Is this Windows Mobile 6.5.1?

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.istartedsomething.com/20091020/windows-mobile-651-the-65-should-have-been/' target='_blank'>http://www.istartedsomething.com/20...ould-have-been/</a><br /><br /></div><p><em>"Most of you probably know by now that Windows Mobile 6.5 is not the be all end all Microsoft mobile operating system. However, what you might not know is that Microsoft has already up its sleeves another revision of Windows Mobile 6 - unofficially dubbed by the enthusiast community as 6.5.1 - that's faster, sleeker, more touch-friendly and in my opinion, a much better upgrade than 6.5."</em></p><p><img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/600/ppct/auto/1256234023.usr1.jpg" style="border: 0;" /></p><p><em>Windows Mobile 6.5.1 screenshots courtesy <a href="http://www.osnn.net/">Patrick/OSNN.net</a></em></p><p>It seems that when it rains leaks, <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/news/show/95661/leaked-windows-mobile-7-screen-shots-maybe.html" target="_blank">it pours leaks</a> - and above we have what is rumoured to be Windows Mobile 6.5.1 - or, really, it's 6.5.next. No one knows the version number, but it's clearly an evolutionary step from Windows Mobile 6.5. And now that I finally have my hands on a Windows Mobile 6.5 device - thanks to AT&amp;T and HTC - I can see first-hand how badly this is needed. When I powered up the device the first thing I did was change the time zone - and was dismayed to see the same tiny user interface I've seen for over a decade. Over a decade you might be saying? I kid you not, the size of the drop-down menu and other UI elements are the same as they were on the Phillips Velo 1 twelve years ago in 1997. That's beyond ridiculous, but Microsoft seems to have been caught unaware by this whole "finger" thing and now they're playing catch-up in a big way.</p>

[tjl129]

This would be good news if they can finally deliver ROM updates directly to the end users. If they still have to be delivered by the carriers and tested it'll be disappointing. The iPhone has been nice because with the frequent updates it feels like a live platform.

[Jason Dunn]

This would be good news if they can finally deliver ROM updates directly to the end users. If they still have to be delivered by the carriers and tested it'll be disappointing. The iPhone has been nice because with the frequent updates it feels like a live platform.

Isn't that the truth! I just wrote up a rant about that on the Mobius list...maybe I'll re-publish it to the front page... :D

[Djblois]

This would be good news if they can finally deliver ROM updates directly to the end users. If they still have to be delivered by the carriers and tested it'll be disappointing. The iPhone has been nice because with the frequent updates it feels like a live platform.


That cannot be fixed with a minor update like this one. They need to change the whole backend of the Operating System.

[Djblois]

One thing I wish they would do is get rid of the Start Menu button and Ok button on the screen - they are redundant on all new devices. They require the manufacturer to have a hard key for both in all new devices - so why do I need them on the screen too? this will allow the different software writers to have room to put 4 buttons on the bottom as opposed to just 2. This will make it much more finger friendly alone.

[epdm2be]

This would be good news if they can finally deliver ROM updates directly to the end users. If they still have to be delivered by the carriers and tested it'll be disappointing. The iPhone has been nice because with the frequent updates it feels like a live platform.

This is not Microsoft's fault. It's all the device-manufacturer's fault. THEY ought to provide at regular intervals firmware updates to their fones. M$ provide the building blocks and then it's up to the manufacturers to get new firmwares out. It's the same with those dumbfones. Everybody is always waiting to get new features (or at least genuine improvements) in newer firmware but in the end users always complain that their fone isn't being suported much to soon.

In the case of winmo-devices those stupid manufacturors have it easy because majority of the OS development is done by microsoft. In fact look at what rate forums like XDA churn out new winmo-updates. Every new build gets notices by these forums and worked on the get on many devices. While the manufacturors don't even bother. So I think we really ought to stop blaming Microsoft and start targetting Samsung. HTC and all those other greedy bastards who GET the new builds from M$ but don't channel them down to us, paying customers!!!

