All That Apple Stuff Today...

[Jason Dunn]

Apple unleashed several new products today, and updates to older products, so I thought I'd jot down some thoughts and reactions about what I read about (this text is adapted from a series of emails I sent to the Mobius email list while discussing this).<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/macworld-keynote2008.png" /><br /><br /><b>Apple Charging $19.95 for the iPod Touch Software Update</b><br />Utterly ridiculous, but it's what Apple does - remember the $2 charge for 802.11n? Apple has the worst type of corporate arrogance imaginable, and almost everyone lets them get away with it. But that's also how they're able to create some pretty impressive products - so you take the bad with the good. Myself, I take none of it (for now - I continue to be tempted by some of their products).<br /><br /><b>iTunes Movie Rentals</b><br />It's so incredibly frustrating seeing Microsoft have all the same pieces - Xbox Live videos, Windows Mobile + Zune hardware - and not do a damn thing with it. Microsoft could have beaten Apple to the punch by more than a year, but there's probably still some committee arguing about it. The Apple solution looks slick, and the pricing looks a bit better than the Xbox Live pricing (I think - points confuse matters somewhat).<br /><!><br /><b>Apple TV v2</b><br />The update looks great, lots of cool features. Finally, the product is no longer a joke - they evolved it to what it should have been when it was first released. The UI is slick, I love it. And at least current Apple TV owners don't need to pay for the upgrade. I finally got access to Xbox Marketplace movies in December, and it was a truly pathetic launch - about 30 movies, no TV shows, only a handful are in HD or even movies you've ever heard of. Apple now had a powerful round-trip solution from TV room to computer to mobile device.<br /><br /><b>MacBook Air</b><br />So it's a thin laptop - is that so exciting? Maybe it's more impressive in person. Multi-touch on the touchpad is pretty cool, though I think it's one of those "makes a great bullet point" but most people won't use it past the first day. Seems like it would be useful in iPhoto more than anywhere else. I watched the demo video for Macbook Air and I had to chuckle at how they made the lack of an optical drive a feature rather than a limitation. The "remote optical drive" thing is pretty slick though. 80 GB 4200 RPM hard drive? Bleh. 5 hours of battery life is good, and I sure wish my XPS M1330 came with a back-lit keyboard! I don't see any mention of a memory card reader either. What's with Apple's hate-on for memory card readers? It's silly their monitors don't have them, but it's inexcusable for a laptop not to have an SD/Memory Stick/XD card slot at the bare minimum. It's like if they didn't invent it, or they don't sell it, it doesn't exist. One USB port? No Ethernet port? No Firewire? This laptop is obviously aimed at a very specific niche, so while it might be a killer solution for some, it doesn't seem to be very well-rounded. I have to admire Apple's engineering though, and it's impressive that Intel designed a smaller CPU for them - I wish more notebook makers would care about making their notebooks as small as possible. Every spare millimetre matters.<br /><br /><b>iPhone January Update</b><br /><a href="http://www.apple.com/iphone/gettingstarted/guidedtourupdate2/large.html">This video was interesting to watch</a>. Apple added significantly useful features to the iPhone only a few months after release - by controlling the hardware, the software, and ultimately the customer, they're able to innovate much faster than Windows Mobile can. We've all known this for a long time, but this is real-world proof of the huge liability that Microsoft finds itself in.<br /><br /><b>Time Capsule</b><br />So this is Apple's answer to Windows Home Server? Seems nice and simple, and has some good features, but it's insane that they didn't make it dual hard drive setup in case the drive fails. I suppose if it's ONLY a backup and no unique data is being stored on it, then you have a copy of that data on your Mac/PC and it's not such a big deal of your Time Capsule drive crashes. But hard drives do fail, "enterprise class" or not.<br /><br />Did anyone else notice how much of this new stuff is "Windows friendly" in terms of inter-operating with a Windows ecosystem? Apple is really stepping into Microsoft's turf, which is quite interesting to see.<br /><br />So what are your thoughts on what Apple unveiled today?<br /><br /><i>Jason Dunn owns and operates <a href="http://www.thoughtsmedia.com">Thoughts Media Inc.</a>, a company dedicated to creating the best in online communities. He enjoys mobile devices, digital media content creation/editing, and pretty much all technology. He lives in Calgary, Alberta, Canada with his lovely wife, and his sometimes obedient dog. He's still not ready to buy a Mac.</i>

[dma1965]

I too am tiring of the arrogance. I do not give a rats ass about the iPhone, the iPod Touch, or the super slim Macbook.

[Russ Smith]

Apple does interoperability really well. To a large extent they make it easy on themselves by specifying both hardware and software (in the case of their PCs, only a small sub-set of Intel hardware), but they do make it all work together. In contrast, it seems as though Microsoft's offerings could just as well have been from different companies as difficult as it is to get them to work together. Vista does a lot better at seeing Windows Mobile devices as media devices, capable of content synching, but it's still way behind Apple's integration of iPod, iTunes, etc. What Microsoft seems to need is a whole set of people whose job would be to make sure various product lines work together (as forethought rather than afterthought). It does seem ironic that Apple, who has always suffered from "Not Invented Here" is actually making steps toward making Macs play well with PCs.

