OEM Leaks Windows Mobile 6.5 User Interface

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.gearlog.com/2009/01/manufacturer_outs_windows_mobi.php' target='_blank'>http://www.gearlog.com/2009/01/manu...indows_mobi.php</a><br /><br /></div><p><em>"There have been a ton of leaks of Windows Mobile 6.5 on the Internet, and Microsoft is widely expected to announce the new version of Windows Mobile on Feb. 16 at the Mobile World Congress trade show in Barcelona. But today Windows Mobile 6.5 popped up on an official manufacturer's Web site - admittedly, a small manufacturer who hasn't yet successfully put out a product, but they're a manufacturer nonetheless. On Compulab's page for their new Exeda handheld they have a "Windows Mobile 6.5" tab, where they say, "To demonstrate just how friendly to developers exeda is, CompuLab software team brought-up Windows Mobile 6.5 Alpha on exeda the same day it was released.""</em></p><p><img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/600/ppct/auto/1232984550.usr1.jpg" style="border: 1px solid #d2d2bb;" /></p><p><img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/600/ppct/auto/1232984567.usr1.jpg" style="border: 1px solid #d2d2bb;" /></p><p>I can't say much more about this due to an NDA I'm under, but <a href="http://www.exedamobile.com/web/index.php?option=com_content&amp;view=article&amp;id=3&amp;Itemid=7" target="_blank">the images leaked by this manufacturer</a> speak for themselves. What do you think of what you're seeing above?</p>

[Cattle-Dog]

My feelings can be summed up as: meh.

Having used CHOME on my Q9h, I think it is a big improvement to the classic Today screen. However, I am currently spoiled by HTC's Touch 3D interface. Microsoft should hire their deign teams, as they know how to build a sexy UI!

Personally, I do not like the "hex launcher" at all. It makes scanning the list of programs unecessarily cumbersome, as it breaks up the naturel left and right scanning of our eyes.

It be writing like .
would like text this:D

[Perry Reed]

The new Today screen certainly looks pretty and is a big improvement over WM 6.1 and earlier. Hopefully it will perform better than HTC's TouchFlow.

As for the hex grid thing, well it looks... interesting. I think I'll reserve judgement until I see it in action. If it makes quick work of finding and launching applications then I'm all for it.

And I still wonder how deep do these new changes go. Is this just another Today screen / program launcher shell and do we have the same old, same old underneath? I know the major changes are in WM 7, but if there's really nothing else new in 6.5 I'll be very underwhelmed.

[mbranscum]

Jason,

Has there been any evidence that we will be able to install this on our existing q9h, or other current WM device???

[kerrins]

It does nothing for me. Hex's just seem to use up space. It seems like I can fit a lot more choices in if I just use tiles. The bird thing...well, I can't say anything nice about it.

[Dyvim]

I find the hex screenshot hard to believe due to the cropped text on the bottom row of icons. Surely MS wouldn't do that, would they?

I'm not against the hex idea- it's a good way to get finger-friendly icons without having to go with a grid and provides a look that differentiates it from the competition.

I too wonder if the changes go much beyond the home screen. For a dot revision, we probably shouldn't expect too much.

[Macguy59]

I think the UI still looks old. I'm stunned that this is the best they can come up with.

[Craig Horlacher]

Touch interfaces just do not port well to Windows mobile device *in general*. The problem is the huge veriation in dpi!!!

For instance, my i-mate Ultimate 6150 has a 2.8" 480x640 resolution screen. There are some Windows Mobile devices that have 2.8" 240x320 resolution screens. That's one quarter of the dpi as mine!!! So if they're developing finger touchable buttons that will work well on the 240x320 resolution screen, they will be much smaller, four times smaller, on my screen and probably not comfortable to press with the finger.

The iphone has a huge advantage since they all have the same size and resolution. The same applies to the G1 for now at least.

They could work around this by using different bitmaps and layouts for different screen dpi's but this would get complicated and would be confusing to many users if not set by the oem.

So, I'm not saying it can't be done but just trying to point out (ok, this is just my opinion, I'm no developer) that Microsoft or other vendors have a tough job ahead. I actually would not like to loose the stylus for detailed work but a more touch friendly interface would be welcome.

[Dyvim]

Touch interfaces just do not port well to Windows mobile device *in general*. The problem is the huge veriation in dpi!!!