[ucfgrad93]

And now that I finally have my hands on a Windows Mobile 6.5 device - thanks to AT&amp;T and HTC - I can see first-hand how badly this is needed.

What device did they send you? When are you going to post your review of 6.5?

[Jason Dunn]

What device did they send you? When are you going to post your review of 6.5?

It's an AT&T HTC Pure. I'll be doing some videos, but I won't be doing a full-on review of 6.5. Way too late to the game for that. :rolleyes:

[ucfgrad93]

It's an AT&T HTC Pure. I'll be doing some videos, but I won't be doing a full-on review of 6.5. Way too late to the game for that. :rolleyes:

What finally convinced them to send you a Pure? That is too bad that you aren't doing a review, I'd love to read it.

[JKingGrim]

This would be good news if they can finally deliver ROM updates directly to the end users. If they still have to be delivered by the carriers and tested it'll be disappointing. The iPhone has been nice because with the frequent updates it feels like a live platform.
WM 6.x is still based on CE 5. As such we probably wont see direct OS updates from MS. WM7 is based on CE 7 which has much better separation between the device specific OEM parts of the OS and the MS parts which will allow for easier updating.

[JKingGrim]

One thing I wish they would do is get rid of the Start Menu button and Ok button on the screen - they are redundant on all new devices. They require the manufacturer to have a hard key for both in all new devices - so why do I need them on the screen too? this will allow the different software writers to have room to put 4 buttons on the bottom as opposed to just 2. This will make it much more finger friendly alone.Agree. But that is a requirement of WM7 devices. There is no start/ok buttons in WM7 screen shots. Perhaps they are keeping the start ok buttons here so devices that dont have hardware buttons can be updated.

Like OEMs would give us updates anyway tho..


This is not Microsoft's fault. It's all the device-manufacturer's fault. THEY ought to provide at regular intervals firmware updates to their fones. M$ provide the building blocks and then it's up to the manufacturers to get new firmwares out. It's the same with those dumbfones. Everybody is always waiting to get new features (or at least genuine improvements) in newer firmware but in the end users always complain that their fone isn't being suported much to soon.

In the case of winmo-devices those stupid manufacturors have it easy because majority of the OS development is done by microsoft. In fact look at what rate forums like XDA churn out new winmo-updates. Every new build gets notices by these forums and worked on the get on many devices. While the manufacturors don't even bother. So I think we really ought to stop blaming Microsoft and start targetting Samsung. HTC and all those other greedy bastards who GET the new builds from M$ but don't channel them down to us, paying customers!!!Tru. At the same time MS could do their part by making an OS that can be updated without going through OEMs. All they need to do is allow the OS to be updated while leaving OEM bits in tact. Which they may have done with WM7. If they pull off direct to user updates in WM7 credit to MS for taking care of their customers.

[ibap]

I think I've got one in a closet somewhere, from when the company I was working for evaluated several devices by having a group of us pass them around. When the music stopped I was left with the Velo - which I haven't used since.

As much as I like the finger-friendly navigation, they've also got to be prepared to scale the text on the screen so you can actually read more than 5 words. I've just spent a ridiculous amount of time looking for a (free) photo dialer for the Today screen of my Touch Pro2 - all of the older ones give you these impossibly tiny icons, because they were built for lower-res systems. I've found one for cheap but not free. And no, I don't want SPB Mobile Shell - too much stuff and clutter, and I know just what I want on the home screen all at once.

But the smaller scale is what you need for really reading something - think Kindle in your phone. eReader gets it about right, but I'm nearsighted enough that I take off my glasses to read small text, and it actually makes the reading more pleasant to be able to scan more than a sentence.

[Eriq Cook]

Isn't that the truth! I just wrote up a rant about that on the Mobius list...maybe I'll re-publish it to the front page... :D

Thank you.

