Why Do You Stick With Windows Mobile As A Phone?

[Jon Westfall]

Windows Mobile Pocket PCs and Smartphones seem to be the ultimate phone devices. After all, what other phone out there can sync directly to an exchange server, play pretty much any media imaginable, browse the web with several different web browser choices, and offer a seemingly unlimited amount of third-party software? But for some reason, it seems they miss the mark on some of the most important phone features. My Jasjar is sluggish to answer the phone more than 50% of the time, resulting in the need to call people back. My K-Jam's Send/End buttons were worn down within a few weeks, requiring more than a subtle push to answer the calls there. My iPaq Mobile Messenger frequently is chugging along too much with it's own internal nonsense that placing a call takes 5 - 10 seconds longer than it should. These are the ultimate phone devices?<br /><br />Then again, I still stick with Windows Mobile for the reasons I cited above (e.g., the good parts). Why? Well, I truly believe that they are the best phone devices out there for my own needs. A "dumb" phone may be able to show my POP3 email box (...maybe...) but it can't get my email pushed to it, or easily sync my contacts, or make sending text messages ludicrously fast. So I stick with Windows Mobile, primarily Pocket PCs rather than Smartphones, despite the annoyances. It doesn't suprise me, however, that some get fed up and leave the platform while MS struggles to fix some very mundane things (In their defense, my Treo 750 is quite a bit faster at answering calls than my original i-Mate Pocket PC was!). <br /><br /><b>So what keeps you with this platform for a phone? </b>(despite our frequent questions or complaints!) <b>Or have you jumped ship and went to a dumb phone? And what are the deal-makers or breakers? </b> (e.g., what does MS have to fix within the next year or you're OUT!)

[rookcnu]

I agree with everything you said for why I continue with my pocket pc phone. I like the 3rd party apps the most, though. I love beta testing different software and participating in forums (like this one) to give/get feed back on software, hardware or just learning how to do various things.

I don't think it is just MS that has to fix things, though. It is the handest manufacturers as well. Yes - the whole "OK" button not really closing an app is a royal pain in the @#$, and the html e-mail issue is/was annoying that is now solved in Windows Mobile 6 (I have Cingular 8125 w/ WM5), etc.

What really ranks me is the handset manufacturers that continue to come out with units that take two steps forward in some areas, but one step back in others. So we get this wonderful handset with all the bells and whistles,... 520 mhz processor, memory that you die for, but then doesn't have Bluetooth 2.0. Or, it has BT 2.0 and then has a 195 mhz omap processor.

Just come out with something that has it all, but don't kill us on the price. I like the Kaiser, by the way.

Still,... I will never leave my ppc phone edition.

[Kash76]

Overall as a PIM solution there isn't a better package than Exchange and Activesync. Yes, we all have our stories but the integration is tough to beat! I've looked at moving to Gmail for my domain and doing some other goofy syncing but it just doesn't do everything I want with ease.

Also, compared to my Palm based products the software generally has a much more rich feature set. WeatherPanel, SPB products, Pocket Informant, newsbreak, etc are great programs. I could never find such rich software on the Palm.

[karen]

So that I can easily provide high level, remote support. Terminal services, e-mail with a better keyboard, etc.

I rarely use the voice part of my cell, but I use the data part day in and day out.

I treat my phone as more of a computer with voice than the other way around. I just wish Telus wouldn't have crippled it so much and that they'd not price data plans so high -- did anyone read Michael Geist's rant in The Toronto Star last week? He was dead on.

http://www.thestar.com/article/238678

From a technological perspective, most cellphones and wireless devices could manage email and text messaging, but were ill-suited for the full Internet experience including browsing and Internet video. That technology barrier has largely been eliminated, fuelled by popularity of devices such as the Apple iPhone.

The cost barrier still looms large, however. Canadian carriers have treated mobile Internet use as a business product, establishing pricing plans that force most consumers to frugally conserve their time online.

