Reactions of a Zune Fan to the September 2009 iPod Announcements [Archive]

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Jason Dunn

09-09-2009, 08:33 PM

<img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/600/zt/auto/1252518756.usr1.jpg" style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #d2d2bb 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #d2d2bb 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #d2d2bb 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #d2d2bb 1px solid" />Because I'm sitting here watching the <a href="http://live.gdgt.com/2009/09/09/live-apple-its-only-rock-and-roll-event-coverage/" target="_blank">superb gdgt coverage of the Apple iPod event</a>, I figured I might as well multi-task and jot down some point form reactions and thoughts on what I'm reading. It's important to understand what "the other guys" are up to - that's the main reason why I bought an iPod Touch earlier this year; I wanted to understand how the App Store worked, to see how good the browser was, and to get experience using the on-screen keyboard. Here are my reactions to today's Apple event, in chronological order:<ul><li>Good to hear Steve Jobs is healthy - organ donation is so important. I've signed my organs away if something happens to me, and you should too. If you're dead, they won't do you any more good, so why not share?</li><li>1.8 billion applications downloaded - that's a huge, impressive number. Apps matter. Microsoft has always said that software matters, but they've historically done a poor job of showing that on Windows Mobile and the Zune. They're finally getting rolling with a Windows Mobile app store, but apps on the Zune are still a bit of a question mark. Sure, we've had a couple games since the last generation units, but no cohesive plan on Microsoft's part to roll out a Zune games store, or to sync up with what the Xbox guys are doing.</li><li>iTunes is in 23 countries. The Zune Marketplace is in one. Microsoft's US-centric approach with the Zune is maddening...I thought there was some light at the end of the tunnel when they launched the Zune in Canada last year, but we never got the Zune Marketplace here, and now the devices being sold here are being killed off. "Disaster" is a good word for how well the Zune launch went in Canada. Between the Zune HD being US-only at launch, and all of the IP-based geographic blocking madness that the Zune software and Web site does, it's like the Zune team is doing everything they can to alienate everyone in the world outside the US. More after the break. <MORE /> </li><li>The ability to sync music/videos from one PC to another is neat, but Apple is still focused on a peer to peer system and is ignoring users who want to centralize their media content (NAS drive, Windows Home Server, etc.). I wonder if iTunes 9 will finally monitor music folders?</li><li>The new iTunes store design is a rip-off the Zune Marketplace. That's OK though, it's the right way to go. You do the right thing for your customers, regardless of whether or not someone else has done it first. I wish Apple zealots would keep that in mind.</li><li>The iTunes LP concept is really interesting - I wonder how it will be "packaged". Will you get all the rich content on your iPod? I've always thought there was a great opportunity for the Zune to display more of the ID3 tag info, specifically the Comment and Lyrics field. Talk about low-hanging fruit! Sadly no one on the Zune team seemed to agree enough to make it into the product.</li><li>The iPod Touch 8 GB at $199 presents a real problem for the Zune, because the Zune team thought that killing off their two current form factors was a smart move. Now the cheapest Zune is $219.00. Sure, it's only $20 more than the 8 GB Touch, but the $199 price point is a powerful psychological force (as Apple pointed out). The good news here is that by eliminating the 16 GB iPod Touch, Apple is forcing people to make a $100 price jump, and at retail that's a huge jump. 16 GB is enough storage for a lot of people, so the Zune HD has an opportunity to steal sales from people who want more than 8 GB, but aren't willing to spend $299.</li><li>Munch. Munch. Munch. That's the sound of me eating my keyboard after I <a href="http://mobilitysite.com/2009/09/new-ipod-prices-for-americans-only/#comment-16264272" target="_blank">made this comment over at mobility site</a> stating that there's no way Apple could get a 64 GB iPod Touch down to the $399 price point. I'm really surprised that Apple can do a 64 GB iPod Touch for $399, but I guess with their massive purchasing power on Flash memory they can do what no one else can do. They must have used thumbscrews on the Flash memory guys to get the pricing to make that happen! Plus, let's not forget that the iPod Touch didn't get the camera abilities everyone thought it would.</li><li>So other than the iPod Touch getting cheaper (8 GB @ $199), and it getting bigger (64 GB), it really brings nothing new to the table. Sure, the 32 GB and 64 GB versions are faster (welcome to the world of platform fragmentation Apple!), but still no microphone, no camera, same screen resolution, no HD anything? The Zune HD wipes iPod Touch off the map in terms of hardware features and performance. That's good news!</li><li>Apple kept the iPod Classic in the line-up for people with big music collections, increasing the storage to 160 GB. At $250, there's a lot of value for the storage dollar there. The Zune team has decided this is market they don't care about going after, which I think is a shame - when you're the underdog, can you afford to alienate music lovers with big music collections? The Zune has always been about music and entertainment more than the do-everything-PDA that the iPod Touch has become, yet by only offering Flash-based models of the Zune HD, only people with small music collections need apply. I can't help but think that's a bad move.</li><li>The Shuffle continues to be a bizarre little device with its lack of controls, but it's small, cheap, and perfect for going to the gym with, jogging, going to the beach, etc. You care a lot less about a $59 MP3 player than a $399 MP3 player. I think it's a huge mistake for the Zune team to drop the small form-factor Zune. If I ever manage to convince my brain to take me back to the gym again, I'm not going to strap my expensive, 32 GB Zune HD to my arm. I'm going to bring a cheap SanDisk Sansa Clip, a device that's a pain to sync music onto. I'd much rather be using a really small, Flash-based Zune (even if it didn't have a screen).</li><li>The camera on the iPod Nano is kind of neat, but HD is all the rage now - so is VGA video really going to be that useful? I guess it's better than nothing - the best camera you have is the one you have with you when you need to take a picture - but I was expecting 720p, and for it to be in the iPod Touch. A camera + microphone + apps = magic for developers. Apple wants to keep their developers from having too much fun though, and that's an opportunity for Microsoft. Add to the mix a voice recorder and FM radio, and the Nano is more of multi-purpose device that people will find useful. More than once I've wished for a voice recorder on my Zune - there are just times when you need to record something, and I don't own a dedicated voice recorder. Interesting to see FM radio being included there after years of Apple scoffing at the idea, laughing all the way to the bank as they made fat royalties off the third party companies selling FM radio adaptors worth half as much as the device in the first place. I'll be interested to see if any of the Apple fanboys who mocked the FM radio on the Zune start using the FM radio on the iPod Nano for any reason. It can be more useful than you think...</li></ul>So there are my thoughts on the Apple announcements today. What are yours?Jason Dunn owns and operates <a href="http://www.thoughtsmedia.com/" target="_blank">Thoughts Media Inc.</a>, a company dedicated to creating the best in online communities. He enjoys <a href="http://photos.jasondunn.com/" target="_blank">photography</a>, mobile devices, <a href="http://www.jasondunn.com/" target="_blank">blogging</a>, digital media content creation/editing, and pretty much all technology. He lives in Calgary, Alberta, Canada with his lovely wife, and his sometimes obedient dog. He's surprised how useful he finds his iPod Touch.<img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com//ppct/auto/1240336793.usr1.gif" />Do you enjoy using new hardware, software and accessories, then sharing your experience with others? Then join us on the <a href="http://www.thoughtsmedia.com/reviewteam.php" target="_blank">Thoughts Media Review Team</a>! We're looking for individuals who find it fun to test new gear and give their honest opinions about the experience. It's a volunteer role with some great perks. Interested? <a href="http://www.thoughtsmedia.com/reviewteam.php" target="_blank">Then click here for more information.</a><img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com//ppct/auto/1240336793.usr1.gif" />

