WM 7 RTM and Office Mobile 7 [Archive]

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Pete Paxton

10-13-2009, 03:00 PM

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.ppcgeeks.com/2009/10/09/breaking-news-wm-7-rtm-and-office-mobile-7-3/' target='_blank'>http://www.ppcgeeks.com/2009/10/09/...ice-mobile-7-3/</a> </div>"Is Windows Mobile 7 right around the corner? It would seem so after Stephen Chapman, owner of Microsoft Kitchen, came across some documents that indicate an updated RTM of April 2010. If this is true, the general population will most likely have to wait until September-October of 2010 to have WM 7 on their phones."<img height="298" src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com//spt/auto/1255394218.usr11642.png" style="border: 1px solid #d2d2bb;" width="417" />Really, Almost a year? That seems so far away especially when we all know Windows Mobile needs a new OS now. And yes I mean 7.0. If it's true that Microsoft doesn't have Windows Mobile 7 out to RTM until April and we don't see it until September or October of 2010, are you going to hold out for a Windows Mobile device or are you going to look into other OS's? Honestly, I think WM 7 is going to be awesome. I just hope they don't wait so long that they lose a huge market share. For such a huge company, I really expected to be dazzled by now. I wonder if Microsoft's dazzle is going to turn into fizzle by next year.

virain

10-13-2009, 05:10 PM

For such a huge company, I really expected to be dazzled by now. I wonder if Microsoft's dazzle is going to turn into fizzle by next year.  
What exactly do you expect from WM? How should it "DAZZLE" you? Do you expect fireworks, peace on earth, or save all the whales and other almost instinct creatures on earth? Following this blog and some others that cover WM I get an impression that most blogers here don't really want WM, they want iPhone, Android, Maemo, or any other trendy OS with a Microsoft logo on it. Some times it's just a hybrid of either all, or some of them. IMHO, WM is WM, that means the most capable OS for smartphones in the market as of today. 6.5 upgrade brought necessary finger friendly action that was missing, but on the other hand took away some things that made Windows unique and useful. From what I understand, you can't create folders to organize your programs that installed on a device anymore, and that's a shame. Now, like with Android, If you need to open some app., you have to fish for it from that program menu, and if you have enough apps installed it make take more time to find what you need! So now, I will find my banking software to some Bubbles game, and skype to sudoki, sex, sync, or whatever else. Not really "user friendly" I would say. Hope it is not true. My point is WM is WM let it be and let it do what it does the best! Not to be some flashy surface to wow teenage girls, but productive platform that can be replacement of my laptop or desktop to some point on the go. And in spite of all the trendy bushing that was going on since iPhone came out it is still the best PRODUCTIVITY mobile platform. Yes it has its pitfalls, but so does iPhone and Android, I know, I have and I use both. Although. I prefer G1 over iPhone, which is pretty much collecting dust in my draw.

doogald

10-13-2009, 06:40 PM

At least in the US, I'm not sure that a year is a disaster. People generally have two year contracts, they try to update their devices every 18-24 months (I know that Verizon allows you to extend your contract with a discount on a new device after 20 months, for example), so WM7 just puts that decision further on down the road. If it truly is good, people whose contracts are eligible for upgrade will do so.

I'm not planning to get another WM phone - I find the thing I'm using so mediocre that I cannot believe that I'll ever get another - but, if I were a WM fan, I'd rather see them take the time to get it right than rush a solution that leaves out features that Microsoft could not add in too short a time, just to have WM7 done sooner.

alese

10-13-2009, 07:10 PM

... 6.5 upgrade brought necessary finger friendly action that was missing, but on the other hand took away some things that made Windows unique and useful. From what I understand, you can't create folders to organize your programs that installed on a device anymore, and that's a shame. Now, like with Android, If you need to open some app., you have to fish for it from that program menu, and if you have enough apps installed it make take more time to find what you need! So now, I will find my banking software to some Bubbles game, and skype to sudoki, sex, sync, or whatever else. Not really "user friendly" I would say. Hope it is not true. My point is WM is WM let it be and let it do what it does the best! Not to be some flashy surface to wow teenage girls, but productive platform that can be replacement of my laptop or desktop to some point on the go. And in spite of all the trendy bushing that was going on since iPhone came out it is still the best PRODUCTIVITY mobile platform. Yes it has its pitfalls, but so does iPhone and Android, I know, I have and I use both. Although. I prefer G1 over iPhone, which is pretty much collecting dust in my draw.

