"Zune Phone" a Nokia?

[Adam Krebs]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.zunescene.com/nokia-zune-phone/' target='_blank'>http://www.zunescene.com/nokia-zune-phone/</a><br /><br /></div><p>"<em>Nokia is currently working with the Zune team on integration of Zune Marketplace content according to a well placed source within Microsoft. The joint development is directed at content delivery rather than a hardware device according to the source. It has long been assumed by many tech followers that Zune content and software would find it's way onto Windows Mobile devices, thereby offering competition to the unfortunately popular iPhone. The interesting thing about the Nokia Zune partnership is that Nokia does not support Windows Mobile. It appears Microsoft may be developing a two front war against the iPhone, namely Windows based smart phones and more abundant 'non-smart' phones.</em>"</p><p><img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/600/zt/auto/1217664193.usr495.jpg" border="0" /></p><p>Take it or leave it, but Zune-Scene's reporting that if and when the Zune team releases a media player client for a mobile phone (a.k.a. the "<a href="http://www.smartphonethoughts.com/news/show/90114/do-we-really-need-a-zune-phone.html" target="_blank">Zune Phone</a>", "zPhone" or "<a href="http://www.zuneboards.com/microsoft-news/the-pink-and-purple-project.html" target="_blank">Pink and Purple</a>&nbsp;project"), it won't be on Microsoft's own Windows Mobile platform as <a href="http://www.zunethoughts.com/news/show/59/zune-phone-part-of-the-future-plans.html" target="_blank">widely</a> <a href="http://www.zunethoughts.com/news/show/89913/it-pro-speculates-on-the-zune-phone.html" target="_blank">speculated</a>, but on rival Nokia's series of smartphones. As with past Zune-Scene reports, this one is short on detail (e.g. no release date, lots of plausible deniability) and high on outlandish claims. While keeping this in mind, I should also point out that Zune-Scene's sources have been right on a number of these scoops in the past. This should be fun to watch as it develops.</p>

[Alber1690]

Interesting...we'll just have to wait and see.

Haha, "...the unfortunately popular iPhone."

[JohnJohn]

I'll eat my shoe if this happens

[Felix Torres]

I'll eat my shoe if this happens

I'd recommend some cajun spices if you follow through on that.:cool:

You do know there is precedent for this, right?
MS licensed Exchange push email connectivity to Nokia a while back and they are both quite happy about it. And they are licensing Silverlight to all comers. Just this week it came out they help fund Apache.
MS is not particularly religious about licensing their tech to competitors or supporting competing platforms when customers require it.
(Look at XBOX's support for iPods, DiVX, and h.264, for starters...)

So there is no reason for MS *not* to take advantage of Nokia's phone-pushing clout, nor is there any reason why Nokia wouldn't want to get a cheap counter to iTunes for their phones; their options are Rhapsody, Napster, and Zune.

Would it really surprise anybody if they sat down with all three to see who came in with the best deal? And if they did, that MS would win?

[Adam Krebs]

MS is not particularly religious about licensing their tech to competitors or supporting competing platforms when customers require it.
(Look at XBOX's support for iPods, DiVX, and h.264, for starters...)

I'd have to disagree with that. In the world of consumer electronics, image is of the utmost importance. This just doesn't make sense from an image perspective, and it certainly doesn't make sense from a tech perspective--the Zune firmware is built upon Windows CE, and lives within the Microsoft ecosystem. You might recall that Exchange was licensed for Apple's iPhones. Want to take bets on when Zune capabilities are coming to the iPhone?

[JohnJohn]

You do know there is precedent for this, right?
MS licensed Exchange push email connectivity to Nokia a while back and they are both quite happy about it. And they are licensing Silverlight to all comers. Just this week it came out they help fund Apache.

***long quote trimmed by mod JD***

Just because Nokia has Exchange does not mean they're doing the Zune Phone. I could make the argument that Nokia is moving closer to Mobile Professional market by licensing Exchange. Zune Phone would be the opposite direction in my mind. Which might be a good business model, but unlikely.

If the Zune Phone happens I think it will be made by a hardware manufacture that already makes Windows mobile devices. The tuff part for Microsoft on this one will be making it easy...not trying to cram too much in it. "Make it simple stupid" However now that it's AFTER the iPhone it will get compared up and down. This may cause Microsoft to add useless, complicated features, only a few need. When I say complicated I don't mean us, forum people. Non-forum people are really pretty stupid when it comes to this stuff.

I think it will be a winner at a very, very low price point. Make it inexpensive. A 15 year old kid should easily be able to talk their father/mother into buying them one.

What are your thoughts on the demographics of a Zune Phone buyer? Answering that question may give us some insight who will make them.

[Rocco Augusto]

Huh, didn't see this coming. :)

[hamishmacdonald]

I feel myself drifting away from Windows Mobile.

Now that I'm using an HTC Shift to work away from home, I don't need my mobile to be an all-singing, all-dancing computer anymore, and that's opened up a space for me to question why everything about WM devices is so damned complicated.

Hearing now that they're focusing on putting Zune compatibility into Nokia phones while I can't get two of my MSN Music Store-purchased songs onto my new-this-year WM device just makes me want to give up on the platform. A five-minute conversation with any one of us in this community about what we want from these devices would underscore how severely disconnected this team seems to be from consumer reality sometimes.

Methinks the "invisible hand" of the marketplace is about to slap MS's mobile division upside the head within the next year or two.

