Goodbye Carbonite, Hello Mozy [Archive]

Jason Dunn

08-12-2008, 06:30 PM

A couple of years ago <a href="http://www.digitalhomethoughts.com/news/show/29715/is-your-data-safe-probably-not-would-you-pay-5-a-month-to-protect-it-all.html" target="_blank">I made an impassioned plea</a> to all the readers of our sites to implement a solid backup solution, preferably an off-site one. I figured it was time for an update on my solutions, and a refresher for everyone on the importance of backing up their data.<img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com//dht/auto/1218557232.usr1.png" border="1" />I was a <a href="http://www.carbonite.com" target="_blank">Carbonite</a> user for a couple of years, but last year I discovered something quite ugly: Carbonite filtered out EXE files, ISO files, and a few other file types. I have a few small ISO files I keep in my documents folder; these are boot CDs I might need to duplicate in the future. And as for EXE files, I purchase digital software quite often, and these EXE files are required if I need to re-install the software. I consider both ISO and EXE files to be part of my data - things that, if I lost, I'd be very upset because they'd be difficult to get back or re-create. <MORE />Carbonite considers these types of files non-user data. Shouldn't the user decide what constitutes the data they want to back up? I understand why Carbonite might automatically filter those types of files out - clueless users might try to back up their entire Programs directory thinking it would help them if they had a hard drive crash - but ultimately the user should have the final say over what they want to back up. I still recommend Carbonite for most of my friends and family, because I know they don't have ISO and EXE files to back up, but it was no longer the right solution for me.I had experimented with <a href="http://www.mozy.com/?ref=3f9a896b&kbid=30184&m=4&i=75" target="_blank">Mozy</a> [Affiliate] last year, and liked what I saw, so I signed up with them for a two-year plan, using the coupon code of the month (it's just the name of the month) to save 10% off the total. That works out to only $3.89 per month - tough be beat that! The screen shot above shows the beginning of my 180 GB backup from a few weeks back...as of today, I'm about 40% through the total backup. Backing up 180 GB of data at 1 Mbps upstream is a slow, slow process - and I have a technical cap of 100 GB total transfer per month with my ISP. Once it's finished though, I'll be comforted knowing that all of my photos, documents, music, and software is safely backed up off-site. I still user <a href="http://www.foldershare.com" target="_blank">FolderShare</a> to shuffle my files around and maintain multiple backups of my documents/pictures, and I have a local backup running to an external hard drive, but Mozy completes the circle by offering me off-site protection for my data at a <a href="http://www.mozy.com/?ref=3f9a896b&kbid=30184&m=4&i=75" target="_blank">very low monthly rate</a>.If you're not backing up your data on a regular basis, I'll leave you with a quote to think about from my review of the <a href="http://www.digitalhomethoughts.com/news/show/90018/hp-simplesave-photo-photo-video-backup-made-really-really-easy.html" target="_blank">HP SimpleSave Photo</a> product:"I encountered one such woman recently: she came to me quite upset because Windows XP on her computer had become corrupted somehow, and a technician re-installed it for her, but she was missing several years worth of pictures of her child when he was a baby. She'd never run a single backup in four years, and despite my efforts using undelete software I was only able to recover a fraction of the photos she'd lost. It was heartbreaking to have to tell her that several years worth of photos were lost forever."Even if you have a great backup solution yourself, what about friends and family? Don't let them suffer the heartache of losing their digital memories - help them implement an easy to manage off-site backup solution.Jason Dunn owns and operates <a href="http://www.thoughtsmedia.com" target="_blank">Thoughts Media Inc.</a>, a company dedicated to creating the best in online communities. He enjoys <a href="http://photos.jasondunn.com/" target="_blank">photography</a>, mobile devices, <a href="http://www.jasondunn.com" target="_blank">blogging</a>, digital media content creation/editing, and pretty much all technology. He lives in Calgary, Alberta, Canada with his lovely wife, and his mostly obedient dog.

efjay

08-12-2008, 07:02 PM

Rocco Augusto

08-12-2008, 07:34 PM

Rob Alexander

08-12-2008, 07:38 PM

This was one of the reasons I also left Carbonite when my one-year subscription was up. I have lots of files that fall into their 'will not backup' category. Most of them, like .exe's, can be backuped if you go to them one-at-a-time, right-click and tell them to, but there are some files in my installation sets that it just wouldn't touch no matter what. I kept asking them for a feature that would allow me to point to a specific folder and have Carbonite backup everything in that tree without regard for extension, but they were not impressed.

So then what's the point? It doesn't help if Carbonite only backs up some of the files needed to install a program. The program won't install with half the files any better than with none of the files. Even if you can scour your drive looking for individual files to tag, isn't that the whole point of software like this... to do it for us?

But there are a few other things that were a problem for me with Carbonite that are worth mentioning. One of the most annoying things about the product is in the way it scans every folder and 'grabs' new files to backup the instant you create them. The result is this...

Do you ever use the 'new' option under the context menu to create new files? I do for a couple of file types, such as text files. If I'm going to put a readme.txt file in a folder, I create it with the right-click/new feature, name it, then hit enter a second time to open it and write my note. Quick, easy and efficient. But here's the thing with Carbonite. It can't wait to get the new file into its system and so it refreshes the folder instantly on the file being created and whips it away in alphabetical order. So you have to go search for your file under the name 'New Text File.txt' and then rename it from there. I have suggested that they just add a 30 second delay to the cataloging of newly created files, but that didn't appeal to them.

That's not the only problem with the constant refreshing of the folders. Ever have a folder with lots of files and want to go through the folder selecting a set of them that you are going to do something with? An example would be a set of photos. You look through the thumbnails, and Ctrl-Click on those you want to copy out to send a family member. But with Carbonite installed, part of the way through your review, it refreshes your folder and you lose your selections. It's infuriating.

The idea of web-based backups is good, so I've checked out a few others. I spent some real time with Syncplicity, but it didn't work out for a variety of reasons. (Cost as well as lost data.) So I'll probably move over to Mozy as well. None of the online solutions are my primary backups. I have all of my files on my new Dell desktop autobacked onto a 1TB Seagate external drive. But there is no substitute for an off-site backup.

I am reminded of a colleague that I spoke with while traveling overseas last summer. He and his wife are both professionals who travel extensively and they both travel separately. Their backup solution was to use the Internet to keep all of their files on both computers no matter where they were in the world. The flaw in that strategy (actually, there are several) came when they were both home at the same time. They went out to dinner and someone broke into their apartment and stole both computers. Oops! The same idea has occured to me with my setup. I am well-protected against a hard disk failure, but if someone comes in and steals my computer, they're likely to grab that external drive as well. $3.89 a month is not too high a price to pay for a little extra insurance.

Rob Alexander

08-12-2008, 07:50 PM

Thanks for the heads up Jason, I'll have to give Mozy a try. I was actually considering going out and dropping the cash on one of those fancy Windows Home Servers just to have something automatic that I don't have to fiddle with all the time.

