Apple's MobileMe Service: Powerful Stuff?

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.apple.com/mobileme/' target='_blank'>http://www.apple.com/mobileme/</a><br /><br /></div><img border="1" alt="" src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/600/spt/auto/1213049643.usr1.jpg" /><br /><br />Something big happened today: Apple announced what I believe is the first credible consumer-focused Exchange-like service: the ability to sync calendar, contacts, email, files, and photos to multiple devices. Jump over to Apple's Web site and check out their <a target="_blank" href="http://www.apple.com/mobileme/">MobileMe service</a>. Watching the <a target="_blank" href="http://www.apple.com/mobileme/guidedtour/">guided tour video</a> is probably the best way to understand what the service is capable of. I watched that as well, and the word &quot;compelling&quot; kept swirling around in my head. This is a powerful salvo across the bow of the SS Microsoft - and I have a sneaking suspicion that Microsoft's Live team has been paying so much attention to Google they didn't see this one coming (not in a way they can respond to quickly at least).<br /><br />Microsoft has had all the pieces for years: Exchange, Foldershare, Windows Mobile, Live Mail, etc...but they never put them together into a compelling service. What about hosted Exchange? The functionality from hosted Exchange isn't that far off (though the photo and file sharing is lacking), but let's face it, hosted Exchange as it is now is in no way consumer friendly - from the name to the features to the marketing to the partners...even the pricing isn't all that friendly when you're talking multiple users. The MobileMe <a target="_blank" href="http://www.apple.com/mobileme/pricing/">pricing is quite reasonable</a> in comparison to most hosted Exchange accounts: MobileMe is $99/year for 20 GB of storage, or $149 per year for a five-person family account. 20 GB of extra storage costs $49/year extra, and 40 GB of storage is an extra $99/year. Your average hosted Exchange account costs $120 to $180 per year for 2 or 3 GB of storage.<br /><br />Now I'm sure like all Apple products and services, there are some nasty &quot;gotcha's&quot; under the surface (does this service work with custom domain emails?), and for some people this service might be too simplistic. I know I'm very happy with how hosted Exchange works for me (I use <a target="_blank" href="http://www.4smartphone.net">4smartphone</a>), and it's tough to beat <a target="_blank" href="http://www.smugmug.com">Smugmug</a> for photos. Still, there's no denying that this is a strong initial offering from Apple - that's my take on it at least. What do you think?

[lagsun]

I can also see Apple integrating Time Machine with MobileMe down the road so Mac users can have online backup of their data too.

[Dyvim]

The thing that might get me is the Outlook support on PC. That and a 60-day free trial. I currently have all my Contacts and Calendars in Outlook on my PC, but recently purchased a MacBook for personal use. I've been looking for something that could sync my Calendar and Contacts between Outlook on all my PCs, our familiy's 2 iPhones, and the MacBook, plus have an online backup somewhere and be able to access it all from some Internet Cafe computer when I'm somewhere else without a laptop. I'm not so worried about email because I'm using IMAP and although it doesn't offer push email to the iPhone, it's a good way to "sync" email between all your devices. I've been trying to use Google and Gmail but running into some issues. If MobileMe can do it, then I'm in even at the relatively steep price of $99/yr (or $149 for our family). We'll see...

[Pat Logsdon]

I find it amusing that it uses the ActiveSync framework (the money quote is at 2:13):

Apple's iPhone 2.0: $199, 3G, On Sale July 11 (AAPL) - Silicon Alley Insider (http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/6/live_steve_jobs_at_wwdc)

[ajwalker]

Eh.:rolleyes:

This has been around the Windows /Office/ Windows Mobile world for awhile. Microsoft was simply to bass-ackwards to put it together in such a slick package.

This is what Windows Live should have been from day one. Now they are going in yet another crazy direction with Windows Mesh instead of delivering on the potential of Windows Live (which I use extensively BTW).

Add the fact it's powered by Microsoft tech on the downlow makes it even more ridiculous.

The other tech blogs are already talking about how "revolutionary" this is and falling all over themselves praising Apple.

This isn't new, just been given a spiffy new Apple coat of paint.;)

[Underwater Mike]

This isn't new, just been given a spiffy new Apple coat of paint.;)

True, but it's a lot nicer paint than the mess we got with WM (and, yes, I do have hosted Exchange).

