Gizmodo and Crunchgear Dump on Windows Mobile 6.5

[Jason Dunn]

<p><em>"I really didn't want to beat up on WinMo here, because at this point it just feels tired. But man, come on Microsoft, you're giving me no choice. Windows Mobile 6.5 isn't just a letdown-it barely seems done...It's a superficial update, and not a very thorough one. It's an interim product, and a vain attempt to hold onto the thinning ranks people who still choose Windows Mobile despite not being somehow tethered to it until the tardy Windows Mobile 7 comes out, whenever that may be. And it won't work." -<a href="http://gizmodo.com/5374876/windows-mobile-65-review-theres-no-excuse-for-this" target="_blank">Gizmodo Article</a></em></p><p><em>"Take a Buick Lasabre. No, no, not a cool one from the late 1950s. Take one from the early 90's, like the ones they use on cop shows. Now, strap a spoiler on it. The Lasabre is Windows Mobile. The Spoiler is all of the stuff 6.5 brings." - <a href="http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2009/10/06/windows-mobile-6-5-review-it-still-sucks/" target="_blank">Crunchgear Article</a></em></p><p><img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/600/ppct/auto/1254853134.usr1.jpg" style="border: 1px solid #d2d2bb;" /></p><p>I'd love to refute, or at least offer a different opinion, on what <a href="http://gizmodo.com/5374876/windows-mobile-65-review-theres-no-excuse-for-this" target="_blank">Gizmodo</a> and <a href="http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2009/10/06/windows-mobile-6-5-review-it-still-sucks/" target="_blank">Crunchgear</a> have to say about Windows Mobile 6.5, but I can't. Why is that, you might ask? Because I haven't used Windows Mobile 6.5 on a device, in person. It's not within my ethical framework to use the leaked 6.5 XDA Developer ROM images, so I've spent the past 8+ months trying everything I can think of to get my hands on a Windows Mobile 6.5 beta device through legitimate means. As a 12-year Windows Mobile MVP, as a member of Mobius, as press, as a contract technology writer for Microsoft, etc. Each and every time, I've failed to get my hands on the operating system I'm supposed to be an "expert" on. I've learned more about Windows Mobile 6.5 from YouTube videos created by people using pirated software than from any of the supposed "insider" connections I have. You can imagine how completely ridiculous that makes me feel.</p><p>I'm not going to point fingers here, but suffice it to say that it's never been so hard to be an Windows Mobile enthusiast as it is right now. The people who care about connecting with enthusiasts like myself are gone, replaced by people who only look at Alexa rankings and cater to the "big blogs". And that's why you're not seeing any original Windows Mobile 6.5 content on this site: because no one would give me access to what I needed to create it. Is that a harsh reality check or what?</p>

[nmcclana]

I respect your scruples and MSFT's inability to support more than a few media outlets is pretty disappointing.

After reading the reviews from the top blogs, I suspect it's a pretty down day at for the Windows Phone team.

I knew what to expect, but it at the end of the day, other platforms are innovating while WM is stuck in 2004. The market will vote. My contract won't expire until around the time WM7 is supposed to come out, but I have to be honest - the Pre looks pretty inviting.

[ucfgrad93]

Sorry to hear that you are being treated like crap Jason. I was wondering why you didn't have any news posted about all of the events of today. Thanks for the explanation.

[efjay]

Atrocious treatment Jason and as far as MS catering to the "big blogs", I wonder if they feel they made a good investment.

Sad thing is, the leaked builds are better than the version officially released today and one wonders why MS didnt push those changes through faster. Overall though, if I was a member of the WM team I would be hanging my head in shame and in all honesty, they should all be sacked as they are obviously not doing what they are being paid for.

I can imagine the response from MS to today's release: keep a low profile and make no mention of WM for a period of time, when questioned in an interview spout the company line (part of our overall strategy), wait another year and release another lackluster upgrade with pomp and ceremony while the industry looks briefly then dismisses them. Similar to the announcement of PIE6 which is only now beginning to surface on devices and is immediately discounted in favour of Opera Mobile.

I would dearly love to see all news sites, blogs, forums have a media blackout on anything WM for 1 day to send a message to MS on how disappointing MS has been in the mobile space. It seems something drastic has to be done to get MS to get their act together and address WM's shortcomings.

