iPaq 912 Business Messenger In The Flesh

[Nurhisham Hussein]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/09/27/hps-ipaq-912-business-messenger-gets-handled/' target='_blank'>http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/...r-gets-handled/</a><br /><br /></div><i>"Earlier this month, HP loosed details on its iPAQ 900 series of PDA phones, and for those itching for a closer look at this handheld, AVing has the goods. As expected, this sucka looks a tad large when compared to one's palm, but we're sure it'll still warm the hearts of some. Without further ado, head on past the break for a few more snapshots."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/hisham-20070928-engadgetmobile_9-26-07-912_2.jpg" /><br /><br />While its not exactly clear what the providence of the photos are (the write-up in AVING seems to imply it was from the original launch earlier this month), I'm sure no one will object to more real-life photos of the device! I'm a bit dubious about the retail price quoted - $599 for the Asia Pacific region makes the 912 very competitive at its spec level. I'm guessing $699 is closer to the mark, though this is more a factor of the declining value of the US dollar more than anything else. In any case, enjoy the pics!

[emuelle1]

I was giving some thought to the iPaq 6945, but his one looks interesting. Plus, HP is not likely to offer a WM6 upgrade for the 69xx line; at least, not that I could find.

[AtTheCross]

I just don't get it, $599 or $699 and no public outcry about the price but the iPhone first came out at $599 and everyone was screaming about the high price.

[surur]

I just don't get it, $599 or $699 and no public outcry about the price but the iPhone first came out at $599 and everyone was screaming about the high price.

Yes, especially as both devices have 3G, GPS, Exchange integration, 3 Megapixel camera and 3rd party apps! They are obviously exactly the same value!

[fresh-popcorn]

I just don't get it, $599 or $699 and no public outcry about the price but the iPhone first came out at $599 and everyone was screaming about the high price.


The iPhone was sold at at&amp;t with no discounts for new 2 year commitment pricing, the HP prices you see are probably a unbranded pricing, when or if at&amp;t decides to release it they will have a 2 year discounted commitment pricing.

[AtTheCross]

treo 750 $399.99 - At&amp;T
Blackberry $349.99 - AT&amp;T
Motorola Q Black 329.99 - Verizon
XV6700 $399.99 - Verizon

These are also the 2yr contract prices for the hardware, these are 'mature' products, when they first came out they were a lot more.

Not trying to start an aurgument or anything, I don't own an iPhone but it just seems strange that there was so much press about how much the iPhone was. $699 for the HP912 seems really high, but no public outcry

[lorettaboy]

treo 750 $399.99 - At&amp;T
Blackberry $349.99 - AT&amp;T
Motorola Q Black 329.99 - Verizon
XV6700 $399.99 - Verizon

These are also the 2yr contract prices for the hardware, these are 'mature' products, when they first came out they were a lot more.

Not trying to start an aurgument or anything, I don't own an iPhone but it just seems strange that there was so much press about how much the iPhone was. $699 for the HP912 seems really high, but no public outcry


Many of us on this site have been paying up to and above $1000 for our mobile devices for several years now, in-part because of their superior feature set. Potential iPhone customers, on the other hand, who are used to purchasing moto razors' and the like, will of course make a stink about the $600 price tag.

[virain]

I just don't get it, $599 or $699 and no public outcry about the price but the iPhone first came out at $599 and everyone was screaming about the high price.
You can't compare Apple Inc. and oranges. Inspite of glorified OS, iPhone is no more than you regular dumb phone/music palyer. That's what Steve Jobs and Co want it to be, at least for now. It would be better to compare to Motorola Rokr or SE W960i or something along these lines. WM devices are powerful versatile tools for business, intertainment, travel and many other uses, including paperweights :wink: They are customizable with 3rd party soft, have access to MS Exchange, and other push mail services. Files can be stored on a flash memorey card, so it gives you vertualy unlimited storage (as many SD cards as you can afford). and much much more. So to compare WM devices would be more appropriate to something like SE P1i running very good stable and versitile Symbian OS. Here you can show cons and pros as you have what to compare.
As for new HP device, I think $599 is a goode price, as it seems to be an afford to put all the previos mishaps (s.a. Ipaq 6315) behind and to win back business customer with impressive spec's, but still, needs to work on design.

[emuelle1]

True, most potential iPhone customers only compared it to subsidized phones. Don't forget, Windows Mobile users are also used to being able to replace their own batteries. How many of us have a #6 torx driver from the days when batteries were internal? I had to replace a switchboard in my old 3765.

I have heard reports that the iPhone will work on Exchange, but obviously this is not a native function and requires some skill to setup. Computerworld once ran a commentary piece recommending IT departments start learning how to setup and maintain IMAP mail for iPhone users.

The one thing that I think falls in Apple INC.'s favor is that they manufacture products for consumers. I do get tired of hearing about MS's "business customers" when told about functionality that we can't have, like wi-fi ActiveSync after WM2003SE/ActiveSuck 3.8.

I love your comment, virain. It makes me want to start Orange INC. and manufacture Windows Mobile devices just to provide the market with the cliche "You can't compare Apple INC to Orange INC."

[ecsk2]

True, most potential iPhone customers only compared it to subsidized phones. Don't forget, Windows Mobile users are also used to being able to replace their own batteries. How many of us have a #6 torx driver from the days when batteries were internal? I had to replace a switchboard in my old 3765.

In all fairness though, having an unlocked iPhone right now, I don't have a need to swap batteries on it, it runs with quite constant browsing (and constant EDGE on as it does) a full day, unlike the WM devices which I have had when you "force" it to stay connected with say Skype you're fortunate if you can get anything over 3 hours, don't get me wrong I am most likely going to sell the iPhone mainly because my wife (I have my Sidekick and OQO 02 with 3G WWAN) doesn't like it as much as the Treo 750 she had uptill now, she likes the "precision" of the stylus interaciton.