The only thing I feel that the new iPhone could really use is an SD slot, but I guess I'll live. Come JUL, I'll say goodbye to 8 years of PPC/WM use and hundreds of dollars of WM software. I'm just sick of the ******** and ready for a change.

[Jason Dunn]

This has been around the Windows /Office/ Windows Mobile world for awhile.

How so? If you mean hosted Exchange (email + calendar + contacts), Foldershare (file sync), OneCare (photo backup)...maybe Live Photos? There's not much in the way of mobile solutions though - no mobile photos or mobile file solutions. So how is this the same as Apple's offering?

This is what Windows Live should have been from day one. Now they are going in yet another crazy direction with Windows Mesh instead of delivering on the potential of Windows Live (which I use extensively BTW).

I agree that Windows Live should have delivered on this long ago. I disagree though about Live Mesh - it seems far more flexible than FolderShare, and I think Live Mesh is the building block upon which Microsoft can come up with something to compete with MobileMe. But when will they do it - a year from now? Two? They move so slowly.

This isn't new, just been given a spiffy new Apple coat of paint.

The thing about software services is that the "coat of paint" matters. The difference between a tightly integrated suite of services (MobileMe) and a random gather of disparate software and services (Exchange + Foldershare + Windows Live + OneCare) is very significant and shouldn't be underestimated.

[ajwalker]

I agree that Windows Live should have delivered on this long ago. I disagree though about Live Mesh - it seems far more flexible than FolderShare, and I think Live Mesh is the building block upon which Microsoft can come up with something to compete with MobileMe. But when will they do it - a year from now? Two? They move so slowly.



The thing about software services is that the "coat of paint" matters. The difference between a tightly integrated suite of services (MobileMe) and a random gather of disparate software and services (Exchange + Foldershare + Windows Live + OneCare) is very significant and shouldn't be underestimated.

Jason, I am not disagreeing with you, or anyone for that matter. I think Microsoft severly missed the boat on this one, having had a number of disparate initiatives floating around for a long time.

Exchange, which does what MobileMe is doing sans photos, has been with Outlook since 2000. It's a shame that they just recently started letting you sync other accounts in Office 2007 but, in Office 2003, they wanted to charge to be able to synce Hotmail with Outlook to be able to sync to your Windows Mobile phone.:confused::o:mad:

Some things should have been no brainers. Microsoft moves far too slow and I doubt if we'll see anything from Live Mesh anytime soon.

IMHO, they should have left Windows Live alone and brought those features to WL instead of announcing yet another new thing that could be at least a year in the making.

Yes, the coat of paint matters a great deal. And once again, Microsoft is off painting the bird house when the main house is what needed the attention. Apple's moving in and changing all the locks.

Apple provided a "turn-key" solution out of the box. Microsoft is still bumbling toward irrelevancy when it comes to a new paradigm and understanding how people want to use technology.

[inteller]

Microsoft has this TODAY, but the EFFIN carriers won't let them put it on the phone. ATT for instance EXPLICITLY stripped Windows Live Mobile from the WM6 phones it carries. If I were Microsoft I would start saying FU to the carriers just like Apple did to ATT and put whatever they want on the phone.

[Jason Dunn]

If I were Microsoft I would start saying FU to the carriers just like Apple did to ATT and put whatever they want on the phone.

Yeah, every Mobius and MVP Summit I keep suggesting that, although not exactly in those terms. :D

[ajwalker]

Microsoft has this TODAY, but the EFFIN carriers won't let them put it on the phone. ATT for instance EXPLICITLY stripped Windows Live Mobile from the WM6 phones it carries. If I were Microsoft I would start saying FU to the carriers just like Apple did to ATT and put whatever they want on the phone.

I've been a strong advocate of that since Apple released the iPhone.:mad:

If Apple got that sweet deal, why didn't Microsoft, do the same? Especially now that they own Danger (though those reasons still are perfectly clear if they aren't going to put Windows Mobile on the device).

Even if they simply sold the phone from their own website it would be better than being hamstrung for the immediate release of WinMo 6.1 by the carriers who have their own agenda to worry about.:rolleyes:

Heck, they don't even have to sell a phone, just offer every software upgrade straight from Microsoft.