For instance, my i-mate Ultimate 6150 has a 2.8" 480x640 resolution screen. There are some Windows Mobile devices that have 2.8" 240x320 resolution screens. That's one quarter of the dpi as mine!!! So if they're developing finger touchable buttons that will work well on the 240x320 resolution screen, they will be much smaller, four times smaller, on my screen and probably not comfortable to press with the finger.
If this were true, you could barely touch the Start button on your VGA device because it would be so small. But that is not the case because on your device the Start button (and all other major UI elements like the top and bottom bars, menu items, etc.) are drawn with 4x as many pixels (2x width and 2x height) as on a QVGA device so that they occupy the same amount of real estate. I'm sure the same will be true for any finger-friendly elements in WM 6.5.

However, there will be a big difference between a 4" screen and a 2.8" screen regardless of whether either one is VGA or QVGA. Items that are finger friendly on a 4" screen may not be friendly on a 2.8" screen.

[joelevi]

I find the hex screenshot hard to believe due to the cropped text on the bottom row of icons. Surely MS wouldn't do that, would they?

...



From a UI/UX perspective, they need to provide a mechanism for the user to "get to" the next screen of icons, the logical way to do this would be to show part of the next row and provide some mechanism (a flick, or tap and drag, or something) to advance the display to the next row of hexes...

My two-bits...

- www.JoeLevi.com

[Cattle-Dog]

Jason,

Has there been any evidence that we will be able to install this on our existing q9h, or other current WM device???

The CHOME (Sliding Panle home screen) is available on the Q9h if you install the Windows Mobile 6.1 update (http://direct.motorola.com/hellomoto/motosupport/source/SoftwareUpdateSummary.asp?country=USA&language=ENS&web_page_name=SUPPORT&strCarrierId=ATT&strPhone=MOTO%20Q9h%20Global&strCable=Micro%20USB%20Data%20Cable).

[Rocco Augusto]

I'll save judgment of the new honeycomb user interface until I get a chance to play with it, from the pictures though it does not look like it is the best solution for a landscape device.

[virain]

I think, there are some people here, that no matter what MS does, it won't be good enough for them. They come here just too complain and take out their frustration, so they could feel better about themselves at least for the next few minutes.

[Janak Parekh]

I think, there are some people here, that no matter what MS does, it won't be good enough for them. They come here just too complain and take out their frustration, so they could feel better about themselves at least for the next few minutes. Are you arguing that these rumored shots show an absolutely perfect UI that deserves no criticism?

--janak

[Jason Dunn]

Are you arguing that these rumored shots show an absolutely perfect UI that deserves no criticism?

No, he's saying some people are so biased against Microsoft that they will never be impressed by anything they do, regardless of how good it is. And I happen to agree with him.

[ucfgrad93]

No, he's saying some people are so biased against Microsoft that they will never be impressed by anything they do, regardless of how good it is. And I happen to agree with him.

True, but people do that with any platform.

Have to say, that this doesn't look that impressive to me, however, I am anxious to hear and see it officially before I just write it off.

[Janak Parekh]

No, he's saying some people are so biased against Microsoft that they will never be impressed by anything they do, regardless of how good it is. And I happen to agree with him. I reread the comments on this thread, and most of them seem to be constructive (i.e., "This is an improvement, really like the today screen, not sure about the hex arrangement, it seems harder to read"). So, I don't agree with virain's thesis with respect to comments on this thread. :) It's also worth pointing out that new OSes coming out are starting to set the bar higher and higher, so MS needs to work harder to catch up.

If these shots are true, I'd be curious to hear as to why they (MS) adopted the hex arrangement. It's kind of neat-looking, but I do agree with some of the usability concerns. I think taking the Zune cue for the Today screen is a potentially great idea.

--janak

[Bob Anderson]

I'm not really sure what to think.

I guess, if this is the "holdover" until WM 7, then, it might be OK. The honeycomb style "selection" pane seems OK, particularly if it scrolls both up-down and left-right. The "today" screen looks interesting as well - but - we simply don't have enough information to go on here.

Janak is right when he says Microsoft has a lot of catching up to do. I'm not certain 6.5 is going to get us where ultimately Microsoft needs us to be, but, if it is a step in the right direction I guess we can work with that.

The real million dollar question is going to be: What handset makers will update their devices to run 6.5, and probably more importantly, how long between 6.5's release and 7? If I have to buy a new device to take advantage of 6.5, knowing that in 9 months or less 7 will come out, forget it. I'll stick with 6.1. But, if the 6.5 upgrade is a nominal fee, I'll pay the fee to upgrade and then wait for what will probably be a much better device when 7 comes out.

Microsoft has really painted themselves into a corner here. I hope they can find a safe way out.