I'm actually not that fond of Apple products, even though I'm running a "Hacintosh" for my daughter to use. Apples big selling point is also their biggest drawback. They lead users by the hand so much that it's a major pain if you want to go a different direction. As an example, Time Machine, their new backup software is quite a nice piece of work. Once you tell it where to store the backup data, you can go backward and within most applications and find your documents as they were before each and every change. However, it fairly quickly fills up backup space with what are probably mostly extraneous copies and, while it works well for documents, it doesn't seem to address being able to restore the full system after a hard-drive failure or something of that sort.

by controlling the hardware, the software, and ultimately the customer, they're able to innovate much faster than Windows Mobile can

Very true. I ultimately like Microsoft's approach better as it allows for a far greater depth of devices, but it's easy to see the advantages of Apple's tighter control.

[JohnJohn]

being an Apple user, 4 macs and one PC left in the house...

Nothing released today has earned me to pull out my wallet. I was hoping for an AppleTV hardware upgrade and possible Blu-Ray intigration. I would love to ditch my TIVO...

However my biggest disappointment of the day was from Microsoft. Office 2008 with no Exchange support for Tasks, Notes or Categories? What a serious joke. Without full Exchange support I have been asking myself why I should keep my WindowsMobile device. Heck why even keep my Exchange account rental? another missed opportunity for Microsoft.

[patrickj]

I think all of those are very good points. The $20 charge - for early adopters again! - is unbelievable. They obviously feel like the iPhone price cut thing went well.
I also think your comments about Apple's ability to crank the updates out quickly is a big deal. Only Nokia / Symbian should be able to match them ijn that area, and it does give them a big edge. Now if they could just throw in a few more basics on the next update ...

[gavinfabl]

being an Apple user, 4 macs and one PC left in the house...

Nothing released today has earned me to pull out my wallet. I was hoping for an AppleTV hardware upgrade and possible Blu-Ray intigration. I would love to ditch my TIVO...

However my biggest disappointment of the day was from Microsoft. Office 2008 with no Exchange support for Tasks, Notes or Categories? What a serious joke. Without full Exchange support I have been asking myself why I should keep my WindowsMobile device. Heck why even keep my Exchange account rental? another missed opportunity for Microsoft.

I use live.mail2web and my tasks are synced.I believe mail2web is using ms exchange 2003. I dont use notes anymore for anything important because they dont sync.

[unxmully]

While there's little in these announcements that interests me, the Mac Air was the only thing I was waiting for and it's too thin and light for me, I find the accusation of arrogance a little difficult to understand.

Apple sold the Touch as an iPod with wireless technology so that you can buy music without the need to tether to an iTunes installation. Safari was included, probably because they could. So people asked for email which was an obvious extension that for some reason Apple excluded from the original package, probably to differentiate more strongly the Touch and the iPhone.

So Apple provide it and ask for a nominal sum, something like 5% of the US purchase price. Hardly seems unreasonable to me.

And then the iPhone. One of my colleagues has one and more or less all of the new features that have been added, he already has through hacks. However, the point here is that Apple looked at what people are doing with the product and added that functionality into the official release.

So there you have two examples from yesterday where Apple have listened to what people wanted and responded in a positive way to those requests.

Contrast that with Microsoft. How long have people been asking for a perfectly reasonable feature like the close button actually closing an application? And what is the response?

Or Sony with the PSP and homebrew apps? Now that you can use a Pandora battery to hack a PSP Sony are more or less stuffed. But if they'd listened to the market and taken the best of what the hacker community had to offer, I suspect they'd still have had to waste a lot less time and effort closing holes the hackers open up and be in competition with the DS Lite instead of being taken to the cleaners by Nintendo.

So we have Apple's arrogance. Sony's stupidity and Microsoft's ignorance. If those are the choices, give me arrogant any day.

[jlc61]

With Sarbanes-Oxley some companies have gotten very leery of "free" updates to existing products that add features for fear of running afoul of financial disclosure laws and having to restate past earnings. It's safer to chareg and avoid any possible violation.

[Russ Smith]

unxmully: I guess point of view changes everything. Apple's arrogance has soured me on any advantages they might have. I could run OSX, but I'd either have to buy Apple-approved hardware or spend time hacking each new version to run (and quite possibly not having all the hardware work because the drivers aren't there), then I have to load in VMWare to run those applications that only run under Windows. Or I could run Windows and be done with it. There are countless other examples.

One problem is everyone of us sees very clearly what Microsoft, Apple, Sony, etc should be doing, yet most of us don't agree on what that is. Take the close button, for example. I've suggested using tap to minimize and tap and hold to close myself, but if Microsoft put in a "really close" button, you'd suddenly have a bunch of people compaining that they can't switch between applications as easily as they used to.

On the whole, I like Microsoft's more open approach, but that's just from my point of view.

jlc61: I guess Sarbanes-Oxley just goes to show how laws can mess up things they're trying to fix. It seems to me that the law is the problem, not the free updates. Unfortunately, not giving away free updates is easier than trying to fix the law.

[deltaforce]

Ummm...$19.95 "unreasonable" for an Ipod Touch upgrade? How much is it to purchase a single application for a Win Mobile device? How much is it to purchase a Windows upgrade for my desktop machine?

Why do people continue to believe that software upgrades should be provided at no cost? Consumer electronics have razor-thin margins and software developers cost money. It certainly seems reasonable to me to pay a small anount to insure that a company continues to support and enhance the device that I purchased.

[dstrauss]

With Sarbanes-Oxley some companies have gotten very leery of "free" updates to existing products that add features for fear of running afoul of financial disclosure laws and having to restate past earnings. It's safer to chareg and avoid any possible violation.