I can understand working in partnership with partners but a free upgrade for everything from 6.0 to 6.9. I can understand Windows Mobile 7 needed an upgrade to phone specs but ....

Anyway, I digress.:o

Let's just leave it at I agree with Inteller.

[Mikey]

I think your site may want to make the switch to covering all smartphones, especially the iPHONE.

After years of WM & 1 Palm, my 1st HPC, then my Palm 3c & then Jornada, followed by numerous iPAQ's, WM/Pocket PC's, & finally trying to converge 1st w/ a 8125, then a Tilt & Treo 750, my conclusion is iPHONE is SUPERIOR. iPHONE's very rarely, if ever lock up, & Mobile web browsing is da bomb, straight outta the box! With the additiona of Pocket Informant coming out on an iPHONE, I will be making the switch & the x50v will be on eBAY!

I also just received my last Smartphone magazine in the mail for its dumbed down content & lack of anything worthwhile coming out that really competes with the iPHONE. Sadly, MS had the chance to stay on top with Palm as a competitor but they have fallen so far behind it's pitiful. Just a rant with the iPHONE buzz that's out today!

[Mikey]

True, but it's a lot nicer paint than the mess we got with WM (and, yes, I do have hosted Exchange).

The only thing I feel that the new iPhone could really use is an SD slot, but I guess I'll live. Come JUL, I'll say goodbye to 8 years of PPC/WM use and hundreds of dollars of WM software. I'm just sick of the ******** and ready for a change.

Mike, you said it better than I did!!! & I also have spent thousands on WM devices along with hundreds on WM software. Sad Day!

[kanzlr]

in fact its easy to beat smugmug. while their galleries are nice, their backend for managing them is very primitive and cumbersome.
i switched to zenfolioo. similar, but better looking galleries and a superb web 2.0esque backend.

there are eveb free gallery migration tools

[humayunl]

Am I the only one using Tasks on my WM device??

I must be... because every time there is talk of Exchange support on the iPhone or about mobileme etc. and people start comparing it to existing offerings, no one mentions the lack synchronization with Outlook Tasks and the fact that is a major deal breaker for someone who uses them extensively! (like me)

ajwalker, Jason - everyone else not complaining about tasks: are you guys secretly using something else to manage tasks and todo's that you can somehow synchronize over exchange without explicit support for task synchronization (on the iphone)?

I know Outlook on Macs doesn't have task support. And as far as I know, there's no timeframe or word on when this may be available on Outlook for Mac and/or iPhone.

I am only wondering why no one complains about it enough... I mean its a very big deal for me and I would think a lot of people use tasks... then again, maybe not. Maybe I should stop too and be happy and buy an iPhone. Life would be simpler with fewer things to do when there's no one to remind me :)

[MAK11]

Some random thoughts..Everything MobileME is already avaible for free elsewhere.. Live (skydrive,exchange (mail2web is free..)), Google docs, Yahoo! etc...
How many people realize the Apple's MobileMe is using Microsoft's ActiveSync Framework and Exchange ( $->MS) and that calling ActiveSync; "ActiveStink" on stage during the presentation was beyond ridiculous?
The only thing that stinks is Apple's constant idiot juvenile attitude.
All Apple did is wrap ActiveSync and Exchange in a flash/ajax website and charge 99$/y for it.

[Dyvim]

All Apple did is wrap ActiveSync and Exchange in a flash/ajax website and charge 99$/y for it.
No, that is a part of what they did but it is not all they did. Blind anti-Apple bashing is just as juvenile as Apple fanboi-ism IMO. And if you don't have an Exchange server through your work, where pray tell do you get hosted Exchange for free for your WM device? And does it sync photos and files? And does it sync to native Mac applications on your Mac (I'm not talking about syncing to Office for Mac) and Outlook on your PCs? I'm not sure how well this all works, but I'll definitely be checking out the free trial come July. If it does work, they will have provided a great cross-platform (Mac+PC) information syncing solution.

I agree that the ActiveStink comment was a low blow and not befitting of them, but weren't they referring to the desktop to mobile Sync component (also known as Windows Mobile Device Center under Vista)? That component truly is worthy of the name "ActiveStink" and has been called such by many WM fans on this and many other PPC-fan sites.