[Clarkezone]

As an MS employee I'm saddened to read this, Jason.

[starstreak]

Really? I mean really? It's going from 6 to 6.5. It's not supposed to be a big leap, but from what I've seen, many things has been cleaned up from a old operating system that was dated. WM7 is supposed to be the big leap.
What kind of big leap did you think it would be? I tell you what, if MS copied what made apple innovating compaired to the windows mobile. Nobody would say "Yay! Awsome! Easy to use!" First thing everybody would say. Oh wow. They copied Apple. This still feels like a MS OS, but yet updated to use more finger uses and less stylus use. And you know what? I'm one of the few people who don't mind using a stylus. Using a finger is fine. But you just can't get the accuracy of a stylus. Once MS comes out with a good in between those two, I would be happy. The stylus was born mainly because we wanted touch screen, yet wasn't willing to pay for a 4inch screen. When all the pda/phones started coming out, it was far too exspensive to have a large screen, so we needed the stylus to point and peck at things. Now things are different.

And lastly, it's MS. They give the consumer a CHOICE of what type of phone you want. So of course they have to make a BIG os to handle whatever processor/screen/soundchip etc a company desides to put into their phone. Apple on the other hand, still has stuff they make so they know what hardware to program for.

[Phillip Dyson]

Wow Jason,
I was reading the post thinking that I was going to get the end and have you close out with something like "I Jason Dunn hearby discontinue ...":eek:

It does seem to be a pour treatment of their own network. I mean why even have the MVP prorgram? They couldn't have rotated the devices. Perhaps they thought it would be easier to contain leaks? Either way if you're supposed to be on the inside, then they should give you access.

I admit I am often forced to use other sites for timely news, but I always comeback here to participate in the community.


Really? I mean really? It's going from 6 to 6.5. It's not supposed to be a big leap,

If you take WM in a vacuum then I think what you're saying is true. But compared to other offerings, (and we're really talking about the iPhone, Android and WebOS) Windows Mobile is at the bottom of the list perception wise.

Although I don't think I've ever seen a comparison of RIM OS with WM Standard. I mean really... why is RIM still in the top echelon of mobile devices?

Plus Microsoft themselves made a big deal about this release. Press releases, conference announcements, ODM partner reaffirmations. You would think they were releasing an overhaul.

[starstreak]

RIM like blackberry? Again, it does what its supposed to. People I know use it because they need the communication it handles. Not because they love it. Like having a Nextel for the PTT.

And MS HAD to make a big deal about this. They needed to let people about choices. Too many people know about the iPhone. MS just needed to get the info out. If WM7 is still about 6-12months away, that's way too much time for Apple to release another phone and less people using a WM device.


Although I don't think I've ever seen a comparison of RIM OS with WM Standard. I mean really... why is RIM still in the top echelon of mobile devices?

Plus Microsoft themselves made a big deal about this release. Press releases, conference announcements, ODM partner reaffirmations. You would think they were releasing an overhaul.

[alese]

WM 6.5 is not all bad. Yes it's "just" some interface tweaking, but I have to say that I do like the improvements, it's not great not even close to iPhone or Pre UI, but with addition stuff from HTC it looks and feels just fine and is quite usable. And I'll be quite happy when 6.5 upgrade is available for my Touch Pro 2. That's one thing.

But on another side it's just pathetic that the biggest and most successful software company in the world is not capable of producing a really compelling mobile OS, especially considering that they had 2.5+ years since the iPhone and all they managed to produce in that time is WM 6.5. If you look at it this way, Microsoft looks really really sad compared to competition. I mean even if they would start from nothing in July 2007 they should have produced something better than a new today screen, a new unlock screen, a different look of application launcher and a bad port of an old desktop browser. But they didn't start from nothing they already had an OS (windows CE) and all they needed was to create a usable, good looking UI with some good applications. One can only think that either WM team is completely incompetent or they only have a one or two developers doing everything. It really shows how MS didn't (still doesn't?) care about mobile OS and how they were caught with "their pants down" and then continued to ignore the competition.

I think all this bashing is good. I hope they finally realize that they need to do something good and fast, or on the other hand they can drop the whole mobile OS and become a classic case of "how a company shoot itself in the foot by not innovating and ignoring the competition", together with Palm.