I have heard reports that the iPhone will work on Exchange, but obviously this is not a native function and requires some skill to setup. Computerworld once ran a commentary piece recommending IT departments start learning how to setup and maintain IMAP mail for iPhone users.

Well the .mac emails are in fact IMAP and you get 10GB (yes I recently become a Apple Mac Pro owner...) and it works just great with the iPhone, and you can set it up to pull in emails from other servers including IMAP so...


The one thing that I think falls in Apple INC.'s favor is that they manufacture products for consumers. I do get tired of hearing about MS's "business customers" when told about functionality that we can't have, like wi-fi ActiveSync after WM2003SE/ActiveSuck 3.8.

The firmware update to the iPhone that came this past week (thursday) enables iTunes over wifi, but since it also disables the unlock, I haven't tried it yet.


I love your comment, virain. It makes me want to start Orange INC. and manufacture Windows Mobile devices just to provide the market with the cliche "You can't compare Apple INC to Orange INC."

Sorry I think you might be a little late :)
http://www.orange.com/english/home.php
I believe they were one of the operators standing in line to become the iPhone exclusive distributor in the UK? It went to O2 though..

[ecsk2]

True, most potential iPhone customers only compared it to subsidized phones. Don't forget, Windows Mobile users are also used to being able to replace their own batteries. How many of us have a #6 torx driver from the days when batteries were internal? I had to replace a switchboard in my old 3765.

In all fairness though, having an unlocked iPhone right now, I don't have a need to swap batteries on it, it runs with quite constant browsing (and constant EDGE on as it does) a full day, unlike the WM devices which I have had when you "force" it to stay connected with say Skype you're fortunate if you can get anything over 3 hours, don't get me wrong I am most likely going to sell the iPhone mainly because my wife (I have my Sidekick and OQO 02 with 3G WWAN) doesn't like it as much as the Treo 750 she had uptill now, she likes the "precision" of the stylus interaciton.


I have heard reports that the iPhone will work on Exchange, but obviously this is not a native function and requires some skill to setup. Computerworld once ran a commentary piece recommending IT departments start learning how to setup and maintain IMAP mail for iPhone users.

Well the .mac emails are in fact IMAP and you get 10GB (yes I recently become a Apple Mac Pro owner...) and it works just great with the iPhone, and you can set it up to pull in emails from other servers including IMAP so...


The one thing that I think falls in Apple INC.'s favor is that they manufacture products for consumers. I do get tired of hearing about MS's "business customers" when told about functionality that we can't have, like wi-fi ActiveSync after WM2003SE/ActiveSuck 3.8.

The firmware update to the iPhone that came this past week (thursday) enables iTunes over wifi, but since it also disables the unlock, I haven't tried it yet.


I love your comment, virain. It makes me want to start Orange INC. and manufacture Windows Mobile devices just to provide the market with the cliche "You can't compare Apple INC to Orange INC."

Sorry I think you might be a little late :)
http://www.orange.com/english/home.php
I believe they were one of the operators standing in line to become the iPhone exclusive distributor in the UK? It went to O2 though..

[ecsk2]

I just don't get it, $599 or $699 and no public outcry about the price but the iPhone first came out at $599 and everyone was screaming about the high price.
You can't compare Apple Inc. and oranges. Inspite of glorified OS, iPhone is no more than you regular dumb phone/music palyer. That's what Steve Jobs and Co want it to be, at least for now. It would be better to compare to Motorola Rokr or SE W960i or something along these lines. WM devices are powerful versatile tools for business, intertainment, travel and many other uses, including paperweights :wink: They are customizable with 3rd party soft, have access to MS Exchange, and other push mail services. Files can be stored on a flash memorey card, so it gives you vertualy unlimited storage (as many SD cards as you can afford). and much much more. So to compare WM devices would be more appropriate to something like SE P1i running very good stable and versitile Symbian OS. Here you can show cons and pros as you have what to compare.
As for new HP device, I think $599 is a goode price, as it seems to be an afford to put all the previos mishaps (s.a. Ipaq 6315) behind and to win back business customer with impressive spec's, but still, needs to work on design.

Although I agree with most of your comments, I feel it is unfair that people look at the iPhone as being as "dumb" as Apple it trying to "keep" it, because there is PLENTY of 3rd party software that can be installed natively onto it, just not supported by Apple, in fact they "closed the door" on it (at least for now, see my prev post), but let's just hope it goes the same route as did MP3s (which created the need for an iPod/iPhone in the first place), which also started out in the semi-legal (or totally illegal) field only to become a legalized "tool" for music exchange.

Currently for those who haven't been keeping up the iPhone runs at $399 yes still with a 2yr contract, however with Apple you can walk in to the Apple store pay the price (thats for 2 yrs contract) and walk out, just as if you would've bought a mouse, no additional contracts or anything, all that is handled through iTunes when you activate it, but since if you did like me you never activated it the way it was intended you've never signed ANY contract (ok yes you have signed the SW contract when the iPhone logs onto your iTunes the first time).

Anyhow why am I here? Because my wife (who the iPhone was "for" :) you can only buy so many gadgets for "yourself" right? :)) doesn't like the way you have to things with the finger she prefers the accuracy of the stylus (which is an Apple invention in the first place, ironically).

Now when it comes to UI and the way the browser works and the battery time, and how nicely un-noticebly it switches between WWAN and WIFI the iPhone gets a big thumbs up from me, also one last thing it is incredible what they have been able to do with QVGA (ok its TWO QVGA next to each other making an HVGA screen) resolution, unlike anything else I've seen with so relatively low resolution.

