Windows Mobile Device Center and Vista: Did You Go Back to XP?

[Jason Dunn]

I've seen something mentioned over and over in our forums here and at Smartphone Thoughts: some people are having so many problems with Windows Mobile Device Center (WMDC) that they're actually leaving Windows Vista and and going back to Windows XP...and the shockingly less-problematic-than-WMDC embrace of ActiveSync. So, quick survey time...and comments/explanations are definitely welcome because I realize there are many possible variables to your answer.

[emuelle1]

I'm sticking with WMDC and Vista for now, although I admit that I can't help but wonder what MS was thinking with the WMDC. I wonder if the WMDC was designed more for the Zune and Windows Mobile was thrown in as an afterthought before release.

[cjhp]

I stayed with Vista but left the Window mobile for a Blackberry. Not sure how to vote for that....
:oops:

J...

[wqwalter]

I am hanging in with WMDC even though it is not a functional replacement for active sync and it definitly in its current state is not an improvement. I have a Dell AXIM and an HP hx6925 both worked fine with XP an now with VISTA on the same machine with the same USB cable I only get a connection about 1 in 5 tries and I can never get both devices connected at the same time. I could not get Microsoft Streets and Trips to load Pocket Streets with WMDC. The loader kept insisting that I need to load activesync first. I started a ROM update of the Axim and it went throught the erase and failed leaving me with just the Parrot boot loaded. I was able to turn it back from a brick into a usable device but it was a real pain and I had to do it on XP.

I watch a lot of Microsoft Webcasts and they are so ashamed of WMDC that it has never been mentioned and wheni ask a question in the Q&A panel the speaker skips the questions saying they don't use WMDC.

Bill Walter

[EastExpert]

I won't go to the outdated XP anyway, but WMDC leaves much to be improved.

My worst grudge against it is that flashing ROMs into Windows Mobile devices is simply not possible; you just brick the device. I've been through this once, bricked a Universal. People on xda-developers.com have found a way to replace Vista's modem drivers with XP ones, but this solution is Frankenstein's and I don't want to screw up my Vista; easier to just use a laptop with XP & ActiveSync for this purpose. I managed to restore the Uni to it's proper ROM...

Diagnostic is bad, too many things to click between, navigation tree is unclear.

I personally think it needs to be reworked from scratch. WMDC sucks as it is. And shame it drives more people to abandon Vista for outdated, overstayed its welcome, XP. Shame, shame.

[Ed Hansberry]

I haven't switched back to XP yet, but WMDC is close to pushing me over the edge.

Right now I am not syncing at all. I manually copy stuff between my SD card and device, then between the SD card and my laptop. As a result, I have some files hopelessly out of sync. Fortunately all my PIM data is in Exchange, otherwise, I would have gone back to XP.

Pathetic. :evil:

[WyattEarp]

I haven't switched back to XP yet, but WMDC is close to pushing me over the edge.

Right now I am not syncing at all. I manually copy stuff between my SD card and device, then between the SD card and my laptop. As a result, I have some files hopelessly out of sync. Fortunately all my PIM data is in Exchange, otherwise, I would have gone back to XP.

Pathetic. :evil:

Same here, only I haven't been able to sync for the past 3 months and unfortunately I don't use Exchange. Going back to XP is not an option for me. Wanting to move from MS all together at this point.

[Yata]

I switched to Vista and came back to XP. Nothing to do with WMDC to be honest, I just had too many other driver/software issues to make it worth while. I came back to Windows XP MCE and now I'm struggling for reasons to risk upgrading again.

[JohnJohn]

XP, then Vista, then back to XP, then to OSX, then to XP & OSX, now OSX and VISTA. My key to success...clean install Vista.

EDIT: Exchange to Sync

[joelevi]

What about an option for those of us that use and Exchange Server and Data Plan to sync our PIM data and a storage card to transfer installers (.cab) and data to/from the device?

I don't have to worry about ActiveSync nor whatever Vista uses... just the device and my data plan and my Exchange Server... life is happy.

- www.JoeLevi.com

[whydidnt]

What about an option for those of us that use and Exchange Server and Data Plan to sync our PIM data and a storage card to transfer installers (.cab) and data to/from the device?

I don't have to worry about ActiveSync nor whatever Vista uses... just the device and my data plan and my Exchange Server... life is happy.



I've slowly come to the realization that this is what MS wants. They could care less about consumer's purchase and use of these devices. Why bother with a working Sync solution on the desktop when you don't include any software that can sync with the device anyway? It's obvious that the development team only syncs with an Exchange Server and in MS's myopic viewpoint that's how ALL of us should also.

