Apple Stores Demand ID In Violation of Merchant Agreement

[Vincent Ferrari]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://consumerist.com/5118341/apple-store-institutionalizes-merchant-agreement-violation-with-pretty-sign' target='_blank'>http://consumerist.com/5118341/appl...ith-pretty-sign</a><br /><br /></div><p><em>"Is Apple up to its old tricks again? More scandalous than your run-of-the-mill violation, it seems that Apple stores are now displaying a high-quality sign advertising their blatant ignorance of the Merchant Agreement. This is somewhat concerning - the sign appears to be the kind issued by corporate headquarters, not some two-bit hackjob scratched on the back of a memo by an ill-informed middle manager."</em></p><p><img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/600/at/auto/1230552738.usr18053.jpg" style="border: 1px solid #d2d2bb;" /></p><p>I don't get it.&nbsp; On one hand, I can understand the motivation behind it.&nbsp; On the other hand, it's a blatant and clear violation of the merchant agreement for Amex, Discover, VISA, and Mastercard.&nbsp; Seeing as the sign in the accompanying Consumerist article is obviously one produced in the corporate office, you have to wonder; do their lawyers even look at this stuff before it goes out?</p><p>Obviously, I won't tell you to make a big stink in a store and get yourself kicked out and look stupid, but you do not have to show ID ever for a credit card purchase.&nbsp; If you're asked for it and you show it just to get done, that's fine, but I recommend you going to your card issuer with a formal complaint.&nbsp; Being on the operations end of a retail-related business, I can tell you the card issuers don't take those complaints lightly.</p>

[doogald]

Holy mackerel, are you saying that a merchant is not ALLOWED to ask for an ID? Well, you SHOULD be required to show an ID with signature when you make a credit card purchase! The thing that is ridiculous is that a merchant must sign an agreement that prevents them from doing this!

[gmontielh]

I understand that during high shopping season they ask more often for it. I support they ask for ID as one (not the) measure for deterring ID theft. I am also surprise that merchants have to sign an agreement not to ask for it.

[Sven Johannsen]

Surprises the heck out of me too. I am often asked for ID when using a credit card. Doesn't bother me in the least to prove that I am in fact the one using MY credit card. Ought to be a requirement, not a prohibition. Seems to me it would be better to protect me, than the person pretending to be me, pointy foil hat conspiracy theories, not-withstanding.

[Vincent Ferrari]

Card companies do it out of convenience for the customer. In the end, the amount of fraud that was prevented when merchants used to ask wasn't high enough to warrant the annoyance factor of having to show off your ID. Secondly, there was a concern that in places like restaurants, merchants would walk off with your ID and credit card and thus create a situation ripe for ID theft.

Just tellin' you what they told me. Frankly, I don't give a rip one way or the other. My card companies are all easy to deal with and so far I've never lost a dime to credit card fraud (Thank you Bank of America and HSBC).

[alex_kac]

Personally I want all merchants to ask me for my credit card. It rarely happens that I'm surprised when they do. Apple always has checked my ID, though. Now at restaurants or anywhere where my CC is taken away from me, I don't want them having my ID at all.

So it depends.

And yes, I've lived through CC theft. My CC was never lost - always in my wallet. But one restaurant waiter copied it and used it. Thankfully my bank alerted me to it immediately.

[Phronetix]

Hmmm, so why is Apple being picked on here? What planet is the writer from?

Recently in SoCal, here is a list from memory of places that required my ID when making a CC purchase:
Disneyland
Limited
Limited 2
Gymboree
Orb Audio
Claimjumper Restaurant (they did not take it with them)
Thrifty Car Rental

Notable places that did not ask: Apple Store, South Coast Plaza, Costco. Of note, all purchases less than $50 did not require a signature in most cases.

Still, keep your ID with your cards, and show both. Everyone feels better. Tell the merchant whenever you notice they didn't check your signature against the card back.

Recently, I ordered flowers in another city, and was asked the 4 digit CVV code on my AMEX. This REALLY bothered me. I finally relented, but I was not impressed. I actually scratch the code off my card after committing it to memory, so that nobody else knows. Telling it to someone over the phone was a super irritant. I went ahead and let AMEX know. Not sure what came of that.

D

[Vincent Ferrari]

Hmmm, so why is Apple being picked on here? What planet is the writer from?

Recently in SoCal, here is a list from memory of places that required my ID when making a CC purchase:
Disneyland
Limited
Limited 2
Gymboree
Orb Audio
Claimjumper Restaurant (they did not take it with them)
Thrifty Car Rental

Notable places that did not ask: Apple Store, South Coast Plaza, Costco. Of note, all purchases less than $50 did not require a signature in most cases.