[egads]

HTC's TouchFlo and SPB's MobileShell out of the box look better than the WinMo 6.5 pictures. I have a HTC Touch and I like the TouchFlo and have played around with MobileShell and liked that well enough to buy it.

If I was looking at pictures of UI's to try out on Handango and saw the pictures of the WinMo6.5 interface I would not have even clicked on it to learn more about it. Looks/tastes like plain oatmeal with no sugar!

On the other hand, if WinMo6.5 has a quicker/snapier UI I would live with the bee hive and give it a try. Any new UI out of MS has to be cleaner & faster for me to even consider it. At least MS appears to be putting some effort into into catching up to the "other guys" finally....

[Jason Dunn]

However, I am currently spoiled by HTC's Touch 3D interface. Microsoft should hire their deign teams, as they know how to build a sexy UI!

I'll be curious to see if you feel the same way in a few months. I was initially blown away by TouchFlo 3D on the Diamond, but over the month I used it, I got frustrated with how much more work I had to do to get to what I wanted. Sure, it's cute to show me the first few words of an email, but how is that helpful exactly? I think TouchFlo 3D is a good start, but it needs to evolve more towards usability.

[efjay]

I am also one of those frustrated with MS and their apparent lack of progress with WM but I cant see how we can really judge WM 6.5 from 2 screenshots from what the manufacturer itself calls an alpha version. Its impossible to know how the UI works, whether it extends to all areas of the OS or just the today screen.

It seems though that the expectation is that MS has to beat the current UI's to be seen as moving forward but personally as long as they do an update to all parts of the WM UI to be more intuitive and with better flow I think that is a good enough update for now till WM7 is released. After all practically every reviewer or forum thread is filled with claims of how "ugly" the current UI is, so an update to the GUI is what it seems MS is shooting for. I dont need eye candy just for the sake of it, better to have changes that actually help you work better than just piling on the bling.

[Jason Dunn]

True, but people do that with any platform.

Yes, but in my opinion, they do it more with Microsoft than anything else, and that's what gets a little tiresome. I see other platforms getting way more slack, and users even defending bone-headed decisions that the company makes.

I was watching Engadget's videos of the Palm Pre for instance. The UI on the Pre was quite laggy at times, and application launching looked painfully slow - worse yet, when an app was launched, there was no visual indicator to the user that the app was in the process of starting up. Sure, it was beta software, but for Engadget to not criticize that as an area in need of improvement, or to even mention it, shows favouratism. You can bet that if it was a Microsoft-based OS and the same things happened, they'd have much more to say.

And this isn't me bashing the Palm Pre - I think it looks quite excellent in a number of ways!

[Jason Dunn]

Has there been any evidence that we will be able to install this on our existing q9h, or other current WM device???

This, unfortunately, will be the same old party line: it's up to the OEMs to decide whether or not they want to offer the upgrade to users. Some might, most probably won't. It depends too on what the hardware requirements will be - Microsoft has said publicly that the primary reason they didn't release IE6 for download was because the performance wasn't up to expectations on some older hardware.

I think that's pretty weak, because certainly any modern device from HTC with a 500+ Mhz CPU and 256 MB of RAM should be able to handle it just fine...but I'm sure your average 200mhz 64 MB RAM device would crumble running it, so I know it's at least partially valid. But why couldn't they release it as an installer and just have a list of devices that it will actually work properly on?

[whydidnt]

I can't tell from the screen shot, but it looks like they are incorporating the Panels included in WM standard 6.1. If so, that's a great idea. The Panel home screen is one the most useful I've encountered. Not sure I like the Honeycomb idea, seems to me they are trying too hard to be different, but perhaps there's a usability item I don't understand. I also don't understand why everyone wants to complicate the UI. The most logical UI to launch programs is a tabbed interface similar to many of the add-on's we used to see on Palm devices. It's simple, easy to organize with drag and drop and doesn't require the user to scroll through multiple pages before accessing a program (like the iPhone does).

However, the whole UI thing is overblown. Microsoft is chasing the UI tail because they are so far behind it's sad. However, the reality that the ENTIRE experience needs to improve. Hopefully their talk earlier about working closer with OEMs will bear fruit, but I'm not holding my breath. Why can't MS or it's OEM partner's deliver a no compromise device? I mean an out of the box device that doesn't require adding 3rd party programs to watch a video, or build a decent playlist or browse the internet. A device that doesn't require me to squint to see a tiny 2.8" VGA screen, or purchase additional memory just to carry my music collection. I device that easily allows me to navigate it's UI, and scroll through web pages and documents with out screaming in frustration because A) - the dpad is too slow or inconveniently located, or B) every time I try this flick scrolling thing, I have to press to hard and end up clicking a hyper link I didn't want to.