I really think this is th gist ofteh problem. I'm no Apple fan (other than owning an iPod Nano), but they ven drew fire for the $2 fee for enabling 802.11n, so I major change inthe software and functionality of the Touch would be another governmental admin nightmare.

Still, it doesn't answer the question of why they left email out in thr first place...

[JohnJohn]

I use live.mail2web and my tasks are synced.I believe mail2web is using ms exchange 2003. I dont use notes anymore for anything important because they dont sync.

Do you have an MS Outlook machine syncing tasks as well? I am using the latest Exchange release (2007? 2008?), renting from www.themessagecenter.com. My daily environment was 100% Office 2004, but Tasks, Notes and Categories did not sync with my Tilt. Now if I fire up my PC with Outlook 2007 and add a Task, it syncs with my Tilt. That only happened when data was entered from a true Outlook machine, not Entourage.

Since I am a heavy Task &amp; Category user I moved to iCal &amp; Mail in Leopard, use a cable and MissingSync. It's 2001 all over again.

I was really hoping Office 2008 for Mac was going to have full Exchange support. Oh, well. I just saved $200+ by not buying the upgrade.

[r@dimus]

Gripe about Apple all you want, but one thing that I think is hard to deny is that they seem to be very good at making some pretty advanced tech easy to use by just about anyone. They have a strong history of this, and to me it's little wonder that they operate the way they do.

[Underwater Mike]

I'm not interested in an iPhone until it has HSDPA and a true GPS chipset. Once that happens, goodbye WM...

[JohnJohn]

I'm not interested in an iPhone until it has HSDPA and a true GPS chipset. Once that happens, goodbye WM...

It won't be as slim and sexy then, at least with the current battery set-up. Take that back it could be as slim and sexy, but 1/2 the battery life it has now.

I also want what you want. SlingBox on my iPhone via HSDPA....ooohhhh

[unxmully]

unxmully: I guess point of view changes everything. Apple's arrogance has soured me on any advantages they might have. I could run OSX, but I'd either have to buy Apple-approved hardware or spend time hacking each new version to run (and quite possibly not having all the hardware work because the drivers aren't there), then I have to load in VMWare to run those applications that only run under Windows. Or I could run Windows and be done with it. There are countless other examples.

One man's arrogance is another's avoiding problems with bad device drivers. People buy apple precisely because you don't have to hack systems together and face all of those driver problems. That's not arrogance to me.

One problem is everyone of us sees very clearly what Microsoft, Apple, Sony, etc should be doing, yet most of us don't agree on what that is. Take the close button, for example. I've suggested using tap to minimize and tap and hold to close myself, but if Microsoft put in a "really close" button, you'd suddenly have a bunch of people compaining that they can't switch between applications as easily as they used to.

Sorry but that's just plain wrong. The x paradigm comes from windows where it closes a window. If you're going to use the same start-button and similar approach to windows, the x closes. If they'd followed that from the start, no one would have any problems.

On the whole, I like Microsoft's more open approach, but that's just from my point of view.

I take it you mean open as in run on any hardware rather than open as in open source.

Microsoft are not open, they're the most closed operation around. From their closed protocols in exchange and trying to break samba to the ban on staff even looking at open source never mind working on it.

jlc61: I guess Sarbanes-Oxley just goes to show how laws can mess up things they're trying to fix. It seems to me that the law is the problem, not the free updates. Unfortunately, not giving away free updates is easier than trying to fix the law.

So far I've not seen any justification for the arrogance tag.

[Russ Smith]

Ummm...$19.95 "unreasonable" for an Ipod Touch upgrade? How much is it to purchase a single application for a Win Mobile device? How much is it to purchase a Windows upgrade for my desktop machine?

Why do people continue to believe that software upgrades should be provided at no cost? Consumer electronics have razor-thin margins and software developers cost money. It certainly seems reasonable to me to pay a small anount to insure that a company continues to support and enhance the device that I purchased.

While I'd have to say that comparing purchasing an upgrade to purchasing an application isn't quite equivalent, I'd still agree with the gist. I'm always grateful when a developer allows free upgrades (and possibly a bit worried that they won't be so motivated to improving the product). I'm also always quick to "pay" for programs that are done on a "donation if you want to" basis. It's worth it to me to keep the programmer working. Yes, I balk at paying for upgrades that are small, incremental improvements. Most developers (including Microsoft) don't charge for those. I'd definitely draw the line when the update simply fixes bugs. If it adds significant new features and functionality, then it's reasonable to pay to get it.

I like the sort of model that the Pocket Informant people do. You don't pay for "point" upgrades. You get a reduced price for whole-number upgrades. If you bought the program just a short time ago, any upgrade is free. That's completely fair.

[JohnJohn]

about the $19.95 iTouch upgrade:

I would have to agree. I wonder how many iTouchs they actually sold. I mean I am sure it a lot, but did they really need to charge it? NO

Now with that said I remember hearing from some guys with older Zune's saying how surprised they were that Microsoft did not charge for the recent software upgrade.

[Russ Smith]

unxmully: I guess point of view changes everything. Apple's arrogance has soured me on any advantages they might have. I could run OSX, but I'd either have to buy Apple-approved hardware or spend time hacking each new version to run (and quite possibly not having all the hardware work because the drivers aren't there), then I have to load in VMWare to run those applications that only run under Windows. Or I could run Windows and be done with it. There are countless other examples.