nook

09-09-2009, 09:12 PM

The whole 1.5million apps really isn't that big of a statement, being as only a handfull of those apps are worth a crap. I mean really, how many fart/burp apps do you need? They also missed the mark by not putting a camera on the Touch, BIG mistake IMO. Todays Apple event was a big ole YAWN. Even the fanboys seem fairly disappointed.

SoundMix

09-09-2009, 09:27 PM

Nice write up!

How good is the new Ipod software? Early reports are that it is much improved. If Apple can make it as good as the Zune software, coupled with their new hardware...I'd say Zune has a huge problem.

The 160GB Ipod is going to be a major problem for Zune. It even offers more space than the now defunct 120GB Zune.

If Zune fails to counter these moves...I hope Cowon, Iriver, or Creative does something. Anything but IPOD!

Paul

ptyork

09-09-2009, 09:29 PM

Microsoft should put a camera at the TOP of their device so that users don't take pictures of their index fingers. Better yet, one that takes photos in addition to videos. Those are easy wins for Microsoft!! :)

Seriously, there's no point in a product like this that is generally held vertically to have a camera placed there. I also don't personally think that a camera on a PMP is all that necessary. A phone, yes. You always have that with you. A PMP? Just "nice to have"...maybe. If you look at the demos, it really appears to be a gimmick. Look at the video effects that must be pre-selected prior to recording and are permanently recorded onto the original video. Dumb. Obviously meant for teenagers--who'll already have phones, so???