If you prefer a local solution, the software that came with my Seagate FreeAgent Pro external drive is completely automatic and has been working very nicely for all of the 5 days I've had it. ;) The program monitors for file changes all the time and catalogs them as they occur. But then it waits until your computer is idle before actually backing them up. The concept extends even to having your backup drive offline. If you remove your backup drive, the software continues to catalog your changes and just waits until you reattach it to do the backups. It's every bit as automatic as, and much less intrusive than, the software I used with Carbonite. I believe, but am not sure, that you can buy just the software to use on any external drive from a company called Memeo. That seems to be who Seagate licensed it from.

That said, I still think there are advantages to online backups and the prices are pretty good at the low end.

ctmagnus

08-12-2008, 08:06 PM

using the coupon code of the month (it's just the name of the month) to save 10% off the total.

D'oh! My subscription renews in two days and it appears that you cannot use coupons for renewals. :(

USArcher

08-12-2008, 08:29 PM

Nothing beats Windows Home Server for backups in my opinion. Its dead simple, fast, works for up to 10 PCs, system restore capability (saves you hours), smart enough not to backup duplicate files that exist on several PCs and supports folder duplication for extra protection. Not to mention, there are no subscription fees for TBs of data and you can use it for many other purposes (remote access, etc).

Now, if you've only got 20GB..yeah, those online solutions are probably fine.

Omegajb

08-12-2008, 08:41 PM

I agree that if the data is important that you should have a backup and the best solution is offsite. If you have it on an external drive it can be stolen or damaged in a fire.

I just did an evaluation for my company and this is what I found.

Carbonite cheap but don't expect any support.

Mozzy isn't all it's cracked up to be, there are so many technical issues and if you want to restore something they send you an un encrypted zip file ( how safe is that?)

We just swiched our office computers to Iron Mountain's Connected backup, I liked the historical version of files, backing up PST files and the recovery process, however it is more expensive so there are some trade offs.

Phillip Dyson

08-12-2008, 08:50 PM

<Darth Sidious> Now Jason's backup is complete... </Darth Sidious>

Hey Jason, I would be interested to know where your WHS server fits into all of this. Are you backing up to Mozy from there? Or on your individual workstations?

Damion Chaplin

08-12-2008, 10:21 PM

Gad. Would you believe I've been procrastinating about online backup ever since you're original Carbonite post? Yeah, two years now.

So thanks for the heads up. Guess I won't be procrastinating about Carbonite any longer. ;)

So, I've always wondered: is 'carbonite' a reference to Star Wars? Like you're data's as safe as a hibernating Han Solo?

Jon Westfall

08-13-2008, 12:29 AM

I have around 200 GB of important data that I like to keep backed up. The problem is that my internet connection is too slow to use any type of off-site automatic backup, so here is what I do.

Every so often, I take 2 200 GB external hard drives and copy everything to them. I then take one hard drive to my office and store it there, and keep the other at home. Both hard drives are encrypted to prevent office snoops from hooking one or the other up and checking out the contents. For files that change frequently, I use Foldershare and have them replicated over 3 computers. The only hole in my loop are frequently modified files being stored off-site, something I'm currently trying to work on (Although for those who have Foldershare installed on a work computer, that completes the loop).

It is manual, which is annoying, but it avoids having to wait several weeks for full protection, is easily updatable, and lets me keep a copy of my files at work within easy reach if I, say, want to find a specific MP3 to play at the beginning of a class.

Jason Dunn

08-13-2008, 01:07 AM

My main issue with online backup solutions is privacy and security, you can never be 100% sure your data wont be compromised and there is also the possibility of the company disappearing.

Regarding privacy and security, I can understand why it's a concern for some people. For myself, my only truly private information is inside FlexWallet, which has its own 256 bit encryption - so uploading that file isn't much of a concern. In terms of the companies that offer back up service, they all have quite strict privacy policies - it's not like any employee can snoop in your files. And in fact, both Carbonite and Mozy have encryption keys - I know in the case of Carbonite, only the CEO has the authority to access customer files, and I think even then only in the case of a subpoena.

In terms of the company disappearing, that shouldn't be a problem if you're only using them for backup. None of these services are designed to be a point of storage for UNIQUE content...as in content that only exists there. If the company were to shut down, you'll just lose your off-site backup, not the original files.

I prefer a local backup to an external drive and am now looking at Live Mesh for remote file access.

Live Mesh is an interesting tool, but it's not smart enough to understand when two PCs are on the same LAN - meaning it will sync the file at your Internet upload speed and not your LAN speed. Hopefully that's something they'll fix in the future. The 5 GB file limit also makes it pretty much useless for me. :D

Jason Dunn

08-13-2008, 01:10 AM

I was actually considering going out and dropping the cash on one of those fancy Windows Home Servers just to have something automatic that I don't have to fiddle with all the time.

That's the other part of the equation - having a WHS means you'll get daily complete backups of your PCs, which is vital for getting back up and running quickly. Hard drive fails? Drop in a new one, restore from the latest daily backup - boom, you're back in business. Mozy doesn't provide a solution in that case.

WHS is great, and it does a lot, but if you ONLY want the daily backup, pick up Acronis TrueImage (http://www.acronis.com) instead.

Jason Dunn

08-13-2008, 01:12 AM

Their backup solution was to use the Internet to keep all of their files on both computers no matter where they were in the world. The flaw in that strategy (actually, there are several) came when they were both home at the same time. They went out to dinner and someone broke into their apartment and stole both computers. Oops!

Yeah, that's the perfect reason to have off-site backup. A lot of people think it's ok to back up to an external drive sitting right next to their computer, but if there's a fire/flood/thief, it's not like your external hard drive is going to be spared. :(

Ed Hansberry

08-13-2008, 03:06 AM

I had Carbonite for 2-3 months befrore I tracked it down as the source of a problem I was having with a number of apps. Windows OneCare backups to USB would fail with Carbonite service running claiming inadequate disk space, and Excel would occasionally throw an "out of disk space in the temp folder" error. Uninstalling Carbonite fixed it. I contacted them about it and they knew nothing about it and insisted it wasn't their software.

I finally fought enough to get a refund for the balance of my prepaid year and installed Mozy. That was back in April or May and haven't had an issue since.

Jason Dunn

08-13-2008, 04:00 AM

Nothing beats Windows Home Server for backups in my opinion.

As the French said to King Arthur in Monty Python's The Holy Grail, "We already got one!" :D

I have a WHS, and it's great, but unless you have yours outside your home/office, fire/floor/theft will wipe all your data out. Off site is the only way to keep your data safe.

Jason Dunn

08-13-2008, 04:01 AM

Mozzy isn't all it's cracked up to be, there are so many technical issues and if you want to restore something they send you an un encrypted zip file ( how safe is that?)

