REDFLY Mobile Companion for $199

[Pete Paxton]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.getredfly.com/products/products.asp?category=3&subcategory=4' target='_blank'>http://www.getredfly.com/products/p...3&subcategory=4</a><br /><br /></div><p><em>"Celio has found that a REDFLY device in the hands of media, developers or mobile enthusiasts has tremendous viral marketing benefit. Therefore, we have budgeted a limited amount* of REDFLY devices for placement at $199 until October 31, 2008."</em></p><p><img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/600/spt/auto/1222407502.usr11642.jpg" /></p><p>Now this is more like it. Remember the Redfly? It's a wireless smartphone terminal with a large screen and full keyboard with no OS, no CPU, and no storage. The Redfly wirelessly attaches to your smartphone and lets you read and write email, read attachments, view web sites, and use applications that reside on your smartphone. It is normally priced at around $500.00 which I thought was a bit expensive considering I purchased my 20 gig Asus EEE for $349 with an 8.9" screen. But I have to admit for $199 the Redfly is an attractive option for those who want to turn their PDA into more of a laptop. Do any of you use the Redfly? If so, do you like it? If you're in the market to buy one, do it by October 31st.</p>

[Pony99CA]

I saw this news item yesterday and am definitely considering getting one for my Motorola Q9m. The biggest problem that I have with the Q9m is reading the display while using IE Mobile (the font sizes don't get large enough), and this might make things easier.

I was considering carrying my laptop to work every day, but I'd rather take the RedFly because it's probably quite a bit lighter and, if it gets stolen, my data will still be with my phone. It will also put less wear and tear on my laptop.

However, at the original price, there's no way I would buy it. At $200, I just might bite.

Steve

[onlydarksets]

Yea, I'm just not getting the value proposition. However, I do understand that they started this project before the netbook craze. Still, I think netbooks have rendered this device moot at the price point they are going for.

[Jason Lee]

I really want one of these... But with the way the price has dropped, how much longer will the company be around? Will this work with my next device? Or am I just throwing $199 out the window only to use it for the next few months?

Hmm...

[Pony99CA]

I really want one of these... But with the way the price has dropped, how much longer will the company be around? Will this work with my next device? Or am I just throwing $199 out the window only to use it for the next few months?
Their claim is that this isn't really a price drop; they're just extending their "Seed Program" price to basically everybody for a little over a month.

Maybe they'll see tons of sales at this price and the volume will make up for the price cut (as long as they're still making money at $200). That's what I'm hoping, at least. :)

Steve

[kdarling]

At this price, I bought one immediately. Will get another for a friend if it works well.

[onlydarksets]

Can someone explain the benefit of this over the cheapest of the netbooks? The size of the unit is about the same as the netbooks, but you don't get the benefits of the full OS on the laptop or the extra storage space.

I read the (two (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013KLJ1K/sr=8-1/qid=1222466287/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&qid=1222466287&sr=8-1&seller=)) reviews at Amazon, and the only benefits I see is battery life and there is zero maintenance (i.e., you don't have to rebuild the OS, since there isn't one).

[bradinvancouver]

I would think the main advantage is for those with unlimited data plans - no need to tether and no need for wifi connection. I can definitely see the use of this although if you had one of the new wvga smartphones with bluetooth mouse and keyboard, the only possible advantage would be physical screen size.

[r@dimus]

At a price of $199, it's sort of like buying a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse for your PPC and getting a big LCD screen for free, but the lack of all the maintenance that goes into a normal laptop or netbook is the biggest benefit. You don't have to worry about keeping it patched, whether you left any important data on it if it gets stolen or left behind, etc etc. In a corporate environment that also means you're not managing another software image, licenses, performing additional compatibility tests, security configs, GPO's, etc etc.

Too bad they don't have a drive for a Dell X51v or the new HP iPaqs.

[onlydarksets]

I hadn't thought of it from the enterprise perspective - that makes sense, although
$199 isn't their permanent pricing. Maybe it's not going back to $500, but even if the cost is equal between the two, it's a lot for what is, as you say, essentially a BT keyboard and VGA out.