We are coming upon 10 years of PPC devices and MS NEVER made the desktop sync robust and stable. MS and it's OEM partners have NEVER produced an eye catching device aimed at the consumer market. The bottom line is if you don't want to buy 100's of these things for your corporation, they just don't care about you. Oh sure, you can buy one, but good luck getting full functionality out of it. The fact that the desktop sync solution gets more horribly broken with each release is a perfect example of this philosophy. :evil:

[DaleReeck]

All my everyday use machines are Vista, but I've kept one XP machine to use as a dedicated "sync" machine. WMDC is c r a p, plain and simple.

[Jerry Raia]

I can't go backwards, Vista & WMDC. :lol:

[indiekiduk]

I've found WMDC just an awful experience because of the following:

1) The green tray icon no longer shows sync status by animating or changing colour and clicking it goes to something called sync center which needs more clicks to get to device center. I never seem to know what WMDC is up to without bringing up the main screen which shows the connecting label.
2) Updating to WMDC 6.1 completely broke the network driver and my devices won't only sync if I turned off advanced network functionality on them.
3) If you have an explorer window open which is showing a folder on the device when you disconnect the window jumps back to "Computer" meaning when you reconnect you need to browse all the way back to where you were.
4) You can't see the windows folder in file explorer in vista until you turn on show hidden files. But this then makes the Vista home folder a mess of link files which are there to make the new home folder layout backwards compatible with XP software which save stuff to My Documents.
5) The WMDC main window is an ugly beast - main window too big with a stupid big device icon, important functions like browse the device buried in ugly big animated menus. Too many clicks overall, using WMDC is at least 3 times slower to do anything than with ActiveSync.

Yeh ActiveSync wasn't great but it did the job, hopefully we will see ActiveSync compatibility added to Vista soon and WMDC withdrawn.

[indiekiduk]

PocketPCThoughts, would you fancy starting an online petition to request Microsoft posting how to enable ActiveSync in Vista?

[Ed Hansberry]

PocketPCThoughts, would you fancy starting an online petition to request Microsoft posting how to enable ActiveSync in Vista?

I'd fancy a petition to just give us something workable. Getting AS 4.x isn't a solution IMHO, because that is just going from "sucks" to "sucks less." Let's be daring and go for "doesn't suck so much." :? ActiveSync has been out since 1999. 8 years. Is "doesn't suck so much" too much to ask for?

[Darren Behan]

I've posted alot on WMDC recently, here and elsewhere, so I won't repeat all of the reasons I think WMDC is the worst sync implementation I have ever seen. Suffice it to say that if I turned out this piece of garbage at my job, I'd be unemployed in a heartbeat and rightfully so.

MS might wish to note that many, if not most, of the posters on this thread so far are very experienced PPC users who are typically supportive of the platform. It's one thing that the platform has never been particularly friendly to 'normal' users, it's another when you're driving away your core audience (which happen to function as your best marketing tool). There was a time when I'd recommend PPC. Now that's always prefaced with 'Are you using Vista or do you ever plan to?'

Consider my name added to the petition in big capital letters.

db

[dunneldeen]

I had a lot of problems with WMDC right after I got my new laptop. I was on the verge of going back to XP because if that and many other reasons. I decided to Upgrade to Vista Ultimate (to see if it will solve a few other annoyances I had with my stock version of Vista), because I was able to get a very good deal on the upgrade. Surprisingly, it solved my WMDC issue, and a couple of others as well.

It was only a delay, though. I eventually went back to XP because of all the other unresolved issues, incompatibilities, and dog-@$$ slowness of Vista. I liked Vista, but all the problems proved too much of a distraction.

[hamishmacdonald]

I had a lot of problems at first with WMDC and Vista, but I have to admit that, now that my PC environment is settled and I'm not trying to find drivers or add new devices, everything is working fine for me.

That's not to say that any number of people on these boards couldn't design something better, but PIM data, files, music and videos, and even OneNote data -- they're all synchronising just fine for me, just to be fair to the MS development team here.

[buss]

I really liked Vista's slick interface and the secuirty features, but sync problems and a lack of compatiblity with some older software had me rolling back to XP.

[Sven Johannsen]

I'm sticking with WMDC and Vista for now, although I admit that I can't help but wonder what MS was thinking with the WMDC. I wonder if the WMDC was designed more for the Zune and Windows Mobile was thrown in as an afterthought before release.

????what??? WMDC has nothing to do with the Zune. It has it's own sync process. Doesn't use Sync Center, WMDC, or Windows Media Player. It's as if it wasn't MS at all. No different than buying an iPod as far as compatibility with stuff that doesn't have to be installed with it.

