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View Full Version : Rumor: Windows Mobile 7 Delayed


Rocco Augusto
09-23-2008, 05:30 PM
<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/09/23/windows-mobile-7-pushed-back-to-second-half-of-2009/' target='_blank'>http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/...d-half-of-2009/</a><br /><br /></div><p><em>"Good thing nobody's working on anything right now in the smartphone space, or this could be really bad news for Microsoft, whose current version of Windows Mobile lost the technology and usability edge a while ago, and is being bandaged up by the likes of HTC to keep the OS relevant to consumers. According to CNET, some of Microsoft's partners in the space are claiming that the upcoming Windows Mobile 7 has been pushed back to the second half of 2009, instead of the "early next year" they'd been expecting. Microsoft has yet to make a formal announcement about the release date of the OS or the specific feature set, so we can't exactly point our fingers and laugh, but we'd say crying big, mobile OS tears into our morning cereal is certainly appropriate."</em></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/600/zt/auto/1222187646.usr8.jpg" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>At the moment I wouldn't consider this anything more than an Internet rumor since we never had a set date from Microsoft to begin with, but to be completely honest I really didn't expect to see Windows Mobile 7 hit the mainstream the latter half of 2009. When you look at the time it took between the release of every previous version of Windows Mobile and the amount of time it took device manufactures to update existing devices or even release new handsets with the latest and greatest operating system, it has been pretty close to laughable. Even if they announced something today, we wouldn&rsquo;t see widespread saturation of new handsets until close to summer of next year. Seeing as how Microsoft is continuing to be incredibly tight lipped on the subject it is only logical to assume Windows Mobile 7 is still nowhere ready for the limelight. <br /><br />The good news is that since Microsoft is taking so long to announce anything and it has been so many years since we have had a real update to the operating system - homescreen plugins don&rsquo;t count - there is a good chance that Windows Mobile 7 will be the mythical merging of platforms that we have heard about in the past. Hopefully we won't have to wait too long to find out.</p>

Paragon
09-23-2008, 06:34 PM
I'm not so sure this delay is all that significant. Personally I don't see the future of Windows Mobile resting on Microsoft's hands as much as I see it resting with OEMs such as HTC. It is the OEMs who are making all the advancements in the UI of the devices they develop. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Microsoft completely merge their Windows Mobile team with the CE team and offer an OS with a basic GUI and the manufactures then continue to develop their own interfaces as they are beginning to do now. Let's face it, up till a couple of years ago one Windows Mobile device wasn't much different from another with the same OS and GUI...very boring. NOw we are seeing lots of different UI's, giving the platform a lot more variety.

Dave

stevew
09-23-2008, 06:59 PM
As much as I'd like to see it, I don't think Microsoft is going to "WOW" us with WM7. Sure they'll make PIE respectable and maybe one or two other conversation worthy improvements but I'm not expecting much more.

With Microsofts past WM development why should we?

Janak Parekh
09-23-2008, 07:48 PM
NOw we are seeing lots of different UI's, giving the platform a lot more variety. ... and platform fragmentation, which I'm not convinced is a good thing. It's one step forward, two steps back.

--janak

alese
09-23-2008, 08:29 PM
I hope the rumor turns out to be wrong. If they will need another year to get WM7 out then it would be better to just stop the development now and leave the mobile space to others - a year from now WM will be just another Palm - no one will care anymore...

And after all, what incredible stuff could they possibly be doing to take this long, Apple and Google both developed and released their systems from scratch and Microsoft needs 4 years to do the real upgrade of their already existing OS, that is actually just an UI built on top of an allready released OS...

Pony99CA
09-23-2008, 10:12 PM
At the moment I wouldn't consider this anything more than an Internet rumor since we never had a set date from Microsoft to begin with, but to be completely honest I really didn't expect to see Windows Mobile 7 hit the mainstream the latter half of 2009.
While Microsoft may not have stated an official date (maybe they're finally listening after Vista), didn't HTC say there would be a WM 7 device in early 2009? While they aren't Microsoft, they're the company who will actually be creating the device, which gives them fairly high credibility, I think.

