Apple Joins The Ad Wars

[Jeff Campbell]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.cultofmac.com/apple-joins-att-attacks-on-verizon-ads/21912?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+cultofmac/bFow+(Cult+of+Mac)' target='_blank'>http://www.cultofmac.com/apple-join...w+(Cult+of+Mac)</a><br /><br /></div><p><em>"Apple Monday joined AT&amp;T in its attempt to counter Verizon's attack on both the iPhone and the handset's exclusive carrier. In a series of prime-time ads, the Cupertino, Calif. company asked viewers: 'can your phone and network do that?'"</em></p><p><object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" width="600" height="360" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,40,0"><param name="src" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QWC8IzV9Pdo&amp;ap=&fmt=18" /><embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="600" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QWC8IzV9Pdo&amp;ap=&fmt=18"></embed></object></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>"Did you see my email?" is the first one, the second one is called "What time's the movie?" and is after the jump.</p><p><MORE /> <object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" width="600" height="360" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,40,0"><param name="src" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9npoVrRBDHk&amp;ap=&fmt=18" /><embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="600" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9npoVrRBDHk&amp;ap=&fmt=18"></embed></object></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Ad wars, love it.&nbsp;</p>

[Chris Gohlke]

Honestly, I'd never even tried to do this, but I assumed I could. Sure enough my droid doesn't. My understanding is that this is an android, not a verizon limit. So I would think google could probably correct this issue pretty quickly.

[Jason Dunn]

You're telling me that Android can't multitask with both voice and apps? That's idiotic. :eek:

[jasonsong]

you att and iphone haters plz get a brain.
vzw cant do voice and data at the same time.

[Chris Gohlke]

It can multitask apps, but it can't access the internet. For example, since your contact data is cached, I can look up a contact while on the phone. The GPS will get my location, but if the map isn't cached, it can't download it. I can go into my cached email but can't check for new.

[Ed Hansberry]

You're telling me that Android can't multitask with both voice and apps? That's idiotic. :eek:

That is crazy. of course, WinMo isn't too graceful about it. I hate being on the phone talking to someone and my email chime goes off because a new message came in. WinMo needs to be smarter and mute that kind of thing when on the phone.

[Chris Gohlke]

Speaking of stupidity, does WinMo or the iPhone have a setting to have it that email only chimes during certain hours. I end up leaving it mute all the time because I don't want to have to remember to switch it at night so I don't get woken up every time a new email arrives. I'd like conditional alert settings based on the time of day.

[Jason Dunn]

Speaking of stupidity, does WinMo or the iPhone have a setting to have it that email only chimes during certain hours.

I'm not sure about the iPhone - Windows Mobile lacks that feature, which I agree would be a nice one. I'm so sicked and tired of hearing alarms go off at 11:30 at night telling me it's someone's birthday in 30 minutes. The Microsoft person who coded it that way should be shot. With my hosted Exchange account, I can configure ActiveSync to stop synching at 8pm then start again at 8am for instance...

[Ed Hansberry]

I'm so sicked and tired of hearing alarms go off at 11:30 at night telling me it's someone's birthday in 30 minutes. The Microsoft person who coded it that way should be shot.

Agreed. I remove all alarms from birthdays. To have alarms for birthdays and anniversaries is dumb. It is that kind of thing that makes you wonder if the programmer actually uses the device.

[Janak Parekh]

You're telling me that Android can't multitask with both voice and apps? That's idiotic. :eek: It would be idiotic, but it's untrue. It has nothing to do with Android. ;)

The problem is CDMA. EVDO doesn't support simultaneous voice and data. It has to "suspend" the data connection while the voice call is in progress. HSDPA, on the other hand, has no such limitation. Chris, I'm not sure where you heard it's not a Verizon limitation. It most definitely is a Verizon (and Sprint, and any other CDMA carrier) limitation.

All in all, it's a counterattack to Verizon's Droid and Map For That ads.

--janak

[Janak Parekh]

Speaking of stupidity, does WinMo or the iPhone have a setting to have it that email only chimes during certain hours. I end up leaving it mute all the time because I don't want to have to remember to switch it at night so I don't get woken up every time a new email arrives. I'd like conditional alert settings based on the time of day. I don't know of a platform that does what you want, unfortunately. The iPhone definitely does not. In fact, the iPhone's notification options are very limited. For email, it's one chime/buzz per email and the badge counter updates, no popup. That's it.