LP? Again, gimmicky to me. I wonder if you can add your own content? Also, will the extras be DRM'ed. Otherwise, they'll be available within minutes on the net.

iPod touch, definitely a disappointment. In fact, the whole show would have to be labeled as such. Good to see Steve "vertical," but otherwise a waste of 50 F5-presses on a live blog.

doogald

09-09-2009, 09:56 PM

I have the iPod Radio Remote, which adds an FM radio to the iPod Nano and fat iPod, as well as the square shuffle like remote control. I haven't used it in years. I listen to FM radio when I am in the car, almost always NPR (and it frustrates me to no end when my attention wanders and I want to rewind a few seconds - podcasts of those shows are so much more convenient!) Occasionally I listen to music stations, like when the kids are in the car, and the ads frustrate me. So it goes; we're all different, I guess.

I use Nike+; of course, after I buy the 4Gm the 5G Nano adds Nike+ sensor built in- which also means that it adds a Bluetooth radio. Early prediction for September 2010 - the 6G Nano adds BT stereo headset support.

As for the video camera, I'd never use it, but I know that my son and his friends are making videos that they upload to YouTube all of the time, sometimes using the iSight on his Mac. It should be popular with that group. Of course, why they didn't add this to the Touch I don't understand . . . probably could not get the components for it at a price that would be profitable enough at the price levels the Touch is at.

I'm thinking that Apple is not all that impressed with HD content on a handheld device. My guess is that a vast, vast supermajority of video content is watched on the display of a device like this, not docked with a special dock connector to a TV (with no remote control.) Cool that Zune HD adds this, but my guess is that Apple loses very few customers to that particular feature. Over 20 million iPod Touches sold - another guess is that this device is so successful that Apple felt it didn't need to add much more to it (or, as I said earlier, the memory bump at the same price precluded adding more features for now.) If the Zune HD takes off, they can always update the device later on.

doogald

09-09-2009, 10:03 PM

Sorry to quote myself, but...

I have the iPod Radio Remote, which adds an FM radio to the iPod Nano and fat iPod, as well as the square shuffle like remote control. I haven't used it in years. I listen to FM radio when I am in the car, almost always NPR (and it frustrates me to no end when my attention wanders and I want to rewind a few seconds - podcasts of those shows are so much more convenient!) Occasionally I listen to music stations, like when the kids are in the car, and the ads frustrate me. So it goes; we're all different, I guess.

Well, the Nano has FM radio pausing and 15 minute rewind, so maybe I would use it ...

I use Nike+; of course, after I buy the 4Gm the 5G Nano adds Nike+ sensor built in- which also means that it adds a Bluetooth radio. Early prediction for September 2010 - the 6G Nano adds BT stereo headset support.

Oops, I got that very wrong. Built in pedometer, not Nike+. Sorry about that.

paschott

09-09-2009, 10:14 PM

I have to agree with the disappointment w/ Zune on the large storage capacity and the tag editing. Maybe the editing of tags will be better in the upcoming software release, but it doesn't sound that way. I'm disappointed about the storage capacity, but mostly because I don't want to swap songs in and out of my collection to fit on the device. That's just not a good experience.

Still, not planning to switch over to an iPod anytime soon - I just don't see the value for the money in most areas. Even if I weren't posting here, I'd probably be considering something like a Sansa Fuze w/ its ability to use memory cards.

Ron Hostetter

09-09-2009, 10:16 PM

Well, the Nano has FM radio pausing and 15 minute rewind, so maybe I would use it ...

I hadn't heard that. That would be a nice feature for Zune to add...

brianchris

09-09-2009, 11:05 PM

My biggest disapointment? That iTunes 9 isn't officially compatible with Windows 7. I know eventually it will be, but I thought they were going to introduce that official compatability with 9.0.

Jason Dunn

09-09-2009, 11:13 PM

The whole 1.5million apps really isn't that big of a statement, being as only a handfull of those apps are worth a crap.

Are you referring to the 1.8 billion apps downloaded? There are 75,000 applications in their catalog right now. Not 1.5 million, but a healthy number. :) As for the quality of the apps, and I can't believe I'm defending Apple here, but it's not all fart apps. :D There are some really great apps in there - sure, lots of crappy apps, but when I can pick up my iPod Touch and in 30 seconds have bought and downloaded an app for tracking stuff with my new baby boy, that's impressive. The App Store is no joke.