Hmm. Was this a long time ago? I tried a restore just yesterday, and it was as simple as going into My Computer, browsing to the Mozy drive, finding the file I wanted, and clicking restore. Sending an unencrypted ZIP file is definitely not the normal way of doing things..

Jason Dunn

08-13-2008, 04:05 AM

<darth sidious="">Now Jason's backup is complete... </darth>

Nope, still a couple of weeks left. :cool:

Hey Jason, I would be interested to know where your WHS server fits into all of this. Are you backing up to Mozy from there? Or on your individual workstations?

My Windows Home Server keeps the images of my systems safe - if I have a hard drive failure or catastrophic Windows crash, I can restore from the latest daily backup. I'm running Mozy off my Windows Media Center computer (which is really just a computer running Vista Ultimate, but I use it to watch TV off of). It has two 400 GB drives, which gives me enough storage to back up everything I need. Since I use FolderShare to push my files to this computer, it has the same photos and documents as my other computers do. It also has the master copy of my music collection and video collection. Lastly, it has my software collection as well. Music, videos and software are kept in sync with the WHS using SyncBackSE. There are some things on my WHS that I don't back up using Mozy: my public drive, my Acronis TrueImage master images, etc.

Basically, I push/pull everything I want to back up to this one computer, and Mozy does it's job from there.

Jason Dunn

08-13-2008, 04:06 AM

Gad. Would you believe I've been procrastinating about online backup ever since you're original Carbonite post? Yeah, two years now.

I'd say you'd win an award, but let's face it, most people procrastinate about data loss until it's too late, then they kick themselves over and over.

So, I've always wondered: is 'carbonite' a reference to Star Wars? Like you're data's as safe as a hibernating Han Solo?

I think so, but you'd have to ask them. :)

Jason Dunn

08-13-2008, 04:09 AM

I had Carbonite for 2-3 months befrore I tracked it down as the source of a problem I was having with a number of apps.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that I had a series of problems with Carbonite chewing up 90% of my dual-core CPU cycles, and I spent a month working with their tech support before I just gave up. :rolleyes:

I think Carbonite is a tad shoddy, but it's easier for n00b computer users. I think Mozy is a better product overall, but it's a bit more complex.

Rob Alexander

08-13-2008, 05:18 AM

Yeah, I forgot to mention that I had a series of problems with Carbonite chewing up 90% of my dual-core CPU cycles, and I spent a month working with their tech support before I just gave up. :rolleyes:

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that one. About once every two weeks or so, everything would slow to a crawl. I'd look in task manager and Carbonite would be taking up over 50% of my CPU cycles. No setting would affect it (e.g. pausing it or even disabling it). The only thing I could do was to end the process directly. The process would restart itself immediately, but it would then behave for a while.

Rob Alexander

08-13-2008, 05:39 AM

So, I've always wondered: is 'carbonite' a reference to Star Wars? Like you're data's as safe as a hibernating Han Solo?

Yeah, and look how safe that turned out to be! :D

Ed Hansberry

08-13-2008, 10:51 AM

Yeah, I forgot to mention that I had a series of problems with Carbonite chewing up 90% of my dual-core CPU cycles, and I spent a month working with their tech support before I just gave up. :rolleyes:

Yup, had the same issue. I sent them a log and they wanted me to disable the backup in several folders that had a lot of activity. Nevermind that there was, well, you know, DATA in those folders I needed to have backed up. :rolleyes:

theon

08-13-2008, 02:40 PM

When I saw this thread I immediately went to the site and downloaded the free 2GB version to test out.

Unfortunately Mozy doesn't seem to back up network drives which is where I store most of my shared data. Any solution similar to Mozy that can take in network drives as well that anyone knows about?

SQLDba

08-13-2008, 02:41 PM

My biggest complaint w/ both Mozy and Carbonite is that you have to have separate accounts for each computer you have - so that $3.89 becomes $10+ when you are backing up your work computer, home machine, wife's laptop etc.

It seems to me that there should be a "power user" or family license - maybe $7.50 a month that would let you add more than one computer to your account.

I've been using Jungle Disk - a $20 one time purchase application - that works on Windows, Linux and Mac - and gives you unlimited space and unlimited machines to access that space. They use Amazon S3 for storing your data - and so you pay a small monthly fee for bandwidth usage and montly storage. That first upload of all your data can be pricey (couple bucks) but after that - the bandwidth charge is nominal. Biggest problem w/ Jungle Disk is that there is a clear tipping point where the flat rate pricing of a Mozy / Carbonite becomes cheaper. But otherwise I've been very happy.

The other nice feature about Jungle Disk as that there is an ability to create a mapping to your disk as a network drive (J: by default) so you can get a little more funcational use out of it than just for offline storage.

onlydarksets

08-13-2008, 02:51 PM

Hmm. Was this a long time ago? I tried a restore just yesterday, and it was as simple as going into My Computer, browsing to the Mozy drive, finding the file I wanted, and clicking restore. Sending an unencrypted ZIP file is definitely not the normal way of doing things..
That's for remote file access, which is something they tout as a "feature". No thanks. If I need remote access, I want a web interface where I can just download the file.

Carbonite and Mozy are pretty much fungible (unless you have a Mac, of course) - over time, you will find things about Mozy that don't meet your requirements, as well. Now, if their customer service is more responsive, then that could be a differentiator, but we are the small minority of their customer base (users backing up 100GB+), so there will always be something, since they are developing their product for the masses.

I'm on Carbonite (since your original article), and I have no plans to switch (just renewed, thanks to this reminder!). I am not looking forward to another 2-week backup...

onlydarksets

08-13-2008, 02:53 PM

My biggest complaint w/ both Mozy and Carbonite is that you have to have separate accounts for each computer you have - so that $3.89 becomes $10+ when you are backing up your work computer, home machine, wife's laptop etc.

It seems to me that there should be a "power user" or family license - maybe $7.50 a month that would let you add more than one computer to your account.
I sync all of my machines to the HTPC, and then run Carbonite on the HTPC. So, I get a local backup and an off-site backup and I'm only paying for one machine. Foldershare makes it transparent.

Omegajb

08-13-2008, 03:57 PM

That's for remote file access, which is something they tout as a "feature". No thanks. If I need remote access, I want a web interface where I can just download the file.

***long quote trimmed by mod JD***

That's right, it was remote access which is a cool feature but not secure. The thing about Carbonite that stunk was how it backed up PST files, it looks like it has to backup the entire PST everytime it changes.
I don't remember how Mozy is doing it.

onlydarksets

08-13-2008, 04:09 PM

I'm sure Mozy is the same, unless it does incremental file backups (which I seriously doubt, although I have no direct information). I use Exchange, so that's my backup. My archive PST rarely changes, so I can stomach the once-in-a-blue-moon 500MB backup.

