

Chris Baxter
05-27-2010, 08:09 PM
From what little I know on the subject, in the United States anyway, to legally own a firearm you do not need any training, only a FOID card. To get a carry and conceal license, which is needed to carry a concealed firearm, some states require you to take a training course for competency and safety. It should be noted that carry and conceal laws are pretty much state enforced, so the rules and regulations can vary from state to state. Illinois for example, does not allow civilians to legally carry concealed firearms.

Jeff Campbell
05-27-2010, 08:31 PM
Ah, you bring an interesting perspective then...and I won't argue with a man who has a gun. :D

You're assuming that he has training...is training a requirement before you get a gun? What sort of training? I know virtually nothing about this topic, but I thought beyond the "x day" waiting period for the license, anyone can buy a gun, regardless of how un-trained they are. Is that not the case in the USA?

Well, only if you are cheating at cards! ;)

In Oregon, to get a concealed carry permit you have to take a class on gun safety, which covers when it's appropriate to use deadly force. You also go through a background check to make sure you aren't a felon or have had domestic or other violent types of criminal history or any kind of mental condition that might make you unstable. Once you have the permit no waiting period since all the background has already been done. So this joker apparently didn't pay attention or just disregarded all the training he went through in order to get his permit. I can be 99.99% sure that he will lose his permit to carry and won't be able to get another one based on what he did. If you don't have a permit, then there is a 15 day waiting period for handgun purchases, so they can do a thorough background like what is done when you get your concealed carry. However, for shotguns, rifles, that sort of thing no training required, they just make sure you aren't felon, etc.

Jason Dunn
05-27-2010, 09:12 PM
In Oregon, to get a concealed carry permit you have to take a class on gun safety, which covers when it's appropriate to use deadly force...

Interesting - thanks for sharing the background info.

I still believe though that, human beings being the generally stupid creatures that they/we are, I don't trust a random person carrying something that can kill me quite easily. :o I'd rather see someone carry a taser or pepper spray if they feel like they need to defend themselves.

griph
05-30-2010, 02:27 AM
Interesting - thanks for sharing the background info.

I still believe though that, human beings being the generally stupid creatures that they/we are, I don't trust a random person carrying something that can kill me quite easily. :o I'd rather see someone carry a taser or pepper spray if they feel like they need to defend themselves.

Albeit the percentages are low, I just thank God that I live in the UK!

See http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
USA Gun Crimes 9,369 (309 million pop)
Canada (ditto) 144 (34 million pop) pro rata =1,309 gun crimes
UK (ditto) 14 (62 million pop) pro rata = 70 gun crimes

Taser guns are also illegal in the UK!

I think those speak for themselves!