I do see some marginal value in not having to maintain another OS, but IMO the benefit of the extra features far outweighs the burden.

I guess this is a product that I just don't see being successful unless they cut the price pretty significantly.

[r@dimus]

IIRC from the launch, Celio was primarily pushing this towards enterprise customers. In the enterprise, the cost of buying a computer is usually the least important cost. The costs of managing it are far greater. That little $350 EeePC can easily end up costing a company a couple thousand a year in licensing and management costs. The only management costs associated with a Redfly is whatever is needed for asset tracking, if even.

For the consumer market I would agree that the Redfly doesn't make a lot of sense. Even in the enterprise I'm afraid there is a limited application for it. Office Mobile on the PPC is too limited for a lot of what people do with MS Office. You can get around that with SoftMaker Office, but now you're possibly looking at training non-technical users on how to use another office suite. In a lot of cases I think it is probably more productive to just give the non-technical road warrior a laptop of some kind running XP and MS Office and a way to connect back to office. The TCO for the laptop is higher, but the Redfly could potentialy bring training and compatibility issues. That's my take on it, anyway.

[onlydarksets]

Thanks for the insights - my only experience in the enterprise is as an end-user.

[Pony99CA]

I hadn't thought of it from the enterprise perspective - that makes sense, although $199 isn't their permanent pricing. Maybe it's not going back to $500, but even if the cost is equal between the two, it's a lot for what is, as you say, essentially a BT keyboard and VGA out.
Actually, it's not a BT keyboard and VGA out. It's a BT keyboard, LCD monitor and (limited) USB hub. It's more like a docking station/monitor for your PDA, and some docking stations for laptops cost $200 (without a monitor).

I do see some marginal value in not having to maintain another OS, but IMO the benefit of the extra features far outweighs the burden.
Again, forget about maintenance. Read my post above. It seems like a good middle ground where your phone's appllications are enough to do what you want, but the screen and keyboard aren't productive enough.

Or read the customer testimonials (http://www.celiocorp.com/testimonials/) and business uses (http://www.celiocorp.com/content/?page=solutions) at their site. ;)

If you take your laptop everywhere you go, though, I agree that this probably wouldn't be useful.

I guess this is a product that I just don't see being successful unless they cut the price pretty significantly.
They did cut it once, I believe, from $500 to $400. And now, for a limited time, they've in essence cut it again. As I said, if the product takes off at $200, maybe they'll keep it priced there.

Steve

[onlydarksets]

Again, forget about maintenance. Read my post above. It seems like a good middle ground where your phone's appllications are enough to do what you want, but the screen and keyboard aren't productive enough.

Or read the customer testimonials (http://www.celiocorp.com/testimonials/) and business uses (http://www.celiocorp.com/content/?page=solutions) at their site. ;)


Interesting, thanks! Most of those testimonials line up with the usage r@dimus outlined.

If you take your laptop everywhere you go, though, I agree that this probably wouldn't be useful.

That's my point - unless you consider the enterprise maintenance costs, it's about the same cost as a netbook, which you can just as easily take anywhere you could take this.

They did cut it once, I believe, from $500 to $400. And now, for a limited time, they've in essence cut it again. As I said, if the product takes off at $200, maybe they'll keep it priced there.

Steve
As I said, this is a temporary price cut (according to their website). The purpose is to generate buzz by getting people to buy it. All of my statements were assuming the old price point. If it's less expensive than a netbook, then I think they can gain traction.

[Pony99CA]

That's my point - unless you consider the enterprise maintenance costs, it's about the same cost as a netbook, which you can just as easily take anywhere you could take this.
I think you're forgetting about a few points.

If you might store important data on a Netbook (if only in the browser cache), and that got stolen, that could be bad (unless they encrypt the storage). If a RedFly gets stolen, you're only out the hardware (assuming you take your phone with you when you leave the RedFly alone). That's a pretty big plus.