Jason Dunn

08-13-2008, 05:59 PM

Unfortunately Mozy doesn't seem to back up network drives which is where I store most of my shared data. Any solution similar to Mozy that can take in network drives as well that anyone knows about?

Yeah, that's not that uncommon for services like this - for $5 a month (or less) they have to set some limits on the backup. Even when they use the word "unlimited" they know that for most users that means a finite amount of data on a local hard drive. If they allowed backing up of network drives, which is something the average consumer doesn't have or even understand, they'd really be offering network-wide backup...and I don't think any company could be profitable allowing that. :)

My advice? Re-architect how you do things...push the files on the network drive back down to one computer using FolderShare or another sync program, get all your data onto a single computer, then use Mozy to back up that computer. That's what I do, and it works extremely well. Mozy allows you to back up external hard drives, which is pretty cool - last I checked, Carbonite does not.

lenpal

08-13-2008, 05:59 PM

Hi folks,

Just wanted to chime in as a representative of Carbonite with a couple of comments:

Carbonite is a "data backup" service; it isn't really intended as a "bare metal restore" system. A big "what if" about restoring an online backup is "What if you're restoring onto a completely different make and model of computer?" Your hardware will be different, your device drivers will be different. Your drive might be a different size and you may have a different amount of RAM, and so therefore should have a different sized paging file/virtual memory settings, etc. Doing a bare metal, "everything as it was" restore from one computer to a different type of computer could end up providing you with a very expensive paperweight due to incompatible device drivers and registry settings. As a result, Carbonite skips some files that are likely to be harmful if restored onto a different computer.
That being said, if there's a type of file that Carbonite skips, you can right-click that type of file and select it for backup, and then right-click again and say "Back up files of this type (in folders selected for backup)". That way, you can back up your .exe files, .dll files, etc. In a future version of Carbonite, if you select a folder explicitly for backup, everything in that folder will be selected for backup (including file types normally skipped).
Someone mentioned .pst files in this thread: Carbonite only backs up the changes to files after the initial backup. If it's backing up the whole .pst file every time, you may be on an extremely old version of Carbonite. (The current version is 3.6.1, and I believe we started incremental backup in 2.2 or 2.3, well over a year ago.)
In this thread, folks also mentioned slow support for Carbonite and Mozy. Occasionally hold times may be long. Since we introduced live chat a couple of weeks ago, this has improved hold times a lot, and we're constantly adding new staff to further improve response times on the phones and by chat and e-mail. I'm not sure whether Mozy has started providing phone support for their $50/year product yet so I can't really comment on that.
I'll be happy to continue participating in this discussion if folks have additional questions.

Sincerely,

Len Pallazola

Jason Dunn

08-13-2008, 06:19 PM

My biggest complaint w/ both Mozy and Carbonite is that you have to have separate accounts for each computer you have - so that $3.89 becomes $10+ when you are backing up your work computer, home machine, wife's laptop etc.

Yeah, I hear you - but these guys also have to make a profit, and $3.89 per computer is really, really cheap in my opinion - so even if you have to pay $12/month to back up three computers, that's still quite affordable. The alternative would be to do what I do: use Foldershare or another sync program to push files from your other PCs back to one PC, then back up that one PC.

I've been using Jungle Disk...and so you pay a small monthly fee for bandwidth usage and montly storage.

I've seen others recommend Jungle Disk, but that tipping point you talked about is pretty killer - for me to keep 180 GB of data with Jungle Disk would cost $27/month. No cool feature that Jungle Disk offers is worth me paying $288 more per year for.

Here's the problem: services like Jungle Disk, and Smugmug's Vault service, are trying to be profitable on a per-user and per-GB basis. They're selling backup service like hamburgers: a fixed profit per burger sold. Services like Mozy and Carbonite lose money on people like me with 180 GB of data to back up, but they make money off people like my parents, my in-laws, etc. who have under 10 GB of data to back up. They're trying to be profitable like an insurance company is profitable: overall with their customer base.

Fundamentally, I think the Mozy/Carbonite approach makes the most sense.

onlydarksets

08-13-2008, 06:22 PM

Fundamentally, I think the Mozy/Carbonite approach makes the most sense.
Translated: We are all freeloaders. Me and my 138GB will take it!

Jason Dunn

08-13-2008, 06:31 PM

That's for remote file access, which is something they tout as a "feature". No thanks. If I need remote access, I want a web interface where I can just download the file.

Ah, I see. Yeah, that's a bit of a hassle. Although I don't mind because I use FolderShare and can access pretty much every file I need via that Web service - or I can just log into my PC via Windows Home Server if I need anything else.

Carbonite and Mozy are pretty much fungible (unless you have a Mac, of course) - over time, you will find things about Mozy that don't meet your requirements, as well.

I had to go look up "fungible" :D, but I'm not so sure about that - Carbonite is really, really basic. Mozy offers a lot more power user options. I used Carbonite for a couple of years, and so far from my perspective Mozy is less dumbed-down and frustrating for me. It also hasn't had any of the previously mentioned glitches (like pegging my CPU at 90%). Carbonite's software just seems poorly-coded.

Now, if their customer service is more responsive, then that could be a differentiator...

I've found Carbonite's tech support to be better actually - I've only had one exchange with Mozy so far and it took them about three days to respond to me. They also didn't really read what I wrote and it took several exchanges just to clarify. They have a bizarre support system where, when they reply, it's a new email and not a reply quoting the previous email.

Jason Dunn

08-13-2008, 06:36 PM

The thing about Carbonite that stunk was how it backed up PST files, it looks like it has to backup the entire PST everytime it changes.

Yeah, that's usually called "bit level differentiation" - meaning the service only back up the bits that have changed. That was my #1 feedback point with Carbonite two years ago, and I guess they still haven't added it. I'm not sure if Mozy does that - I've emailed their support people to ask. FolderShare USED to do that until Microsoft removed that feature. :(

EDIT: Based on Len Pallazola's response above, it seems that Carbonite does have this feature. Cool! Mozy had better have it or I'll be ticked. :)

onlydarksets

08-13-2008, 06:38 PM

Yeah, that's usually called "bit level differentiation" - meaning the service only back up the bits that have changed. That was my #1 feedback point with Carbonite two years ago, and I guess they still haven't added it. I'm not sure if Mozy does that - I've emailed their support people to ask. FolderShare USED to do that until Microsoft removed that feature. :(
According to this (http://forums.thoughtsmedia.com/f303/goodbye-carbonite-hello-mozy-90232-4.html#post689879), Carbonite has implemented that.

Jason Dunn

08-13-2008, 06:39 PM

According to this (http://forums.thoughtsmedia.com/f303/goodbye-carbonite-hello-mozy-90232-4.html#post689879), Carbonite has implemented that.