One man's arrogance is another's avoiding problems with bad device drivers. People buy apple precisely because you don't have to hack systems together and face all of those driver problems. That's not arrogance to me.

"Buy" is the operative word there. You buy Apple. Then you buy it again when Apple changes enough that the OS no longer supports the hardware you have. "Arrogance" may be slightly too strong a word, but it's close enough for me to a company that says. "We don't like writing device drivers, so we'll just force you to buy an extremely small subset of what's available and, oh yes, we'll make it so you have to buy ours, not anyone else's (unless you like hacking systems) because we know what's best for you."

One problem is everyone of us sees very clearly what Microsoft, Apple, Sony, etc should be doing, yet most of us don't agree on what that is. Take the close button, for example. I've suggested using tap to minimize and tap and hold to close myself, but if Microsoft put in a "really close" button, you'd suddenly have a bunch of people compaining that they can't switch between applications as easily as they used to.

Sorry but that's just plain wrong. The x paradigm comes from windows where it closes a window. If you're going to use the same start-button and similar approach to windows, the x closes. If they'd followed that from the start, no one would have any problems.

"Wrong?" Not exactly. "Different" I'd buy. When Pocket PC OS first came out, Microsoft actually did a huge beta-testing/focus group thing that led to the conclusion that people would be happier with minimizing rather than closing, so they actually listened and did it that way. You can certainly argue (and I have) that they could make real closing easier to do when you want to. Compaq's (now HP's) iTask is basically created to do just that. You can also argue that they might have used a different icon to avoid confusion. I'd agree with that. What I can't agree with is that minimizing is wrong and closing is right.

On the whole, I like Microsoft's more open approach, but that's just from my point of view.

I take it you mean open as in run on any hardware rather than open as in open source.

Microsoft are not open, they're the most closed operation around. From their closed protocols in exchange and trying to break samba to the ban on staff even looking at open source never mind working on it.

What I mean by open (as you thought) is that Microsoft's software runs on the vast majority of available hardware. (I really don't want to get into the open source debate here.) Microsoft's approach (generally) is to support as broad a base as possible. That makes sense when you're selling the OS, not the hardware, but it also makes sense to people like me who like to choose their own hardware.

So far I've not seen any justification for the arrogance tag.
From the Marriam-Webster Dictionary:
ar·ro·gance
: an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or in presumptuous claims or assumptions

What I'm referring to is Apple's attitude that they'll decide what we consumers will get. They choose the hardware (within a very narrow sub-set). They choose the OS functionality. Our job is to recognize their genius and buy it. They're obviously right. How else could they have attained their 2.2% market share :) If that's not arrogance, it's a remarkable facsimile.

[trepine]

I am just happy that apple is willing to upgrade their products, even at a small cost. I owned 5 pocket pc phones before the iPhone, all of them had minimal if any software updates, and did nothing other than a few bug fixes. Even then there were some serious bugs in the software that needed to be addressed, but the company (HTC and PALM) had a new, bigger, better phone they were pushing.

Since I have had my iPhone (Since around August), there have been 4 software updates, all of which offered significant features and upgrades. If apple chooses to make me pay for an upgrade every year or two, I have no problem with that, because even if I was willing to pay for a windows mobile upgrade there simply was none available to purchase because the manufacture had forgotten about me and Microsoft's model does not allow them to support me directly.

I tried since win CE 2.0 to like microsoft's solution, but they were simply too slow to add new features and too slow add real new innovations. Since the very earliest versions of WinMO I wanted a full scale browser, it was the one thing I really, really wanted...but the diluted PIE experience made an ever increasing number of sites un-usable as the web continued to mature, while PIE languished in is own demented universe.

In the end we should all be grateful to apple, because there is finally hope that microsoft will take it's thumb out of it's orifice and make smartphones which are leaps and bounds above the previous generation with each new release; instead of the current WinMO upgrade cycle where a few shiny buttons seems to be all the upgrades you got.

[Jason Dunn]

So far I've not seen any justification for the arrogance tag.

If you don't think Apple is arrogant, read iCon (http://www.amazon.com/iCon-Steve-Jobs-Greatest-Business/dp/0471787841/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200542922&sr=1-1). Jobs *is* Apple, and he's the most arrogant S.O.B. imaginable. He's a petulant child - a brilliant, visionary one at times - but a child nonetheless. This is the guy who was a multi-millionaire and wouldn't even acknowledge he'd fathered a child. This is the guy who would park in handicap parking spots. This is the guy who would go out for lunch with Apple staff and make his employees pay the bill.

Arrogance doesn't even begin to describe Steve Jobs, and almost everything that Apple does stems from his leadership. Apple is infused with his style, and yes, his arrogance.

There's a lot of things I admire about Apple, but their corporate arrogance is definitely NOT one of them. :roll:

[Jason Dunn]

I am just happy that apple is willing to upgrade their products, even at a small cost. I owned 5 pocket pc phones before the iPhone, all of them had minimal if any software updates, and did nothing other than a few bug fixes.

Indeed, I look at the updates that Apple has released for the iPhone and I feel a twinge of jealousy - they're doing something that Microsoft has never been able to do: give the customer updates directly.

[unxmully]

If you don't think Apple is arrogant, read iCon (http://www.amazon.com/iCon-Steve-Jobs-Greatest-Business/dp/0471787841/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200542922&sr=1-1). Jobs *is* Apple, and he's the most arrogant S.O.B. imaginable.