Indeed, the mobile Internet in Canada is reminiscent of Internet access in the mid-1990s, when dial-up access dominated the market and many consumers paid by the minute for their time online. Today, not only are cellphone data speeds comparatively slow, but they are shockingly expensive since cost is measured by the amount of data downloaded.

...and

The negative consequences of Canada falling behind even the African market should not be underestimated. Research in Motion has expressed frustration with Canadian pricing, predicting that carriers could sell "eight or nine times" more BlackBerries if they lowered data prices to levels found elsewhere.

Reduced sales are only part of the story. High data prices mean Canadians use the mobile Internet less than people in other countries, which Google has noted leads to lower Canadian usage of Web-based email or online mapping services from wireless devices.

Canadian carriers would do well to reshape their approach to mobile data by better servicing consumers, however, the longer-term solution lies in Industry Minister Maxime Bernier cracking open the wireless market by encouraging new entrants through a spectrum set-aside.

The prospect of a new national wireless carrier offering unlimited data – and perhaps even the red-hot iPhone – would do wonders for a once-proud market that now lags behind the rest of the world.

It's embarrassing for Canada to be so far behind all these other countries. Together with the fact that the carriers ripping WiFi support out of their phones means that Canucks are getting the shaft in both directions - higher prices, less online access, and the dumbing down of our phones. It's no wonder that Apple isn't rolling out the iPhone in Canada. Going by carrier trends in Canada, it would probably be priced at over $1000 and cost about $500 a month to stay connected.

Oh, and Industry Minister Maxime Bernier is the same minister that believes that "market forces" will eventually kill off all spam, hence the fact that Canada is one of the last industrialized (oh, the irony) nations without a single piece of legislation protecting consumers from spam and telemarketers.

[ctmagnus]

...did anyone read Michael Geist's rant in The Toronto Star last week? He was dead on.

http://www.thestar.com/article/238678

...

Along the same lines, this article (http://thetyee.ca/Mediacheck/2007/07/24/SlowCanada/) hit my Google Reader yesterday.

[Anthony Caruana]

One of the problems is that the WM platform is only part of the mobile phone puzzle. My phone of choice, at the moment, is a Nokia N95. Why? Because it supports sync with Lotus Notes out of the box, it supported on the Mac via some free iSync plug-ins provided by Nokia and it lets me read my PIM data and enter stuff easily.

Access to GMail is easy with the GMail Java app and, for me, it does a "good enough" job when looking web sites (I was able to remotely program my PVR with it last night).

When evaluating a phone you need to look at the whole package (size, shape, functionality, battery life, reliability). Your supposition that "Windows Mobile Pocket PCs and Smartphones seem to be the ultimate phone devices" is based on your personal view (which is fine as it's your editorial and you can say what you want to). However, some of the hassles you mention (sluggish performance) seem, in my experience, to be non-issues with most of the non-WM phones I've tested and written about.

[alese]

For me it's simple. WM provides the best third party software and I just can't imagine not using E-Wallet, List Pro, PI, MLO, PhatPad...
And since my device is also a decent (not great) phone, that gets the job done, the whole package is just great for me.

I just wish the prices would come down a bit and devices would have more memory, so the whole experience would be better.
Oh, and banning 200MHz OMAP CPU in newer devices would be a good move too...

[virain]

I switch from SE P900 to WM many years ago, the reason for that was a software that I use for my work, but it didn't have symbian version, only Windows CE and Palm, and Windows version was more advanced. Since then I see windows mobile platform improvements comming every year, it becomes more managable, and user friendly, new devices that comming out are very interesting, so I stay with it.

[Lex]

Sort of on topic: I'm remaining on the trailing edge of technology... I just bought a new dumbphone this week because I can't get past the fact that I'd pay $300-$600 for a device then the company can give me a refurb if it goes bad. Plus if either my PDA or cell has to go for service I still have the other to use.

[Philip Colmer]

Having just finished an evaluation of devices in preparation for a corporate-wide deployment, it seems that the number one thing they have to fix is reliability. It isn't acceptable for the phone portion of the device to stop working ever (obviously there's got to be battery power &amp; signal, but you know what I mean).