You're too fast, I was just editing my post! :D

onlydarksets

08-13-2008, 06:42 PM

Mozy offers a lot more power user options. I used Carbonite for a couple of years, and so far from my perspective Mozy is less dumbed-down and frustrating for me.
Really? I don't recall them from when I tested it out, but that was a while ago. I was mostly interested in having a single service doing both backup and remote file access, but Mozy failed miserably in the latter category. I found the Mozy backup services to be a pretty near match to what I already had, so it wasn't worth the switch to me.

I've found Carbonite's tech support to be better actually - I've only had one exchange with Mozy so far and it took them about three days to respond to me. They also didn't really read what I wrote and it took several exchanges just to clarify. They have a bizarre support system where, when they reply, it's a new email and not a reply quoting the previous email.
I was inferring from prior posts that people had problems with responsiveness. I haven't really had any problems, so I haven't had to contact their support too much.

onlydarksets

08-13-2008, 06:45 PM

You're too fast, I was just editing my post! :D
Just trying to keep up with your speed-posting!

Jason Dunn

08-13-2008, 07:16 PM

Yeah, that's usually called "bit level differentiation" - meaning the service only back up the bits that have changed. That was my #1 feedback point with Carbonite two years ago, and I guess they still haven't added it. I'm not sure if Mozy does that - I've emailed their support people to ask.

I got a response from Mozy's tech support people already (that was fast!):

"Yes, Mozy does bit-level differentiation. It does not need to backup the entire file again, just the changes that you have made since your last backup. If you have any more questions, please let us know."

Jason Dunn

08-13-2008, 07:18 PM

I was mostly interested in having a single service doing both backup and remote file access, but Mozy failed miserably in the latter category.

Yeah, it would be nice if Mozy offered Web-based remote file access. But Carbonite doesn't either...maybe it has something to do with how they're encrypting the files on the back end?

tregnier

08-14-2008, 12:31 AM

I've been using Carbonite since they came out...maybe two years? I don't use it to backup my music or pictures or Downloads folder (too many .exe's) I have a home office, so getting the My Documents backed up frequently is important, as is offsite storage.

I also have an external drive that runs Norton Ghost. I have it set to do a mirror backup once a week and the My Documents daily.

I also periodically (about once a month) backup to a 2.5 external portable drive that I use when I transfer to a notebook and don't do it online.

I've looked at LiveMesh. I don't use multiple machines very often, so I'd rather not have it sitting out there. I've used Folder Share, but I prefer SyncToy when bouncing back frequently between a notebook and desktop.

Sound like a mess, but it works for me and I think it's pretty secure. When my Carbonite subscription is up, I'll probably check out Mozy.

Phillip Dyson

08-14-2008, 01:42 AM

I'm thinking about getting the HP MediaSmart server. I'm wondering if I could have Mozy back that up as the final leg in the data protection process.

I'm not quite clear on how much of a PC WHS actually is. Can I install software on it?

It would be nice if one of these companys created a WHS add in.

Jason Dunn

08-14-2008, 01:47 AM

I'm wondering if I could have Mozy back that up as the final leg in the data protection process.

It's possible, but I'm not 100% sure. Based on this, it might not work:

http://mswhs.com/2007/06/25/online-offsite-whs-backup-solutions/

I'm not quite clear on how much of a PC WHS actually is. Can I install software on it?

It's a Windows Server machine, so you can install software on it - the problem is that not all software is "aware" of the shared folder nature of the WHS...the way it spans a single folder across multiple drives.

It would be nice if one of these companys created a WHS add in.

Yup. I've been asking. :D

Ed Hansberry

08-14-2008, 02:56 AM

I got a response from Mozy's tech support people already (that was fast!):

"Yes, Mozy does bit-level differentiation. It does not need to backup the entire file again, just the changes that you have made since your last backup. If you have any more questions, please let us know."

I've never experienced this. I have an 800MB .accdb file (Access 2007) that every time I open it and close it, Mozy backs the entire thing up, or maybe it just takes so long ot do the bit level comparison, it seems like it is backing it up.

phoenixag

08-14-2008, 06:55 AM

I am surprised JungleDisk has only been mentioned once in this whole thread. I find the pricing model of JungleDisk to be infinitely cheaper than Mozy's pricing model.

You can install the software and access your data from unlimited computers. You only have to pay $20 up front for the software (with lifetime upgrades) and then its just a few cents for gigs and gigs of data backup.

It uses the Amazon S3 service as its base, so you can be sure that your data isn't going anywhere. For an additional $1/month, I have web based access to ALL my data.

It features 2 types of encryption and all kinds of other cool stuff.

I am very happy with the service and they seem to care a lot about how their service works and are constantly improving the software/implementing new features for free.

They also have a plugin for Windows Home Server, whcih is great as I will be making one soon in a month's time.

Omegajb

08-14-2008, 01:04 PM

onlydarksets

08-14-2008, 02:45 PM

I am surprised JungleDisk has only been mentioned once in this whole thread. I find the pricing model of JungleDisk to be infinitely cheaper than Mozy's pricing model.
I have 138GB backed up to Carbonite (same pricing as Moby).

That's $5/month on Moby.
That's $20.70/month on JungleDisk (plus $20 for the software plus $13.80 to upload my data, plus $23.46 to download it all if my computer dies).

Obviously, which service is cheaper depends on your usage.

Jason Dunn

08-14-2008, 05:01 PM

I've never experienced this. I have an 800MB .accdb file (Access 2007) that every time I open it and close it, Mozy backs the entire thing up, or maybe it just takes so long ot do the bit level comparison, it seems like it is backing it up.

Hmm. Maybe time to email Mozy and ask what's up? You've got the latest version of the software?

Jason Dunn

08-14-2008, 05:03 PM

I am surprised JungleDisk has only been mentioned once in this whole thread. I find the pricing model of JungleDisk to be infinitely cheaper than Mozy's pricing model.

As onlydarksets points out below, if you've got a lot of data (I'm backing up 180 GB on Mozy), JungleDisk is at least 4x more expensive. Or are we figuring out the cost wrong?

phoenixag

08-14-2008, 08:56 PM

Hmm, I see your point about the large amounts of data. Actually, the calculation is a bit wrong, at least from my perspective.

138GB of data on only one computer does work out cheaper on Moby.

But having that same data available on all my 6 computers + work computer = 7 total computers is actually cheaper on Jungledisk than on Moby.

One of the reasons I was attracted to JD was that I only pay once for my account and then a small monthly fee on actual usage, and can use it on unlimited computers!

So, in comparison to JD, the cost in my scenario on Moby would have been

7 computers = $5 x 7 = $35/month, which is just crazy.

Btw, the upload costs on JD are a one time affair, providing you are not uploading 138GB or 180GB of data on a day to day basis. The download costs to download the whole 180GB of data might be big, but are you really going to do that on a regular basis?

Also, I have secure web based access to all my data. That means, I can access any file from my phone. I can also upload any file from my Nokia E71 to JD straight off the phone. In fact, I regularly do this for editing documents on the go.

JD also comes with a portable version of its software, so you can carry it on your USB Stick, or as I said, access it straight off the browser.