Steve

peterawest
09-23-2008, 10:26 PM
Hmmm....

Windows 7 is planned to replace Windows Vista (maybe in 2009)...

Windows Mobile 7 is planned to replace 6.x (maybe in 2009)...

Maybe they're trying to tie the two together!

Ha! Ha!

nmcclana
09-24-2008, 12:50 AM
Maybe it's about OEM's. Especially when it comes to the form factor. But there are some very core problems to WM6 that can't be blamed / solved by OEM's.

Competition has really demonstrated the flaws of WM. Look at the media player for WM - WMP is a total joke. The HTC version is a step up, but are missing basic features like 'VIDEO'. OS upgrades & patches come out like once a year, or just never. Very few WM devices feature video acceleration, so most games are quite basic. I can't actually 'turn my phone off'. The list goes on.

I guess the only thing that upsets me is how MSFT takes a lot of time and effort building an ecosystem - Developers, OEM's, websites like this one, software vendors, etc, and proceeds to leave them hanging.

It does seem that the 'pre-phone' mobile Os'es have had a painful transition, doesn't it?

bnycastro
09-24-2008, 03:20 AM
For me, Microsoft delaying WM7 to mid 2009 would be acceptable provided they IMPROVE / FIX existing features first and add NEW STUFF later.
--
1. Internet Explorer Mobile
2. Media Player - add podcast support [also on the desktop version please!] and make it more efficient it just chows down on RAM like there's no tomorrow.
3. MMS - it's 2008 and MMS is still not native to the mobile OS?
4. Windows Update - either use it or scrap it...
5. Lock down resolutions and help authors/developers write apps that are compatible across ALL the resolutions. Here is my suggestion.
scrap 176x220
scrap 240x240
min 240x320 [for wm std/classic/pro]
scrap 320x320
mid 480x640 [for wm classic/pro]
scrap 480x800
max 960x1280 [for wm classic/pro/wince etc etc]
6. Merge WM std and pro.
7. Office Mobile - add ability to create and edit PowerPoint files improve Word, Excel and OneNote
--
Basically MS should fix the core of their OS, yes 3rd party apps are available but the basic Messaging, Browsing, Multimedia on each device should be solid out of the box. This is crucial for new users to become returning users and hopefully long time users of the platform.

Rocco Augusto
09-24-2008, 07:20 AM
... and platform fragmentation, which I'm not convinced is a good thing. It's one step forward, two steps back.

--janak

This is how I feel as well. Manufactures should have to create brand spanking new UI's to make the operating system exciting again. This is something that Microsoft should address with the next release and was hinted at for Photon.

I don't thinking of the long wait, but I'm a little excited for the next version of Windows if they really do go through with merging the platforms. :)

Rocco Augusto
09-24-2008, 07:23 AM
While they aren't Microsoft, they're the company who will actually be creating the device, which gives them fairly high credibility, I think.

Steve

I don't remember the details of the story and I can't find it at the moment, but I'm pretty sure someone stated they hoped to have a device out and then a roadmap surfaced with an expected 2008/2009 WM7 device. I could be off though, its late and I can't find the original story :)

Rocco Augusto
09-24-2008, 07:40 AM
Maybe they're trying to tie the two together!

This is actually something I have secretly thought about a bit in my head. Maybe WM7 won't be related in code, but there was something about one of Mary Jo Foley's ZDNet articles a while back about Windows 7 made me constantly think of Windows Mobile 7 as I read through the article.

The article was about Windows 7 being componentized and users being able to pick and choose which features they wanted to be apart of the Windows environment and download them seperately using an interface similar to Windows Update. Kind of like a more advanced upon idea of the Windows Live by moving applications that have been bundled for years with Windows outside of the code base making a generic Windows install smaller and cleaner and keeping everyone happy that complains about their bundling.

For some reason the idea of them building Windows Mobile 7 in the same way really excites me and is actually very similar to what Google is doing with Android - being able to download the apps you want and having a kind of device profile so if you lose your phone they can be restored to the new device as easily as logging in to your Google account.