You can do whatever you want with the folders and shorcuts in Start Menu on 6.5, just like you can in all previous WM versions - there is no difference there, the only difference is the lack of Start menu. So organizing your shotcuts is no problem.
As for finger friendy action, the 6.5 is more or less the first step, and the so called 6.5.1 version (the newest builds on XDA-Developers) are much more advanced in this regard.

One thing about the linked article. I doubt that the screenshots on the pictures are "real", but what interests me more is the info on the slide - ability to synchronize files (I assume over the air) and integration with Share Point. At least for me this would be excelent if true and would make my WM device much much more usable.
Oh and the timeline is not really something new, I was under impression that the fall 2010 WM7 devices are more or less confirmed, yes they are at least a year late, but we can't really do much here.

DFurey

10-13-2009, 07:12 PM

From what I understand, you can't create folders to organize your programs that installed on a device anymore, and that's a shame. Now, like with Android, If you need to open some app., you have to fish for it from that program menu, and if you have enough apps installed it make take more time to find what you need!

One of the benefits of using WM is that there are so many developers out there that have created software or modifications that allow the user to do what 'they' want versus the OS. By default you can create shortcuts to any app, the shortcut can be accessed from the start (window) menu (if you want). You can also create folders and add/move shortcuts (using a third-party app) to those folders and then add them to the start (window) menu, if you want.

Gerard

10-13-2009, 07:19 PM

You can do whatever you want with the folders and shorcuts in Start Menu on 6.5, just like you can in all previous WM versions - there is no difference there, the only difference is the lack of Start menu. So organizing your shotcuts is no problem.

Um... not quite. The user is free to create new folders under \Windows\Start Menu\Programs and to move shortcut files to these folders to arrange into categories of programs. But the new menu, launched the same as always by tapping the Start Menu 'Windows' icon, is not alphabetically ordered. Further, un-foldered or 'root' shortcuts can be above, below, or between folders in this display. And the only user options for ordering the view are Move Down and Move To Top. If you wish to have a partular order, it requires a lot of careful planning, first moving your least-favourite shortcuts/folders to the top, then gradually working up the list to at last arrive at your most-favoured links along the top and those below in progressively less-favoured order. I have Settings at the bottom, for instance, as once set up I need this the least. I keep apMemo, my mail app (nPOPuk), TotalCommanderCE, NetFront3.5, Google Maps, Calendar and Communication nearest the top, with folders for Accessories, Media, Communication, Files next, then System, Office, then finally Settings. I use an xdadevelopers-supplied modification to the start menu which changes it from 3 columns to 4, to cram more into the space without scrolling.

alese

10-13-2009, 07:34 PM

Um... not quite. The user is free to create new folders under \Windows\Start Menu\Programs and to move shortcut files to these folders to arrange into categories of programs. But the new menu, launched the same as always by tapping the Start Menu 'Windows' icon, is not alphabetically ordered. Further, un-foldered or 'root' shortcuts can be above, below, or between folders in this display. And the only user options for ordering the view are Move Down and Move To Top. If you wish to have a partular order, it requires a lot of careful planning, first moving your least-favourite shortcuts/folders to the top, then gradually working up the list to at last arrive at your most-favoured links along the top and those below in progressively less-favoured order. I have Settings at the bottom, for instance, as once set up I need this the least. I keep apMemo, my mail app (nPOPuk), TotalCommanderCE, NetFront3.5, Google Maps, Calendar and Communication nearest the top, with folders for Accessories, Media, Communication, Files next, then System, Office, then finally Settings. I use an xdadevelopers-supplied modification to the start menu which changes it from 3 columns to 4, to cram more into the space without scrolling.