Anyway, I guess there are different services for different purposes. JD suits my purpose fine, it might not fit in another scenario.

Jason Dunn

08-14-2008, 09:00 PM

Anyway, I guess there are different services for different purposes. JD suits my purpose fine, it might not fit in another scenario.

Cool, thanks for explaining your scenario - it sounds like JungleDisk is a real winner for your needs...and honestly, I'd like to be able to do the same thing with Mozy, but having 180 GB of data backed up is more important to me than remote access of those files (I have other solutions for that problem).

onlydarksets

08-14-2008, 09:05 PM

phoenixag

08-14-2008, 11:58 PM

I actually built my Windows Home Server machine, and have 2 Media Center PCs as well.

I've backed up most of my media stuff on the WHS machine. Although I use JungleDisk's addin for WHS, backing up more than 2TB of data to the cloud is unthinkable, and neither do I have the connection for that sort of thing. Actually, even backing up 180GB is unthinkable, so cudos to Jason for trying this out :)

If I exclude my media files, I find that my documents simply do not go over the 10GB limit.

One thing I am intrigued with here is:

onlydarksets: You mentioned that you use Foldershare in conjunction with Carbonite. I've been looking into Foldershare but always dismissed it because I thought it had a 2GB limit. But now when I looked into it again, it says a 2GB individual file limit.

Can you please explain to me how FolderShare works? Does your server have to be on for FolderShare to sync? Or does it save files to the cloud? I would imagine it needs to be on, hence the need for another 3rd party solution (Carbonite).

Can you please confirm this? I am looking into using Foldershare as an alternative solution for files which change on an hourly basis, but am not sure if it lets you access files when the PC is off and neither do they explain it very clearly on their site.

onlydarksets

08-15-2008, 02:05 AM

FolderShare is a p2p file sync and remote file access tool. It doesn't back anything up to the cloud, and it only works when both peers are online.

I use it more like a client/server tool, although you could set it up as more of a mesh, I believe. In my case, I have:

HTPC/Fileserver
Home office PC
Work laptop
Home laptop

The HTPC serves as the main repository. The other three PCs run FolderShare to sync up to it. I don't use it for larger media - only for documents, pictures, and music. Some machines sync up different things with the HTPC, but the HTPC gets everything.

Carbonite runs on the HTPC, and everything goes to the cloud.

Does that help?

J-Mac

08-15-2008, 04:21 AM

After over a year with Mozy - and just after I had renewed for two year, paid in advance, I ended up canceling the subscription and getting a refund. They forced an upgrade to a new version and it never could maintain a connection after that.

I went a month with only failed updates to my backups, spent three weeks corresponding with the same idiot who kept asking the same questions over and over. Finally he insisted that I try downgrading to the previous version, but only after a clean uninstall. I specifically asked if my 60 GB+ backup files were safe on Mozy's servers and he assured me they were.

The downgrade did not work because when the Mozy Home client recognizes there is an upgrade available it immediately installs it - the Support idiot should have known this. Plus after installing it the new installation insisted that I had no backup files online. Turns out it was true - they LOST my backup files. Because of the clean uninstall/reinstall. Even after I asked if this was safe.

Really poor support - once you actually need it.

I now use JungleDisk with an Amazon S3 account. Cost a little less, works fine, and I can backup all my copmputers with the same account - and over a network, too.

Jim

Jason Dunn

08-15-2008, 05:38 PM

I went a month with only failed updates to my backups, spent three weeks corresponding with the same idiot who kept asking the same questions over and over.

Ouch - sounds frustrating! So far I haven't had any problems with the Mozy client software...let's hope it stays that way!

batuckan1

08-15-2008, 09:26 PM

Hey folks

a few comments,

backup storage is probably the cheapest thing anyone can do, but no one wants to take the
time to invest in, till its too late.

pick your media, tape, hard drive, NAS, cd/dvd there's a plethora of options out there.
and no reason not to invest in something that will save your bacon when you absolutely have recover a file from storage.

tape media/ kinda pricey, requires some work, scsi/pci bus and typically found on a server.

hard drive, external or internal, media is cheap till you need it recovered from a broken read/write arm

the popular option is a linux/fedora/ubuntu running samba slapped someplace on your lan
you can map the netshares from windows, and see the files native format remotely.

again, the level of complexity depends on your need. if you want this stuff backed up and restored, you have to have the time to invest in it, or have someone do the work for you.

cool thing about linux distros, cost effective <cheap/free> scaleable <hardware and software needs depending on your skillsets and time> and requires the minimal hardware resources to run.

NAS can include linux boxes or the you can purchase individual NAS items from anywhere, they basically run the same OS, Linux or java or... pick your poison here. set it and forget it

and finally, the ever present dvd for the uninformed.. nothing like good old disk..

good luck to all

D.

theon

08-16-2008, 02:56 PM

I think Connected from Iron Mountain will backup USB and network drives.

Doesn't look like they support Singapore... :( Thanks!

batuckan1

08-22-2008, 11:28 AM

Hey folks

Ive had decent luck with Acronis 9.1 workstation.

I use it as an ftp client to save files to an ftp server/win 2003 to an offsite place and
so far it has worked out ok.

havent had to restore the data yet, <and i am abit anxious to see how well its worked>
but atleast i know it does work.

mike

ctmagnus

08-22-2008, 06:23 PM

Jason Dunn

08-22-2008, 06:30 PM

Ugh. I'm having hard drive issues and I'm leaving on an overseas trip tomorrow. I'm excruciatingly thorough about backups so my biggest concern is the time it will take Mozy to re-upload all my data if (likely when) I have my hard drive replaced and copy all my data back over to it from a local backup.

Hmm. Sounds like you should look at something like Acronis TrueImage (http://www.acronis.com). Buy a 2.5" external hard drive, bring it with you on your trip, and make regular system-wide backups to it. If your hard drive fails, get a new hard drive then restore the image to the drive. Should be virtually no data loss or down-time.

onlydarksets

08-22-2008, 06:31 PM

That's the biggest limitation of Carbonite, IMO - if you reinstall the OS (or just move your files to a new locatin), you can't tell the existing online backup where the files are locally. You have to re-upload everything.

ctmagnus

08-22-2008, 06:52 PM

Hmm. Sounds like you should look at something like Acronis TrueImage (http://www.acronis.com). Buy a 2.5" external hard drive, bring it with you on your trip, and make regular system-wide backups to it. If your hard drive fails, get a new hard drive then restore the image to the drive. Should be virtually no data loss or down-time.

I already do that (to a 3.5" external hard drive as well). I've got an apparently good backup from a week ago that I've restored from twice already. Both times, Windows started out fine but eventually went wonky. I'm booting to the Windows DVD atm in hopes of doing a repair installation.

fwiw, I've got ERD Commander 2005 and I can do a chkdsk /f with no issues but a chkdsk /r reports no bad sectors but says "an unspecified error has occured". :eek:

Jason Dunn

08-22-2008, 07:00 PM

Both times, Windows started out fine but eventually went wonky. I'm booting to the Windows DVD atm in hopes of doing a repair installation.