Also, how many netbooks come with cellular data plans? WiFi is nice, but will be useless in many places. As the RedFly works with your phone, if the phone has a data plan, you're good to go. A PC would either need to be tethered (an extra cost option with some carriers) or need a cellular data card (at an additional monthly cost).

Finally, as you mentioned, the RedFly might have better battery life.

Those could all be important to many users.

As I said, this is a temporary price cut (according to their website). The purpose is to generate buzz by getting people to buy it.
Pete's original post mentioned that it was temporary and meant as a viral marketing effort. (I also quoted something about the "Seed Program".) So we knew that it was temporary and what its purpose was.

All of my statements were assuming the old price point. If it's less expensive than a netbook, then I think they can gain traction.
But both Pete and you mentioned the $500 dollar price. As I pointed out, they had dropped it to $400. (The Web site even says, "Now you can own REDFLY at 50% off the MRSP of $399 for a limited time.") I consider a 20% price cut "pretty significant" (although, to be honest, I wouldn't consider the RedFly even at $400).

Remember that lots of people say "Why spend $700 (or whatever) on a smart phone when you can get a laptop for less?" As you seem to have a smart phoen, I assume you can see the difference in intended audiences and usages; if they can't, that's their problem, right? This is a similar situation, I think.

Finally, who cares if the $200 price is temporary? That $200 is in the price range I'd consider paying. If you don't think your usage justifies even that, that's cool -- different strokes and all. :) But, if you think $200 is a fair deal, why not buy one? Would you not buy a $100,000 Porsche for $40,000 just because the price cut was temporary? :D

Steve

[onlydarksets]

But both Pete and you mentioned the $500 dollar price. As I pointed out, they had dropped it to $400. (The Web site even says, "Now you can own REDFLY at 50% off the MRSP of $399 for a limited time.") I consider a 20% price cut "pretty significant" (although, to be honest, I wouldn't consider the RedFly even at $400).

Remember that lots of people say "Why spend $700 (or whatever) on a smart phone when you can get a laptop for less?" As you seem to have a smart phoen, I assume you can see the difference in intended audiences and usages; if they can't, that's their problem, right? This is a similar situation, I think.

Finally, who cares if the $200 price is temporary? That $200 is in the price range I'd consider paying. If you don't think your usage justifies even that, that's cool -- different strokes and all. :) But, if you think $200 is a fair deal, why not buy one? Would you not buy a $100,000 Porsche for $40,000 just because the price cut was temporary? :D

Steve
Really, I'm not disagreeing with you. However, I think we're talking about different things. I believe your point is that there is a valid use for the Redfly, and I fully agree. My point is that the netbook overlaps most of that market (and does it for less), which affects Redfly's viability.

Most people, I think, would look at this and say "For $400 I can get a keyboard and LCD and extra storage (that I have to purchase separately) for my phone, or for $350 I can get a complete laptop in the same form factor. I'll take more for less, thanks!" Again, I'm not saying there isn't a market, but I'm not sure it's sustainable now that netbooks are priced less than the Redfly.

If Celio keeps the $200 price point, then I think they've carved out a space. At $400, I just don't see them generating the sales they need. The only exception to this is the maintenance costs that r@dimus mentioned (TCO and security, which you also mentioned).

[Pony99CA]

Most people, I think, would look at this and say "For $400 I can get a keyboard and LCD and extra storage (that I have to purchase separately) for my phone, or for $350 I can get a complete laptop in the same form factor. I'll take more for less, thanks!" Again, I'm not saying there isn't a market, but I'm not sure it's sustainable now that netbooks are priced less than the Redfly.
I'm not really disagreeing with you. At $400, I wouldn't buy a RedFly, but I might not be the target market, either. I think there is a market, but I do wonder if it's big enough at $400 to keep Celio in business. (Of course, I suspect they've done marketing surveys and pricing studies to justify the price, but they probably did that for $500 and still cut the price.)

I'm hoping that they're making a profit at $200 and good volume will allow them to keep that price. And, even if they don't keep the $200, maybe they could find a happy medium.

I'm not sure what the most I'd pay is, but I doubt it's over $300. I might go for $250. What would your maximum price be?