[inteller]

How many people realize the Apple's MobileMe is using Microsoft's ActiveSync Framework and Exchange ( $->MS) and that calling ActiveSync; "ActiveStink" on stage during the presentation was beyond ridiculous?

well ActiveSync is SOO last year. Windows Mobile Device Center is a cinch.

I think for Exchange Activesync Microsoft needs to take the approach with enterprises that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" I currently have zero problems with Exchange Activesync pushing to my phone. The blackberry server solution is stupid too....all that overhead just to sync with a blackberry. rubbish. Microsoft currently owns the enterprise, and they need to take active steps to defend that area while rolling up a consumer solution based on live services. Today is the day to take a stand with the carriers. Offer a WCDMA Zune phone to consumers with all the Live bits installed on it. Sell it direct to the retail channels for $199, skip the carriers altogether.

[Jason Dunn]

ajwalker, Jason - everyone else not complaining about tasks: are you guys secretly using something else to manage tasks and todo's that you can somehow synchronize over exchange without explicit support for task synchronization (on the iphone)?

No, I don't really use tasks anymore. I know I should, but on the Outlook side of things I set up a fairly sophisticated series of colour-coded categories, and none of that carries over to the Windows Mobile side of things so I kind of gave up.

You're right though, for users of tasks, MobileMe doesn't seem to offer anything useful.

[Darius Wey]

... and that calling ActiveSync; "ActiveStink" on stage during the presentation was beyond ridiculous?

I agree that the ActiveStink comment was a low blow and not befitting of them, but weren't they referring to the desktop to mobile Sync component (also known as Windows Mobile Device Center under Vista)? That component truly is worthy of the name "ActiveStink" and has been called such by many WM fans on this and many other PPC-fan sites.

To be fair, Phil was trying to calm the crowd down after realizing what was said. I think it was more a Freudian slip than an intentional dig.

[Darius Wey]

I know Outlook on Macs doesn't have task support. And as far as I know, there's no timeframe or word on when this may be available on Outlook for Mac and/or iPhone.

Outlook for Macs no longer exists. Are you perhaps referring to Entourage? That supports tasks, although they can't be synced with Exchange, unfortunately.

[stevew]

We've all been saying Microsoft has missed the boat for awhile now. The bottom line is that MS just isn't passionate about Windows Mobile anymore and it shows.

[Jason Dunn]

We've all been saying Microsoft has missed the boat for awhile now. The bottom line is that MS just isn't passionate about Windows Mobile anymore and it shows.

I sometimes think that, but then I meet with the teams and the people involved and they definitely are passionate about making the product better.

[Phillip Dyson]

I sometimes think that, but then I meet with the teams and the people involved and they definitely are passionate about making the product better.

I think its just a matter of MS moving away from being a technology company and concentrating more on what they consider return on investment. Unfortunately their products suffer for it.

[ajwalker]

Am I the only one using Tasks on my WM device??


ajwalker, Jason - everyone else not complaining about tasks: are you guys secretly using something else to manage tasks and todo's that you can somehow synchronize over exchange without explicit support for task synchronization (on the iphone)?


I am only wondering why no one complains about it enough... I mean its a very big deal for me and I would think a lot of people use tasks... then again, maybe not. Maybe I should stop too and be happy and buy an iPhone. Life would be simpler with fewer things to do when there's no one to remind me :)

I use Task (not as much as I should but I DO use it) but they are primarily generated on my Windows Mobile device using Agenda One than through Outlook, mostly because my phone is not connected to my work. I use Task and Calendar for my "real" life and my business.

What really keeps me from going full on with Tasks is the lack of GTD type arrangement native to Outlook Task:mad:.

I wish either Microsoft or a third party would create a hiearchical tree view for task that would sync to all flavors of Windows Mobile.:mad:

If Xonbi can create a very useful and popular plug in for Outlook, why can't someone solve the lack of functionality in Tasks????:mad:

I've seen several other Outlook clones that have this functionality. If they synced natively with my WinMo phone, I'd would stop using Outlook because the others have more features.

[txa1265]

I have always used Tasks, but for a number of years was on more exploratory, long range projects and my WM usage waned ... now I'm back in more 'engineering mode' and Tasks is a major need.