They also missed the mark by not putting a camera on the Touch, BIG mistake IMO.

Agreed - but if you put a camera and a microphone on the iPod Touch, it's going to be turned into a VOIP/Webcam device, and I think Apple is afraid it will hurt iPhone sales.

Jason Dunn

09-09-2009, 11:19 PM

How good is the new Ipod software? Early reports are that it is much improved. If Apple can make it as good as the Zune software, coupled with their new hardware...I'd say Zune has a huge problem.

It's better, but it's still not as fast, fluid, or pretty as the Zune software. Much-improved UI, that's for sure. Let's not forgot though that the Zune 4.0 software is coming soon...

The 160GB Ipod is going to be a major problem for Zune. It even offers more space than the now defunct 120GB Zune.

I don't know what the numbers are, but given the way Apple ignores the Classic (hell, even the name tells you that...) I don't think they're big sellers. It seems like Apple is keeping it around to keep some people happy, but are there a lot of those people? I'm not so sure...

Jason Dunn

09-09-2009, 11:28 PM

Microsoft should put a camera at the TOP of their device so that users don't take pictures of their index fingers. Better yet, one that takes photos in addition to videos. Those are easy wins for Microsoft!!

Agreed - the placement of the camera is kind of insane...unless it's designed to take pictures when the iPod is placed horizontally. There's a slew of video coming out now from people with iPhones held vertically... :rolleyes:

Macguy59

09-09-2009, 11:34 PM

Agreed - but if you put a camera and a microphone on the iPod Touch, it's going to be turned into a VOIP/Webcam device, and I think Apple is afraid it will hurt iPhone sales.

Actually if Apple were really afraid of that, they would not have included WiFi. VOIP is already possible (jailbroken) on the 'Touches. I expect Apple to add video to them in the near future. I agree that the event was a snoozer but I'm really surprised that Jobs used it to make his first public appearance. I would have thought he waits until the tablet is announced but perhaps the board felt it necessary. The iTunes store makeover is not an extreme one. I've seen screenshots of the Zune Marketplace but I'm not making the connection you are ?

Jason Dunn

09-09-2009, 11:40 PM

Jason Dunn

09-09-2009, 11:41 PM

My biggest disapointment? That iTunes 9 isn't officially compatible with Windows 7. I know eventually it will be, but I thought they were going to introduce that official compatability with 9.0.

The Zune software should work OK with Windows 7. :D I imagine Apple will have Windows 7 compatibility working OK by October when Windows 7 officially comes out.

Jason Dunn

09-09-2009, 11:52 PM

Actually if Apple were really afraid of that, they would not have included WiFi. VOIP is already possible (jailbroken) on the 'Touches.

The number of jailbroken iPod Touch units can't be that significant - I doubt it even registers on Apple's radar. Not including WiFi isn't an option - but you can see Apple wiggling around on why they have concerns with VOIP apps:

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/apple-answers-fcc-questions/

I've seen screenshots of the Zune Marketplace but I'm not making the connection you are ?

I'm not the only one - check out the live coverage. More than a few people thought "Zune" when it was shown.

Ruination509

09-10-2009, 12:25 AM

My biggest disapointment? That iTunes 9 isn't officially compatible with Windows 7. I know eventually it will be, but I thought they were going to introduce that official compatability with 9.0.

I installed iTunes 9 on my Windows 7 Pro RTM computer today without a problem. Seems to be working just fine without official compatibility out there.

09-10-2009, 02:16 AM

The ability to sync music (http://zunethoughts.com/news/show/95090/reactions-of-a-zune-fan-to-the-september-2009-ipod-announcements.html#)/videos from one PC to another is neat, but Apple is still focused on a peer to peer system and is ignoring users who want to centralize their media content (NAS drive, Windows Home Server, etc.). I wonder if iTunes 9 will finally monitor music folders?

Folder monitoring accomplishes several things, and it's still not available in iTunes, but it's not just centralized storage. To your specific concern of central storage:

1. You can place a music library on a NAS/server/peripheral device, and then simply change the default library location to the address of this directory on any and/or all PCs on the network. Centralization problem solved.

2. With Bonjour on, you have access to all local network libraries anyway: centralization through decentralization. (And you could still opt to have a networked accessible centralized library too!)

*3. Throw in SimplifyMedia (http://www.simplifymedia.com/) (and for special fun, if you can, Mojo (http://mojo.en.softonic.com/mac)), and you're money!