We are now 10 years into this whole pocket device experiment, and our WM OS and it's devices have barely evolved. MS probably needs to fork their development - we need a touch friendly OS that enables use of a capacitive touch screen, and a 2nd that is still stylus/DPad friendly for those that prefer to interact that way. I'm learning to appreciate touch because I don't have to think about interacting with external buttons, etc. However, I'd still love to see a Hi-Res WM device that included a front facing keyboard and trackball. I'd probably drool on myself if I could get touch screen Blackberry Bold running WM!!;)

[Damion Chaplin]

My three immediate impressions:

1) I like the transparent bars at the top and bottom of the home screen. Too bad they didn't carry it over to every other screen (yet). Otherwise, I think I prefer the existing 6.1 sliding panel interface. I never did like the Zune's interface. Like making the words big with rounded corners is going to fool us into not thinking 'text-based interface'. Personally, I prefer icons. Besides, the Zune is widely considered to be a huge flop. I don't want people mistaking my Touch Pro for a Zune (they are styled and colored very similarly)! :p

2) Anyone notice how freakin' BIG that X is in the corner of the screen. It's like - gasp - finger sized! Or at least as big as they could make it given the tiny space up there.

3) The hex thing is just dumb. You can only fit 6 icons on the screen (that you can read the caption for)? That just seems like a monsterous waste of screen real estate. My fingers are big, but they're not that big! Seriously, I think anything that HTC's invented over, say, the last two years beats this interface. I agree TouchFlo takes some getting used to, but more than this interface? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Oh, and that Exeda handheld has got to be the ugliest handset I've ever seen! It's even uglier than the G1! :D

[Jason Dunn]

However, there will be a big difference between a 4" screen and a 2.8" screen regardless of whether either one is VGA or QVGA. Items that are finger friendly on a 4" screen may not be friendly on a 2.8" screen.

Indeed - and this is a huge challenge for Microsoft. I don't think people realize how hard it is to develop a great UI that works across a variety of devices, screen sizes, and touch/non-touch hardware. Developing one UI for one device at one screen size? Pretty simple in comparison.

[Janak Parekh]

I was watching Engadget's videos of the Palm Pre for instance. The UI on the Pre was quite laggy at times, and application launching looked painfully slow - worse yet, when an app was launched, there was no visual indicator to the user that the app was in the process of starting up. Sure, it was beta software, but for Engadget to not criticize that as an area in need of improvement, or to even mention it, shows favouratism. You can bet that if it was a Microsoft-based OS and the same things happened, they'd have much more to say. I don't completely agree with this particular example. The Pre is an example of Palm doing something new, so people are focusing on the new stuff; in some sense, they're "distracted", since there's many new concepts to grasp that keeps one occupied. When there hasn't been enough of the "new", one naturally focuses more about the little things, the criticism. If you looked at previous releases of the Palm OS, the same criticism that is now being applied against WM was extremely widespread. If Microsoft was demonstrating a revolutionary new WM (WM7?), I think the reaction might be different.

(For what it is worth, I consider the media's reaction to new desktop OSes to be a bit of a different ballgame. But, even there, look at the incredibly positive reaction Windows 7 is generating. There's been so little negative reaction to Windows 7, and it's not even close to release.)

--janak

[Cattle-Dog]

I'll be curious to see if you feel the same way in a few months. I was initially blown away by TouchFlo 3D on the Diamond, but over the month I used it, I got frustrated with how much more work I had to do to get to what I wanted. Sure, it's cute to show me the first few words of an email, but how is that helpful exactly? I think TouchFlo 3D is a good start, but it needs to evolve more towards usability.

I actually received my Fuze in late November. So far, I still really like it. I did restore it back to HTC's black theme and applied some of the well known tweaks to speed it up (including removing most of ATT's bloatware). A few swipes and I know what my next meetings are, what emails I received, what calls I missed, if I need an umbrella when I go to lunch, and adecent launch pad for my most used applications. I actually like the preview in TouchFlo 3D of my mail. Not every email (by far) is worth me whipping out the stylus and getting into mobile Outlook. So I think it serves its purpose there.

Don't get me wrong, it’s not perfect, mainly in that it is not really a shell replacement as it is a front end to hide a lot of the native UI. Which means that you do need to venture back into "plain" windows mobile on occasion (like reading email :) ).