[stevew]

I sometimes think that, but then I meet with the teams and the people involved and they definitely are passionate about making the product better.


Maybe so but there is a weak link in the chain somewhere. The people doing all the work may be enthusiastic but it's not getting to the street.

[ajwalker]

Maybe so but there is a weak link in the chain somewhere. The people doing all the work may be enthusiastic but it's not getting to the street.


No, it's not getting to the street.

Where's our 6.1 upgrade?:mad:

Why is it taking so long??:mad::mad:

how can Microsoft expect us to continue to think they take Windows Mobile seriously when there is such a deafening silence about what is going on with an upgrade?

I can understand not wanting to tip their hat (too much) about Windows Mobile 7, but they should be feeding the press and pundits a steady stream of whatever information they can come up with to show that Windows Mobile is still relevant to the company.

Whoever is now in charge of Windows Mobile should be on the press circuit "Hey folks, look what we've got going in the Windows Mobile world."

They should be doing that at least weekly and not just from some Windows Mobile blog that you have to already have in your RSS feed. I mean face to face, on the phone, at tech conventions, real interviews, etc.

Otherwise, the lack of news, of visibility, makes it appear they just don't care.

[efjay]

I sometimes think that, but then I meet with the teams and the people involved and they definitely are passionate about making the product better.

The teams and individuals may be passionate but do they have the power to implement changes/improvements? Whenever a cool app from MS is released it always seems to be isolated from the rest of the OS, for example Windows Live Search offers identical featurs to Google maps plus voice activated searching but you dont see any intergration into the OS functions and its hardly offered as part of the value added apps on new devices yet Gmaps is touted so much you would not think there was another app with the same features. There has been one attempt at intergrating it with another app, in this case it was announced that Copilot 7 would connect to Live Search and allow you to map addresses directly but so far this appears to be another vapourware feature. This separation continues to hurt WM and mobileme has highlighted this once again. Its even more ironic since this service is built on Exchange Activesync,

I sorely wish I could give the WM division of MS a good kick in the pants, how much longer will they sit back and watch their competition gain market share while they actively give away their best features?!

[ctmagnus]

I'm also concerned about the lack of Tasks synchronization. Sure, there are a bazillion Remember The Milk-type sites out there, but native is always better imo. Categories worry me also. Does it do category sync, or is the nice, colourful calendar on the Apple site a result of synching multiple Outlook calendars?

Either way, the promise of Pocket Informant for this platform should go a long ways towards alleviating these two issues.

[ajwalker]

I sorely wish I could give the WM division of MS a good kick in the pants, how much longer will they sit back and watch their competition gain market share while they actively give away their best features?!

Microsoft and the entire Windows Mobile team needs a serious intervention if you ask me.

I don't mind them giving components away like Exchange, but geez Louise, take care of home first. You know, the folks who've committed to Windows Mobile already?

We should always be able to go the Windows Mobile site and download any and every upgrade independent of carrier or device.

(Easily done by Microsoft by not allowing carriers to remove, change, alter or "break" stuff already included in the WinMo OS. They should only be allowed to put stuff on their that enhances Windows Mobile, not make it impossible for Microsoft to roll out timely updates and improvements).

Bill Gates needs to think seriously about "un"retiring before the people he left in charge completely destroy the company.

There are simply too many new threats and old nemesis's now for him to "ride off into the sunset" and think everything will be fine.

[Phronetix]

It is painfully obvious to us who are either solely or predominantly Mac users that Apple does not place importance upon task management. It is a philosophical decision for them. Be that as it may, it certainly would not kill them to write a iPhone Cocoa app for synchronizing with the To-Do's in iCal. This is the least they could do. From my vantage point, they are only partway to where they want to be with this.

I do suspect this is a Steve Jobs decision, and it has resulted in me no longer using tasks. I simply email myself and place it into an Action Items folder. The thing is, it works for me very well.

That obviously does not solve the issue for those using Windows world who want something better on the iPhone. Here is hoping that with the App Store, this changes. I don't know how easy it will be to access sync services, or sync with Outlook via Exchange. Omnifocus (http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omnifocus/iphone/) is already ironing out a beta of their iPhone task/project/GTD app. It seems to be for the Mac only, especially in light of the fact that it will sync with their Mac desktop product.