And you based all your views and invective on a book which has three reviews, one of which is:

This book is just a waste of paper. Half of it was lifted from other authors writing. It's very poorly written and is a lame attempt to cashin in on the iPod and Apples success by slamming Steve Jobs. Trees died for this?

And another:

This book stinks! And that's unfortunate because I had hoped for a definitive unauthorized biography of Jobs when I picked up a copy of iCon, but this isn't it. Not by a long shot.

Now come on Jason, that's not your normal style.

***long quote trimmed by mod JD***

[unxmully]

unxmully: I guess point of view changes everything. Apple's arrogance has soured me on any advantages they might have. I could run OSX, but I'd either have to buy Apple-approved hardware or spend time hacking each new version to run (and quite possibly not having all the hardware work because the drivers aren't there), then I have to load in VMWare to run those applications that only run under Windows. Or I could run Windows and be done with it. There are countless other examples.

One man's arrogance is another's avoiding problems with bad device drivers. People buy apple precisely because you don't have to hack systems together and face all of those driver problems. That's not arrogance to me.

"Buy" is the operative word there. You buy Apple. Then you buy it again when Apple changes enough that the OS no longer supports the hardware you have. "Arrogance" may be slightly too strong a word, but it's close enough for me to a company that says. "We don't like writing device drivers, so we'll just force you to buy an extremely small subset of what's available and, oh yes, we'll make it so you have to buy ours, not anyone else's (unless you like hacking systems) because we know what's best for you."

I think the point that you're missing is that Apple is, first and foremost and alway has been, a hardware vendor. Since I bought my first iBook in 2002, you've been able to run either OSX or Linux on all Apple hardware and now that they've transitioned to Intel you can run Windows XP of Vista if you choose.

You might as well criticise Microsoft for not porting Windows so you could run it on the PowerPC. Apple restrict their choice of hardware to differentiate them from a ton of other box shifters and it seems to me that they tend to go the premium route rather than the low-cost market but that's an aside.

One problem is everyone of us sees very clearly what Microsoft, Apple, Sony, etc should be doing, yet most of us don't agree on what that is. Take the close button, for example. I've suggested using tap to minimize and tap and hold to close myself, but if Microsoft put in a "really close" button, you'd suddenly have a bunch of people compaining that they can't switch between applications as easily as they used to.

Sorry but that's just plain wrong. The x paradigm comes from windows where it closes a window. If you're going to use the same start-button and similar approach to windows, the x closes. If they'd followed that from the start, no one would have any problems.

"Wrong?" Not exactly. "Different" I'd buy. When Pocket PC OS first came out, Microsoft actually did a huge beta-testing/focus group thing that led to the conclusion that people would be happier with minimizing rather than closing, so they actually listened and did it that way. You can certainly argue (and I have) that they could make real closing easier to do when you want to. Compaq's (now HP's) iTask is basically created to do just that. You can also argue that they might have used a different icon to avoid confusion. I'd agree with that. What I can't agree with is that minimizing is wrong and closing is right.

I'd be interested in a cite for the close beta-testing work. My memory has been that people who expressed a preference generally go for click = close.

On the whole, I like Microsoft's more open approach, but that's just from my point of view.

I take it you mean open as in run on any hardware rather than open as in open source.

Microsoft are not open, they're the most closed operation around. From their closed protocols in exchange and trying to break samba to the ban on staff even looking at open source never mind working on it.

What I mean by open (as you thought) is that Microsoft's software runs on the vast majority of available hardware. (I really don't want to get into the open source debate here.) Microsoft's approach (generally) is to support as broad a base as possible. That makes sense when you're selling the OS, not the hardware, but it also makes sense to people like me who like to choose their own hardware.

As above, now that Apple are shipping intel you can add all of the Apple range to your list of possible choices.

So far I've not seen any justification for the arrogance tag.
From the Marriam-Webster Dictionary:
ar·ro·gance
: an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or in presumptuous claims or assumptions

Yes, being English I well know what arrogant means, being more-or-less reviled for apparently being an arrogant race.

What I'm referring to is Apple's attitude that they'll decide what we consumers will get. They choose the hardware (within a very narrow sub-set). They choose the OS functionality. Our job is to recognize their genius and buy it. They're obviously right. How else could they have attained their 2.2% market share :) If that's not arrogance, it's a remarkable facsimile.

Errr, don't Sony do just the same thing? They build a pc to their spec and you either buy it or you don't. And if you want to run OSX that much then you buy Apple hardware. If not, you don't.

I still don't see that as arrogance, merely common sense.

The majority of people buying apple now are doing so for two reasons a) the style and b) the reliability. And they both come from Apple's approach to delivering hardware based on a limited set of chosen products.

[stevew]

I am just happy that apple is willing to upgrade their products, even at a small cost.



Your full post was my thoughts exactly. And since I've finally broke free of WM and purchased an IPhone I couldn't be happier. Instead of being frustrated using my WM device year after year, I'm now excited again about a device and love to use the IPhone. I finally can feel the love again with a device.

[Russ Smith]

uxmully: Good counter-arguments. I does appear that we'll have to be satisfied with disagreeing on this. The only additional comment I'd make is that the English really don't hold a candle to the arrogance demonstrated by many American tourists. We actually seem to believe that anyone can understand (American) English if it's spoken slowly and loudly enough :roll:

About reviewers (in reference to your response to Jason's comments): There's a line from "Ratatouille" that comes to mind: "In many ways the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so."

