Daylight Savings Time Increases Costs

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bal-daylight0303,0,924321.story">http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bal-daylight0303,0,924321.story</a><br /><br />As anyone with a computer knows that pays any attention to the updates their system receives, support personnel for operating systems and time management applications have spent a lot of time preparing daylight savings time patches for all manner of computing devices. We are often told that <a href="http://www.energy.ca.gov/daylightsaving.html">DST saves energy</a>. There was a unique opportunity recently to study this claim as the state of Indiana in the US converted to DST in 2006.<br /><br /><i>"Their finding: Having the entire state switch to daylight-saving time each year, rather than stay on standard time, costs Indiana households an additional $8.6 million in electricity bills. They conclude that the reduced cost of lighting in afternoons during daylight-saving time is more than offset by the higher air-conditioning costs on hot afternoons and increased heating costs on cool mornings. "I've never had a paper with such a clear and unambiguous finding as this," says Mr. Kotchen, who presented the paper at a National Bureau of Economic Research conference this month."</i><br /><br />So you save a bit on some incandescent lighting. More and more people are switching to the florescent bulbs in their lights anyway, which saves a ton of energy. What is happening though is people are cranking up the AC when they get home an hour earlier because the house is warmer and turning up the heat a bit in the morning because it is still dark and the sunlight hasn't had a chance to creep into your windows providing a bit of warmth. Don't you just love it when politicians get it in their head some preconceived notion of how the world works and start driving forward oblivious to the facts? And who pays? You and I. And that doesn't account for the time wasted by IT departments and end users trying to figure out the various tool to fix their software to correspond to the ever changing DST rules around the world.<br /><br />I'd be perfectly happy if they just got rid of DST and if politicians would quit telling me how the world works and legislating my behavior to fit <i>their</i> idea of being a good steward of the planet.

[Kevin Jackson]

Amen, brother!

&lt;:soapbox:>

I am tired of the government butting in where they clearly don't belong. I, unfortunately, live in Indiana. Before the change to DST came along we were one of the last bastions of sanity in the US (now that distinction belongs solely to AZ, AFAIK). Okay, we did have some issues due to the fact that a handful (maybe a dozen or so) counties observed DST where the rest did not, but it was left up to the discretion of the county, not the state, who observed DST.

I am tired of politicians with no local interest making local laws that affect those who have no say in the choices made for them by the all-knowing, all-wise and all-too-powerful politicians who are supposedly serving us.

&lt;/:soapbox:>

[Pdaholic]

Not to mention that I hate having to get up a friggin' hour earlier!!!

Leave the dang clocks alone!

[whydidnt]

Let me be a lone dissenter. I like DST! I wish it was always in effect. I'm just not a morning person, so the the later the sun comes up the better as far as I'm concerned. :D

However, I agree with most of the political sentiments posted hear. There is no legitimate reason for our federal government to messing around with our clocks. It's just very small example of the kinds of things the feds get involved in that are a such a waste. Can anyone explain to me the logic of Federal Congressional Hearings regarding Steroids in baseball? Don't we have any other more pressing issues to deal with? Why don't we have congressional hearings on cocaine use of Movie Stars?

I often think our founding fathers would throw up on their shoes if they saw how large and all encompassing the Federal Government had become! :lol:

[Kevin Jackson]

Don't get me started on the steroids thing.

Do I think steroids should be used by professional athletes? Probably not.

Do I think that Congress should be holding hearings about professional athletes using steroids? Absolutely not!

Just one of the very many ways they continually overstep their bounds.

However, we the people are complicit in all of it. It's easier to let the government take care of perceived problems than it is to get up off of our keisters and do something about it ourselves. We like the idea of a nanny state until they start doing something we don't like. I'm just as guilty as anyone else in this.

Whoops . . . this thread is about DST, isn't it. Sorry :oops: I will truly get down off my soapbox now.

[Joelacrane]

No idea if this one is true or not... but i heard that they are outlawing incandescent light bulbs in 4 years or so, everything will have to be florescent. Argh!

[stuxstu]

However, we the people are complicit in all of it. It's easier to let the government take care of perceived problems than it is to get up off of our keisters and do something about it ourselves. We like the idea of a nanny state until they start doing something we don't like. I'm just as guilty as anyone else in this.


Amen brother/sister/whatever....

I live in Indiana and have also lived in 5 other states, DST is worthless. Time in not real... I could call it 1pm or "25 to 7 or 6 to 4" and it can mean the same thing.

As for our founding fathers... The "Government" is the people... you and I are the owners and therefore we are the government. The problem is we learned to vote for the idiot who offers us the most. We will spend ourselves into oblivion, socialize ourselves into the Nanny State and then we won't understand why we are no longer the world power we want to be.

9 Trillion in debt, a service based economy, and addicted to Wal-Mart... We're toast....

Ok Rant over...

BTW - Mitch Daniels (Indiana Gov) will have a lot of trouble getting re-elected because of DST and few other things....

[ddwire]

I would like one time too. But I want Daylight saving time year round..

I hate Standard time, I want the day light in the evening when I get home from work to get stuff done. I could care less about dark in morning, just off to work any way. Plus I do not set back my stat, in my house I have found it saves $0. vs set and forget!