There are a ton of ways in wich Microsoft can really innovate or reinvigorate the Windows Mobile landscape. They have made some mistakes in the past and spent way to much time focusing on the boring business aspect instead of the fun consumer aspect, but with the release of new and exciting devices from Apple and Google, Microsoft has no choice but to step up and do something fun and exciting.

alcedes78
09-24-2008, 01:30 PM
For me, Microsoft delaying WM7 to mid 2009 would be acceptable provided they IMPROVE / FIX existing features first and add NEW STUFF later.

Windows Mobile isn't released to OEMs as an operating system. It is released as a kit for building an operating system image. While there are certain base components that are required for the most part the OEM can choose to include or exclude the optional components as they see fit. Unlike the PC which is fairly standard and capable of running a generic OS image for WM devices the OS image is specific to the device. That excludes MS from being able to push out updates for certain OS components. Before an update can work it's way to a user the OEM has to decide to add the update to an OS image and a carrier will usually need to approve an update going out to a user. If either party has no interest in an update the user will never see it.

For details see the Windows Mobile Team Blog:
http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2005/10/06/477999.aspx



5. Lock down resolutions and help authors/developers write apps that are compatible across ALL the resolutions. Here is my suggestion.
scrap 176x220


The .Net framework actually has some built in features that can do a lot of the work required to support different resolutions for the developer. Microsoft did a live webcast on it last week. http://tinyurl.com/5xgjr6

alcedes78
09-24-2008, 01:40 PM
The article was about Windows 7 being componentized and users being able to pick and choose which features they wanted to be apart of the Windows environment and download them seperately using an interface similar to Windows Update.

That is consistent (thought not identical to ) how Windows 2008 works. Once can install or remove components to cater to the server's intended functionality and to enforce security policies. Though with Windows 2008 the components are coming from the disc, not the Internet. The Windows 2008 components in some cases are for some pretty low level functionality (ex: WiFi won't work unless you install the WiFi component).

Janak Parekh
09-24-2008, 07:30 PM
Windows Mobile isn't released to OEMs as an operating system. It is released as a kit for building an operating system image. While there are certain base components that are required for the most part the OEM can choose to include or exclude the optional components as they see fit. Unlike the PC which is fairly standard and capable of running a generic OS image for WM devices the OS image is specific to the device. That excludes MS from being able to push out updates for certain OS components. Yes, and that's exactly what a lot of people have argued is broken, as it weakens WM's brand considerably if you don't get a uniform experience across devices and carriers. Moreover, Microsoft has actually yielded more control to the OEMs in the last few years. Earlier versions of WM did not have nearly so much modular flexibility, plus Microsoft was able to issue standardized updates (i.e., the EUUs, or End User Updates, back in the '02 days, were identical for all devices and user-installable).

--janak

Pony99CA
09-24-2008, 10:16 PM
Competition has really demonstrated the flaws of WM. Look at the media player for WM - WMP is a total joke.
I disagree. The biggest issues I have are that it doesn't support user codecs and that playlist editing was removed (although I hear it's back again, and there was freeware available to edit playlists anyway).

Very few WM devices feature video acceleration, so most games are quite basic.
But that's an OEM issue, not a core OS issue.

I can't actually 'turn my phone off'.
I can. I press and hold the End key on my Motorola Q9m and it goes off.

I think this may be a difference between Pocket PC Phone/WM Professional and Smartphone/WM Standard. And it makes some sense, because you couldn't turn Pocket PC/WM Classic devices off, either.

Personally, I don't see why people would want to turn the device off most of the time. Doing so means you don't get reminders, defeating one of the major features of smart phones. If you don't want calls, turn the phone's radio off.

The only time I turn my phone off is if the battery is very low, I may want to make a call later and I'm not near a charger.

I guess the only thing that upsets me is how MSFT takes a lot of time and effort building an ecosystem - Developers, OEM's, websites like this one, software vendors, etc, and proceeds to leave them hanging.
I don't think Microsoft built the ecosystem as much as you do -- developers came because it was cool, Web sites popped up because fans wanted to share stuff (although I believe Microsoft did pay to start Smartphone Thoughts, but that seems to be the exception, not the rule).