The consistent reply I was getting from the BB-lovers was that the devices just work. I know that it isn't entirely that simple - we've had BB users that have to reset their devices occasionally - but you do a Google search and there are plenty of reports about how BB devices are more stable than WM devices.

It isn't just being caused by the installation of 3rd party software either. It could be partly caused by the telco's software but there isn't much you can do about that.

So that would be my number one wish: a more stable, resiliant and reliable platform. I've got a horrible feeling that in 12 months' time when the contract is due for renewal, we might be getting more people switching from WM to BB ...

--Philip

[Anthony Caruana]

Having just finished an evaluation of devices in preparation for a corporate-wide deployment, it seems that the number one thing they have to fix is reliability. It isn't acceptable for the phone portion of the device to stop working ever (obviously there's got to be battery power &amp; signal, but you know what I mean).

The consistent reply I was getting from the BB-lovers was that the devices just work. I know that it isn't entirely that simple - we've had BB users that have to reset their devices occasionally - but you do a Google search and there are plenty of reports about how BB devices are more stable than WM devices.

It isn't just being caused by the installation of 3rd party software either. It could be partly caused by the telco's software but there isn't much you can do about that.

So that would be my number one wish: a more stable, resiliant and reliable platform. I've got a horrible feeling that in 12 months' time when the contract is due for renewal, we might be getting more people switching from WM to BB ...

--Philip

I was going to mention stability but with WM it really is dependent on the OEM and carriers. I suspect, although it's not easy to test, that WM is quite stable. However, all the other stuff that gets loaded over the base OS seems to lead to some level of performance compromise.

As a rule, I've found WM less stable and reliable than straight cell phones and BlackBerry devices.

[Snail]

For me it's really simple - everything in one box. The Treo is rock solid (for me anyway... but I'm not very demanding) - certainly it behaves better than many PPC's I've owned in the past.

[GF]

What you mentioned is exactly my situation. I could not find any solution to fix the problem. As a result, I subscribe a dataplan for my Treo and bought a stylish and light weight 3G phone.

I used a lot of different models of PPC before, I found that the voice part of the WM is the weakest. After I bought the Treo 750, I found that it is close to my dream device. BUT I found a big problem when my device syncing to the Exchange, sometimes the incoming call may go to voicemail. I know that this is not the device or OS problem, this is because of the GSM line. So I switched to 3G (Treo has 3G capability), it seems that the situation is a lot better. BUT my phone battery can only last for half day.

[Kash76]

I agree with most comments about the phone part of WM but, I cannot live without instant access to all of my contacts anymore so it's worth if for me.

As for battery life, this needs a lot of work. I will admit that I admire my BlackBerry friends going through a weekend without a charge!

[sub_tex]

I'm currently with a WM phone only because Nokia has yet to introduce a sideways slide out keyboard phone, like all the HTC devices.

I prefer WM Smartphone to the WM PPC/"Professional" edition too. It just seems much more one hand friendly and made from the ground up to be used AS A PHONE.

I would have never left the Palm camp 4 years ago had they added such small things as multitasking and a real file system. *sigh*

I think WM has a long ways to go performance-wise. It's just too darned slow. I know that some of the problems lie in the devices running slower processors, but come on, MS. Put some rules down. Put a minimum spec that actually gives a GOOD experience with the phone. Not just specs that will run it in theory, but is god awful slow (I'm looking at you, MDA).

Opening up Messaging to type a text message should be instant. 2 seconds at the longest.

My WM5 phone is more like an old desktop than a nice phone in that I always end up waiting for apps to open. Or close. Or god forbid some sitew doesn't have their mime types set up properly and Pocket IE tries to open a CAB file as text.......oof. I end up yanking the battery out just to get it working again after that. :roll:

I like the flexibility and plethora of apps available for WM, but the overall experience is lacking.