As for Jason - that's just stupid, to leave someone like him and consequently all the community behind the PPC Thoughts "out of the loop" is really really dumb. Jason, I don't know about you, but, but since you obviously don't owe anything to MS the way they treated you, you could flash one of the newest builds of Wm 6.5.1 from XDA-Developers - the new new UI features look nice ;-) I for one am pretty convinced that all the "leaks" of new ROM builds there are intentional, either directly by Microsoft or by HTC but with Microsoft's silent OK. After all this is probably the best beta testing community in the world.

[Stinger]

I stopped listening to anything that Gizmodo had to say a long time ago. It's easily the worst tech blog.

[jeisner]

The problem with 6.5 to me is the marketplace

- Developers who have gotten on early are saying that MS don't give them the liveid of buyers so they can't send keys out themselves to buyers (if they used product key protection).
- MS preferred method to protect the software, deleting the CAB file of an app after install has already been cracked and is so easy to bypass it is silly.
- It is region based but worse than DVD or Blueray. You are automatically set to your own region as a buyer and as a seller you have to submit seperately to each region (each submission is charged seperate to the yearly fee).
- Seperate regions just for english so far include US, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, Singapore and Ireland.
- Support for developers is so slow it is just sad.
- I have seen a number of reports of apps (including some well known software) being rejected with the reason response being left blank, each one comes off the 5 submissions allowed for the original US$99 fee (each submission after that is US$99).

Very little seems to be happening on the MSDN forum so maybe as this becomes more public someone at MS will wake up.. It just seems to me reading all the problems other people are having and the things I have experienced that they are charging us a 12 month subscription to sign up to a store that is well and truely still in a beta state even now..

[The Yaz]

Unfortunately, 6.5 is the worst thing that could have happened to my company. Our IT group was finally pressured into testing iPhones in the corporate work environment, but they insisted on purchasing phones with 6.5 at the same time to do a current comparison.

With the reviews so far, I'm afraid iPhone is going to kill the HTC phones and I'm going to be surrounded by iPhones newbies who will ask me to help them when they screw up the outlook sync "because they only know how to connect it to their Macs at home..." :(

Steve

[LordFuzzy]

The problem with 6.5 to me is the marketplace

- Developers who have gotten on early are saying that MS don't give them the liveid of buyers so they can't send keys out themselves to buyers (if they used product key protection).
- MS preferred method to protect the software, deleting the CAB file of an app after install has already been cracked and is so easy to bypass it is silly.
- It is region based but worse than DVD or Blueray. You are automatically set to your own region as a buyer and as a seller you have to submit seperately to each region (each submission is charged seperate to the yearly fee).
- Seperate regions just for english so far include US, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, Singapore and Ireland.
- Support for developers is so slow it is just sad.
- I have seen a number of reports of apps (including some well known software) being rejected with the reason response being left blank, each one comes off the 5 submissions allowed for the original US$99 fee (each submission after that is US$99).

Very little seems to be happening on the MSDN forum so maybe as this becomes more public someone at MS will wake up.. It just seems to me reading all the problems other people are having and the things I have experienced that they are charging us a 12 month subscription to sign up to a store that is well and truely still in a beta state even now..


As a WM software developer I am beyond disappointed in the MarketPlace. I was really hoping MS would of taken some of the queues from AppStore on this one. I think NO one would have cared if they copied their exact program. It works let’s be honest, minor tweaks maybe. Our company has already decided that we will not be selling any of our software on the Market Place. The restrictions are way too ridiculous and like 'jeisner' said the support response has not only been slow but in some cases none existent. I didn't even know about the Region aspect of it until 'jeisner' posted that, told the boss and he said "Now its offical. We are not going to use the Market Place." He's not a happy camper right now. Personally there are several programs that I have written that I want to give away for FREE but I won’t if I have to pay $99 to be able to do it. Updates are KEY and if you have to pay to put your update on the site too, than I am just going to keep posting them on my own website and hope people come across them.