It does seem that the 'pre-phone' mobile Os'es have had a painful transition, doesn't it?
Not really. Until the iPhone and Android, WM was probably considered one of the top two or three (if not the top) smart phone operating systems (BlackBerry and Symbian being the others).

Steve

Pony99CA
09-24-2008, 10:22 PM
Yes, and that's exactly what a lot of people have argued is broken, as it weakens WM's brand considerably if you don't get a uniform experience across devices and carriers.
And OEMs adding shells to pretty up Windows Mobile aren't doing it a favor, either.

As Rocco said, Microsoft should be doing the UI innovations. Too bad they're so slow at it. :(

Steve

Pony99CA
09-24-2008, 10:43 PM
Let me give my spin on your suggestions.... ;)

1. Internet Explorer Mobile
Of course. However, the only two issues I really have are the lack of tabbed browsing and the limited zoom range (even set to maximum, I need a magnifier to read most Web pages).

I'd also like the ability to search on a page and view the source.

2. Media Player - add podcast support [also on the desktop version please!] and make it more efficient it just chows down on RAM like there's no tomorrow.
As mentioned above, user codecs would be my biggest request. I don't think I've ever listened to a podcast. (I tried one once on my Q9m, but it was so big I couldn't download it.)

3. MMS - it's 2008 and MMS is still not native to the mobile OS?
MMS isn't standard across carriers, is it?

Personally, I think MMS pretty much stinks anyway. E-mail in HTML or with attachments should handle most things in the future.

4. Windows Update - either use it or scrap it...
I think carriers are the bottleneck here. There's no need to scrap it, though.

5. Lock down resolutions and help authors/developers write apps that are compatible across ALL the resolutions. Here is my suggestion.
scrap 176x220
scrap 240x240
min 240x320 [for wm std/classic/pro]
scrap 320x320
mid 480x640 [for wm classic/pro]
scrap 480x800
max 960x1280 [for wm classic/pro/wince etc etc]

Maybe getting rid of 176x220 is OK now, but eliminating the rest kills a bunch of current devices. (And you forgot 480x480, which nobody has ever used as far as I know. :))

I also think it's time to support 24-bit color depth before supporting higher resolutions like 960x1280.

6. Merge WM std and pro.
I partially agree in two areas. First, the two platforms should have the same level of applications (the Smartphone Tasks shouldn't be emasculated, for example). Second, the two systems should support the same APIs as much as possible, so that programs can be easily written to work on both platforms.

However, I'm not sure completely merging the user interfaces would be a good thing. For example, I don't think adding soft keys to WM Classic (the basic Pocket PC OS) was really an improvement over menu and tool bars. WM Classic devices don't have hardware softkey buttons, so the user doesn't really gain anything by having them.

7. Office Mobile - add ability to create and edit PowerPoint files improve Word, Excel and OneNote
Sure, but they improved Word and Excel a lot since WM 2003 days. Personally, i don't use them enough to notice, though.

One thing that you didn't mention is more flexible alarms. This means both an improved Alarms program (as many as I want, customizable events, etc.) and more snooze options (including user-specified ones like Handheld PCs had).

Steve

BlackDiamond
09-25-2008, 09:43 AM
but to be completely honest I really didn't expect to see Windows Mobile 7 hit the mainstream the latter half of 2009.How can you say that though you never had any information about about WM7?

Me and I think everyone else here is irritated by this statement from you.

Rocco Augusto
09-26-2008, 12:00 AM
How can you say that though you never had any information about about WM7?

Me and I think everyone else here is irritated by this statement from you.

Last thing I was trying to do was irritate anyone but history has shown us that with the last few Windows Mobile releases, information starts to slowly trickle out around this time and the end of the year. We then get an official announcement from Microsoft. A few months later we start to see release roadmaps from manufactures and then a few months after that we start to see widespread saturation of the new OS in the mobile market either in the form of new devices or upgrades to existing most recently released handsets.