[Wasp]

The energy issue was the original justification, but I believe another common proposed reason for DST was to eliminate children from going to school in the dark. Is it a good reason?

[TTown]

No idea if this one is true or not... but i heard that they are outlawing incandescent light bulbs in 4 years or so, everything will have to be florescent. Argh!

The feds are going to require us to all have the new HD lights! Have you seen the new HD lights. The light is incredibly clear. It is as if the light were in the same room.

To stay on topic... I like having more daylight after work. I would prefer DST year around as well. Am I the only golfer? Probably more of an issue for the northern states though!

[gibson042]

Question for DST fans: why not just go to work earlier?

[PPCRules]

No idea if this one is true or not... but i heard that they are outlawing incandescent light bulbs in 4 years or so, everything will have to be florescent. Argh!

At which time we will be experiencing the biggest toxic waste crisis the country has ever had, and flourescents will be banned and we'll be switching to LED lighting. Let's get off this flourescent thing (likely driven by manufacturers' lobbyists) and go right to LED a couple years later [than the flourescent timeline].

As for DST, I'd back year-around DST. I'm skeptical of this report; I'd suspect it comes out a wash, but I think the convenience favors doing DST. Switching twice a year probably cost national productivity more than any actual cost difference for one mode or the other, so just switch and stay there.

[mbranscum]

Ed,

What you're not factoring in here is the businesses that make extra money by running later in the day due to increased lighting. Businesses that by their very nature could not start earlier in the day regardless or the light.

Many service businesses need that extra daylight to complete their workday and by doing away with it, you woul dcost them many extra dollars.

EXAMPLE: I am a home inspector. During the summer months I can complete 1-2 more inspections per day. At $300 per inspection that adds up to alot of extra income. No, I cannot start earlier because people don't want me showing up at their house at 5 or 6 in the morning!

I just don't feel that its a fair assessment to only consider energy savings or loss.

[Dyvim]

Question for DST fans: why not just go to work earlier?
Maybe we should ask our bosses that? I realize that time is relative and I could call it what I want, but my boss expects me to work from 8am-5pm for whatever the local time is declared to be, so DST gives me an extra hour of daylight after work in the summer. Yeah, if I could work from 7-4 then it wouldn't make a difference but that's not an option for everyone. ... AND ... if most people did choose to work from 7-4 then they would be waking up earlier and coming home earlier, so the energy cost would be the same as if you had DST and people worked the same exact hours but called it 8-5.

Anyway, count me as one of those people who wish we could have DST all year round! :D

[gibson042]

Question for DST fans: why not just go to work earlier?
Maybe we should ask our bosses that? I realize that time is relative and I could call it what I want, but my boss expects me to work from 8am-5pm for whatever the local time is declared to be, so DST gives me an extra hour of daylight after work in the summer. Yeah, if I could work from 7-4 then it wouldn't make a difference but that's not an option for everyone. ... AND ... if most people did choose to work from 7-4 then they would be waking up earlier and coming home earlier, so the energy cost would be the same as if you had DST and people worked the same exact hours but called it 8-5.

Not everyone keeps the same hours. All owners, many managers, and some workers are free to set their own as long as businesses remain open during peak/core times. Sunlight fans can arrive and leave early, places institute summer hours if they like, and everyone just gets on with their life. "Switch the clock days" are neither necessary nor desirable.

[Dyvim]

"Switch the clock days" are neither necessary nor desirable.
You mean of course: for you. For me they are in fact desirable and considering that I don't live in a perfect world where I can set my own hours they are in fact necessary for me to enjoy that extra hour of daylight.

[gibson042]

"Switch the clock days" are neither necessary nor desirable.
You mean of course: for you. For me they are in fact desirable and considering that I don't live in a perfect world where I can set my own hours they are in fact necessary for me to enjoy that extra hour of daylight.
So it's acceptable to adjust everyone's clocks by government mandate? With that kind of ability to impose your will on others, finding a job where you can arrive and leave an hour earlier should be trivial.

[Christopher]

I haven't quite understood why Ed Hansberry has to use the Pocketpcthoughts to show off his political opinions (and his political ignorance, including labelling a conservative politian in Europe an example of "commies"). But then, people with strong views (but limited knowledge of politics) may find it difficult to find an audience when they do not control the media.

I suggest that Ed Hansberry rushes to protest against politicians in this case too:

http://www.pocketpcaddict.com/forums/front-page-content/22866-texting-safety-next-level.html

Personaly, I think this site would do well by sticking to what they know about. And, certainly, reporting about it when DST seems to be counterproducitive.

But Ed's edit of the PPT isn't necessarily one of the site's strenghts.
Christopher

[Dyvim]

So it's acceptable to adjust everyone's clocks by government mandate? With that kind of ability to impose your will on others, finding a job where you can arrive and leave an hour earlier should be trivial.
Sure. Why not? If you don't like it, start a petition and take action. If enough people agree that DST should be eliminated then eventually it will. Random complaints about the reach of big government are entertaining on blogs (although way off topic here, for which I am being just as guilty, sorry) but serve little practical purpose (aside from letting off steam I guess).