[seatec]

This is not Microsoft's fault. It's all the device-manufacturer's fault. THEY ought to provide at regular intervals firmware updates to their fones. M$ provide the building blocks and then it's up to the manufacturers to get new firmwares out.

So I think we really ought to stop blaming Microsoft and start targetting Samsung. HTC and all those other greedy bastards who GET the new builds from M$ but don't channel them down to us, paying customers!!!

Sorry, we have it all wrong, the manufacture have plenty of updates. They are being sent out to all the unlocked phones that they sell.

the real culprits are the providers ( ie., ATT, Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile) they are the ones locking down the phones and restricting access to GPS (Verizon), and only allowing programs that they can charge more money for!!!!

the manufactures only provide their interface on top of "Mobile Phone 6.X.X" it is the providers that change the options on hardware and software that are available in a provider locked phone.

[Paragon]

the real culprits are the providers ( ie., ATT, Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile)


This is absolutely right.....and unfortunately not going to change anytime soon. With Microsoft struggling to hold marketshare they are in no position to be putting demands on their partners to allow an easier upgrade path, regardless of how much we the end user want to see it. We've beat this poor horse to death over the years, and have gotten no where. It's just not going to happen in today's market. Maybe...hopefully....somewhere down the road when Microsoft feels like they have a stronger position they will be able to push this at the carriers with more success.

Dave

[Jason Dunn]

What finally convinced them to send you a Pure? That is too bad that you aren't doing a review, I'd love to read it.

I think you can chalk it up to determination and lots of emails. ;-) As for my review, I'll be reviewing the Pure, so I'll talk about WM 6.5 in that, but I won't be doing a stand-alone written review of the OS.

[Jason Dunn]

the real culprits are the providers ( ie., ATT, Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile) they are the ones locking down the phones and restricting access to GPS (Verizon), and only allowing programs that they can charge more money for!!!!

Indeed...but it's Microsoft who has created this system whereby the operators and the OEMs decide not to offer upgrades, and it's the consumers that get burned in the end. So it's up to Microsoft to fix this, because it's their operating system after all.

[Fritzly]

This is absolutely right.....and unfortunately not going to change anytime soon. With Microsoft struggling to hold marketshare they are in no position to be putting demands on their partners to allow an easier upgrade path, regardless of how much we the end user want to see it. We've beat this poor horse to death over the years, and have gotten no where. It's just not going to happen in today's market. Maybe...hopefully....somewhere down the road when Microsoft feels like they have a stronger position they will be able to push this at the carriers with more success.

Dave

IMO MS should reverse course ASAP; the longer they wait the more it will cost to correct the trend. As it is the situation will only get worse....

[Paragon]

IMO MS should reverse course ASAP; the longer they wait the more it will cost to correct the trend. As it is the situation will only get worse....

Good luck with that, my friend. I'm not trying to defend MS. I'd really like to see the update path change as well. Imagine being MS and meeting with carrier X trying to make sure they stay with you, with all these competitive options available such as iPhone, Android and so on, and telling them that if they do stay with you they must agree to allow MS direct access to their phones which are in the hands of the carriers customers, not MS's, so that MS can do updates. It's just not going to happen soon. Microsoft don't have anywhere near a strong enough position to make demands like that. If I were carrier X I would be showing MS the door and making room for the Android guy to take a seat.

I don't like it either, I'm just looking at it from a very realistic point of view regardless of how much you/me or the rest of us want it to change.

Dave

[frankenbike]

That cannot be fixed with a minor update like this one. They need to change the whole backend of the Operating System.

What they really need to do is change the backend so the GUI can be addressed completely separately without a ROM update at all. I mean, honestly, why should this be so difficult?

Updating ROMs is pretty disruptive, and if the GUI were a separate entity, they wouldn't have to custom build everything for every manufacturer.

I was never really annoyed with the submenus until I got the HTC Imagio. No scroll wheel, no d-pad. No getting around using the fingernail or stylus.