Phillip Dyson

09-10-2009, 02:47 AM

Personally I glad the annoucements are done and over. As far fetched as it may be I believe that there may be a chance that MS was holding some HD goodness back to see what Apple would do.

Its probably not likely, but a man can dream.

BBBikernerd

09-10-2009, 03:05 AM

I think if Microsoft integrates X Box Live Arcade games into the HD, it will pull customers away from the iPod. The power of the Tegra kicks the Apple's butt. Also, if Microsoft had a decent selections of Apps, you will finally see competition for apple.

09-10-2009, 03:08 AM

The camera on the iPod Nano is kind of neat, but HD is all the rage now - so is VGA video really going to be that useful?All the rage? How so? Are we seeing it put in several devices this summer/winter? Yes. Is it a rage in that consumers are demanding it? I don't see it yet. Home TV/theatre: yes. Recording, distribution, and playback on small devices or docked devices: Not seeing much demand and not seeing it being the determining factor in purchase choice even when it is available. I imagine quite a few will be seduced and could regret it when they start choking their device's capacity or try to upload... (wait, the Zune doesn't have a camera so it won't be uploading video to social networks anyway) ...download a purchase or sync in a rush. And a very small group that understands it, demands it, and can deal with its effect on capacity, network activity, and battery life -- but only a very, very small group -- not a raging hoard.

The good news here is that by eliminating the 16 GB iPod Touch, Apple is forcing people to make a $100 price jump, and at retail that's a huge jump. 16 GB is enough storage for a lot of people, so the Zune HD has an opportunity to steal sales from people who want more than 8 GB, but aren't willing to spend $299.This is Apple's gambit that its lead in apps, ubiquity, Store, etc... justifies the $80 price difference. Even if Zune sales increase a thousand fold, that only takes 10% of the market away from Apple.. for ONE specific device at ONE specific price point.

Of course, still having a very-low-end (shuffle) and low-end-but-pretty-amazingly-featured (nano), and mid-range-high capacity offering (classic) means that Apple still dominates at essentially every price point (and, yes, will nudge many customers into either a cheaper model (8GB touches are gonna sell! Maybe surpass nanos.) and also quite a few into a more expensive, upsell device). (And I didn't even mention the iPhone itself.) And...

I'm really surprised that Apple can do a 64 GB iPod Touch for $399, but I guess with their massive purchasing power on Flash memory they can do what no one else can do.It's not just that they are the single largest consumer of Flash. That higher price point 32GB has a nice margin that is feeding the 64GB model. Again, the 8GB is going to sell! For all the people that want 240GB, there are 10x many people who will say: "for $20 cheaper, I can live with the 8GB touch, with all of the advantages of the touch, over the HD."

Sure, the 32 GB and 64 GB versions are faster (welcome to the world of platform fragmentation Apple!), but still no microphone, no camera, same screen resolution, no HD anything?Bet half the Zune owners upset by the abandonment of the 120 would have compromised with a 64GB Zune HD but now... maybe have to seek an alternative or wait a few months.

As for fragmentation, the sum of the iPod line has embraced fragmentation for quite a while. Pointing out iPhone/iPod touch fragmentation is silly in comparison to Microsoft's mobile strategy of supporting every device price point and form factor.

Even when it came to music player fragmentation, Microsoft managed three years of a device that only evolved generationally by two years... six years after the device had been introduced and 2 years after several platform/form factors had stabilized (Remember when 1.8" HDDs were a hot market? You know, even after 60% of all iPods were already Flash, but the stock prices of HDD manufacturers fluctuated on 1.8" HDD announcements? Now Apple is one of the only buyers.) And as soon as the first wave of real hardware fragmentation (when they couldn't just look and see what others had already done before them) hit the Zune team, Microsoft abandoned all other models rather than support the one to three year old devices.

So we'll see who does the better job of managing fragmentation. Fragmentation has to be embraced rather than scorned or mocked or feared if you want to move forward technologically -- you also have to compromise and backport when possible as a supplier and compromise and give up on some features as a consumer who may not upgrade with each new release.

Microsoft has a tiny and not really great history here (if only looking at music players) and a horrible strategy that stagnates growth looking towards the future (WinMo + Zune/XBox Marketplace strategy). What was it? Four, five feature updates? That justifies abandoning two devices, two and three years old at most, in their entirety? Just because you can't backport a couple of hardware features?

Also, I think I'll know if an app needs a video camera or not.