Peace out.

[whydidnt]

I haven't quite understood why Ed Hansberry has to use the Pocketpcthoughts to show off his political opinions (and his political ignorance, including labelling a conservative politian in Europe an example of "commies").
Personaly, I think this site would do well by sticking to what they know about. And, certainly, reporting about it when DST seems to be counterproducitive.

But Ed's edit of the PPT isn't necessarily one of the site's strenghts.
Christopher

Well, to each their own, I guess. One of the things I enjoy most about PPCT is that all posts aren't strictly PPC related. There are several sites out there that do a very good job of delivering strictly PPC news, however this one gives us not only the news, but also "views, rants and raves".

I know nothing of the politician you speak, but do know that US politics lean quite a bit further to the right than European. It's said that our most liberal politician would be the most conservative in most European countries, so there is probably a bit of a culture gap in Ed's view and yours.

Having said all of this, keep in mind, I don't agree with many of Ed's opinions, but again the beauty of this site is that you can disagree as long as you stay civil.

I would say the link provided shows more of "The Nanny State" at work. Imagine the government spending tax dollars to protect people who are distracted of their own accord from walking into a metal pole! I'd imagine most people are bright enough to only do it once, and if not, then perhaps it's helping prove "Survival of the Fittest".

[Ed Hansberry]

Personaly, I think this site would do well by sticking to what they know about. And, certainly, reporting about it when DST seems to be counterproducitive.
1) The site subtitle includes "Views, rants and raves"
2) I marked it "Off Topic." Subscribers can filter out topics that don't interest them.
3) It isn't totally unrealted. Careful reading would have shown that DST changes directly impact PPC users - we've had 3 DST patches to apply since Jan 2007 that I count.

[powder2000]

Keep it up Ed. People who don't like what they hear and have no clear argument would rather you just shut up. I see nothing wrong with your freedom to say what's on your mind. Who knows, maybe at the rate we are moving to the left in the US we will soon have internet police getting called to your house for such a comment. Should we be content with just having the 'news' agencies able to control who's voice is heard?

[Janak Parekh]

Keep it up Ed. People who don't like what they hear and have no clear argument would rather you just shut up. I see nothing wrong with your freedom to say what's on your mind. Who knows, maybe at the rate we are moving to the left in the US we will soon have internet police getting called to your house for such a comment. Should we be content with just having the 'news' agencies able to control who's voice is heard?
Do keep in mind the original complainant was from outside the US. I may disagree with Ed's political opinions, but I think his voice, and opinion, is a great addition to Pocket PC Thoughts.

And, please, let's keep the crap that passes for "news agencies" in the US outside of this discussion. That's another flamewar for another day. :)

--janak

[stlbud]

It's amazing how stupid some people are when it comes to "daylight savings". One local newscaster tried to explain there would be more hours of daylight. The earth doesn't change it's rotation just because some bloody politician tells us to change our clocks!

The study confirms one I did on my own years ago but, there's another issue that doesn't come up often. Automotive accidents and work place accidents increase during the week after the clocks change. I'm sure that helps the economy :roll:

[Phoenix]

I agree that DST achieves nothing - all it does is create more work for everyone in having to fiddle with their watches and clocks twice a year. It messes with our sleep patterns, and now apparently, it wastes an incredible amount of money, among other negative things. Not only that, but not everyone across the the world or even just the States pays attention to it in the same ways, with some regions and cities paying it no mind at all.

And how many people have been late to work, missed arranged transportation, missed appointments, etc., because they forgot to adjust their clocks and watches?

The truth is, no one cares about DST. We just all make the adjustments twice a year like mindless cattle because it's what we're "supposed" to do.

God made time, He made the earth, sun, and everything else in and including the universe; He made man, and He never asked us to fiddle with DST - since we were first created, we have lived just fine within God's design for thousands of years without DST. I think He knew what He was doing better than some silly, mislead politicians. God designed the day and night to function under specific constraints. But when we attempt to re-write the laws of God (which we can't do) and then make silly excuses for it as though it's our job to make adjustments to how we function under God's design for the way He made the sun rise and set each and every day, all we do is mess things up - we waste time, money, and energy, and make ourselves look like fools - and for what? So we can have an extra hour of daylight during a part of the year? Hardly a worthwhile exchange.

And can anyone explain how they think we're creating an extra hour of daylight? That doesn't even make sense! We're not creating anything. We have all the daylight God designed us to have. Adjusting clocks and so forth doesn't change how the sun and earth behave. Besides, if we were meant to have an extra hour of daylight, then God would've designed it that way, and He's the only One who could do so. I mean, when's the last time any of us have created a universe? We can trust God and His design of the earth, sun, and our bodies and how they all work together.

Again, I'm aware of the reason DST was instituted, but it clearly was not worthwhile. It's been defined and redefined on a whim, and all it's done is created confusion, inconvenience, and waste, all across the world. We should just do away with DST altogether, once and for all.

Anyone would be hard-pressed to find even a handful or anything beyond the smallest percentage of people who would really miss it. Who ever hears anyone saying, "Thank God for DST!"?