WM Smartphone edition is leaps and bounds over the PPC version though. I just wish those two teams would communicate more.

[Kash76]

Where yyou find smartphone to be better, I find that it's too restrictive. I hate not having a touch screen and being limited in what I can do with attachments and other limitations between the two. Would I recommend a smartphone to others? Absolutely! It's just that I've used the CE OS for about ten years and like WM Pro. Simply a preference.

[sub_tex]

I hate not having a touch screen and being limited in what I can do with attachments and other limitations between the two.

The touch screen is a nice addition, I'll agree. Though in 90% of my daily PHONE usage, not pda-type usage of the device, I don't think a person should ever have to leave the device buttons for any sort of navigation or interaction.

The attachments comment is new to me. What's the difference? I ended up installing FlexMail on my Dash because the default Messaging app was just too poor for me, showed too little on the screen, etc. Does the smartphone have limited attachment support?

[Kash76]

On the Moto Q I remember not being able to either save as or open directly from the message. It was something that irritated me at the time.

[quan]

picking the phone and its platform depends on what one trying to do. For me, I pick Blackberry because it gets my emails, internet, voice, data and PIM all done well.

[gt24]

I like stand alone devices. I admit I don't have a huge business use for a pocket pc however I did like the separate device idea for two reasons...

The device is always mine. It isn't linked to some cell phone plan and therefore can only be purchased with said plan which is usually overkill for my usage. Since I have a dumb phone my per month costs are lower and that certainly helps out.

Second... my Pocket PC is nice but it isn't the most stable thing in the world. Every now and again I have to soft reset it because it throws some sort of fit. However, I'm in no huge rush so I wait for the reset. My phone on the other hand MUST work. I have the phone for phone calls... not for incoming calls to bounce to voicemail, not for current calls to be lost because my device decided it is a good time to freeze, nor to have some sort of crash when dialing a call. Besides, it would feel a little odd holding up a Pocket PC sized phone to my ear (Yes, personal preference).

My phone is cheap and durable and new enough... so if something happens then I can simply get another (it hasn't had problems though). My Pocket PC has held up pretty well too but it wouldn't have been a good phone. I also like how my phone battery is nowhere effected by a long gaming session on my Pocket PC (which will have a somewhat weak battery if I play a long game on it).

[sub_tex]

my Pocket PC is nice but it isn't the most stable thing in the world. Every now and again I have to soft reset it because it throws some sort of fit. [.......] My phone on the other hand MUST work.

Exactly. WM still has a long ways to go to be solid. Once (if?) they do get it all trim and tight, it would be a nice experience for the most part though.

[eugarps]

Hi,

I'm gradually getting rid of my convergence devices. I really haven't found one that's an excellent phone and an excellent PDA both. Thus I've reverted to carrying a Motorola phone and an iPAQ hx4700. If I need to communicate away from WiFi, I either link the phon and the iPAQ or plug the phone into my Thinkpad X40 and use it as a modem.

I stuck with WM simply because I have too much invested in WM software to ditch it. iPhone has been a temptation since I'm a Mac user.

[ddwire]

I stick with the WM phone for one reason only.

I do not want to carry two devices..
I am currently using the Treo 700wx from Sprint, and it is much less reliable than the PPC6601 from Sprint I had previously.
Dan

[Don Tolson]

My Jasjar is sluggish to answer the phone more than 50% of the time, resulting in the need to call people back. My K-Jam's Send/End buttons were worn down within a few weeks, requiring more than a subtle push to answer the calls there. My iPaq Mobile Messenger frequently is chugging along too much with it's own internal nonsense that placing a call takes 5 - 10 seconds longer than it should. These are the ultimate phone devices?

Hi Jon... sorry to hear about your difficulties... maybe it's because those were some of the first 'converged' devices out???