I have emailed a friend at WWDC to see what he has seen or heard thus far on this issue. He's working on an iPhone version of his site. Seeing as how I am accessing his Mac/iPhone expertise, here is a shameless plug (http://www.shoptoit.ca).

Personally, right now, I am trying to make Reqall (http://www.reqall.com) work for me, as it enables me to call a number with tasks, then see them later on my list. It's slick, but maybe not much more trouble than sending an email to myself. It all feels very ad hoc in task land for me these days.

Dennis

[Tim Williamson]

I've wondered the same thing about Tasks...

I'm a heavy Tasks user, I use the method of setting up location-based task categories (@Home, @Phone, @Computer, etc.), and I'm really good at entering them into my Dash and setting reminders, but not so good at getting them checked off :o...but I digress...I'm really surprised the iPhone doesn't have the ability to sync Tasks yet. It's a must-have feature for me to have advanced Task functionality, but I'm guessing a 3rd-party developer will come up with a solution eventually. I'm wondering what WebIS has up their sleeves with Pocket Informant for iPhone (iPI ? ;))...

[beq]

AFAIK,

the fact that the iPhone 2.0 firmware licenses Microsoft Exchange ActiveSync to enable the iPhone/iPod Touch to sync with Exchange Servers, is separate and unrelated to the MobileMe service.

In other words iPhone users have two choices for getting push email -- from an Exchange Server (via integrated Exchange ActiveSync support), or from MobileMe (via a different method/protocol). Licensing Exchange ActiveSync is important to woo business customers, as Nokia, Palm, Motorola and Sony Ericsson have also done. But for consumers Apple is pitching MobileMe as a replacement.

Correct me if I'm wrong?

[ctmagnus]

But for consumers Apple is pitching <layer id="google-toolbar-hilite-2" style="background-color: Yellow; color: black;">MobileMe</layer> as a replacement.

Correct me if I'm wrong?

For the majority of users, yes.

[Rocco Augusto]

I sometimes think that, but then I meet with the teams and the people involved and they definitely are passionate about making the product better.

Hopefully something better comes out soon. Lately it seems like all the other smartphone device makers are coming out with something new and improved all the time and we're still on our slow once a year update schedule where we suffer at the hands of the carrier waiting for them to actually release the update for our devices. :confused:

[J4yDubs]

The thing about software services is that the "coat of paint" matters. The difference between a tightly integrated suite of services (MobileMe) and a random gather of disparate software and services (Exchange + Foldershare + Windows Live + OneCare) is very significant and shouldn't be underestimated.
I think this might be on purpose. Microsoft seems to be moving away from end user products and instead is selling technology and frameworks. License the tech to other companies and let them handle the hard work of putting lipstick on it. I'm seeing this is a bunch of different areas that Microsoft is involved in (WM being one). Microsoft still get thier money, and doesn't have to work as hard.

John

[Janak Parekh]

It is painfully obvious to us who are either solely or predominantly Mac users that Apple does not place importance upon task management. It is a philosophical decision for them. Be that as it may, it certainly would not kill them to write a iPhone Cocoa app for synchronizing with the To-Do's in iCal. This is the least they could do. From my vantage point, they are only partway to where they want to be with this. Excellent summary, Phronetix. I definitely miss task ability on my iPhone, and task management in iCal is mediocre at best.

BTW, it's worth mentioning that Exchange ActiveSync did not support Tasks initially, until WM5. Entourage still doesn't support Task sync with Exchange, either. I have a feeling business folks, who seem to be (finally?) getting attention from Apple now, will tell them loudly that tasks are important. Let's see if Apple responds.

--janak

[Janak Parekh]

I think this might be on purpose. Microsoft seems to be moving away from end user products and instead is selling technology and frameworks. Not quite -- I think it's a bit worse than this. They're actually fragmenting amongst themselves. On one side, there's WM, Exchange, etc. On the other side, there's Xbox, Zune, Danger, etc. To me, this seems so incredibly ripe for synergy (why is the Zune not using WM?, etc.), and Apple seems to be going down that path with their "OS X Touch". It mystifies me why Microsoft doesn't, and instead allows this form of splintering. I've heard the "simplicity" argument, and that just doesn't cut it for me. Sure, play with the front UI if you like, redesign it, etc. -- but reuse the base OS, APIs, and technologies, and allow them to interoperate where it makes sense!