[guinness]

I look at it as this - Sony posted FW updates that enabled a web browser, Flash 6, and internet radio player, RSS feeds on my PSP over the years, for free.

None of which were the greatest apps in the world, but they were free, and that's basically what I view the apps for the Touch as - they're just extensions of the manufacturers' device, and help satisfy current and future users.

Comparing the apps to WM apps or major OS revisions (Leopard/Vista) is bit silly. WM apps are typically 3rd party, and you're buying it to fill a lack of functions in the built-in apps. And Leopard and Vista are the latest and greatest, even if all the features weren't mind-blowing.

The rest of MW didn't wow me, but I feel a bit better about buying my Mini last month in a way. I was expecting an update to it, and about all I saw was Apple TV 2 and an overpriced MB.

[Jason Dunn]

And you based all your views and invective on a book which has three reviews, one of which is...

If you're basing your opinion of a book on Amazon.com reviews, well, that's not saying much either. ;-) It's much better to read a book and decide for yourself. That's what I try to do.

My opinion about Steve Jobs doesn't come simply from iCon - it comes from every magazine article, TV appearance, Macworld keynote, and YouTube video I've seen. Hell, even if 50% of what was shown in "Pirates of Silicon Valley" is true, the guy's arrogant.

Frankly, I'm stunned that there's anyone out there that doesn't think Steve Jobs is arrogant. It's like denying gravity. :lol:

[Jason Dunn]

The majority of people buying apple now are doing so for two reasons a) the style and b) the reliability. And they both come from Apple's approach to delivering hardware based on a limited set of chosen products.

Indeed, that's Apple's strength: it's a hell of a lot easier to deliver a great, almost magical experience, when you control the hardware, the software, and everything else that matters. That's what Apple's good at. And as long as you do things Apple's way, it's all good. But when you don't...nothing but frustration.

I won't repeat the whole sordid tale here, but go check out my post on Digital Home Thoughts from last year (http://forums.thoughtsmedia.com/showthread.php?t=30594) about me wanting to do something with iTunes that seemed amazingly simple, yet was impossible. That's one example of how Apple's corporate arrogance manifests itself in their products.

[Jason Dunn]

Frankly, I'm stunned that there's anyone out there that doesn't think Steve Jobs is arrogant. It's like denying gravity. :lol:

As a follow up, check out this article (http://www.cnbc.com/id/22673034) and this quote:

"I told Jobs that I had sat down with Microsoft's Robbie Bach last week at the Consumer Electronics Show. I mentioned that Bach was particularly optimistic about the new Zune, that it was now a worthy alternative to Apple's iPod. Asked Jobs: "Was he inebriated? Do you even know anyone who owns a Zune?" Touched a nerve, I suppose. Watch the video we loaded. It's a great exchange."

You can't possibly tell me that's not an massively arrogant response - it's completely insulting to Robbie Bach. 8O Even most of the ardent iPod fans (the ones I've read) admit that the v2 Zune is a decent player and a valid choice.

[unxmully]

Frankly, I'm stunned that there's anyone out there that doesn't think Steve Jobs is arrogant. It's like denying gravity. :lol:

As a follow up, check out this article (http://www.cnbc.com/id/22673034) and this quote:

"I told Jobs that I had sat down with Microsoft's Robbie Bach last week at the Consumer Electronics Show. I mentioned that Bach was particularly optimistic about the new Zune, that it was now a worthy alternative to Apple's iPod. Asked Jobs: "Was he inebriated? Do you even know anyone who owns a Zune?" Touched a nerve, I suppose. Watch the video we loaded. It's a great exchange."

You can't possibly tell me that's not an massively arrogant response - it's completely insulting to Robbie Bach. 8O Even most of the ardent iPod fans (the ones I've read) admit that the v2 Zune is a decent player and a valid choice.

Well yes I can actually. In his position I might have asked the same, or if he was on some form of medication or whether he woke up with a start and found himself back in the real world. But then perhaps that's more in line with the sarcastic way we tend to look at things in the UK.

To be honest, if a company had the zune as it's only product and it did as well as v1 did, it would rapidly go out of business. I've never seen one in the flesh, or in a shop that I can recall.

In fact it's achieved so little penetration in the UK that three of the major retailers - PC World, John Lewis and Currys - don't even have it in their online ctalogues.

Only the fact that Microsoft can continue to bankroll it from more lucrative areas of its business keeps it in the market. Looks like Steve has a point.

[unxmully]

uxmully: Good counter-arguments. I does appear that we'll have to be satisfied with disagreeing on this.

Seems fair to me. It would always be difficult to persuade each other to the opposing point of view.

The only additional comment I'd make is that the English really don't hold a candle to the arrogance demonstrated by many American tourists. We actually seem to believe that anyone can understand (American) English if it's spoken slowly and loudly enough :roll:

Oh we do that as well. But as a rule brits who do that tend to do trips to spanish resorts where they can get english beer and fish and chips. Blech!

About reviewers (in reference to your response to Jason's comments): There's a line from "Ratatouille" that comes to mind: "In many ways the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so."