Oh I almost forgot what triggered me to walk to my PC (oops sorry Apple :)) and type all this, is I clicked on the "QUOTE" button of this post on my iPhone and was going to type the reply, but the whole window to type in was FULL and there was no way that I could figure out how to scroll DWN inside that window (the one I am typing inside now) so this was an additiona BIG MINUS in my book on the iPhone, also the only way I can stream my favorite international radio stations is over ORB (that just isn't the same thing as 9/10 times it won't connect) the streams I listen to are available in WMA only...

[virain]

Although I agree with most of your comments, I feel it is unfair that people look at the iPhone as being as "dumb" as Apple it trying to "keep" it, because there is PLENTY of 3rd party software that can be installed natively onto it, just not supported by Apple, in fact they "closed the door" on it (at least for now, see my prev post), but let's just hope it goes the same route as did MP3s (which created the need for an iPod/iPhone in the first place), which also started out in the semi-legal (or totally illegal) field only to become a legalized "tool" for music exchange.

Currently for those who haven't been keeping up the iPhone runs at $399 yes still with a 2yr contract, however with Apple you can walk in to the Apple store pay the price (thats for 2 yrs contract) and walk out, just as if you would've bought a mouse, no additional contracts or anything, all that is handled through iTunes when you activate it, but since if you did like me you never activated it the way it was intended you've never signed ANY contract (ok yes you have signed the SW contract when the iPhone logs onto your iTunes the first time).

Anyhow why am I here? Because my wife (who the iPhone was "for" :) you can only buy so many gadgets for "yourself" right? :)) doesn't like the way you have to things with the finger she prefers the accuracy of the stylus (which is an Apple invention in the first place, ironically).

Now when it comes to UI and the way the browser works and the battery time, and how nicely un-noticebly it switches between WWAN and WIFI the iPhone gets a big thumbs up from me, also one last thing it is incredible what they have been able to do with QVGA (ok its TWO QVGA next to each other making an HVGA screen) resolution, unlike anything else I've seen with so relatively low resolution.

Oh I almost forgot what triggered me to walk to my PC (oops sorry Apple :)) and type all this, is I clicked on the "QUOTE" button of this post on my iPhone and was going to type the reply, but the whole window to type in was FULL and there was no way that I could figure out how to scroll DWN inside that window (the one I am typing inside now) so this was an additiona BIG MINUS in my book on the iPhone, also the only way I can stream my favorite international radio stations is over ORB (that just isn't the same thing as 9/10 times it won't connect) the streams I listen to are available in WMA only...

LOL :mrgreen: I get it! iPhone is a great "open" "smart"phone, but....
Don't you think too many buts? You can install 3rd party apps and unlock it, BUT if you do upgrade you loose all those things and money you've spent on unlocks (unless you hacked it) You can get kinda push mail BUT it has to be .mac thing. It has great interface BUT no stylus precision (BTW I may be wrong, wasn't Palm to introduce stylus in PDA?) iPhone has a great screen, BUT you can't figure out how to scroll down, I guess this phone is too smart. So what is good about it? great battery life and how the screen looks? And if you cannot or not allowed to do anything but basic stuff what dumb phone can do, what is definition of a smart phone? Touch screen? BTW Apple's business formula is what you get with all those so called "open source" devices. "I made it! It's MINE!" Don't even think to stick your dirty hands in it! Iwill make ALL the money from it!" So, I guess Microsoft formula "We give you canvas, you paint on it!" more user and developer friendly, that is why WM is a succes inspite of the way MS treated it from the beginning.

[ecsk2]

LOL :mrgreen: I get it! iPhone is a great "open" "smart"phone, but....

If you read MY post you'll see that's NOT my words, so are they yours? My only point was/is that the device as such isn't as crippled/limited as it is made to be by Apple+AT&amp;T. It's a fresh new device, albeit the plenty of limitations indeed, and if nothing else it will and already has make the competition to make some more radical updates/changes that wee mobile gadget geeks so desperately want as the WM devices with all their capabilities are getting old and in fact to use it you comfortably you have to install and buy a number of programs. (I've had both WM and WM SP and even HPC devices plenty and plenty).


Don't you think too many buts?

Yes indeed, and that was my whole point, to not confuse the actual potential of the device from a technical standpoint vs. the crippled state it is in. If you're familiar with the Paralells and VMWare for the Mac computers, it dawned on me after having had the iPhone for a few days that *IF* I was able to get a similair system where I could run my PPC software on a virtual PPC on the iPhone I could run all the things I lack on it just fine, and it'd be 75% of where I'd like to be, I still personally want a physical qwerty keyboard (which to date nothing compares to my sidekick 3 which I'm typing this on), aside from my OQO 02 with 3G WWAN but hey that's an UMPC not a PDA.


You can install 3rd party apps and unlock it, BUT if you do upgrade you loose all those things and money you've spent on unlocks (unless you hacked it)

I haven't paid a penny more than I paid at the Apple store, these no charge for the unlocking anymore that chnaged in like 24~48hrs after the release of the first unlocking services, I used the instructions on modmyiphone, without any problem. Also the 3rd party software is all free (the ones you install natively anyhow).


You can get kinda push mail BUT it has to be .mac thing.

You can use the .mac as an email server as any other mail server and with 10GB storage its a fair deal I'd say, I was VERY reluctant myself and didn't take up Apple on the $69.99 first year offer, but after biting the bullet at $99.99/yr I have to say I really like it, and trust me with runing some 400~500 emails/24hrs I've tried MOST email solutions from SMS->email in the 90's to true push email now.


It has great interface BUT no stylus precision (BTW I may be wrong, wasn't Palm to introduce stylus in PDA?)

The PDA as such started with the Appel Newton.


iPhone has a great screen, BUT you can't figure out how to scroll down, I guess this phone is too smart.

Not sure if you're just finding pleasure in being sarcastic of if my post was really that unclear, the point being the window you POST in was full of text as I was using the QUOTE button, and I don't think there is a way to scroll withIN this window on the iPhone...