I've had an Eten X500 for about 4 or 5 months now. It was my first 'converged' device and I was a little trepidatious regarding giving up my cell phone/PPC combo. Would the X500 perform as well as either? Well, I have to admit that my experience so far as been pretty positive. The phone is one of the most reliable and sensitive one's I've ever had -- it can even continue conversations in most elevators, and I get signal connection where many of my friends with conventional phones get 'No Service'. I love the convenience of having everything in one box, including my GPS, and the X500 has been reasonable in terms of performance, given its limited program memory.

I don't think I'll go back to separate units, now.

The phone 'pick up' delay may be due to the number of other applications running simultaneously, as I tend to run mine pretty lean and call pick up is acceptable.

The buttons thing is defiinitely a hardware manufacturer's problem. That just should not happen within the useful life of the product.

[Jon Westfall]

My Jasjar is sluggish to answer the phone more than 50% of the time, resulting in the need to call people back. My K-Jam's Send/End buttons were worn down within a few weeks, requiring more than a subtle push to answer the calls there. My iPaq Mobile Messenger frequently is chugging along too much with it's own internal nonsense that placing a call takes 5 - 10 seconds longer than it should. These are the ultimate phone devices?

Hi Jon... sorry to hear about your difficulties... maybe it's because those were some of the first 'converged' devices out???

I don't know if I'd consider them some of the first converged devices. I'd say the Jasjar was the first "modern" converged device, that offered all the perks of a regular PPC and added the phone component (And WM 5). However, the XDA was the pioneer in my opinion (and I still had the same issues with it!). If I could have 1 thing (JUST 1 THING!) it would be that as soon as I hit the green or red button, the corresponding phone action would happen. Not 1 or 2 seconds later, but instantly. I still impulsively hit the red button twice upon hanging up - one time for insurance. Picked that trait up with the original XDA! Thankfully the newest devices seem to get the message the first time!

If MS wants to compete, I'd argue they need to focus on the phone aspect even more than they have already (I know they have been - recent devices are way better phones than the older ones). But they need to take it even a step further. Make me forget I'm using a PDA phone until I need the PDA functionality. From the phone perspective, a freebie cell shouldn't outshine a $600 pocket pc!

[kzemach]

I have an HTC TyTn, but am not impressed at all. Had a Treo 600 before, and it just worked. And worked well. The TyTn, most likely via the WM issues, won't properly load TomTom, crashes about 2 times/day, has had screen problems (that's HTC's fault), the keyboard has started going bad, it freezes, doesn't sync well, etc. Small things to be sure, but it's hassle hassle hassle. The Treo 600 was none of these. My basic quote when people ask me about my phone is:

"Windows Mobile: All your information in the palm of your hand. Too bad you can't get to it."

Yeah, OK, it works. Sort of. But I don't want to be my own tech support. I will seriously consider the iPhone next.

[Jon Westfall]

But I don't want to be my own tech support.

I agree with this sentiment. I am tech support for so many other people, that I've forgotten that when it comes to my own electronics, I shouldn't have to troubleshoot them - they should just work, and when they don't, I should be able to find resources quickly to fix them. A great example is the Memory error I received like crazy on my Treo 750, K-Jam, and JasJar. Eventually I found that if you moved too many messages from inbox to another folder, then synced, the sync would fail. I learned (through many hard months of wondering "Why does it keep saying "Show Details" and not syncing!") that I could either close messaging through the Memory tab, or just move my messages in batches (less than 10 at a time) to alleviate the problem. For people like me, who are anal about having an empty inbox (Inbox to me means "things I haven't read yet", so whenever I am done checking email, my inbox is empty), are few and far between. This means no one else had posted on this problem, and Microsoft offered very cryptic responses when I looked up the error.

Point is, it took me months to fix a problem that I should have not had in the first place, and at the least, should have had more support online than I found. Then again, perhaps I just had some really odd message - the kind someone via Google will have and find this post one day - to their delight!

[rookcnu]

I just want to carry one converged device. Right now I carry the BlackBerry 7520 and the Cingular 8125.

Love the Cingular 8125 for everything, but my Blackberry has Nextel Direct Connect, which is how I communicate with people at work. If they would just come out with a WM5/6 device that had the Nextel Direct Connect feature, I could get rid of one.