Sounds fair to me :D

[Russ Smith]

Looks like Steve has a point.
Arrogance isn't about not having a point (although an arrogant person will often think their point is stronger than it is). It's about how you make the point. Instead of responding substantially, he simply insults the person who dared challenge his point of view. That's arrogance. (It's possible, I suppose to confuse sarcasm with arrogance. Though I think the picture becomes clearer in context. (It's what you do before and after the comments that show whether you really mean them.))

I actually met Jobs years ago and it's apparent that his attitude hasn't changed much. He exudes the attitude that he's smarter than everyone else. That's demonstrably not the case, but he nonetheless consistently refuses to hear contradictory points of view. That's arrogance.

Jobs isn't alone by any means. You could make the same charge about a number of other CEOs. Arrogance does seem to work for some people, Steve Jobs and Donald Trump both seemed to be able to make money from it.

[unxmully]

Frankly, I'm stunned that there's anyone out there that doesn't think Steve Jobs is arrogant. It's like denying gravity. :lol:

The problem is that we're coming from two extremes. Without wishing to cause offence I could be called an Apple fanboy and you a microsoft apologist. On that basis anything either of us says is going to reflect our, entrenched and diametrically opposed, positions.

Now you may well be right about Jobs being arrogant, I don't really know. If you'd described him as an extreme perfectionist with a tendancy to act as an office bully, I'd agree with you. However, I'd also say the same about Gates and Ballmer.

Having said all that, IMHO Apple as a company develops excellent products, always uses leading edge components and generally ships the right product first time. And I still can't see how that makes it an arrogant company.

[unxmully]

I won't repeat the whole sordid tale here, but go check out my post on Digital Home Thoughts from last year (http://forums.thoughtsmedia.com/showthread.php?t=30594) about me wanting to do something with iTunes that seemed amazingly simple, yet was impossible. That's one example of how Apple's corporate arrogance manifests itself in their products.

I'll see that and raise you Windows Media Player not being able to play content on external storage without synching it to My Music. I have some music on a card in my phone, connected by USB to a work Thinkpad running XP. WMP can see the files and knows what they are but doesn't give me an option to just play them.

What on earth is that all about?

[dto71]

Frankly, I'm stunned that there's anyone out there that doesn't think Steve Jobs is arrogant. It's like denying gravity. :lol:

I think the problem with this whole discussion it's that it's turned into an argument over what individual has how much arrogance. Art critic Camille Paglia once wrote, "If Picasso machine-gunned a row of grandmothers, it would not affect my opinion of his art." Bill Gates is becoming the greatest philantrhopist the world's ever seen, and Jobs parks in handicapped spots. Fine. But what I care about right now is which company is providing the product that best serves my needs, and IMO, Apple is doing a much better job with the Iphone than Microsoft is with the Pocket PC.

It's important to remember that arrogance is largely a function of what one can get away with. Even if Jobs is more arrogant than anyone at Microsoft, Apple simply doesn't have the market share to get away with not responding to customer needs. Look at third-party apps for the Iphone; Jobs clearly hates them, and tried to get everyone to use "web applications." But the consumer outcry has been such that, arrogant or not, Jobs has been forced to promise an SDK for the Iphone against his own wishes.

[Edgar_]

I would have happliy shelled out $19.95 for an upgrade to my Blackjack..... I would if I had a ipod touch too. At least Apple actually provides fixes and updates (could be better still).

None of the Win mobile vendors do.

[whydidnt]

As an iPod Touch owner, I'm unhappy with the decision to charge for this upgrade. There are too many examples of free upgrades in this category to consider this an "Accounting thing". By all accounts this upgrade isn't an upgrade at all, it simply unlocks software that is already on the device. If you buy a new Touch, the software is already working, but as an early adopter we get the privilege of paying Apple $20 to use software that has been taking up valuable space on the on our device.

Now having said this, I find it interesting that many others here complain about this as if Apple is completely evil for doing this. In the not too distant past many of the same people were happily paying HP or Dell for ROM upgrades and complaining that they would pay if only the upgrades were made available.

We have seen some (not enough) free upgrades on converged devices however, the AT&amp; 8525, for example received an upgrade to WM6 at no charge, so perhaps Apple is just doing what the rest of the market does. Free upgrades on the Converged device, but charging for "new" features on the non-converged side.

Now, to go off topic, the Touch (and iPhone, too I assume) has by far the best mobile browser available. It is an absolute shame that MS has been making and "upgrading" our favorite mobile OS for nearly 10 years now and still hasn't come close to providing this type of internet experience! I actually use WMWiFiRouter so I can use my Tilt's 3G connection but browse on the Touch when traveling. It is just so much faster and better, it's not even funny. So much for my "converged device". I also tried the Nokia N810, and while the built in browser does a fantastic job rendering pages, and the WideVGA screen is fantastic, it is WAY too slow for me to consider it a good Internet experience.

[erratic]

To be honest, if a company had the zune as it's only product and it did as well as v1 did, it would rapidly go out of business. I've never seen one in the flesh, or in a shop that I can recall.

In fact it's achieved so little penetration in the UK that three of the major retailers - PC World, John Lewis and Currys - don't even have it in their online ctalogues.

It hasn't been released in the UK. In fact, it hasn't been released officially outside of the US at all. I think Canada will be getting it soon.

Only the fact that Microsoft can continue to bankroll it from more lucrative areas of its business keeps it in the market. Looks like Steve has a point.

This is true. It is Microsoft's entire business strategy. Outside Windows and Office and possibly hardware (excluding the XBox, which despite the odd profitably quarter, hasn't repaid the money MS invested in it yet.)