Depends on the processor that the merchant has an account with and the applicable state laws, although VISA and Amex in particular forbid it, so it's a mish-mosh of rules and laws (typical!). Starbucks, for example, doesn't even take my signature when they swipe my card.

[Cybrid]

Surprises the heck out of me too. I am often asked for ID when using a credit card. Doesn't bother me in the least to prove that I am in fact the one using MY credit card. Ought to be a requirement, not a prohibition. Seems to me it would be better to protect me, than the person pretending to be me, pointy foil hat conspiracy theories, not-withstanding.
Sven, I respect your opinion greatly but in this, I disagree.

While it seems like a good idea. It in reality solves nothing. As part of a retail drug store manager. I've seen/done multiple things

Kids forging parent's signatures. (Dad would send me to do his shopping. "It's under my middle name." ;D One lady even called for authorization and I got on the phone and answered all the "grandma's maiden name" & "D.O.B." and "last three digits of the Social Insurance Number". I'm suprised that the guy couldn't tell the difference in a 16 year old and 48 year old's voice... Heck I've even bought booze on his card while under age.)
Cashier's aren't handwriting experts and half the time don't even look. You could sign their name and it wouldn't be noticed until you as the card holder contested it. No wonder they don't even require signatures for small purchases anymore.
The real threat/ highest shrink issue is cloned cards. Skim/clone the magnetic swipe and card you clone it to could have my picture/ fake name / anything. I've seen some really good fakes. Just like fake bills, they'd pass casual notice. If a cashier rushes through the transaction...it's all it would take.

Showing your ID does nothing.

[Sven Johannsen]

Showing your ID does nothing.
Well, I think the potential that it might be asked for, and actually looked at for name/picture, would require a casual thief to clone/steal/fake that as well as the credit card. I think they should encode retinal scans on the card and merchantys should have scanners to verify your identity ;)

[doogald]

Showing your ID does nothing.

If it saves one idiot from buying a $2000 computer at the Apple Store, I am all for it. And the credit card companies and retailers who sell expensive stuff should be as well. If Apple sells an expensive item and it turns out to be on a stolen credit card, do they get paid by the credit card company, or is it insurance? Do they get their 3% credit card processing fee back?

[Jason Dunn]

I don't mind at all showing my ID when making a retail purchase - I think more places should do it. I'm not comfortable with a waiter walking off with it at a restaurant though - every place should be moving to mobile processing machines so they can do everything they need right then and there.

My new VISA card uses a PIN number now, though 80% of the machines don't support it yet.

[Cybrid]

Well, I think the potential that it might be asked for, and actually looked at for name/picture, would require a casual thief to clone/steal/fake that as well as the credit card. I think they should encode retinal scans on the card and merchantys should have scanners to verify your identity ;)Ok. This is ahold up. I want your keys, watch, wallet, eyeball. :( You are right it might stop a casual thief, but from what I see loss-wise...probably a fraction of a percent.

[Cybrid]

If it saves one idiot from buying a $2000 computer at the Apple Store, I am all for it. And the credit card companies and retailers who sell expensive stuff should be as well. If Apple sells an expensive item and it turns out to be on a stolen credit card, do they get paid by the credit card company, or is it insurance? Do they get their 3% credit card processing fee back?As long as there is a signature, the credit companies bite the bullet on it. We verify the card number on the receipt to the cards to stop some of the skim cards but this mostly to prevent dealing with signature verification requests from becoming a full time job for my supervisors.

PIN A pin will mitigate some but since every morning my cashiers are forced to check pinpad serial #'s to prevent skimmers from swapping in modified pads...Debit cards get cloned too.

OT: Is our quest for a better mousetrap breeding smarter mice? :D

[Vincent Ferrari]

OT: Is our quest for a better mousetrap breeding smarter mice? :D

No joke; I was just thinking that same exact thing!

[jdmichal]

OT: Is our quest for a better mousetrap breeding smarter mice? :D

I don't think this is off-topic at all. As far as I'm concerned, this is no different than any other realm in information security. Which is to say, it's impossible to make 100% secure. (By that, I mean it's not logically impossible, but definitely so cost-prohibitive that no company can ever implement it.)

Right now asking for IDs only works because asking for IDs is not the norm. If it were to be the norm, no person would try to use a stolen credit card without some sort of backing ID. And a survey of any American college campus would yield a very basic fact: It is not exactly difficult nor costly to get a fake ID. So basically, as far as I'm concerned, this policy would do nothing but extend the viable business range for fake ID creators from near college campuses to across the US.

Think about the fact that there's waiters and waitresses that have been caught with skimmers. It's clear that those mice have clearly gotten smarter. If you require ID, they'll simply get an ID scanner attachment for their credit card skimmer. Give the information from the scan to someone who creates fake IDs, and wham-bam-thankyoumam problem solved.

EDIT: A little over-zealous in my quote chopping...