I've used several ROM's cooked up by the great Chefs over at XDA. Yes there are bugs and yes they do fix them. And what do you know there is a great HELP community there too. Microsoft you should not only look at XDA for Help but you should embrace the community that is keeping your product alive. I could name 5 Chefs on XDA that you should bring on board that would change the WM stigma. I don’t like kicking people out on the street but this has been going on far too long. Time to clean house at the Mobile OS Team. Just my opinion…

[Rob Alexander]

As a user, I'm not the slightest bit interested in Marketplace. I don't want to buy my software in a manner that gives the seller the ability to change my device without my permission. The current system is fine. I buy a product and you send me a product key. I save the installation file and key and can always reinstall the product after a hard reset or on my next device. Even if you go out of business, I have the software I paid for.

Under this new system, you want to delete the .cab after the install? No thanks. A couple of software companies are having a legal battle and you're going to just come in and uninstall my software? No thanks.

When are consumers going to learn that, when you buy something that requires a company's intervention to use (e.g. DRM), you will eventually lose the product you bought. What are you going to do about your hundreds of dollars of WM software in two years when MS decides that this Marketplace idea isn't really working for them and shuts down the system? You're going to lose your money, that's what.

If I wanted a big corportation to have total control of my device, I'd get an iPhone.

[Phillip Dyson]

RIM like blackberry? Again, it does what its supposed to. People I know use it because they need the communication it handles. Not because they love it. Like having a Nextel for the PTT.


I suppose your argument would be true if Blackberry's were only used by corporate types and constuction workers. There is nothing a blackberry can do that you can't find on other platforms. Actually I might even say every platform. Yet there are plenty of consumers that buy and use blackberry devices.

And Windows Mobile does do what its supposed to do. Very few people complain about its capablities. Just is interface.

I've heard many a popular site podcast (read: Engadget) complain about the antiquated apps and interface on blackberrys but they don't fail to list them in the mobile space while Windows mobile is hardly mentioned.

[jeisner]

I buy a product and you send me a product key. I save the installation file and key and can always reinstall the product after a hard reset or on my next device. Even if you go out of business, I have the software I paid for.

Honestly, as a developer and along with almost all the developers I am talking to on the MSDN forums we wanted the same thing as you.. To me the situation is far worse with microsoft for us too than it is with my preferred store (mobihand)..

[Rob Alexander]

I love Mobihand. I use the version of it via the ThoughtsMedia sites and I enjoy that it keeps track of versions for me, tells me when a new version comes out, handles upgrade pricing, etc. I can choose to download the software again from the store if I want to, but I only do that when there's a version change. Another good thing is that they don't have the ability to connect to my device remotely and uninstall my software. It does everything I want in a store and nothing that I don't want.

[ARW]

The only thing worse than WinMo right now is Apple's offering. While I'm still quite happy with my Blackjack II the browsing experience on the iPhone has me wondering if it's time for some sort of a change for me. Blackberry nah. Android, seems promising but not yet there. Guess I'll stick with WinMo (or whatever I'm supposed to call it now) and hope that Microsoft can pull their collective head out of their arse.

Just curious if you're going to diversify Jason. Android Thoughts?

[nosaturn]

I'm sorry for you Jason. I remember you from your early days and even got to help you and some of the other VIPs out a few times when I worked in Windows Mobile support way back when. Everything turned ugly for Wndows Mobile/PocketPC/Windows Phone way back with ActiveSync 3.5 (or was it 4) when they pulled WiFi sync out. The product groups stopped listening to the VIP's and stopped listening to us in dev support and kept telling everybody it's all about he enterprise. If you ask me, the last "good" phone OS they built was the SmartPhone stuff because they actually got the experience pretty good for non-touch and non-stylus phones. Heck, even my friends that are still @ MS in the mobile world tell me it's regressed.

I left in early '05 and have not seen much progression since. I remember walking the halls and seeing some of the concept UI and how exciting it was to finally see worthy devices produced (the Typhon and some of the following devices had good form factors). I also remember telling every one, "oh, my phone has been able to do that" for years when people showed me their iphone or blackberry.... but each time I did, i started to feel more and more lame because it became an excuse. I had to install this obscure app to play videos. I could play music, but it took 10 buttons or taps to find a new song to play... on and on until I was an apologist and not an evangelist.

I moved to another platform a year ago, and feel like there is actual platform development and support. I'm excited about it again and know it can actually DO the lame things i tried to make Windows Mobile do.

My heart goes out to you Jason, but I think the days of yore are dead. Windows Mobile or Windows Phone is the new dead Palm. Windows Phone 7 _might_ be the shiznit, but I am not hopeful....