Like I said, I think CHOME is a great step in the right direction, but I wonder if it is too little too late. Not as in WINDOWS MOBILE IS DOOOMED!!! ...but as in, I think with regards to the current trends in touch screen mobile phones , most manufactures will continue to include their own Today screen replacements that they feel will compete with next generation UI's from PALM, Google, and of course Apple. So I wonder aloud if CHOME for Windows Mobile Pro will even see much usage or become the next "Today" screen to be ignored.

Now jsut to clarify, I would be more rightfully called a Microsoft fanboy as opposed to having Microsoft derangement syndrome. I've exclusively owned MS based phones since they have offered them, I've owned MS based PDA's since WindowsCE 1.0, I have a Vista tablet, a Vista laptop, a Vista desktop, and an XP desktop (and I actually LIKE Vista), I run a 2008 domain complete with Exchange 2007 in my home, I am a paid TechNet subscriber, I'm a Lead Systems Engineer for several large enterprise environments (each 500-2000 servers) focusing mainly on Wintel and Active Directory.

So, Microsoft is okay with me. :D ...even if I have a few criticisms.

[whydidnt]

Indeed - and this is a huge challenge for Microsoft. I don't think people realize how hard it is to develop a great UI that works across a variety of devices, screen sizes, and touch/non-touch hardware. Developing one UI for one device at one screen size? Pretty simple in comparison.

Unfortunately, Microsoft made this bed, so they have to lie in it. It's their OS, they certainly could have limited the available resolution/screen sizes. However, I suspect they figured they could sell more licenses by offering flexibility here. They don't get a free pass on this from me. They received the benefit from by offering the supposed flexibility, they should be responsible for making the UI work. They've managed to support multiple resolutions on umpteen size monitors on the desktop for years. Yes, it adds complexity and size to the OS. I say if they aren't willing to offer a workable solution then they don't offer the license - solves that problem, doesn't it?

[Jason Dunn]

Unfortunately, Microsoft made this bed, so they have to lie in it. It's their OS, they certainly could have limited the available resolution/screen sizes. However, I suspect they figured they could sell more licenses by offering flexibility here.

Well said - and I agree with you, but no one should ignore the fact that one side effect of us being able to get a huge variety of devices, screen sizes, and general choice, is that very significant complexity. I'm not suggesting anyone give Microsoft a free pass, but changing UI directions is like turning the Titanic...it doesn't happen fast enough to please everybody.

[Cattle-Dog]

whydidn't, I tend to agree with a lot of what you are saying. Personally, I feel MS should send out a modernized hardware requirements with each major OS revision. Including dropping support for lower-end hardware where it makes since.

For example, I think for Windows Mobile 7.0 (not Windows CE in general) they should consider dropping support for QVGA devices, at least in their Pro series, and require a minimum level of 3D and graphic performance that would support their next UI we all hope they develope.

I know they have to a degree in past updates, but I don't think it has been near aggressive enough. Hopefully 7.0 will nail it out of the park.

[Janak Parekh]

whydidn't, I tend to agree with a lot of what you are saying. Personally, I feel MS should send out a modernized hardware requirements with each major OS revision. Including dropping support for lower-end hardware where it makes since. This is an excellent point. Since OEMs don't like to release OS upgrades for existing hardware, why should MS be beholden to limit themselves so that new WM releases work on said older hardware?

--janak

[whydidnt]

whydidn't, I tend to agree with a lot of what you are saying. Personally, I feel MS should send out a modernized hardware requirements with each major OS revision. Including dropping support for lower-end hardware where it makes since.

***long quote trimmed by mod JD***

Well put! An excellent thought on how Microsoft could initiate reasonable change.

[Pony99CA]

This is an excellent point. Since OEMs don't like to release OS upgrades for existing hardware, why should MS be beholden to limit themselves so that new WM releases work on said older hardware?
Many OEMs do release upgrades, though (Samsung and HTC come to mind). Motorola and HP don't seem to.

I still think my one upgrade per device (http://thoughts.svpocketpc.com#THOUGHT_OS_UPGRADE_POLICY) model is reasonable to keep users happy and allow hardware to move on. The only exception should be if the OS literally work in some hardware versions.

Steve

[Pony99CA]

They could work around this by using different bitmaps and layouts for different screen dpi's but this would get complicated and would be confusing to many users if not set by the oem.

To get around the problem with different resolutions and DPI making things too small to use, I believe the above is exactly what they do -- they ship different bitmaps et al. Read I'm Just A Feature (http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2006/09/11/749942.aspx) to get an idea of what development is like.