I don't know what the numbers are, but given the way Apple ignores the Classic (hell, even the name tells you that...) I don't think they're big sellers. It seems like Apple is keeping it around to keep some people happy, but are there a lot of those people? I'm not so sure...Apple sold more than 22 million iPods last Christmas quarter. If the classic was 5% of that (maybe, probably not, but not far off either), in one quarter classic sales are in the range of all Zunes annually. Repeat: all Zunes annually. In one quarter. From an antiquated component that yields high margins. Keeping people happy or keep making money?

As for the naming (which I don't think matters to Apple's strategy beyond basic marketing), just imagine in two years or so, a decade after the first iPod, as Apple is fazing out classics and maybe other models, but celebrating the birthday of their iPod and... The iPod touch simply becomes the iPod. Can we be certain that Microsoft is still making a hardware device called the Zune for the holiday season 2012?

The Zune software should work OK with Windows 7. :D I imagine Apple will have Windows 7 compatibility working OK by October when Windows 7 officially comes out.Not only is iTunes 9 compatible with Windows7, it's faster, and supports new Windows7 features like the jumplists in the Task Bar; they just are not advertisizing compatibility with an OS that is not widely available on the consumer market yet.

Just some perspective.

djrudiak

09-10-2009, 04:17 AM

iTunes is in 23 countries. The Zune Marketplace is in one. Microsoft's US-centric approach with the Zune is maddening...I thought there was some light at the end of the tunnel when they launched the Zune in Canada last year, but we never got the Zune Marketplace here, and now the devices being sold here are being killed off. "Disaster" is a good word for how well the Zune launch went in Canada. Between the Zune HD being US-only at launch, and all of the IP-based geographic blocking madness that the Zune software and Web site does, it's like the Zune team is doing everything they can to alienate everyone in the world outside the US. More after the break.

Has anyone heard what is the mindset at Microsoft in only offering the Marketplace to people residing in the US?

Of all the issues that come to my mind, I can't figure out how they can't overcome them.

1) Copyright - It seems that Apple has overcome any issues with copyright. Surely Microsoft's lawyers must be a smart as them.

2) Software challenges - C'mon. One of the biggest software companies in the world should be able to figure out how to make certain pieces of music or video or whatever available to one market region and perhaps not to another.

3) Financial - Microsoft seems to have no problem selling other stuff online to people outside of the United States.

4) Distribution agreements - Again something that Apple has been able to figure out. This is something that is neither hardware nor software in nature. If Microsoft only signed an agreement to distribute content in the United States, I'm sure that the content provider would not object to deriving revenue from other markets via Microsoft.

5) CRTC - Again something that Apple has been able to figure out.

6) Canadian Networks/Music Distributors - Again something that Apple has been able to figure out.

I've never seen an official statement from Microsoft explaining WHY Marketplace is not available in Canada. Sure we're only on market the size of California, but Apple has been able to find worth in an additional 22 countries as well as Canada, just what is up with Microsoft?

While I continue to read news articles about how Canada is a haven for illegal downloading, but as an owner of a Zune I have no other software alternative to legally (and conveniently) purchase items.

Sure, I suppose I could buy an iPod, but I could also push a hot poker into my eyes. (The following statement was made by a late '80's Apple fanboy. I owned an Apple II+ when it wasn't cool to own an Apple.)

Darius Wey

09-10-2009, 04:45 AM

Jason Dunn

09-10-2009, 06:50 AM

Just some perspective.

Heh. Wow. Perspective indeed. I think I'll just say thanks for sharing your many thoughts and leave it at that. :) I will say though that if you look around the Web at other reactions to the Apple announcements today, you'll find many far more negative about it then I was.

Jason Dunn

09-10-2009, 07:05 AM

Has anyone heard what is the mindset at Microsoft in only offering the Marketplace to people residing in the US? Of all the issues that come to my mind, I can't figure out how they can't overcome them.
...
4) Distribution agreements - Again something that Apple has been able to figure out. This is something that is neither hardware nor software in nature. If Microsoft only signed an agreement to distribute content in the United States, I'm sure that the content provider would not object to deriving revenue from other markets via Microsoft.

I agree completely (obviously) and I'm practically tearing my hair out of my head trying to figure out why Microsoft seems to be completely and totally inept a this. The only two things that comes to mind are this:

Apple was the first company to negotiate big, international music distribution deals, and way back then most of the music labels probably though Apple would fail, or at best only be mildly successful. So they said "Sure, 99 cents sounds fine as long as the bit rate sucks." Fast-forward, and iTunes is massively successful. We've watched as the record labels pressured Apple for variable pricing year after year, trying to re-assert control over their music. They finally got it. The labels don't like all the power that Apple has, so here's my theory: they're making it very hard, if not impossible, for the Zune guys to get the same sort of deal that Apple has. They're trying to exert control over the Zune deal in a way they wish they could have done with the Apple deal years ago.