[jeisner]

telling everybody it's all about he enterprise.

Sad thing is in my experience a lot of those enterprise clients are moving to iphone, all our managers are given iphones now.. We also have thousands of Motorola rugged PPC units in the hands of staff, now what happens with motorola dumping windows mobile?

[heatlesssun]

I think that the demise of Windows phones is GREATLY exaggerated and to be honest Microsoft’s app store isn’t really needed though I can understand wanting Microsoft’s visibility as a developer. If you look at the reviews of the HTC Touch Pro 2 on Verizon’s site the reviews are stellar.

I just got a Verizon HTC Touch Pro 2 three weeks ago. If you really think that an iPhone beats this thing then I have to say that there would some debate about that.

Bottom line, the current version of Windows CE is old, Microsoft is rewriting it and every mobile device in our hands right now is crap compared to what’s coming. The mobile story is just BEGNING!

But Windows Phones RIGHT NOW do everything I need and pretty much all that I want. Sure it could be nicer but is there anything holding someone back from getting the job done on these devices. And really reading on an iPhone compared to a Touch Pro 2? LOL!!! Last time I checked there STILL isn’t an app for eyesight but I guess that’s next year!


As my sign of support I've purchased about $50 of apps from the app store!

I love my 6.1 Touch Pro 2. 6.5 should be a little nicer. I just am not needing are wanting more anymore. 200 reviews on Verizon are saying the same thing.

[karen]

Haven't you read those statements in newspapers about films that had no review copies available prior to the street date?

Those are films so bad that the studio is counting on the clueless first weekend viewers to show up, buy tix, then not be able to get the word out to friends how bad the flick is until Monday. That way studios can at least get an opening weekend's worth of revenue.

The MS Mobile team seems to be saying that they can't let the clued in reviewers see anything early.

BTW, twitter, Facebook, etc. have pretty much killed any advantage of "no review copies" strategy. Perhaps pirated and leaked software has done that for the software world.

[Perry Reed]

Jason, that stinks that you haven't been able to get your hands on an official version of WM6.5. Microsoft really blew it there.

I've been one of the ones running the XDA-Developers cooked ROMs and I have to say, for a facelift, WM6.5 is pretty decent. Yes, it is barely more than skin deep, but it is an improvement.

The really sad part is that 6.5 wasn't released two years ago! What has MS been doing all of this time?? We should all be running WM 7 right now, looking forward to the imminent release of 8.0, which would push the limits of what can be done on a mobile platform, leaving iPhone and BB and the others in the dust.

Instead, we're hanging on to the facelift on a dinosaur with WM 7, which will supposedly catch up with the others (but probably not surpass them in any meaningful way) promised for *maybe* sometime next year, or more likely the year after.

Microsoft has really screwed the pooch on WM. Very disappointing.

[jason mazzon]

The question is: Do these reviewers or anything but Microsoft fanatics do anything other than thumb-icons-shuffling and email? The rage today is the back and forth shuffling of visual gunk and the novelty of the new cell phone oses. Talking of phone oses, the only one that looks and feels like an os is Windows Mobile. The others look and feel more like simple cell phone interfaces. Windows Mobile users will know what I mean; those who never used or will use it will never care for the facts. Windows Mobile is not perfect but it feels old and it is not pretty and this alone drives those who chase novelty crazy. It puts the emphasis on productivity first and entertainment second. Now, ask any of those reviewers what Windows Mobile does not do and does not do well and their biggest gripe is that it uses a stylus. No matter how big the icons are made for our thumbs, we will still need a stylus to edit an email Excel or Word attachment. Try doing that with your thumb. So, I don’t think that resistive screen technology is going away. Cell phone makers see a bigger future for resistive technology a technology that will only get better and even more precise. That is why they are still putting out phones with this technology. There is more to productivity than easily shuffling icons. The other big point that Windows Mobile haters (it is just cool to hate anything Microsoft) don’t realize is that it is the only interface that allows you to do most of what modern cell phones technology offers.
Microsoft deserves the situation that it finds itself in. It is a company that follows trends it does not create them or innovates. It had to turn on a dime with the introduction of the GUI, the multimedia PC, the internet revolution, the mobile phone popularity surge, etc. You would think that a large company with so many resources would have learned by now that you cannot fall asleep on your laurels.