--janak

[Chris Gohlke]

I'd thought I'd read it somewhere, but am now unable to find it.

Hmmm...I'd think there might be a market for an app that simply changed your alert options depending on the time of day. I'd like a beep during the day to let me know I have an email. But I certainly don't want it doing it while I'm trying to sleep.

[Jason Dunn]

To have alarms for birthdays and anniversaries is dumb.

I disagree actually - I like being reminded that it's someone's birthday, and quite often I sent the alarm for seven days prior so I can order them a present. The dumb part is it being a full-day appointment and it going off at midnight. That's idiotic beyond words, and to my knowledge, still un-fixed in 6.5. :mad:

[Jason Dunn]

The problem is CDMA. EVDO doesn't support simultaneous voice and data.

Ahh...interesting. I've never used a CDMA data device on a long-term basis, so I wasn't aware of this limitation. Score another point for GSM. That's an UGLY limitation for CDMA users...

[Janak Parekh]

Ahh...interesting. I've never used a CDMA data device on a long-term basis, so I wasn't aware of this limitation. Score another point for GSM. That's an UGLY limitation for CDMA users... Indeed. On the other hand, the huge advantage of EVDO is that it can be overlayed with existing 1xRTT networks. On the GSM side, the transition from EDGE to 3G/HSDPA requires the deployment of a completely separate network, and the carrier has to balance the amount of frequency spectrum allocated to each.

This is a big reason why Verizon's 3G is much better than AT&T's; AT&T can't turn down their old EDGE network, as they have too many legacy devices. So, they can only allocate some of their spectrum to 3G, making it more likely to be saturated (especially with a fruity company's popular phone). Moreover, it's a bigger cost and effort to deploy, so Verizon and Sprint have been able to grow their 3G network much more quickly. No one ever talks about this, but for all the AT&T users that are frustrated with their network, AT&T can only do so much; their hands are tied behind their back until they can get all the legacy GSM/GPRS/EDGE devices off their network. They have slowly started reducing EDGE spectrum, but it's a delicate and difficult balance game.

--janak

[Jason Dunn]

This is a big reason why Verizon's 3G is much better than AT&T's; AT&T can't turn down their old EDGE network, as they have too many legacy devices. So, they can only allocate some of their spectrum to 3G, making it more likely to be saturated...

Fascinating - I had no idea. This is why I love community: learning from people smarter than myself. :)

[Ed Hansberry]

It would be idiotic, but it's untrue. It has nothing to do with Android. ;)

The problem is CDMA. EVDO doesn't support simultaneous voice and data. It has to "suspend" the data connection while the voice call is in progress. HSDPA, on the other hand, has no such limitation. Chris, I'm not sure where you heard it's not a Verizon limitation. It most definitely is a Verizon (and Sprint, and any other CDMA carrier) limitation.

All in all, it's a counterattack to Verizon's Droid and Map For That ads.

--janak

Really? Why do I get emails when I am on my Verizon phone then? That email ding while talking is annoying.

[Janak Parekh]

Really? Why do I get emails when I am on my Verizon phone then? That email ding while talking is annoying. Hrm. All the data I see clearly states EVDO Rev. 0 and Rev. A can't. :confused: Could you be on a WiFi network?

Or, I suppose it is possible that a phone could have two separate EVDO radios and enable simultaneous behavior. I haven't heard of this though, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I am pretty certain that a single EVDO radio can't do both.

--janak

[Ed Hansberry]

no. definitely not on Wifi. it is an HTC Touch Pro on Verizon. Happens all of the time.

[Janak Parekh]

no. definitely not on Wifi. it is an HTC Touch Pro on Verizon. Happens all of the time. Ooh, that's interesting. I did some more digging. It seems some devices might be able to use VoIP-like functionality built into EVDO Rev. A to multiplex voice on the same circuit as data. This is the exception, though, not the rule on CDMA devices. Not sure why HTC embedded that on a WM phone and not on an Android phone; it's possible that Android's CDMA stack (which is very new, as of Android 2.0) makes it more difficult to do so. I do know for a fact that previous WM devices I had on Verizon could not do both simultaneously.

On 3GSM/HSDPA, pretty much all devices support simultaneous behavior.