So what is good about it? great battery life and how the screen looks? And if you cannot or not allowed to do anything but basic stuff what dumb phone can do, what is definition of a smart phone? Touch screen? BTW Apple's business formula is what you get with all those so called "open source" devices. "I made it! It's MINE!" Don't even think to stick your dirty hands in it! I will make ALL the money from it!"

Well if you would familiarize yourself with other devices out there you'd see the benefit of both worlds, usually more closed setups such as this Sidekick or the iPhone typically work more stable and less need for restarts and what not, for instance on this SK ALL applications are runing at once, unlike most other smartphones which you have to restart or close prgs jus because it won't handle all at once. So there's plus and minus on all setups really.

Actually Apple is encourageing the web 2.0 applications and offers SDK for it too, and I personally think that WILL be the future, with faster wwan and solutions like Google documents where your application is actuall online.


So, I guess Microsoft formula "We give you canvas, you paint on it!" more user and developer friendly, that is why WM is a succes inspite of the way MS treated it from the beginning.

I don't know if I would call it a "success" its just what we're stuck with, if there was an alternative be it whatever OS with more options and capabilities I'm sure WM would be in serious trouble quite rapidly.

[dh]

Well I have an HP6940 and I'm honestly getting to hate the "chicklet" keyboard, tiny screen form factor.

The phone of that type I think is worthwhile is the Symbol MC35, which at least has a QVGA screen. I had one as a demo for a while, but didn't love it enough to buy.

A couple of weeks ago I bought an iPhone for my wife to use and I must say it's a really well thought out, easy to use product. She is totally non technical and there is no way she'd use any PPC phone, but Apple seem to have got it right for her.

All she needs is a good phone, calender, music and to be able to show videos from our wedding business and the iPhone does all of this just about perfectly.

The HP I'd most likely buy is the new PDA. Maybe I'll go back to a two device setup.

[ecsk2]

Well I have an HP6940 and I'm honestly getting to hate the "chicklet" keyboard, tiny screen form factor.


Very true, had the HW6945 for a while, and didn't like the battery time nor screen size on it, the only PDA/Phone size (meaning not UMPC as my OQO 02) with a truely great keyboard is the Sidekicks, with not only good spacing but more importantly the FIVE row keyboard, some of these smartphones with qwerty keyboards with only 4 or even 3 rows only is almost as bad as the iPhone due to the double clicking to numbers and any special symbols.


The phone of that type I think is worthwhile is the Symbol MC35, which at least has a QVGA screen. I had one as a demo for a while, but didn't love it enough to buy.

Yeah I've eyed those too but their price, size and only QVGA didn't appeal to me, and Motorola also calls it a corporate PDA with WWAN capabilities (such as voice calls) rather than a phone.


A couple of weeks ago I bought an iPhone for my wife to use and I must say it's a really well thought out, easy to use product. She is totally non technical and there is no way she'd use any PPC phone, but Apple seem to have got it right for her.

All she needs is a good phone, calender, music and to be able to show videos from our wedding business and the iPhone does all of this just about perfectly.


See that was my plan too, exactly and thereby have the iPhone around handy if/when I'd prefer to us it say for Google maps, but my wife's gotten spoiled with the stylus which she prefers. As for simplicity you CAN with some effort make somewhat similair setup for the WM phones, ironically I had PPC interface with al black background and icons laid out on the homepage very much like on the iPhone long before it came out, just because I always used my PCs with black background.

Now to make a PPC the same userfriendly you'll need to buy 2~3 prgs but at least you can and do so ''legally'' ;)

I have to say I had joined the iPhone bashers somewhat prior to getting one just because, you can't (at least officially, and when it came out no hope of it at all) add 3rd party sw, and certain windows media non compatibilites (stream live radio) and so on, but after have used it for a while now I'm impressed on certain things but it is a fact that I'm selling it within the next month or so, hence not keeping it, then the only devices I've ended up keeping the past few yrs are the sidekicks and nokia communicators :)


The HP I'd most likely buy is the new PDA. Maybe I'll go back to a two device setup.

Oh for most of two devices is unevitable for at least a few more yrs :(

[virain]

LOL :mrgreen: I get it! iPhone is a great "open" "smart"phone, but....

If you read MY post you'll see that's NOT my words, so are they yours? My only point was/is that the device as such isn't as crippled/limited as it is made to be by Apple+AT&amp;T. It's a fresh new device, albeit the plenty of limitations indeed, and if nothing else it will and already has make the competition to make some more radical updates/changes that wee mobile gadget geeks so desperately want as the WM devices with all their capabilities are getting old and in fact to use it you comfortably you have to install and buy a number of programs. (I've had both WM and WM SP and even HPC devices plenty and plenty).


Don't you think too many buts?

Yes indeed, and that was my whole point, to not confuse the actual potential of the device from a technical standpoint vs. the crippled state it is in. If you're familiar with the Paralells and VMWare for the Mac computers, it dawned on me after having had the iPhone for a few days that *IF* I was able to get a similair system where I could run my PPC software on a virtual PPC on the iPhone I could run all the things I lack on it just fine, and it'd be 75% of where I'd like to be, I still personally want a physical qwerty keyboard (which to date nothing compares to my sidekick 3 which I'm typing this on), aside from my OQO 02 with 3G WWAN but hey that's an UMPC not a PDA.


You can install 3rd party apps and unlock it, BUT if you do upgrade you loose all those things and money you've spent on unlocks (unless you hacked it)

I haven't paid a penny more than I paid at the Apple store, these no charge for the unlocking anymore that chnaged in like 24~48hrs after the release of the first unlocking services, I used the instructions on modmyiphone, without any problem. Also the 3rd party software is all free (the ones you install natively anyhow).


You can get kinda push mail BUT it has to be .mac thing.