Well that's true, but only to an extent. It depends on the WM 6.5 build used. I don't have any device with official WM 6.5 ROM (I'm waiting for HTC to release one for my Touch Pro2), but most of the builds I have tried from XDA-Developers have the capability to move the icons in the start menu to whatever position you want - you simply drag an icon to another one and it moves there.

Gerard

10-13-2009, 08:12 PM

Really? I've only used dsixda's versions of WM6.5, about 20 of them if memory serves. Stopped upgrading at Onyx beta 45, as this version is plenty stable and perfectly refined for my tastes.

But I am rather puzzled by your statement that you can "simply drag an icon to another one and it moves there" - tapping and dragging in the Start Menu of WM6.5 results in the whole icon set sliding up or down. It won't drag sideways, though certain other programs will such as the list view in nPOPuk (somewhat uselessly, but it does anyway), or TotalCommanderCE (again, uselessly, as only vertical dragging does anything meaningful). If I hesitate a bit before dragging, the pop-up appears asking whether to move up or down. That's it. Nothing else possible in this interface. A tap launches a shortcut. A drag moves the whole works as one unit. A tap&hold presents the limited options. Would you mind saying whose build of 6.5 you are using where this dual-drag functionality is offered? And further, could you try to explain how dragging a finger or stylus can both scroll the icons and move them? It seems contradictory to me that the same gesture is able to do both, unless the machine is somehow reading your mind, deciphering your intent as you drag an icon and performing the appropirate function. Some sort of 'special' drag operation?

virain

10-13-2009, 08:16 PM

Well that's true, but only to an extent. It depends on the WM 6.5 build used. I don't have any device with official WM 6.5 ROM (I'm waiting for HTC to release one for my Touch Pro2), but most of the builds I have tried from XDA-Developers have the capability to move the icons in the start menu to whatever position you want - you simply drag an icon to another one and it moves there.

Actualy, HTC released official 6.5 ROM upgrade for TP2, WWE, EU, European carriers as well. T-Mo USA users are screwed...again! :( Here"s the link: http://www.htc.com/uk/supportdownloadlist.aspx?p_id=250&act=sd&cat=2

alese

10-13-2009, 08:35 PM

alese

10-13-2009, 08:41 PM

Actualy, HTC released official 6.5 ROM upgrade for TP2, WWE, EU, European carriers as well. T-Mo USA users are screwed...again! :( Here"s the link: http://www.htc.com/uk/supportdownloadlist.aspx?p_id=250&act=sd&cat=2

Thanks for the link, but this is "only" UK download, it doesn't work for my European TP2 :( . Yes it's funny but if you go to htc.com/Europe there is no WM6.5 upgrade yet...

Gerard

10-13-2009, 08:45 PM

Okay, perhaps I should consider running a newer build then. dsixda 'retired' because the Elfin builds coming out of MS stopped being major releases and started being customizations aimed at particular OEMs. I don't know much about that, but took his word for it. The build of my ROM is from 21815.5.0.50. I'll have to spend a bit of time hunting around newer threads there and see if something relevant for my device comes up. Thanks for explaining. That special tap and drag would certainly make menu setup a lot less painful for new users.

Pete Paxton

10-14-2009, 02:01 AM

Save whales? Peace on earth? No. Not sure where that came from. But other devices from other OS's have dazzled us or at least me and I expect the big MS to do the same. Come on, they used to be the front runners and it seems the past few years they've been playing catch up. I'd like to see MS out in front again. I've seen the videos of the courier tablet and that's dazzling. It's been a while since I've thought "wow that's cool" from a MS phone device.

Also, what you call productive and what I call productive may be two different things. I mean that sincerely. If the current WM devices suit your profession and life, then that's great. But as a school teacher, the iphone is perfect for me. The whole talk about people have an iphone to flash around is old now. I don't flash it to anyone but I do use it to be productive. I have a great calendar, to-do task manager, evernote, splash id, word, excel yada yada yada. But I do understand people might find features in WM that suit their needs better. Great.