Thanks for the heads-up. If you have a minute, next time you're on a voice call and not on WiFi, see if you can pop up IEM or Opera or whatever you use while you're talking. I'm curious how well this works.

--janak

[Ed Hansberry]

Well, it won't browse. That's odd. Email failed too when I tried to manually sync. I wonder how I am getting emails though when I talk?

[Jason Dunn]

I wonder how I am getting emails though when I talk?

Maybe someone is reading you your own email aloud in a robotic voice? :D

[Janak Parekh]

Well, it won't browse. That's odd. Email failed too when I tried to manually sync. I wonder how I am getting emails though when I talk? Ok, now it sounds more like EVDO. Except for the magic in-call emails. Perhaps you JUST received the email right before the phone call, but WM waited? Doesn't make any sense, but...

Or, via SMS. But that makes even less sense.

--janak

[Ed Hansberry]

It isn't SMS. I get those too but have a different sound.

[ptyork]

It isn't SMS. I get those too but have a different sound.

Are you using Microsoft's Exchange ActiveSync protocol for mail (i.e., Exchange or Gmail)? If so, then I believe Microsoft/Verizon pushes notifications over the SMS band. Thus, you'll get notifications while talking on a CDMA the phone.

Verizon does not implement the VOIP Rev A option which would allow for simultaneous voice and data. Actually, it kind of does with PTT, but not for real calls. We won't see D+V on a CDMA carrier until we get LTE (or WiMAX for Sprint).

Note that EVDO is SOOOOO much better than 1xRTT for smartphones. With EVDO, a voice call will interrupt a data session. Sounds like a bad thing, but with 1xRTT, you had half of your damn voice calls go straight to voicemail just because the phone was checking for new email in the background. Made my Sprint Treo 650 almost unbearable.

No matter what though, the HSPA experience is far superior--for now.

[Janak Parekh]

Are you using Microsoft's Exchange ActiveSync protocol for mail (i.e., Exchange or Gmail)? If so, then I believe Microsoft/Verizon pushes notifications over the SMS band. Thus, you'll get notifications while talking on a CDMA the phone. The latest protocol doesn't use SMS for notifications, it uses a long-lived HTTP connection. And, besides, when using the older protocol, only the notification of new mail is sent over SMS -- not the mail itself. (Although, I suppose the ding could mean the device is saying "I'm getting new mail!".)

No matter what though, the HSPA experience is far superior--for now. And, in the future, we'll have some convergence. Well, maybe, with LTE, though if Sprint goes WiMax, maybe not that much :-)

--janak

[Ed Hansberry]

Are you using Microsoft's Exchange ActiveSync protocol for mail (i.e., Exchange or Gmail)? If so, then I believe Microsoft/Verizon pushes notifications over the SMS band. Thus, you'll get notifications while talking on a CDMA the phone.

No. Since WinMo 5 AKU2, (2005), push notifications are done via HTTP. SMS was dropped because it was unreliable and potentially costly to people traveling globally. Some were getting charged 25 cents for each notification or not getting notified at all if the message didn't make it to the roaming network. that, and the SMS style notification woke the device up for each notification as if a real SMS messge was coming in.

[Chris Gohlke]

Looks like an app was developed during the Android Developers Challange that addressed my idea. It is called SweetDreams, but I can't seem to find it in the market.

http://code.google.com/android/adc/gallery_winners.html

[Sven Johannsen]

Honestly haven't used it with a current WinMo phone, but SPB Phone Suite has the potential for doing some of the things folks were looking for. You can define profiles that are named and selectable, but are also automatically triggerable in numerous ways

The predefined automated profiles are:
· Meeting: This profile is based on the appointment rule which is activated when you have an appointment with status "busy".
· Cradle: This profile is based on the hardware rule which is activated when you cradle the device.
· Headset: This profile is based on the hardware rule which is activated when
Bluetooth headset is attached.
· Car: This profile is based on the hardware rule which is activated when Bluetooth hands-free and Bluetooth car kit are attached.
· Time-based: This profile is based on the time rule which is activated during the defined time periods. For example on Friday night, you would like the “SILENT” profile to be active from 11:00 pm until 10:00am.

Cleverly arranged, I suppose that last one could keep you from having your beauty sleep interrupted.

http://www.spbsoftwarehouse.com/pocketpc-software/phonesuite/