--janak

[ajwalker]

Not quite -- I think it's a bit worse than this. They're actually fragmenting amongst themselves. On one side, there's WM, Exchange, etc. On the other side, there's Xbox, Zune, Danger, etc. To me, this seems so incredibly ripe for synergy (why is the Zune not using WM?, etc.), and Apple seems to be going down that path with their "OS X Touch". It mystifies me why Microsoft doesn't, and instead allows this form of splintering. I've heard the "simplicity" argument, and that just doesn't cut it for me. Sure, play with the front UI if you like, redesign it, etc. -- but reuse the base OS, APIs, and technologies, and allow them to interoperate where it makes sense!

--janak

I have wondered the same thing.:confused:

Why doesn't the Zune run Windows Mobile? Even if it was a slightly modified version?:confused:

Why isn't the XBox 360 running embedded Windows XP? or Vista? With a custom shell, it would be invisible to the end user. Wouldn't putting in a fast processor and dedicated, high-end graphics chip essentially do the same thing as the current model?:confused:

Apple's approach was outstanding. From what I've heard as a layman, it's a stripped down version of OSX. Sorta like mini OSX embedded.

Doesn't make sense when Microsoft already has the software platforms. Why keep reinventing the wheel?:confused:

[Janak Parekh]

Why doesn't the Zune run Windows Mobile? Even if it was a slightly modified version?:confused:

Why isn't the XBox 360 running embedded Windows XP? or Vista? With a custom shell, it would be invisible to the end user. Wouldn't putting in a fast processor and dedicated, high-end graphics chip essentially do the same thing as the current model?:confused: So I wasn't being completely clear. I do believe Xbox runs some form of an embedded Windows OS. However, it's almost as if it is too embedded/separated, in my opinion. I'd much rather see it as a standardized platform for all of Microsoft's set-top efforts, and compatible with the standard Windows environment where reasonable/possible, and opened to allow third-party innovation.

I understand Microsoft's principle in that regard: they're competing in a different market (the gaming market), and so want to set up their console similar to the efforts by Nintendo, Sony, et. al. But I think this is an area where Microsoft could differentiate and carve up a niche even more effectively if they play their cards right, which they haven't done so far.

Now, the Zune is truly a fragmentation. I would love a platform like OS X Touch, with a great media player experience plus expansion possible as a PDA. However, WM has a terrible media playback experience, while the Zune has a great media playback experience but a terrible PDA experience. Sigh. Microsoft could have sewn this market up years ago, but they never bothered to.

--janak

[ajwalker]

Now, the Zune is truly a fragmentation. I would love a platform like OS X Touch, with a great media player experience plus expansion possible as a PDA. However, WM has a terrible media playback experience, while the Zune has a great media playback experience but a terrible PDA experience. Sigh. Microsoft could have sewn this market up years ago, but they never bothered to.

--janak

Here again this just underscores my point.:mad:

There are a number of great media players from third-party developers that solve the anemic Windows Media Player Mobile.

If they could do it, why couldn't Microsoft?:confused:

Windows Mobile just doesn't seem to be that high on their priority list, even now that they face increasingly stiff competition.:o

[mgartner]

Apple's approach was outstanding. From what I've heard as a layman, it's a stripped down version of OSX. Sorta like mini OSX embedded.

Except the UI layer (which is Cocoa Touch) the iPhone runs nearly the same OSX version as a common MacOS Desktop machine. This is not a stripped down version of OSX.

[mgartner]

I've wondered the same thing about Tasks...

I'm a heavy Tasks user, I use the method of setting up location-based task categories (@Home, @Phone, @Computer, etc.), and I'm really good at entering them into my Dash and setting reminders, but not so good at getting them checked off :o...but I digress...I'm really surprised the iPhone doesn't have the ability to sync Tasks yet. It's a must-have feature for me to have advanced Task functionality, but I'm guessing a 3rd-party developer will come up with a solution eventually. I'm wondering what WebIS has up their sleeves with Pocket Informant for iPhone (iPI ? ;))...