A good analogy for MS is an oil dependent economy such as many of those in the middle east. They're aware of the need to diversify and pour tons of money into it, but haven't quite managed it yet.

Maybe one day. Won't be cheap, though.

[aristoBrat]

[Time Machine] fairly quickly fills up backup space with what are probably mostly extraneous copies and, while it works well for documents, it doesn't seem to address being able to restore the full system after a hard-drive failure or something of that sort.
FWIW, if you boot a Mac from the Leopard install DVD, there's an option to restore from a Time Machine backup.

Look at third-party apps for the Iphone; Jobs clearly hates them, and tried to get everyone to use "web applications."
Speaking of the Touch and Steve Jobs hating, since Apple didn't appear to recognize the revenue of the iPod Touch in the same way they did with the AppleTV and iPhone (which is said to allow them to add new features without charge on those two devices), I imagine Steve (Apple) had zero plans to ever add those 5 applications to the iPod Touch, giving it virtual software parity with the iPhone. Again, consumers spoke and Apple appears to have listened, as begrudgingly as probably was for them.

http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2007/04/25/apple-to-recognize-iphone-apple-tv-revenue-over-24-month-period-fy-q3-margins-seen-slipping/

[jimtravis]

Updates to the iPhone are nice, should have been there when introduced. The iPhone is still feature deficient (for my needs) compared to other popular smartphones. If it works for you, great.

Safari is an excellent mobile browser overall; however, it is not the perfect browser some of the hype stipulates. If you are viewing an older single column webpage with Safari, the double tap zoom doesn't always work, and you are forced to use the pinching zoom to increase the text to a size that won't strain your eyes. When you use the pinching zoom, the sentences are not word wrapped again, and you are forced to horizontally scroll in order to read each line. The single column pages display fine with proper word wrapping at all text sizes with PIE, and just about every other mobile browser I have used. The choices are either eye strain (particularly for older users), or horizontal scrolling for each line when viewing some single column pages with Safari. If the web developer adds a Viewport metatag, the number of words per line displayed by Safari can be reduced, but many single column pages will not have that metatag added.

Safari does do a nice job double tap zooming with multiple column pages, but some other browsers do as well. Now, before the flames start, I am not saying PIE is better than Safari. I am saying Safari can have zooming problems with some single column webpages in addition to not supporting Flash, etc. Bottom line is the best mobile browser is dependent on the page you are trying to view.

As an owner of the Apple TV, I welcome the updates, and thank Apple for distributing the update for the original model. Direct podcast downloads have been a feature I desired since the first day I used the Apple TV.

[isilver]

I am a very simple person. I don't own an Ipod Touch. If I don't want this list of $20.00 worth of improvements with the Ipod Touch do I get a $20.00 discount to go to the old version. The answer would probably be "No".

The fee's only purpose is to hurt early adopters. In the end if I decide to purchase an Ipod Touch now then will I be screwed with any future updates when it starts to include better features.

What about future, future updates. If I don't get this update and then Apple comes out with another update. Will I have to pay double to get that update or would that one update be only $20.00 for it too.

Apple is making things complicated when they don't have to be. That's why there decision to charge for these minor upgrades is a slap in the face to anyone who uses there devices.

[aristoBrat]

Apple is making things complicated when they don't have to be. That's why there decision to charge for these minor upgrades is a slap in the face to anyone who uses there devices.
Since you're not a Touch owner, maybe you're not aware of Apple's upgrade history with the Touch.

Free:
version 1.1.1 iPod Touch firmware update
version 1.1.2 iPod Touch firmware update
version 1.1.3 iPod Touch firmware update

Not Free:
adding 5 new applications to the Touch


Accounting rules behind iPod touch update charge
http://www.macworld.com/article/131991/2008/02/ipodtouch.html

[stsanford]

AS a new Mac switcher, and as an IT person, I feel I can make some informed comments here:

1. Arrogance.. No, I don't think it's arrogance, maybe from uncle Steve, but the company understands service and high quality. My MacBook Air has had a couple of issues, but they basically kissed my a** to get them resolved. This made me happy. As an IT Consultant, I understand the model of better service for more money, it's what I offer my clients, so it's a very "good fit" in my head.

2. MacBook Air is an amazing machine. I absolutely love it. I carry it with me more often than my last 2 laptops combined.

3. I run Parallels and even on what some seem to feel is an anemic MBA, it runs my main applications as well as it does native software. It's a good solution to Outlool / Entourage...

4. iPhone. As a WM user from back when they were called Windows CE, then as an early PocketPC Phone Edition adopter all the way up to my current Trel 750, I can say that the form factor of the iPhone is intriguing, however with no 3-rd party support, it hasn't won me over. Add to this the fact that my WM6 device won't do OOO changes or read HTML mail until I upgrade my Ex2003 to Ex2007. This is total BS and very typical Microsoft. Their "solution" is always to sell as many license to as many of their products as possible. (At work though, I do like this to a certain degree. Microsoft products basically pay my mortgage!)

5. Entourage is a total piece of cr*p. I cannot believe how absolutely ugly, slow, lame and generally useless. It's making me think of getting an iPhone, moving my e-mail off Exchange and onto a mail server, using IMAP and having my iPhone set to check every 2 minutes. Who needs Direct Push?

Anyway, [/RANT] and [/COMMENTS] My opinion comes free... just about what it's worth.