Hmm. So it might be that Windows has gone wonky, which a new hard drive won't fix, or it could be a bad hard drive that, if replaced, your image of Windows would work fine on. Tough to say which it is...hope it works out for you!

By the way, congrats for being the first non-team member to break 5000 posts! :)

ctmagnus

08-22-2008, 07:46 PM

Hmm. So it might be that Windows has gone wonky, which a new hard drive won't fix, or it could be a bad hard drive that, if replaced, your image of Windows would work fine on. Tough to say which it is...hope it works out for you!

I plan to call Dell (XPS M1210) asap after I get back. I hope they have techs running 24x7 because I'll be getting home late. The other option is to call Dell UK and have them swap the harddrive in the hotel, if they offer international support. I ran a chkdsk and a defrag on my 2.5" hard drive and it's fine so restoring my data from there is no issue, other than the time taken for Handy Backup to recopy all of it back over itself (Handy Backup quirk) and consequently Mozy. 18 months without a reinstall is a new record for me!

Phillip Dyson

09-23-2008, 11:42 PM

Okay Jason,
I'm ready to pull the trigger on this. Or turn both keys... or drop the rods ... or ...

You've had some time with Mozy and there's been some other plans services mentioned. I think Carbonite has even chimed in on this thread.

I am disappointed that Mozy has exiled Windows Home Server support to their Pro service, but I understand why from a business decision standpoint. Plus I don't have a WHS setup yet. Probably in the future. I don't consider it a showstopper at this point.

Given what you've experienced, would you still choose Mozy over Carbonite?

Jason Dunn

09-24-2008, 05:11 AM

Given what you've experienced, would you still choose Mozy over Carbonite?

Yup, 100%. Mozy took 180 GB of my data, without a hiccup, and regular backups have been happening smoothly. I'm definitely happy I made the switch!

Phillip Dyson

09-25-2008, 01:45 AM

Yup, 100%. Mozy took 180 GB of my data, without a hiccup, and regular backups have been happening smoothly. I'm definitely happy I made the switch!

Good enough for me. I'm making the leap.

cuteseal

09-26-2008, 01:32 AM

This is not really a backup solution but is similar to Jungle Disk so I thought I'd share:

http://www.getdropbox.com

- Automatically syncs a designated folder on your machine to online storage
- Client for mac, windows, linux
- Web based interface for viewing and administering files (e.g. if you are on another PC)
- Can make uploaded files public to share to others
- Differential transfers?

I've been trying this out for the past two weeks and I'm really impressed! At the moment you only get a 2GB dropbox for free, but later on I believe they're offering paid versions with more storage.

I don't really see this as a backup solution, but more a common "documents" folder or work area for all my PCs - all files I put into the dropbox are automatically synced to all my other PCs and to the web.

I suppose it's a different paradigm to backups - i.e. if my PC crashed I would still have to rebuild it from scratch; However all my important documents and data that I put in my dropbox, would be safe.

p.s. I'm not affiliated with them, just excited! :D

sflorack

09-30-2008, 04:56 PM

I received a free year of Carbonite service when I purchased a Network Magic product. Like many of you, my experience with Carbonite has been far from stellar.

Recently I tried to reinstall Carbonite on my home PC, only to discover that my account had been disabled. After contacting suport a second time (my first email went unanswered) a CS rep told me my account was inactive because “your Network Magic subscription started on 12/19/2007 and expired on 12/19/2008.”

I had to look at my calendar a few times to make sure I hadn’t lost my mind (it *is* still 2008, right??) When I contacted support asking for clarification, they told me I had to reinstall Carbonite using a new activation code; all of my backed files were gone.

After some interaction with their CS Manager, the final explanation was this: because I uninstalled Carbonite, my files remained on the server for 15 days. If you don't reinstall the software within those 15 days server your subscription ends before prematurely and your secure files go POOF!

Since then, I've looked at just about every online backup provider there is: Mozy, Athena, Syncplicity, and SugarSync. (I've opted for the latter, but that's a different discussion..) My largest turnoff with Mozy is their pricing plan. While SugarSync allows me 10GB of data on multiple machines, Mozy allows unlimited data on 1. I've also felt that the process of restoring files through Mozy to be time consuming in the very least. SugarSync acts more like a WebDAV drive, where I can download any backed file from any computer with a web browser.

Whatever you choose, I wholeheartedly agree that offsite backing is a must. Even if you were to take advantage of the free 2GB offer Mozy has, it's certainly a step in the right direction.

Ed Hansberry

10-02-2008, 11:11 AM

Well, FWIW, on Mozy, this thing does NOT seem to upload only changes to a file. I have a 1GB Access 2007 database. Just opening an Access database in Access will cause the timestamp and presumably a few bits in the file to change. Mozy uploads the entire 1GB file each day I open this file.

Still like the service, but the uploading of only changed parts of a file doesn't seem to be working for me, and I have whatever latest version they pushed down a month or so ago.

Jason Dunn

10-02-2008, 07:07 PM

Well, FWIW, on Mozy, this thing does NOT seem to upload only changes to a file. I have a 1GB Access 2007 database. Just opening an Access database in Access will cause the timestamp and presumably a few bits in the file to change. Mozy uploads the entire 1GB file each day I open this file.

Strange...that flies in the face of what they told me. Have you emailed them to ask about this specific instance?

ctmagnus

10-02-2008, 08:03 PM

It depends on what data in the file has changed. I've seen instances where editing one part of the file causes the whole file to reupload but editing another part causes only a minimal upload of data. I know that if you change the album art in an MP3, the whole thing will reupload but if you change some of the text tags, only a small amount of data is reuploaded. Also, my Evernote database is around 22MB but whenever I change any of it, Mozy only uploads a fraction of a megabyte.

Ed Hansberry

10-02-2008, 09:27 PM

Strange...that flies in the face of what they told me. Have you emailed them to ask about this specific instance?
No, because it really doesn't matter to me. It runs overnight and I only touch this file 2-3 times a month. I didn't know Mozy was supposed to do this "changed part" upload thing, so it doesn't bother me that it doesn't do it well, if at all, at least on my machine. :D

Jason Dunn

10-02-2008, 09:43 PM

No, because it really doesn't matter to me. It runs overnight and I only touch this file 2-3 times a month.

Well, humour the rest of us who are wondering why it's not doing what it's supposed to be doing. :)

KirkMahoney

01-01-2009, 04:23 PM

See http://www.kirkmahoney.com/blog/2009/01/have-video-files-do-not-buy-carbonite/.

Jason Dunn

01-01-2009, 08:44 PM

See http://www.kirkmahoney.com/blog/2009/01/have-video-files-do-not-buy-carbonite/.