Steve

[Janak Parekh]

Many OEMs do release upgrades, though (Samsung and HTC come to mind). Motorola and HP don't seem to. But even the OEMs that release upgrades do so inconsistently.

I still think my one upgrade per device (http://thoughts.svpocketpc.com#THOUGHT_OS_UPGRADE_POLICY) model is reasonable to keep users happy and allow hardware to move on. The only exception should be if the OS literally work in some hardware versions. The reality, though, is that no OEM is going to consistently adopt this policy. I might actually not mind if they jettison or refine the policy if it means Microsoft can make more unilateral hardware requirement updates. One could easily find a common middle ground, i.e., no updates to major release versions (X.0) and at least one update to a minor release (Y.1).

--janak

[Pony99CA]

The reality, though, is that no OEM is going to consistently adopt this policy. I might actually not mind if they jettison or refine the policy if it means Microsoft can make more unilateral hardware requirement updates.
You're asking Microsoft to apply more unilateral constraints on the OEMs, so my suggested upgrade policy could be one of those constraints. ;)

Steve

[Bob Anderson]

I'm not suggesting anyone give Microsoft a free pass, but changing UI directions is like turning the Titanic...it doesn't happen fast enough to please everybody.

Yeah, well when you talk about pleasing everyone, just wait until Microsoft finally does get the Titanic turned around and everyone starts "crying" that the old apps they bought with WM2003 no longer work with WM7! It will make this thread seem like child's play!

I realize Microsoft can't please all of the people all of the time, but if they can make a compelling case for such a change, with revolutionary change rather than evolutionary, I for one, commit here and now in front of all PPC Thoughts readers, I will NOT complain about my app library being "wiped" out with a new release!

(NOTE: This exclusion will not apply to any mobile carrier who dreams up some lame excuse as to why they can't upgrade their device to the new OS, in the thinly veiled guise of incompatibility, when we all know they just want us to buy a new device, with subsidy, that gets us locked in for ANOTHER 2 YEARS!)

[Janak Parekh]

I realize Microsoft can't please all of the people all of the time, but if they can make a compelling case for such a change, with revolutionary change rather than evolutionary, I for one, commit here and now in front of all PPC Thoughts readers, I will NOT complain about my app library being "wiped" out with a new release! Like Palm's WebOS, which seems utterly incompatible with their previous one, but of which only few are complaining. :)

--janak

[Jason Dunn]

I realize Microsoft can't please all of the people all of the time, but if they can make a compelling case for such a change, with revolutionary change rather than evolutionary, I for one, commit here and now in front of all PPC Thoughts readers, I will NOT complain about my app library being "wiped" out with a new release!

I'm going to hold you to that. :D You're right, if Microsoft needs to break a few eggs to make the omelette that is Windows Mobile 7 have a completely different type of flavour, I hope people think like you do...

[Jason Dunn]

Like Palm's WebOS, which seems utterly incompatible with their previous one, but of which only few are complaining.

That's because Palm has no customers - everyone left and bought other devices. :D

[V-iPAQ]

durn that's one ugly interface...

I guess so now they'll make transparent everything, users revolt, next ver comes back to what we have now.

[TekDragon]

Without knowing all the details of Mr. Dunn's NDA, the general rule is that you can't say anything, but if some else leaks details, all bets are off, at least in relation to the leak, i.e. can talk about the leaked info, but not the rest. Maybe Mr. Dunn is being overly cautious, which I can certainly understand, but I'm guessing these pics aren't the real deal. Or if they were, have been abandoned in current builds that he has seen. As has been mentioned the first pic doesn't really show anything new. If the honeycomb is part of 6.5 I will have to use it to make a judgement. Just seeing it I can say I don't care for it. Maybe it's something meant for a larger touch screen or can be toggled somehow and just looks out of place on that device.

As for WinMo overall, I think WinMo 7 is was scrapped and is being built from scratch, which is why we'll get the interim of 6.5. I know retrofit or rebuild was a big argument at MS, I think/hope the rebuild side won out. There is some hope in this interview over at Cnet with Andy Lees, MS's top WinMo exec. http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10149349-75.html

One other bit of speculation/hope. Some have wonder why MS is having a PDC again this year and what it will be about. Since PDC is primarily a "platform" conference for developers, I think it will have something to do with WinMo 7 and the upcoming Skybox, Skymarket, etc. To what extent I can't say, but that's my hunch. Just to be clear I don't have any insider info, just a gut feeling. Sorry to be so long winded for my first post!:D

[Rocco Augusto]

I'll be curious to see if you feel the same way in a few months. I was initially blown away by TouchFlo 3D on the Diamond, but over the month I used it, I got frustrated with how much more work I had to do to get to what I wanted. Sure, it's cute to show me the first few words of an email, but how is that helpful exactly? I think TouchFlo 3D is a good start, but it needs to evolve more towards usability.