I would love to see this process cleaned up and for releases to get in the hands of consumers faster but until we hear something official from Microsoft we can only speculate on the release due to their previous actions. :o

Twain
09-27-2008, 05:48 PM
I think Rocco's comment is right on the money. Anyone who is irritated by his statement is living in a world of hope, dreams and wishful thinking and is ignoring the history of Windows Mobile updates, upgrades, etc. My first hint that a release of devices with Windows Mobile 7 will be around the corner, is when I see a Windows Mobile 7 SDK. Ask yourself, what is usual span of time between the appearance of a new SDK (even in beta form) and the appearance of new devices based on that OS? Hmm?

Pony99CA
09-29-2008, 11:59 PM
I think Rocco's comment is right on the money. Anyone who is irritated by his statement is living in a world of hope, dreams and wishful thinking and is ignoring the history of Windows Mobile updates, upgrades, etc. My first hint that a release of devices with Windows Mobile 7 will be around the corner, is when I see a Windows Mobile 7 SDK.
I think that you missed the point. Various sites and people taking the "How can you be upset about a delay when nothing has been announced yet?" side are basically pretending the WM 7 doesn't exist yet. I think that's what's upsetting people.

However, Microsoft has mentioned it, Microsoft internal documents showing an early version were leaked and an OEM discussed when devices would be available containing it. I know it exists, you know it exists, so why pretend that the schedule doesn't matter?

Just because it hasn't been announced or you haven't seen an SDK doesn't mean that Microsoft didn't have an internal schedule or that an SDK isn't available at least internally yet. So the release could well have slipped.

In addition, worries about the supposed slippage are only compounded by the release (or near release) of the iPhone 3g, BlackBerry Bold/Storm/Kickflip and T-Mobile G1. It's not so much about when WM 7 devices will actually be available, it's that Microsoft doesn't appear to have the necessary sense of urgency.

Steve

Twain
10-01-2008, 05:43 AM
Pony99CA,
</br>I guess I'm just not buying into the hype.
</br>As a consumer of Windows Mobile devices, I used to wait breathlessly for each and every version of Windows Mobile from the very first "Pegasus" version up to the time that Microsoft introduced the Smartphone format and a new proliferation of screen sizes, resolutions and the merged "pocket pc" and "smartphone" menubar. On the other hand, as a part-time software developer focused on vertical applications, it has become almost too difficult to write and maintain Windows Mobile software with all of the user interface changes that accompany each new version of the operating system. Undoubtedly, WM7 will introduce new UI features guaranteed to break existing applications.
</br>The fact that people may have seen leaked, early versions of WM7, are aware of OEMs that touted timetables for WM7 devices and still, Microsoft has not released WM7 should not make people "upset". I interpret all of this to indicate that prior to the iPhone or Android, Microsoft was on their typical release cycle for another boring, new iteration for WM. It's entirely possible that the iPhone and Android caused Microsoft to reexamine their plans and suddenly realize that Apple and Google were going to eat their lunch and leave them irrelevant if they didn't hit WM7 "out of the park". It's also possible that with the changing of the guard, i.e. Bill Gates leaving, that the new leadership decided to chart a different more bold course for Windows Mobile, which necessitated altering their original schedule.
</br>Either way, I'm content to simply wait and see what Microsoft delivers. We'll know soon enough if Microsoft is serious about staying relevant in an increasingly crowded, more competitive mobile device field.

Pony99CA
10-01-2008, 11:33 PM
It's entirely possible that the iPhone and Android caused Microsoft to reexamine their plans and suddenly realize that Apple and Google were going to eat their lunch and leave them irrelevant if they didn't hit WM7 "out of the park".
That's exactly what I think happened. As I've stated elsewhere, I recall hearing about Photon (WM 7) back when WM 6 still wasn't available. There was no talk of a WM 6.1, though.

I think that after the iPhone came out, Microsoft rethought WM 7 and released WM 6.1 to get a few important features out. Maybe I'm wrong, and WM 6.1 was on their release schedule all along, but that's how I've seen things.

Steve