JKingGrim

10-14-2009, 04:12 AM

virain, I dont really like the new start menu either. I agree that it is foolish that it is not alphabetically sorted and that folders are not sorted to the top. They could have done a much better job revamping the start menu.

You have named only one thing though that is wrong with 6.5 though. What else did it take away that was unique and useful? IMO they have not changed it enough. The core apps are still ancient. When I connect to a wireless network I feel like I am using windows xp sp0.

Russ Smith

10-14-2009, 01:20 PM

I'm not in the habit of buying a new handset every year so waiting a while for WM 7 doesn't seem such a hardship to me. I can't say I'm not intrigued with some of the new OS offerings, but, every time I take a look at one, the things I'd be giving up really outweigh the things I might potentially gain. iPhone is pretty and tightly integrated by design, but fascistly limiting in so many ways. Android looks promising in some respects but Google seems ADHD-riddled and I worry that they might just abandon Android and switch to Chrome.

Eriq Cook

10-15-2009, 12:02 AM

I'm trying to "hold on". Just ordered a T-Mobile TP2 today and installing the 6.5 update released by HTC (hopefully it works. I could care less about the TMO branded changes). If the TP2 proves to be a lot better than the Wing, then I may be able to wait. Still, that is such a long time to me. If the TP2 doesn't do it, then I'm holding out a couple more months for the new touch screen blackberry with physical keyboard coming in December (confirmed by a T-Mobile rep last week).

I like Windows Mobile because it has the best Exchange support IMO (something I use frequently), and I love the "tap and hold" pop-up menu functionality for everything. No other mobile OS has that.

The lack of devices with touch screen + physical keyboard + good Exchange support has been the only reason I've stayed with Windows Mobile since the new gen of iPhone, Blackerry's & Pre's were released. There's always been something major missing from each platform, and blackberry just may be the first platform to sway me.

I've stayed with Microsoft's mobile platform since the Phillips Nino running Windows CE (!), and very excited for Windows Mobile 7. Microsoft can't afford to mess this up. By October of next year, there will be new updates to existing mobile platforms, so Microsoft can't fall short in any area.

We'll see what happens. I'll try to "get by" with 6.5 for another year. I may fold though :confused:

maxnix

10-21-2009, 10:26 PM

What exactly do you expect from WM? How should it "DAZZLE" you?
I think we can see 1GHz+ processors running on G4 networks with 800x600 (minimum) screens powered by truly intelligent voice command. Think mobile device and professional tool, not proprietary market music player with a cell radio strapped on.

Capacitive touch dispays and finger fookin' your phone will be so last decade, where it belongs now. More finger grease on your displays, anyone?

Gerard

10-21-2009, 11:55 PM

On a lit display, fingerprints (and face prints) are rarely an issue in terms of viewability. A quick rub on a shirt sleeve clears up anything one might worry about, but really the only time I notice fingerprints on my screen is when the thing is turned off. Not exactly worrisome then... as it's, like, off. As in not being used. Even when I'm in the workshop and my hands are covered in ebony dust (oily, black, gets on everything) I don't see any problem on my touchscreen WM phone. So it's kind of chuckle-worthy whenever I see this sort of ranting about fingerprints being a problem, whether it's in PPC-specific forums (HUH? We've been poking PPC screens for almost a decade!) or on Slashdot or anywhere else.

A non-touchscreen, now that's a problem. Have to make sure 100% of your software is button-operable down to the last function, and as one who has tested a LOT of software I can assure you that this is a problem for developers. Then you have to remember which button does what in all programs, as this is not too obvious sometimes. With a finger or a stylus it's easy to poke an icon, not having to think about which hardware button might launch that same function. While I agree that for some having anything at all contaminating their phone screens is a horrible possibility, the obsessive-compulsive camp is rather a small part of the overall market. And ease of use is more than enough justification for the rest of us (those who want ease of use anyway) to have touchscreens.