You can use the .mac as an email server as any other mail server and with 10GB storage its a fair deal I'd say, I was VERY reluctant myself and didn't take up Apple on the $69.99 first year offer, but after biting the bullet at $99.99/yr I have to say I really like it, and trust me with runing some 400~500 emails/24hrs I've tried MOST email solutions from SMS->email in the 90's to true push email now.


It has great interface BUT no stylus precision (BTW I may be wrong, wasn't Palm to introduce stylus in PDA?)

The PDA as such started with the Appel Newton.


iPhone has a great screen, BUT you can't figure out how to scroll down, I guess this phone is too smart.

Not sure if you're just finding pleasure in being sarcastic of if my post was really that unclear, the point being the window you POST in was full of text as I was using the QUOTE button, and I don't think there is a way to scroll withIN this window on the iPhone...


So what is good about it? great battery life and how the screen looks? And if you cannot or not allowed to do anything but basic stuff what dumb phone can do, what is definition of a smart phone? Touch screen? BTW Apple's business formula is what you get with all those so called "open source" devices. "I made it! It's MINE!" Don't even think to stick your dirty hands in it! I will make ALL the money from it!"

Well if you would familiarize yourself with other devices out there you'd see the benefit of both worlds, usually more closed setups such as this Sidekick or the iPhone typically work more stable and less need for restarts and what not, for instance on this SK ALL applications are runing at once, unlike most other smartphones which you have to restart or close prgs jus because it won't handle all at once. So there's plus and minus on all setups really.

Actually Apple is encourageing the web 2.0 applications and offers SDK for it too, and I personally think that WILL be the future, with faster wwan and solutions like Google documents where your application is actuall online.


So, I guess Microsoft formula "We give you canvas, you paint on it!" more user and developer friendly, that is why WM is a succes inspite of the way MS treated it from the beginning.

I don't know if I would call it a "success" its just what we're stuck with, if there was an alternative be it whatever OS with more options and capabilities I'm sure WM would be in serious trouble quite rapidly.

O'K! I feel a lot of anger here! Let's get back to the beginning of this argument. Shell we?
I said that it makes no scense to compare iPhone to WM device "You can't compare Apple Inc to Oranges" remember? And this is why: If you look at the name of this forum you'll see words Pocket PC Thoughts. Just as a reminder PC stands for personal computer. Would you agree with me on this one? So, what you would expect from WM device is to be a computer at a palm of your hand. Right? And that's what you get, more or less. Unfortunately, manufacturers forgot it for a while, and instead of handheld PC with a phone functions start making Phones that look like a handheld PC. What would you expect from PC? computing power! But how can you get it with bearly breathing processor and limited memory? Fortunatly looks like tide is changing, look at Tytn II, new Ipaq's, etc..
On the other hand iPhone, with an I, as in iPod. Inspite of its OS capabilities, it's an iPod with phone capabilities. That's what Apple it wants to be, and what it is. Just live with it. You can hack it, unlock it as much as you want, Apple will do everything it can to stop you. Relock it with firmware upgrades, canceling warranty, etc.. until it changes its view on the device. So, how can you compare those two? You wouldn't compare VCR or DVD player to a PC, even they have some common functions, such as play video. And I don't even want to mention Sidekick. It is more typewriter fo your emails. BTW if it's so good, how come you posted the same post in this topic 3 or 4 times? If you are really did it with your Sidekick? My point is: All those devices have interface best suited to its purpose. Can it be improved? Yes! but not replaced with one another. It wouldn't make scence, I like WM Today screen. I have all important info right infront of me ev ery time I power up the Device, not just buttons showing me how many appointments I have today. And I do write, draw, and navigate with stylus! It gives more flexibility, and more natural than typing as ONLY method of input. But that's personal preferencies. Beauty is in the hands of beholder.
It would be more appropriate to compare WM to Palm (oops, it's almost gone) or to Symbian. And I can honestly tell you. I had SE P900, That was fantastic for it's time device, WELL ahead of WM! Even more, some functions that SE had 3-4 years ago, still missing in WM or just were introduced with WM6 (HTML email for example). So if you feel that you are "stuck" with WM, try Symbian, it may be the answer you are looking for. BTW saying that there's no alternative to WM, you just proved my point on MS success. It pretty much has bitten competitors. And honestly, Symbian had a very good chance to do to windows what WM did to them, Palm and others. It missed its opportunity. BTW good topic for forum, "Great technologies killed by corporate grid and stupidity" Remember Atari, now Palm, any other examples?

[Jason Lee]

Didn't this thread have something to do with a new HP pocket pc or something?

[ecsk2]

O'K! I feel a lot of anger here! Let's get back to the beginning of this argument. Shell we?

Anger? Over what ignorance?
Shell is another corporate company yes.


I said that it makes no scense to compare iPhone to WM device

It makes no what?


"You can't compare Apple Inc to Oranges" remember?

Correct Apple inc makes hw, sw and now stepped into the mobile market.
Orange is a service provider.


And this is why: If you look at the name of this forum you'll see words Pocket PC Thoughts. Just as a reminder PC stands for personal computer.

Exactly, its not Pocket Microsoft or MS. Correct and PC as such has nothing to do with Microsoft as it first of all doesn't refer to MS products only nor does MS make computers :)


Would you agree with me on this one? So, what you would expect from WM device is to be a computer at a palm of your hand.


There are handtop PCs also yes with a vareity of OS' just like in the PDA market.


Right? And that's what you get, more or less.

I think you've confused hardware, software and manufacturers all together allthough in the case of Apple its one and the same, that's about the only one that's it is one and the same today. PC refers to hardware, any such, WM refers to Windows Mobile, hence Microsoft only, please don't confuse them all its so easy to do but isn't a very educated thing to do.



Unfortunately, manufacturers forgot it for a while, and instead of handheld PC with a phone functions start making Phones that look like a handheld PC.