That was one of my biggest frustrations with the Sprint's Touch Diamond. It had all of the pretty but it felt as if there was little to no though put into usability. I can see the honeycomb layout working beautifully in portrait mode. From the comp shots that were making the rounds the last few months the honeycomb layout looked almost intuitive... though completely different from all other Microsoft user interfaces. It is so drastically different, it just confuses me. I would love to hear from the Windows Mobile team as to why they went in this new direction instead of just sticking solely with something like the Media Center/Zune interface which would have felt more natural.

Two user interfaces is just as confusing as the new honeycomb direction Microsoft appears to be heading in.

[Rocco Augusto]

2) Anyone notice how freakin' BIG that X is in the corner of the screen. It's like - gasp - finger sized! Or at least as big as they could make it given the tiny space up there.

I was super excited when I saw that picture. It was as if Microsoft was actually listening to their consumers complaints! I'm excited to play with the new OS, though from all the videos and images I have seen floating around the net, it appears that Windows Mobile 6.5 is just catching Windows Mobile Pro up to where Windows Mobile Standard has been for about a year now in terms of UI.

[landswipe]

1. Why is 'Play All Songs' promoted so high up in the UI?

2. The hex layout is an interesting use of space, but... 'What does the e with a yellow swirl around it do?'... damn you have to scroll down.

Wake me up when it's a rethink not a re-ink.

[Twain]

It's hard to get excited about two screen shots. My problem is that they have zero context. I have no way to know if these shots are illustrative of where Microsoft is eventually going with the UI for future versions of Windows Mobile, or is this just a throwaway UI to be completely revamped yet again for WM 7?

One of the most frustrating aspects of developing software for Windows Mobile is the huge swings in the UI that must be accomodated for software to be really considered marketable. From the large series of screen sizes and resolutions, to changes to the menu system that aren't easily defined in Visual Studio Resource Workshop (c++), to now the "hexagon" interface, with who knows what support there is in VS 2008, it is difficult to keep up with all of this unless you are working on developing WM software full-time. I wonder just how many software developers are really making money on Windows Mobile? With Microsoft killing off useful applications like Pocket Money, it almost suggests that their developers are having a hard time as well, with the multiplicity of devices that must be developed for.

An author of one of the earlier postings in this thread wondered if this would be backwards compatible with, say, WM 6.1. Another poster opined that it would be up to the various service providers on whether this would be offered. In my mind, therein lies the biggest issue that no one is talking about. I would be so happy if there were meager UI changes with WM 6.5 but instead, major changes to the architecture of the Operating System, such that applications and the UI are DECOUPLED from the radio portion of the OS. In other words, Microsoft desperately needs to get to the point where anyone can purchase (or download for free) an upgraded OS without permission from Verizon, Sprint, AT&T, etc. That would make a WM 6.5 totally awesome.

I am sick of the strangehold these companies have. When I can't buy a Palm Treo 800W or Treo Pro to upgrade my Treo 700W because Verizon has chosen not to offer these phones, something is horribly wrong. And no, the Blackberry Storm is not enticing! This is a different topic, I know, but, just venting here.

Bottom line, WM 6.5 should be focused on "underneath the UI" changes that provide more substantial benefits for consumers rather than an attempt to keep up with Apple or Google.

[Fritzly]

No, he's saying some people are so biased against Microsoft that they will never be impressed by anything they do, regardless of how good it is. And I happen to agree with him.

Similis cum similibus.....
Problem is that buyers disagree with you both and they are the final judges.

After so many years I expected more form MS.....

[macattack]

As a very long time Palm-sized PC/PocketPC/Windows Mobile user, let me first get this off of my chest: That honeycomb thing is just butt ugly. I agree with many of the prior posters: TouchFlo3D is a brilliant approach because it combines everything you do on a semi-regular basis into a single screen, allowing you to change the data you view with a simple slide of the finger.