There will be a superb TaskManager available for the iPhone (currently in beta) which syncs with the desktop, has categories and much more:

http://culturedcode.com/things/

The only problem is, I don't know if the desktop companion will be available also for Windows machines.

[Jason Dunn]

Except the UI layer (which is Cocoa Touch) the iPhone runs nearly the same OSX version as a common MacOS Desktop machine. This is not a stripped down version of OSX.

I'm not an expert on the iPhone, but surely they slimmed it down - how big is an install of OS X normally? And it's not an x86 CPU in the iPhone, so it's compiled differently, right? For ARM? I think when you say "it's really OS X" people will think they can install OS X apps on it...

[ajwalker]

Microsoft has this TODAY, but the EFFIN carriers won't let them put it on the phone. ATT for instance EXPLICITLY stripped Windows Live Mobile from the WM6 phones it carries. If I were Microsoft I would start saying FU to the carriers just like Apple did to ATT and put whatever they want on the phone.

Yup, that gets my goat too.:mad:

They don't let PC makers strip features from Windows XP or Vista, why do they allow that to happen with Windows Mobile?:confused:

Th OS should be the OS - period!:mad:

I don't see Microsoft waiting around for HP, Dell, Gateway or any of the other PC manufacturers to "get around" to releasing OS updates, why do they bend over for a good reaming from the cell companies?:mad:

[Jason Dunn]

They don't let PC makers strip features from Windows XP or Vista, why do they allow that to happen with Windows Mobile?:confused:

In the desktop space they can do whatever they want - and we know how they went too far a few years back. But when Microsoft started in the mobile arena, they were the little guys. They worked very hard to bend over backwards to do whatever the carriers wanted - because the carriers were (and still are, largely) the gateway to the customers. I personally feel that as Microsoft has grown in this market and gained significant market share, they should have started to ramp up their own needs/wants and started to do more on their own. But they really haven't, and we've all suffered as a result.

But guess what? With the way AT&T was willing to bend over backwards for Apple, there's some real hope moving forward that Microsoft will be able to accomplish more.

This remains my #1 pain point with Windows Mobile and at the MVP Summit this year I challenged the General Manager of the Windows Mobile Division on this exact point - I said, point blank, that the ease of use and speed at which Apple has been able to offer updates to iPhone customers should make Microsoft feel embarrassed. He, uh, didn't seem to like that statement very much. :o I don't know if things are going to be better with Windows Mobile 7, but I keep fighting for it! :D

[Janak Parekh]

But guess what? With the way AT&T was willing to bend over backwards for Apple, there's some real hope moving forward that Microsoft will be able to accomplish more. That's the thing, though, right? Apple was a nobody in the smartphone space. Their first attempt with Motorola fell completely flat. And yet, they were able to negotiate deals giving them most of the control. Is it just because Jobs is a megalomaniac that people are willing to listen to? It's not like AT&T even got to see the device before they agreed. Why couldn't Bill have done the same thing?

(I might have just answered my question: if Bill personally had taken up the cause for WM, I think he might have scored much better deals with OEMs and carriers. But, as we know, while Bill supports WM, he's never been its primary champion.)

--janak

[bacchus_3]

I'm not an expert on the iPhone, but surely they slimmed it down - how big is an install of OS X normally? And it's not an x86 CPU in the iPhone, so it's compiled differently, right? For ARM? I think when you say "it's really OS X" people will think they can install OS X apps on it...

Just to slightly correct you Jason (I'm no Mac OS X system guru) but the Mac OS X is readily available for PPC architecture and x86, how much difficult is it to rebuild their system for the iPhone? I don't know the details but their engineers are very smart with making a flexible framework. Think of how small you can have Darwin (OS X's baseline) and it is actually possible.

And I do agree with your last statement that it can confuse people but if you're familiar with the concept of Universal apps you'd have to rethink in just saying you can install any Mac app to any Mac OS X system without first asking if that specific app is built for it, say a PPC Mac or an Intel Mac. :)

It's been quite a while since I switched to a Mac but was still hoping to keep using a WM after a year or two. I'd say that Apple's strategies are quite infectious and I'm sold to their services particularly with MobileMe. One word always comes to mind - "convenience".