[Stinger]

So there is no reason for MS *not* to take advantage of Nokia's phone-pushing clout, nor is there any reason why Nokia wouldn't want to get a cheap counter to iTunes for their phones; their options are Rhapsody, Napster, and Zune.

Nokia already have their own music store as part of Ovi and it serves way more countries than the Zune store.

If Microsoft want to write a Zune store app for Symbian then there's nothing to stop them (especially after Symbian goes open source). However, I can't see Nokia bundling it with their phones unless it's a North America-only deal.

[Felix Torres]

What are your thoughts on the demographics of a Zune Phone buyer? Answering that question may give us some insight who will make them.

Well, its pretty obvious that the target audience is the same as for the Danger platform. High school/college kids primarily, no? Young adults to a lesser extent. Say 14-24?
They spent half a billion buying those guys up for a reason.
And that demographic is hardly a bastion of WM.

What is so odd about MS doing a two-fold (or three-fold) approach to expanding the reach of the Zune marketplace?

1- MS can't *force* WM phone manufacturers to bundle Zune Marketplace.
(Can you spell antitrust little boys and girls?) At most they can offer it as a download for *users* to add to the phones.

2- MS *could* be making a deal with a *carrier* or two and *they* could be the ones asking it go on a Nokia phone.

3- Or it could be they are dealing with Nokia itself. Its not as if Nokia's music store is doing any better than the various carrier-owned music stores. And, uh, yes, last time I looked Zune hadn't yet reach Europe so it is either NorthAm-only *or* it is part of the euro launch of Zune. Take your pick.

4- Zune is by definition a separate business within MS from WM, just as XBOX is; its even run by many of the same people. Their mission statement doesn't *require* them to play by the same rules as the WMP guys. So yes, it would be odd to see a Zune client of *a* Nokia phone before *a* WM client but hardly impossible. That might be the price of getting Nokia to play ball.

This particular rumor isn't about whether the dog can play chess--he obviously can--but rather, why isn't he chasing cars instead. There is no reason MS *can't* do this: the question we need to ask is, *why* would they?

And then factor in: why did they do Zune as separate from Playsforsure, in the first place? Why buy Danger?

The obvious answer is there are places WM can't, by its nature and roots, go. As great a platform as WM is, it can't go everywhere, do everything, without compromising its strengths. And its strengths are its apps. Its corporate-friendly features. That sold 18 million licenses. But not 20, right? Sounds like there's a wall somewhere...

So why put all your eggs in that one basket? Why not do WM for some markets (which may or not include a Zune client), Danger for others, and yes, if appropriate, deal with Nokia for still others.

Why not?
One size does not fit all, even in pantyhose...

Now, I'm going back to lurking.
I have people to annoy elsewhere...;)

[Rocky Sullivan]

Appreciate this is a Zune thread but as its discussing a possible phone i cant help but talk about Windows Mobile

I am afraid that Microsoft do not know what they are doing with Windows Mobile at the moment, it appears as if they are suffering from a severe lack of direction and a general disconnect across divisions within their own organization.

I think completely converged devices in the form of a mobile phone have been coming for a long time – we knew this was how things were going to develop but Microsoft has not only been very slow to react, it has wasted the good head start it made with Windows Mobile.

They had a winning mobile phone OS three of even four years ago that pummelled the competition in to oblivion but what did they do next;

They split the OS into separate smart phone and professional versions – instead of concentrating on developing the whole thing to be more user friendly for both touch and non touch hardware. While this was seen at the time as a move to a more consumer friendly OS, and the benefits may still be seen in Windows Mobile 7 or 8, it currently looks like it just diluted the focus.

They dabbled with portable Windows Video Players before fooling themselves in to believing that they could produce a music player like the Zune to rival the iPod years after the former was well established in the market place. The Zune may well be a nice device but it was always going to be an “also ran” player in an overcrowded entertainment space where Apple were already king.

Why did they not focus on improving the media capabilities of Windows Mobile and the GUI?

There was even talk (and I think an announcement) of Xbox live integration in to Windows Mobile over 2 years ago, but we have seen nothing since.

When are Microsoft going to get their act together and start to really bring everything together – a Nokia Windows Mobile device could be great - but I have no interest in seeing a Nokia Zune device at all.

[inteller]

i can see one reason Microsoft would do this. Get their music client on every handset and bypass the carriers. If they make it to the point where all the handset makers have Zune on them, then ******* operators like att have to take it or they dont get any phone but the iphone.

i can see a world where a unified zune platform that works on all kinds of phones down to stupid feature phones would be a powerful competitor.

[Jason Dunn]

Nokia already have their own music store as part of Ovi and it serves way more countries than the Zune store.

A good point. And I also have a hard time believing that the Zune team, who clearly as on the path Apple-inspired path of "we own the software, we own the hardware, we control the experience to make it great" would want to get into the ugly world of having lots of different hardware devices link up into their software. Who gets the tech support call when someone's Nokia phone stops playing back the DRM'd Zune tracks? It just seems hugely messy to me.

[caywen]

I think the Zune phone will be a CE-based device with a super customized version of WinMo7. To compete with the iPhone experience, I think the Zune team will take an internal version of WinMo7, strip it down, optimize it for a specific hardware spec, and build a non-WinMo UI on it.

Remember, it has to be a phone first, and it also needs a browser and media support, etc. I just don't see MS trying to reinvent what it already has this time around.