As far as WMDC is concerned, I am still on it, on my Vista desktop, but have upgraded my Vista laptop to XP because I needed a reliable sync solution. WMDC has twice now decided it wasn't going to recognize any of my devices. I've got it back, wasting numerous hours in the process, but I never had near the aggravation with any version of AS. It irritates me everytime I look at the eyecandy that was obviously a greater priority than functionality.

[heliod]

I am one of the guys still with Vista, and I have a suggestion to everyone having problems:

I came to notice that most of the problems are connected to USB connections. Then I have just disabled the USB Sync, I connect the plug only when I need to recharge, but the real Sync I do via Bluetooth. Has been working very well for me since then.

[Mark from Canada]

Isn't it great. :evil:
It took them years and removal of features from Active Sync piece by piece and they still managed to not make it more stable.
So - when nobody thought that it could get any worse they introduced WMDC - maybe just to make Active Sync look good.
I used to have many problems syncing - which are really hard to diagnose because you have no clue what the prolem is.
For me it turned out that it didn't like some appointments.
So, instead of syncing everything else and tell me where the problem lies, it just didn't sync. It just said Sync failed. No reason, no help, nothing.
...but the connection was there because I could connect from the PPC to the Internet.
That seems like a great opportunity for a third-party sync.
Mind you - maybe not: I used to sync everything with AS, now I have separate sync apps for Outlook (WMDC), databases (DOTR), eWallet and I have to open AvantGo and start syncing manually.
Is it just me or do get things more complicated?
I guess the next step is to have no sync at all - and then to not allow smart devices to connect to the PC at all...
Oh yes - and that I can't modify my PPC Start Menu from the PC any more is :roll:

Mark

[ctmagnus]

I've had very few issues to date. I occasionally lose the partnership (something that never happened to me with ActiveSync) but I find that if I wait until everything is done syncing then drag my eWallet files to the device (as opposed to copying them over while syncing is still happening) there are no problems.

[alanjrobertson]

Wow, I'd heard WMDC was pretty rubbish but didn't know it was this bad! In all fairness to Palm, they might be going down the tubes but at least I can sync my TX with using the latest Hotsync in Vista without a problem! (and that's with the option of either syncing to Outlook or Palm Desktop).

Alan

[derylmccarty]

I my case I could not force ROM load my ATT 8525 using Vista (Ultimate) and WMDC (E.g. going from WM5 to WM6) In all other cases Vista and WMDC easily sync'd CABs, music and files. Since I have a removable HD (with windows shut down) I merely removed the Vista HD and booted up with the old XP and Active Sync 4.5 and did the ROM loading. Then back to the Vista HD, boot and go. My day to day Operating system is Vista (U)and until something better comes along, it will continue to be. (Linux and Apple do not offer anything for me.)

[Oleander]

I'm the one in charge of smartphones at work, so I just had to try out Vista when I read about the new WMDC. I made a fresh install of Vista just for testing out WMDC - I really have no need for the other stuff in Vista since what I feel is the shortcomings of XP has been fixed better by 3'rd party software than by Vista. A 30% performance decrease in most of the applications that I use, is not something I need just to get more eyecandy.

Whatever happened to the database file system btw?

It lasted 1 week! On some devices it just stopped working and on others there were so many problems that it was just ridiculous - and that's on devices that all sync to Exchange. I wouldn't dare think how crappy it was if you had to sync by it!

At least on AS 95% of the time, you just have to delete the partnership to get it working again...

I never thought that I would actually come to a point where I would recommend AS over something else.. :?

[Sven Johannsen]

Whatever happened to the database file system btw?

WinFS just wasn't going to be ready in time for the expected release of Vista. I heard Jim Alchin speak about it one time and he was very disappointed about it. Realities though were that a new OS needed to appear, just because that is how the market works, but the SQL backed file system wasn't going to make it. At the time it was still in the works, but since Mr Alchin left, I don't know where this stands.

At least some of the benifits of such a construct are still there. It has been a while since I hunted for a program or document in Vista. With the background indexing, I just hit the Windows key and start typing a program name or some piece of what I am looking for and it does a passable job of finding it.

I would dearly love the dynamic organization that a DB based file system would bring, but I am a bit skeptical that the system can effectively tag the files to make that happen.

[absynth]

honestly i am surprised to see anyone go to vista. i have yet to see anything about vista asside from some icing visual effects that makes it worth it.

this is just one more reason to wait. active sync is great. HOW CAN YOU BREAK A PROGRAM THAT IS ALREADY WORKING MICROSOFT?? dear lord in heavan!

seriously :roll: microsoft, is it really that hard to make an improved app? can't existing knowledge of what works not somehow carry over into a new application? blows my mind.