Witness the $1 that Universal demanded Microsoft pay them for every Zune sold. We're talking POWER STRUGGLE here people. Maybe that's one reason why Microsoft can't accomplish now what Apple did years ago - the record labels are more aware of what they want to control.

Second reason? Maybe Microsoft feels that the Zune Pass is SO important that they can't/won't launch Zune Marketplace without it. It's quite integral to the Zune experience - many new Zune features rely on the customer having a Zune Pass - so maybe Microsoft isn't launching in new markets unless that market includes the Zune Pass. I think this is a bit silly - not everyone wants a Zune Pass - but maybe it's another reason?

These are just my theories. :)

09-10-2009, 07:51 AM

I will say though that if you look around the Web at other reactions to the Apple announcements today, you'll find many far more negative about it then I was.

Jason, I thought your thoughts were very fair to the iPod and were rather astute. On the other hand, I think you are overly optimistic about the Zune's competitiveness and the strengths of its few advantages.

Most negative comments derive from solely an in-the-know techy, consumer perspective. I don't find it very relevant in the real marketplace. Most people buying a music player or mobile device in the next year aren't thinking dream features they haven't heard of; they are thinking: this has more than last year and is cheaper.

Hell, can you remember which of the 3-6 announcements/keynotes Apple has made each year over the last 8 years that was received by the majority of the press favorably? Has the marketplace reflected these "pannings" of "meh, boring" announcements?

doogald

09-10-2009, 02:49 PM

Steve Jobs on why there is no camera on the Touch (from NYTimes (http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/09/in-qa-steve-jobs-snipes-at-amazon-and-praises-ice-cream/)):

“Originally, we weren’t exactly sure how to market the Touch. Was it an iPhone without the phone? Was it a pocket computer? What happened was, what customers told us was, they started to see it as a game machine,” he said. “We started to market it that way, and it just took off. And now what we really see is it’s the lowest-cost way to the App Store, and that’s the big draw. So what we were focused on is just reducing the price to $199. We don’t need to add new stuff. We need to get the price down where everyone can afford it.”

So, I think that I was right; they were more concerned this year with getting the Touch at the right price/storage levels than adding features like a camera or a microphone, and most of their consumers seem to care more about simple gaming apps than they do about features. And keeping the same 8GB model meant that there would be a feature difference between the 8 GB and the 32 and 64, maybe something that they did not want.

Also:

I also asked him why the Nano can record video, but can’t snap still photos. That reason, he said, is technical: the sensors you need to record video are extremely thin these days—thin enough to fit into the wafer-thin Nano. But the ones with enough resolution for stills, especially with autofocus (like the sensor in the iPhone), are much too thick to cram into a player that’s only .02 inches thick.

So they'd rather have a thin, video Nano than a thicker one that can also shoot still photos. Interesting. (Still, my 4G Nano makes a flash Zune look like a thick slab by comparison, so he's probably right about keeping it as thin as the 4G.)

09-10-2009, 07:53 PM

crimsonsky

09-10-2009, 09:05 PM

The 160GB Ipod is going to be a major problem for Zune. It even offers more space than the now defunct 120GB Zune.

Am I the only one that remembers that the 120 GB classic replaced the 160 GB classic and that Apple is just bringing back something it had previously killed?

crimsonsky

09-10-2009, 09:08 PM

My biggest disapointment? That iTunes 9 isn't officially compatible with Windows 7. I know eventually it will be, but I thought they were going to introduce that official compatability with 9.0.

It's not? I have it loaded on my netbook running Windows 7 RC and haven't noticed any problems. Of course, I don't sync any of my iPods or my iPhone with my netbook either, so maybe that's the issue.

crimsonsky

09-10-2009, 09:12 PM

I don't know what the numbers are, but given the way Apple ignores the Classic (hell, even the name tells you that...) I don't think they're big sellers. It seems like Apple is keeping it around to keep some people happy, but are there a lot of those people? I'm not so sure...

Maybe not a lot, but I'm certainly one of them. As much as I like my Touch and my iPhone, my two HD based iPods are my main music machines because I can have my entire iTunes library on them. The 80 GB stays in the car and the 120 GB is my "daily driver." I hate having to pick and choose what I'm going to put on my flash based iPods, so I don't. Neither my iPhone nor my Touch currently have any music on them. I use my HD based iPods for that.