I'm not sure what you're talking about as you're not stating if you are talking about HW or SW manufacturer, but the only phone that were made (and still are) to look like a handheld PC (or officially HPC) would be the Nokia Communicators, and they have never run WM software, mainly symbian, but not only. I've owned most of those models along with the very successful HP HPC lineup all the way to the last models.



What would you expect from PC? computing power!

Not sure I'm following your logic here, have you owned an HPC?


But how can you get it with bearly breathing processor and limited memory?


There's a product out there with *UN* limited memory?


Fortunatly looks like tide is changing, look at Tytn II, new Ipaq's, etc..

Or we could just say HTC :) which makes all of these anyhow.


On the other hand iPhone, with an I, as in iPod. Inspite of its OS capabilities, it's an iPod with phone capabilities. That's what Apple it wants to be, and what it is. Just live with it. You can hack it, unlock it as much as you want, Apple will do everything it can to stop you. Relock it with firmware upgrades, canceling warranty, etc.. until it changes its view on the device. So, how can you compare those two?

It sounds like you're bashing something you've never owned or tried yourself personally, I don't limite myself to one OS I use on a daily basis, OSs like Danger, OS X, Win XP, Win XP tablet, WM5 if you broaden your angle of preception more you will have a fuller view of the whole mobile market. As for the iPhone being an iPod, that just shows how much (or little if you're the half empty type of person :)) you've had first hand experience with these devices, the iPods run linux not OS X so let not compare apples and oranges ok :)

BTW on this "I" comment, are you trying to say the iMac is merly an iPod with a gloryfied screen :) also this thread is about *i*Paq 912 :)


You wouldn't compare VCR or DVD player to a PC, even they have some common functions, such as play video.

There is often articles that compare things when one technology might start replaceing the other, so solidstate video players have indeed been compared to older generation video players, they all have computing power as such, and yes today you can just remove your old video player with a home computer all together, in fact HP is one to offer such solutions, still at a hich cost though.


And I don't even want to mention Sidekick. It is more typewriter fo your emails.

If you don't want to mention the SK, which device is it you're "forced" to comment on below? :) Again sounds like you're commenting on something you've not owned or used? BTW are you talking about SK SKC, SK2, or SK3, or SKID, SKLX etc etc?

Well you're correct in the typewriter, it has the closest thing to a typewriter keyboard of anything on the market, and if you can find me another true qwerty keyboard (read 5 rows) device that can stay on for at least 10~12hrs with constant edge, and has browser, IMs, SMS, Phone, and can handle emails the way it does with 4 completely independent email inboxes that can sence with which account it should reply automatically, I've buy it right away. Yes its a VERY limited device more so than the iPhone but what it does it does very well with no lockups for months despite my 400~500 emails/24hrs on it. Not to mention the unique (which every mobile device should have!) automatic backup of EVERYTHING, emails, IMs, favorites and addressbook to the backend server. I could throw this thing into the ocean literally, and have *all* my stuff (including settings and ringtones and what not) back in my pocket within the time it takes to activate a new device and card, and yes I've been there done that too, except for the part about throwing it into the ocean :) yes I understand that's not really tied into the Danger OS but its something that I am very confused as to why its not been implemented with more business type devices as the Palms, Blackberries etc after all the Sidekick are very much targeted towards the teenagers that love things like MySpace etc.



BTW if it's so good, how come you posted the same post in this topic 3 or 4 times?

Thank you for pointing that out, that'd be due to MY computing power (or lack thereof) and doing other things during the day while around and about.



If you are really did it with your Sidekick?

Correct as I am also with this reply (typing on my Sk).


My point is: All those devices have interface best suited to its purpose. Can it be improved? Yes!

I'm confused if its "best suited" it can't be improved since it already IS "best" :)

I couldn' t disagree more strongly, if these devices you mentioned would be best suited for what they do, the only ppl who would've gotten an iPhone for instance would be the diehard Apple fans, since that is far from the case this argument doesn't hold, nor does it match up with many of us geeks "wants" and "demands" we use our WM devices only because nothing else will do what we want at this point, but many of us are fed up with the serious issues surrounding the "add on" upon "add on" that MS has been doing with their OS' rather than re-inventing it. Do I use MS products? Yes daily but I'm not at all content with the way they perform.


but not replaced with one another. It wouldn't make scence,

Wouldn't make what?


I like WM Today screen. I have all important info right infront of me ev ery time I power up the Device, not just buttons showing me how many appointments I have today.

In std MS form, or modified by one, two or more 3rd party sw? Do you have a screenshot?



And I do write, draw, and navigate with stylus! It gives more flexibility, and more natural than typing as ONLY method of input. But that's personal preferencies.

I've never adopted to writing with a stylus, that just doesn't work for me, but yes that's my personal prefrence, or prefrences if you want.


Beauty is in the hands of beholder.
It would be more appropriate to compare WM to Palm (oops, it's almost gone) or to Symbian.

WM is on our Palm, now Symbian, Palm and WM as OS' are also like comparing apples and oranges, very much so, one of the main reasons I'm not currently using any of the two OS' as they don't do what I want currently (read: can't do).



And I can honestly tell you.

...and thus far you've not?



I had SE P900, That was fantastic for it's time device, WELL ahead of WM! Even more, some functions that SE had 3-4 years ago, still missing in WM or just were introduced with WM6 (HTML email for example). So if you feel that you are "stuck" with WM, try Symbian, it may be the answer you are looking for.

Me stuck with WM? No, its on one device used daily but I'm not stuck with anything, I've owned all generation of the Nokia Communicators even before they used Symbian on them and even before they became color. As for the Nokia and Ericsson device, I've worked a decade or so at the production plant of these devices (yes both), so I've become familiar with them, also I've been using emails on the mobile since 1995 and since used most variations and forms.



BTW saying that there's no alternative to WM, you just proved my point on MS success.