[Paragon]

What they really need to do is change the backend so the GUI can be addressed completely separately without a ROM update at all. I mean, honestly, why should this be so difficult?

It's not difficult. Several years ago I was informed by someone from Microsoft that this was possible. In fact if I'm not mistaken someone at PPCGeeks recently posted a kitchen for cooking ROMs that allows you to change the build without effecting anything else including installed software and any settings. It is actually a ROM update but only flashes what is necessary....beyond my knowledge base.

Dave

[Eriq Cook]

It's not difficult. Several years ago I was informed by someone from Microsoft that this was possible. In fact if I'm not mistaken someone at PPCGeeks recently posted a kitchen for cooking ROMs that allows you to change the build without effecting anything else including installed software and any settings. It is actually a ROM update but only flashes what is necessary....beyond my knowledge base.

Dave

Indeed this is possible......but it'll NEVER happen (main stream), unfortunately. Manufacturers and service providers want too much control over everything.

[adamz]

Ineed this is possible......but it'll NEVER happen (main stream), unfortunately. Manufacturers and service providers want too much control over everything.

Did you see the Software Update control panel on the new ATT Windows Mobile 6.5 devices?

http://www.pocketnow.com/html/portal/reviews/0000001149/review/imgA9.gif

[JKingGrim]

Did you see the Software Update control panel on the new ATT Windows Mobile 6.5 devices?

*image*
Whos point are you trying to prove? Because that supports what eriqcook said. Notice it says check the ATT server, not the MS server.

Not that I agree with Eric though. If WM7 achieves separation of the MS and OEM bits of the OS (which I think it has) it is possible. Of course OEMs and providers will fight it, but maybe if WM is popular enough MS will have more power and say so.

[Paragon]

Did you see the Software Update control panel on the new ATT Windows Mobile 6.5 devices?



That update process is quite different from ROM flashes. It's talking about simple updates much like you would apply using a .cab file......or at least that's what we assume, since it has never been used. ;)

Dave

[JKingGrim]

That update process is quite different from ROM flashes. It's talking about simple updates much like you would apply using a .cab file......or at least that's what we assume, since it has never been used. ;)

DaveActually, windows update in WM6.5 is quite capable of updating the actual ROM. It has been hacked by those at xda developers and they are close (perhaps successful) to using it to do an in place ROM upgrade that leaves user data in tact. So while ROM upgrades via OTA download are already possible, the ROM must be device specific. Hopefully what MS has accomplished with WM7 is separation between the MS OS and the OEM bits (like drivers) so that they can send out an OS upgrade OTA that will work on any device since it will update only the OS and leave the OEM drivers in place. If that is done the only issue is whether carriers will allow it and if they can stop MS.

[Sven Johannsen]

Windows Update is certainly capable of doing an entire ROM reflash, saw that in Betas, but that is not what the typical user wants. I would guess they would sort of want their data/personalization kept intact, like the iPhone updates. In defense of MS, Apple has exactly one platform with one version to worry about, and very limited user customization. By one version I mean a 3G with V2 is a 3G with V2. You don't have the Samsung version, the HTC version, the Motorola version the AT&T, Verizon,,sprint, O2, etc. versions.

Even with an entire ROM reflash though, I suppose an option might be to do a user backup via AS/WMDC (not a current feature), update and restore the user data. Unfortunately arranging for the new 'OS' to be backward compatible with all the previous settings, can limit the potential improvements.

So, beyond all the griping and conjecture about upgrades, any rumors about whether this is even possibly going to show up in legitimate venues?

BTW, I haven't even found a Windows Update icon on my Pure, just the AT&T one which doesn't seem to do anything, or if it does, doesn't let you know it did.

Another BTW, the Pure does not have an OK button. It has a Windows (Start) and Back (arrow). It does have a task manager accessible from the on screen OK button, similar to SPBs Pocket Plus. I can activate with a finger, but it is tough to do one handed, as are many of the old UI features.