The downside of the TF3D approach is data entry. I just bought and then returned a Touch Diamond because making notes, creating calendar events/tasks, editing Word documents during my work day was an inordinate pain in the butt. The screen apparently needed to be optimized for fat fingers, and any stylus input method (Transcriber, letter recognizer, etc.) just worked horribly, no matter how I tweaked the touch screen registry settings. HTC's on-screen keyboards weren't much better. They both took up too way much screen real estate, leaving me looking through a key hole at the actual application UI, and the keys on the full QWERTY were way too small for actual fingers (or thumbs) to type with any kind of speed. Additionally, the TF3D interface only goes so deep. You need a stylus to properly select so many interface elements once you get past it. My awesome wife, seeing my misery, offered to give my Samsung Epix back if I would just return the Diamond.

I go through that entire story to make this point: If Microsoft goes touch interface with 6.5, they need to go all the way and make it pervasive through the system. Doing so will probably require a touch screen highly optimized for finger input, perhaps even capacitive (a stylus will not work). Meaning there better be a physical keyboard on just about every device they make or people will be miserable trying to input text and see what's going on at the same time.

If Samsung releases a 6.5 update to my Epix, I'm going to really carefully read every review I can before I decide to install it.

[Pony99CA]

Problem is that buyers disagree with you both and they are the final judges.
Which buyers? The 20 million people that bought Windows Mobile devices last year?

Steve

[Pony99CA]

I go through that entire story to make this point: If Microsoft goes touch interface with 6.5, they need to go all the way and make it pervasive through the system. Doing so will probably require a touch screen highly optimized for finger input, perhaps even capacitive (a stylus will not work). Meaning there better be a physical keyboard on just about every device they make or people will be miserable trying to input text and see what's going on at the same time.
As I've said, there should be a touch-friendly mode and a stylus-friendly mode. I think you lose too much of Windows Mobile by getting rid of a stylus completely (http://thoughts.svpocketpc.com#THOUGHT_STYLUS_VS_FINGERS).

As for requiring a keyboard, it seems like millions of iPhone users don't seem to need this. (Not to say I wouldn't want a keyboard. I love having a keyboard on my Motorola Q9m.)

Steve

[Pony99CA]

I'm going to hold you to that. :D You're right, if Microsoft needs to break a few eggs to make the omelette that is Windows Mobile 7 have a completely different type of flavour, I hope people think like you do...
Wasn't one of the big complaints about Vista that too many programs were incompatible? Wasn't the same true of the XBox 360?

Ideally you can change enough to get things working better but not so much that everything breaks. If you don't have much invested in software, it's a moot point, but if you have a few hundred dollars invested (or a few thousand for a vertical market application), you want your investment protected.

Breaking most software will just make people more likely to look at the iPhone, Pre or Android.

Steve

[Fritzly]

Which buyers? The 20 million people that bought Windows Mobile devices last year?

Steve

Do not confuse licenses sold with units sold. Also what is MS position compared to the others players? And an even more important indicator: what is the trend?

Besides, the point is that MS had a chance to dominate the market, it missed it completely and now it is chasing the newcomers........ or at least trying to do it.

A lot of MS upper management seems to have some kind of inferiority complex toward the so called "Established business"; it seems they always want to be accepted by big companies and doing so they lost sight of a fundamental point: the smartphone is something you carry with you all day long, seven days a week, even whe you are not working....

[Pony99CA]

Do not confuse licenses sold with units sold. Also what is MS position compared to the others players? And an even more important indicator: what is the trend?
I don't believe that I did confuse licenses sold with units sold. The same things that I read that talked about 20 million "whatevers" sold also said that 11 different devices has sales of a million or more.

I believe 20 million devices sold would put Windows Mobile ahead of the iPhone (I have no idea about BlackBerry). I think they'd still be behind Symbian.

As for trends, unless it's a long term trend, who cares? "Trendy" isn't the same as long-lasting. Palm was trending down and, BAM, they show the Pre and get a lot of interest. WM is getting kicked around a lot, but who knows what will happen in Barcelona (or with WM 7).

Besides, the point is that MS had a chance to dominate the market, it missed it completely and now it is chasing the newcomers........ or at least trying to do it.
Agreed. I've said they rested on their laurels too long after "beating" Palm. I think the iPhone was a great wake-up call and Android was timely if Microsoft hit the snooze alarm. :)

A lot of MS upper management seems to have some kind of inferiority complex toward the so called "Established business"; it seems they always want to be accepted by big companies and doing so they lost sight of a fundamental point: the smartphone is something you carry with you all day long, seven days a week, even whe you are not working....
Maybe Microsoft gave their people business phones but told them they couldn't be used for personal calls, so those people did use two phones. :) But it seems obvious to me that phones are good for both business and pleasure (just like PCs, something Microsoft should have a little knowledge of). ;)

Steve