The fact that we are driving cars that aren't electric far from proves the ones we have to be success' except for the corporations that have become rich on the ordeal, btw electric cars were readily made and available a century or so ago! :)


It pretty much has bitten competitors. And honestly, Symbian had a very good chance to do to windows what WM did to them, Palm and others. It missed its opportunity.

So is that why there some 6 million users (80% or so) of Symbian out there while there is some (maybe now?) 1.5 million users of WM?

http://www.canalys.com/pr/images/r2006102b.gif


Since these statistics are about a year old but you can read more about it here:
http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=1362&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1#more1362


BTW good topic for forum, "Great technologies killed by corporate grid and stupidity" Remember Atari, now Palm, any other examples?

Are you talking about the WM with some 17% marketshare or RIM with 3.5%?

[ecsk2]

Didn't this thread have something to do with a new HP pocket pc or something?

Thank you! Yes let's get back to the iPaq topic that's what HARDWARE this thread is about!

[Cirrob]

I would have read this but I only have so many days off per year.


O'K! I feel a lot of anger here! Let's get back to the beginning of this argument. Shell we?

Anger? Over what ignorance?
Shell is another corporate company yes.


I said that it makes no scense to compare iPhone to WM device

It makes no what?


"You can't compare Apple Inc to Oranges" remember?

Correct Apple inc makes hw, sw and now stepped into the mobile market.
Orange is a service provider.


And this is why: If you look at the name of this forum you'll see words Pocket PC Thoughts. Just as a reminder PC stands for personal computer.

Exactly, its not Pocket Microsoft or MS. Correct and PC as such has nothing to do with Microsoft as it first of all doesn't refer to MS products only nor does MS make computers :)


Would you agree with me on this one? So, what you would expect from WM device is to be a computer at a palm of your hand.


There are handtop PCs also yes with a vareity of OS' just like in the PDA market.


Right? And that's what you get, more or less.

I think you've confused hardware, software and manufacturers all together allthough in the case of Apple its one and the same, that's about the only one that's it is one and the same today. PC refers to hardware, any such, WM refers to Windows Mobile, hence Microsoft only, please don't confuse them all its so easy to do but isn't a very educated thing to do.



Unfortunately, manufacturers forgot it for a while, and instead of handheld PC with a phone functions start making Phones that look like a handheld PC.

I'm not sure what you're talking about as you're not stating if you are talking about HW or SW manufacturer, but the only phone that were made (and still are) to look like a handheld PC (or officially HPC) would be the Nokia Communicators, and they have never run WM software, mainly symbian, but not only. I've owned most of those models along with the very successful HP HPC lineup all the way to the last models.



What would you expect from PC? computing power!

Not sure I'm following your logic here, have you owned an HPC?


But how can you get it with bearly breathing processor and limited memory?


There's a product out there with *UN* limited memory?


Fortunatly looks like tide is changing, look at Tytn II, new Ipaq's, etc..

Or we could just say HTC :) which makes all of these anyhow.


On the other hand iPhone, with an I, as in iPod. Inspite of its OS capabilities, it's an iPod with phone capabilities. That's what Apple it wants to be, and what it is. Just live with it. You can hack it, unlock it as much as you want, Apple will do everything it can to stop you. Relock it with firmware upgrades, canceling warranty, etc.. until it changes its view on the device. So, how can you compare those two?

It sounds like you're bashing something you've never owned or tried yourself personally, I don't limite myself to one OS I use on a daily basis, OSs like Danger, OS X, Win XP, Win XP tablet, WM5 if you broaden your angle of preception more you will have a fuller view of the whole mobile market. As for the iPhone being an iPod, that just shows how much (or little if you're the half empty type of person :)) you've had first hand experience with these devices, the iPods run linux not OS X so let not compare apples and oranges ok :)

BTW on this "I" comment, are you trying to say the iMac is merly an iPod with a gloryfied screen :) also this thread is about *i*Paq 912 :)


You wouldn't compare VCR or DVD player to a PC, even they have some common functions, such as play video.

There is often articles that compare things when one technology might start replaceing the other, so solidstate video players have indeed been compared to older generation video players, they all have computing power as such, and yes today you can just remove your old video player with a home computer all together, in fact HP is one to offer such solutions, still at a hich cost though.


And I don't even want to mention Sidekick. It is more typewriter fo your emails.

If you don't want to mention the SK, which device is it you're "forced" to comment on below? :) Again sounds like you're commenting on something you've not owned or used? BTW are you talking about SK SKC, SK2, or SK3, or SKID, SKLX etc etc?

Well you're correct in the typewriter, it has the closest thing to a typewriter keyboard of anything on the market, and if you can find me another true qwerty keyboard (read 5 rows) device that can stay on for at least 10~12hrs with constant edge, and has browser, IMs, SMS, Phone, and can handle emails the way it does with 4 completely independent email inboxes that can sence with which account it should reply automatically, I've buy it right away. Yes its a VERY limited device more so than the iPhone but what it does it does very well with no lockups for months despite my 400~500 emails/24hrs on it. Not to mention the unique (which every mobile device should have!) automatic backup of EVERYTHING, emails, IMs, favorites and addressbook to the backend server. I could throw this thing into the ocean literally, and have *all* my stuff (including settings and ringtones and what not) back in my pocket within the time it takes to activate a new device and card, and yes I've been there done that too, except for the part about throwing it into the ocean :) yes I understand that's not really tied into the Danger OS but its something that I am very confused as to why its not been implemented with more business type devices as the Palms, Blackberries etc after all the Sidekick are very much targeted towards the teenagers that love things like MySpace etc.



BTW if it's so good, how come you posted the same post in this topic 3 or 4 times?

Thank you for pointing that out, that'd be due to MY computing power (or lack thereof) and doing other things during the day while around and about.



If you are really did it with your Sidekick?