My son, on the other hand, is perfectly content with flash-based stuff, but his iTunes library is only a small fraction of the size of mine.

Dyvim

09-10-2009, 09:22 PM

Am I the only one that remembers that the 120 GB classic replaced the 160 GB classic and that Apple is just bringing back something it had previously killed?
Well, yes and no. The new classic is a thin single platter device for $249 whereas the one from 2 years ago was a double platter device sold for $349. But yeah, they're otherwise pretty similar and nothing much new.

Dyvim

09-10-2009, 09:27 PM

I find it interesting that Apple has been getting panned on the blogs for only doubling storage for the same price points on the Touch (plus a faster processor on the mid and high end models) and not adding a camera, etc. But at the same time, the blogs have mostly applauded the new nano which didn't increase storage (let alone double it) but added a camera, FM radio, and pedometer (although they did lower their higher price point by $20).

I too expected a camera on the new Touch.

But I bet the new nanos and Touches sell like hotcakes this holiday. Time will tell.

Not that I really care either way. The only iPod I plan to buy any more is the next gen (2010) iPhone.

doogald

09-10-2009, 09:47 PM

Bam! They have added watched folders:

http://lifehacker.com/5356619/itunes-finally-adds-watched-folder-to-automatically-add-new-music

Well, since it isn't advertised and it's one specific folder, this isn't the true feature delivered yet -- apparently just a quiet test. However, with it implemented even in only one specific folder, there are a million ways to get this now to work as anyway could expect monitored folders to work with a few small tweaks.

I've actually been doing this with a folder action set to a very, very simple automator script (it is a two step action, actually.) It's always worked fine. But I'll definitely replace it with this.

09-10-2009, 11:56 PM

I've actually been doing this with a folder action set to a very, very simple automator script (it is a two step action, actually.) It's always worked fine. But I'll definitely replace it with this.Yeah, pretty easy with automator, but the Win folks don't get that benefit. I've never had much concern for folder monitoring myself as I always want to scrub and edit tags based on my own conventions anyway when I import music rather than letting anything that may be downloaded or added from another source or added by someone else on my computer or on the network just populate the music with their own naming and tagging schemes. But it's nice to see Apple working on this, even in a crude state at this point.

Eriq Cook

09-12-2009, 07:07 PM

...I think it's a huge mistake for the Zune team to drop the small form-factor Zune. If I ever manage to convince my brain to take me back to the gym again, I'm not going to strap my expensive, 32 GB Zune HD to my arm. I'm going to bring a cheap SanDisk Sansa Clip, a device that's a pain to sync music onto. I'd much rather be using a really small, Flash-based Zune (even if it didn't have a screen).

I just posted a similar rant. It's a huge mistake. Microsoft needs to understand that people want variety--at least 2 or 3 different form factor options. Taking the Zune HD with me to run or weight lift is NOT an ideal situation. The thought of dropping it while weight lifting or running (something that happens with my small Zune 8GB), getting sweat on the gorgeous OLED touch screen frequently or just plain being stolen from the gym makes me cringe. It's a theft magnet, and it's larger than ideal to strap on my arm or on shorts while working out.

I might delete my other post, but overall I'm wondering what is going on with the Zune development team. The Zune HD is great move, but Microsoft is still clearly missing it with these decisions. I don't really like the iPod nano, but with my smaller Zune 8GB in very worn condition (after a year of carrying it to the gym), I need to replace it soon and will have no choice but to buy an iPod nano now. And if I do that, it makes no sense for me to use two different programs for managing music on two different devices. So I might juts go the Apple route all-together now. I'd buy an iPod Touch AND a Nano as long as I can manage them with the same program.

The only thing I absolutely hate about iTunes however is its peer-to-peer system instead of central/server based media library option. Having to "license" 5 computers for playing music around the house is plain silly to me.

They just can't just get it right can they? LOL

Phillip Dyson

09-12-2009, 08:33 PM

it makes no sense for me to use two different programs for managing music on two different devices. So I might juts go the Apple route all-together now. I'd buy an iPod Touch AND a Nano as long as I can manage them with the same program.

You make a good point. Since the Zune player doesn't give you an option to use other players consumers are forced to choose. Discontinuing the flash players may have just been a numbers game to focus their resources.

I don't know how many people tend to own more than one sized device but even if is low, there are probably a substantial amount of people that only have a small form factor.

Does anyone know the sales percentages of Zune flash players vs. Zune hard drive players?

Perhaps MS' answer to this will to open up the Zune ecosystem to other vendors.