Wow. That's RIDICULOUS that they don't back up video files. I left Carbonite because they wouldn't back up ISO files, EXE files, and a few other file types that I consider part of my data...but to hear that they don't back up videos, which is certainly a part of what people would consider their data...that's just inexcusable.

Carbonite is really dropping the ball here. I'll be moving my friends and family away from Carbonite as their subscriptions expire.

I'll also front-page this issue...it's definitely worth people knowing about.

infoegg

04-03-2010, 09:51 PM

I have a very hard time believing this, but it appears that Jungle Disk may have wiped out all our company's data that they were responsible for storing. I find it hard to believe because I can recall only two email exchanges where an attempt was made to reconcile the issues of an error on the processing of our AMEX. The notification happened a few days before Christmas holidays when our offices are closed, and they wiped the data on jan 5th. Only one email was sent notifying us ogf the bank error. We tried to rectify the bank card error as easily, safely and quickly as possible, but we never heard from anyone at JD beyond the email thread below. I am flabbergasted to hear that you may have erased our data. It might be conceivable if you had tried to contact us a few times and perhaps a few months had gone by (after all, the fee is quite small). That is our only copy of that invaluable data and I hope to god that you can recreate it.

Please provide a phone number so that I can actually talk to a human because that apparently was the problem in this case--ie the simple and safe delivery of an AMEX number.

VERY frustrated right now. I hope this can be fixed.

Marty McDonald

----- All replies must be above this line -----
Ticket #20879: Re: Problem processing your Jungle Disk Purchase
Your request (#20879) has been updated.

To review the status of the request and add additional comments, follow the link below:
http://support.jungledisk.com/tickets/20879

You can also add a comment by replying to this email.

JungleBroome, Jan 05 11:56 am (CST):
Your authorization that gives Jungle Disk permission to bill you has expired. You simply need to follow the steps here: https://www.jungledisk.com/secure/account/newtoken.ashx

It is important to complete ALL steps even if the credit card payment information is correct.

Marty McDonald, Jan 04 11:12 pm (CST):
The Amex should work. Can you try running it through again?

On 1/4/10 9:05 PM, "Jungle Disk Billing" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hello marty mcdonald,
>
> We have been unable to successfully bill your outstanding Jungle Disk invoice
>
> Your account has been suspended until payment is complete.
>
>
>
> If you do not update your payment information and complete the transaction
> within 15 days your account will be deactivated and any data stored in your
> Jungle Disk account will be deleted.
>
>
>
> To update your Amazon.com payment authorization please visit:
>
> https://www.jungledisk.com/secure/account/newtoken.ashx
>
>
>
> To view details of your invoices please visit:
>
> https://www.jungledisk.com/secure/account/invoices.aspx
>
>
>
> If you have any questions please contact us at http://support.jungledisk.com (http://support.jungledisk.com/)
>
>

This email is a service from Jungle Disk Support
----- All replies must be above this line -----
Ticket #24252: Re: Problem processing your Jungle Disk Purchase
Your request (#24252) has been updated.

To review the status of the request and add additional comments, follow the link below:
http://support.jungledisk.com/tickets/24252

You can also add a comment by replying to this email.

JungleTravis, Feb 09 12:14 pm (CST):
Your authorization that gives Jungle Disk permission to bill you has expired. You simply need to follow the steps here: https://www.jungledisk.com/secure/account/newtoken.ashx

It is important to complete ALL steps even if the credit card payment information is correct.

Marty McDonald, Feb 08 11:09 pm (CST):
Hmm. Odd enough. How can I get you the CC # safely?

On 2/4/10 9:05 PM, "Jungle Disk Billing" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hello marty mcdonald,
>
> We have been unable to successfully bill your outstanding Jungle Disk invoice
>
> Your account has been deactivated due to non-payment and any data stored in
> your Jungle Disk account has been deleted.
>
>
>
> If you have any questions please contact us at http://support.jungledisk.com (http://support.jungledisk.com/)
>

doogald

04-05-2010, 05:46 PM

Jason Dunn

04-05-2010, 06:03 PM

I have a very hard time believing this, but it appears that Jungle Disk may have wiped out all our company's data that they were responsible for storing.

Wow. I'm shocked that they'd only allow for a 15 day lapse in payment before nuking data - that's utterly ridiculous and unreasonable. There are all sorts of reasons why a pre-authorized credit card doesn't go through, and 15 days isn't much time to correct problems. They definitely are doing a bad thing to their customers by having such a harsh policy.

That is our only copy of that invaluable data and I hope to god that you can recreate it.<[email protected]><[email protected]>

Yikes. Cloud backup is just that - a backup of your data, not a primary storage point. If your data is worth anything to you, and clearly it is, you should have a backup of it - if not SEVERAL backups. So while I sympathize with you for the unfair policy of nuking data after 15 days, it's hugely irresponsible to not have a backup of your data someplace else. That's just asking for data loss, and unfortunately, that's exactly what you got. :(
</[email protected]></[email protected]>

doogald

04-05-2010, 08:48 PM

Perhaps a lot of people have had this problem? JungleDisk just announced that they are switching away from Amazon Payments and moving to Chase Payments, which can be managed from within the JungleDisk account management website.

http://blog.jungledisk.com/2010/04/05/updates-to-jungle-disk-billing-system/

Why are you moving to a new billing system?

At one time, the Amazon Payments platform was convenient for both Jungle Disk and our customers. At this point, we're seeing two major challenges for our customers that has pushed us towards implementing a new payment system. First, the Amazon Payments platform often creates confusion for our customers who are unsure as to why they are being directed to an Amazon website. Second, and most importantly, for customers that do not have an existing Amazon Payments account, creating a separate and new account strictly for the purpose of payment adds unnecessary steps and complexity to the process. Leveraging the Chase Payments platform allows us to integrate the payment and billing process seamlessly and securely into the Jungle Disk website and administration console.

doogald

04-05-2010, 08:53 PM

Yikes. Cloud backup is just that - a backup of your data, not a primary storage point. If your data is worth anything to you, and clearly it is, you should have a backup of it - if not SEVERAL backups. So while I sympathize with you for the unfair policy of nuking data after 15 days, it's hugely irresponsible to not have a backup of your data someplace else. That's just asking for data loss, and unfortunately, that's exactly what you got. :(
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In his defense, that was my original thought, but then I remembered that JungleDisk is not just a backup system - you can mount the backup point as a WebDAV drive on your system and copy, move, delete, etc. files directly. Now, it's true that you shouldn't depend on a single source for any piece of critical data, but JungleDisk can be used as something other than online backup.

Also, it appears to me that it was more than 15 days. According to the emails in his post, they deactivated his account on January 4, pending payment authorization, with a warning that the data would be deleted in one month - which seems to be what happened. I'd think that had an authorization been done in that period before Feb 4th, the data would still have been there.