Thanks
Caleb

[Russ Smith]

Aside: When I first started seeing comments about Vista as "just eye-candy" and such, I wondered how they could have missed all the rest. Now I realize that Microsoft is a bit to blame. The sales folks seem to concentrate on the showy things rather that the major changes (almost all for the better) under the hood. Networking was completely overhauled with major improvements in stability and efficiency. SP1 will capitalize on the efficiency with even better throughput. Graphics-wise, Vista finally moves away from bit-mapped frame-buffers to actual rendering. Aside from the eye-candy, it also means that windows work faster, better, and with fewer "artifacts." ...and so on.

Now, back to topic: I'll agree that my love-hate relationship with ActiveSync has continued through it's latest incarnation in WMDC. As a result of e-mail synchs either just plain not working or hanging in mid synch, I've decided not to do e-mail synching at all. Everything else works just right for me. My wife, however has had problems with older Task and Appointment items overwriting newer ones on her PPC with both ActiveSync and WMDC, usually wiping out carefully taken notes :evil:

It did seem to me that WMDC was an afterthought itself. Vista was available in beta for months and then WMDC rolls out after Vista 8O
On the one hand, I can see where some improvements have been made. On the other (and far more serious, I think), it seems the software engineers may have missed the first goal to make it work as often, with as few errors, glitches, and just plain hangs as possible, then go about adding nice new features. Of all the features of a Windows Mobile device, I think the one thing that's on nearly every customer's mind is Personal Information Management. If you can't get that right (and synching is a large part of that), people will look elsewhere. Fortunately, for MS, Palm doesn't do much better with synching.

I did software engineering myself, so I don't think it's out of line to wonder why this has been such an issue throughout the WindowsCE lifetime. Synching requires some strategy, true, but I can't see why it's so hard to get it right.

[absynth]

yea, i think there are several big reasons why MS can't get it right

1) they are simply too big. i don't know MS's corporate structure, but the complexity of an OS.. mixed with personalities.. corporate politics.. and lost in the crowd mentalities.. these oversights MUST be because there is no single person in charge.. or whoever is.. simply isn't focused. personally i'd be ashamed to be part of the windows mobile team.. because clearly these coders are not idiots.. they are not jerks.. i'm sure they would like WM6 to be the best yet and activesync to run flawless.. and vista "should" be better.. but it's not.. it's "different".

btw, has anyone seen the latest apple add? lol.. too funny "no.. i went back to xp three weeks ago.. so much happier".. :)

2) Microsoft needs to reinvent itself. now.. that said.. it won't happen. because of business compatibility needs they can't pull an OSX, which is unfortunately apples own double edged sword.. they just say, screw it. we're going in this direction and if people want it.. they can buy something new. which osx paid off in the long run... however vista is screaming proof that they have taken windows about as far as it can go. the point of an OS shouldn't be to make it more demanding.. it should be more eleigant, efficient.. not just more crap stacked on old crap.

(off topic again:) not to make a flame war here :) peace man.. i gotta disagree with you on this improvements. it requires more power.. more ram.. to "run decent".. that's obsurd.. i've met several people who have these new computers that have vista and they complain that t's slow! granted the computers often have less ram than "recommended", however, run xp on that same computer and that slowness will be noticabily reduced. give me any computer out there.. new or old.. load vista on it and run some benchmarks. then do the same tests with the same computer on xp.. scores will be higher on xp.. i've done it myself with a friends dell xps desktop, core2 2.6gig 2gig ram system.. ran benchmark 3d 2001 SE.. a great, basic 3d test. scord 8000 approx on vista.. installed xp (both clean installs.. basic stuff) got a score of 12000 with xp?!

however ultimately, android and iphone should eat away at ms's mobile dominiation.. the only reason they've been on top is that there hasn't been any real competition once palm became out of touch.. I just look forward to real competition.. because it's clear that Microsoft's strategy has been "who cares, what else will they use?".

personally i would LOVE to stay with pocket pc's. I like windows in general over the Mac OS... i'm getting a macbook pro eventually, however the only reason i'm doing that is because i can run windows on it (and the benifits of better audio performance for music on the mac side). however it's clear that MS isn't going to listen to me or anyone else out there. i will find something better and not look back. it's just a matter of time. hopefully before that time comes, MS will get their @$$ in gear and make something solid.

fortunately, i only have dailey minor syncing errors with activesync.. however the data does sync (i have to restart the device sometimes) which again.. it so freakin' dumb.. how hard is it to get data (we're talking what a few mb's of information) to simply go from one place to another without random errors or lost data.. it's just a PDA for goodness sakes.. we're not talking syncing the library of congress.. heh heh

Thanks
Caleb

[mtnmedic]

At times it seems slow but so far, so good. I do like the UI. Actually, aside from my vista desktop, I still maintain an XP tablet PC (laptop). I have the best of both worlds.