Correct as I am also with this reply (typing on my Sk).


My point is: All those devices have interface best suited to its purpose. Can it be improved? Yes!

I'm confused if its "best suited" it can't be improved since it already IS "best" :)

I couldn' t disagree more strongly, if these devices you mentioned would be best suited for what they do, the only ppl who would've gotten an iPhone for instance would be the diehard Apple fans, since that is far from the case this argument doesn't hold, nor does it match up with many of us geeks "wants" and "demands" we use our WM devices only because nothing else will do what we want at this point, but many of us are fed up with the serious issues surrounding the "add on" upon "add on" that MS has been doing with their OS' rather than re-inventing it. Do I use MS products? Yes daily but I'm not at all content with the way they perform.


but not replaced with one another. It wouldn't make scence,

Wouldn't make what?


I like WM Today screen. I have all important info right infront of me ev ery time I power up the Device, not just buttons showing me how many appointments I have today.

In std MS form, or modified by one, two or more 3rd party sw? Do you have a screenshot?



And I do write, draw, and navigate with stylus! It gives more flexibility, and more natural than typing as ONLY method of input. But that's personal preferencies.

I've never adopted to writing with a stylus, that just doesn't work for me, but yes that's my personal prefrence, or prefrences if you want.


Beauty is in the hands of beholder.
It would be more appropriate to compare WM to Palm (oops, it's almost gone) or to Symbian.

WM is on our Palm, now Symbian, Palm and WM as OS' are also like comparing apples and oranges, very much so, one of the main reasons I'm not currently using any of the two OS' as they don't do what I want currently (read: can't do).



And I can honestly tell you.

...and thus far you've not?



I had SE P900, That was fantastic for it's time device, WELL ahead of WM! Even more, some functions that SE had 3-4 years ago, still missing in WM or just were introduced with WM6 (HTML email for example). So if you feel that you are "stuck" with WM, try Symbian, it may be the answer you are looking for.

Me stuck with WM? No, its on one device used daily but I'm not stuck with anything, I've owned all generation of the Nokia Communicators even before they used Symbian on them and even before they became color. As for the Nokia and Ericsson device, I've worked a decade or so at the production plant of these devices (yes both), so I've become familiar with them, also I've been using emails on the mobile since 1995 and since used most variations and forms.



BTW saying that there's no alternative to WM, you just proved my point on MS success.

The fact that we are driving cars that aren't electric far from proves the ones we have to be success' except for the corporations that have become rich on the ordeal, btw electric cars were readily made and available a century or so ago! :)


It pretty much has bitten competitors. And honestly, Symbian had a very good chance to do to windows what WM did to them, Palm and others. It missed its opportunity.

So is that why there some 6 million users (80% or so) of Symbian out there while there is some (maybe now?) 1.5 million users of WM?

http://www.canalys.com/pr/images/r2006102b.gif


Since these statistics are about a year old but you can read more about it here:
http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=1362&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1#more1362


BTW good topic for forum, "Great technologies killed by corporate grid and stupidity" Remember Atari, now Palm, any other examples?

Are you talking about the WM with some 17% marketshare or RIM with 3.5%?

[ecsk2]

I would have read this but I only have so many days off per year.

..and you quoted the whole thing, because? :)

[virain]

ecsk2, you are angree, and ignorance is your defence. Taking words out of contence, forgetting your own words to prove your point. Well, relax! :wink:

[ecsk2]

esks, you are angree, and ignorance is your defence. Taking words out of contence, forgetting your own words to prove your point. Well, relax! :wink:

Sorry but,

Who is "esks"
What is "angree","defence" and "contence"?

[Cirrob]

I thought that was obvious: so you would Know I was referencing your post and not the topic. One is an interesting read the other has nothing to do with it.


I would have read this but I only have so many days off per year.

..and you quoted the whole thing, because? :)

[Jason Lee]

Thanks for ruining a thread about a topic I was actually interested in reading about. :( I am now unsubscribing from the thead. I hope a moderator will come clean this up some day or just lock it.

[virain]

esks, you are angree, and ignorance is your defence. Taking words out of contence, forgetting your own words to prove your point. Well, relax! :wink:

Sorry but,

Who is "esks"
What is "angree","defence" and "contence"?
I am not going talk to you unless you come down. :| And BDW, if you so good at spelling: variety not vareity, although not allthough, check your mistakes first before you start correcting others. English is not my native language, what's your excuse?

[ecsk2]

And BDW, if you so good at spelling: variety not vareity, although not allthough, check your mistakes first before you start correcting others.

BTW you mean?
Point taken thank you! :)

English is not my native language, what's your excuse?

English is not my first language its more like 3rd or 4th, and typing without looking while driving or walking around isn't to recomend for MANY reasons, one being spelling errors :)

[ecsk2]

Thanks for ruining a thread about a topic I was actually interested in reading about. :( I am now unsubscribing from the thead. I hope a moderator will come clean this up some day or just lock it.

YES PLEASE that's the only reason I started reading/posting in this thread, and mind you *I* was NOT the one to bring in the iPhone into this thread :)

But I AGREE lets get this back to iPaq topic ok!?

[ecsk2]

"Earlier this month, HP loosed details on its iPAQ 900 series of PDA phones, and for those itching for a closer look at this handheld, AVing has the goods. As expected, this sucka looks a tad large when compared to one's palm, but we're sure it'll still warm the hearts of some. Without further ado, head on past the break for a few more snapshots."

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/hisham-20070928-engadgetmobile_9-26-07-912_2.jpg


Just another decent picture:

http://asia.cnet.com/cnet/i/r/2007/hh/41158161/sc001.jpg

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Thanks for ruining a thread about a topic I was actually interested in reading about. :( I am now unsubscribing from the thead. I hope a moderator will come clean this up some day or just lock it.

I agree. Thread locked.