Steve

[onlydarksets]

My price is well below $200, but that's because I don't personally have a use for this over a netbook. I'll probably get a netbook in the next year, once the dual-core Atoms come down in price (once you go dual-core...).

[Jason Lee]

The Redfly is so perfect for me. I have wanted one since they were announced almost a year ago. It is exactly what I need. But I really couldn't justify the price. Well I could, if i added up the cost to buy each of Redfly's functions as seperate products. Some of which you cannot buy. But I didn't want to spend that much. $500 or $400. Just too much. I wanted one so bad though. When this sale was announced I thought about it fo 3 days and finally made the leap. I purchaced one Friday night.

$199 is just too good a deal for what you get. A few years ago I spent $99 on a bluetooth mouse and $75 for a bluetooth keyboard for my old iPaq. What am I getting now?
-Bluetooth mouse
-Bluetooth keyboard
-VGA out card (don't know if they even make those in microSD yet)
-8 hour external battery to power/recharge my phone
-USB host support! (I don't think there is a microSD one of those either)
-a portable, high resolition LCD monitor that actually enlarges the resolution of my screen not just displays QVGA with really big icons.

Try buying each of those seperatly... If you could at all. So in that respect the Redfly is actually quite a deal at $399.

Now, when you talk about Redfly vs a netbook. What would I do on a netbook?
-Browse the web
-check email
-carry it out into the field to telnet into network equipment at work

It really isn't powerful enough to do much else. I don't use Office much and when I do I actually do most of it on my phone. I know it sounds weird but for what I ned to do the UI is much simpler and easy to use in Windows Mobile. Word Mobile has all the functionality I ever use plus I can carry my document with me and work on it when I get a free moment.
90% of the time I check my email and browse the web from my phone. I am typing this from the built-in keyboard on my TyTN II right now.
Same for general Outlook usage. I hate desktop Outlook. I actually create all of my appointments, tasks, and such using my phone. Again, the UI is much easier to use. I find it overly complex to enter data into Outlook. So many tabs and text boxes.. WM gives it to me on one screen all in a nice colum.

Anyway.. Drifting off topic.
I already have a laptop, duel core and all that. Very powerful, plays games.
I never take it with me when I go on vacation, only my phone. Why would I want to buy an extremely under powered laptop that is only really capable of doing the exact same things I already do (and prefer to do) on my phone?

This is just my usage pattern though and my reasoning behind purchasing one. I am truly serious when I tell people that my phone is my primary computer. I only use my desktop (actually laptop at the moment) to back it up and play World of Warcraft on. That is it.

So for me Redfly is amazing. :D

[Farmer Ted]

Howdy,

I've got a quick question about the redfly. Does anyone know if it can be used with an older PPC? I've got an Asus MyPal (a716) that runs windows 2003. It has bluetooth, but I'd probably just connect with a usb cable to save the power (and be able to use the built in wi-fi, which can't be used at the same time as the BT). I checked out the redfly website, and they just list a bunch of newer phones that they've checked out. Is there any good reason that it won't work with an old PPC (at least using a usb cable)? I could really use something like this at conferences, and in a year or so I'll probably upgrade to a newer phone, so it would be nice to invest in something I can use down the road.

Thanks.

[Jason Lee]

I doubt that your device will work for several reasons. There was a drastic change in the core OS between Pocket PC 2003 and Windows Mobile 5. Most new programs just won't work on 2003 unless the developer goes out of his/her way to make it backwards compatible or to just make a totally seperate version for 2003. The programing architecture just changed too much.

Secondly, Redfly does some kind of device check when installing the drivers. I tried to install them on my Cingular 8125 runing WM5 and they refused to install. These drivers seem to be VERY device specific. If your device is not in the list it probably will not work.
You could try downloading the descktop installer and try installing it on your device. On my old device they just right out refused to install.

You could also try contacting the company and inqure about support for your device. I know they have several beta versions for some devices.

[Farmer Ted]

Thanks, it sounds like you just saved me 200 clams.