I also like the thumboard on the Blackberry face more than the slide out QWERTY in the 8125.

[melsam [MS]]

Thanks Jon for starting this topic, and thanks to everyone for responding. I just wanted to let readers know that people from the Windows Mobile team are reading this thread. We take this feedback very seriously and it will help us make significant improvements in upcoming AKUs and new releases of Windows Mobile. Please keep this discussion going - we are listening.

-Mel Sampat
Program Manager (Windows Mobile shell team)

[Kash76]

Mel,
Thanks for stopping in! Glad to hear that you and the team are keeping your ears to the users :) Now I have more to add!

As a 700wx user coming from multiple devices which always included a dumb phone and a Palm or WM device which included - Philips Neno, Compaq Aero, Palm V, Palm Vx, Handspring Color?, multiple variations of iPAQ's and a Dell x50v. I got tired of picking and choosing which 300 contacts I could put on my dumb phone so I got a Treo 650 after playing with the 600 for a while. I loved the form factor but wanted badly a WM OS on the device. I finally got that when Sprint released the 700wx.

As I mentioned earlier, the rich software is a keeper, outlook integration, etc. I'm now on Exchange 2007 and am drooling at the thought of the next WM Treo with WM6. I am most excited about the HTML email!!

With the release of the iPhone, it has some cool features but it can't replace what I have now unless I totally converted away from Exchange. Again, as I previously said there just isn't anything as slick as Exchange/WM together. I'm always listening to my Apple buddies complain about integration with other solutions.

On the enterprise side, I hope to see more enterprise management tools. It's great that the remote wipe is there now along with security enforcement. We need to see patch deployment. When the DST patch was released it was a nightmare on the WM and Palm side to patch the devices in comparison to the RIM devices. I know that Goodlink addresses some of that but Good has it's own limitations and costs.

I have a lot of third party software on my 700wx and don't really have stability problems. Maybe it's just because I had my 650 Palm OS based device soft resetting on me so often that I don't care that I reset about once a week on my WM device!?

So, first of all keep up with the good work!! Secondly, keep working on better enterprise management features.

[sub_tex]

If MS wants to compete, I'd argue they need to focus on the phone aspect even more than they have already [...] Make me forget I'm using a PDA phone until I need the PDA functionality.

Man did you hit it on the head.

It's obvious that the phone portions of WM were added on to fit into the original PPC style use. Just look at the input options. That tiny stylus-only keyboard, the handwriting recognition, block recognizer....all fine for stylus use, but useless for one-handed phone use.

On my MDA, the "Phone Pad" HTC app is really the only input method that makes any sense when you look at it from a one-handed phone user perspective. It offers decent finger-sized buttons and an easy way to switch between numbers, letters or T9 predictive text.

SPB Mobile Shell is a must-have app in my opinion. It's the quickest way to launch an app one-handed that I've seen (not counting those multi-button-press type apps people have written), and it's super user-friendly.

[WyattEarp]

I carry at least 2 of my 3 devices with me most of the time in any combination depening on what I might be doing that day; an hx4700, an iPod and a Dash. I was looking forward to a converged device but have yet to come across one that meets my needs or expectataions which are pretty high. My hx4700 is my work horse which has spoiled me and would love to see a true successor to it but have long given up. The Dash is great for texting but to me that's about it. The smartphone idea is nice but I need to edit/create documents/spreadsheets on the go and can't do so on such a small device especially when it doesn't even support document creation without a template. Why? The iPod is my music/podcast workhorse. I know what some will say... you can do that on a WM device and while that may be true it's memory capacity is to limited for the amount of media I listen to and I rip my CDs at high bit rates not to mention battery life on WM devices is just not up to par. So soon I'll be switching to an iPhone mainly for real web browsing and email. My 4700 is going no where as I have seen nothing out there to replace it with.
So to MS since you say your listening which is good and I thank you for that. 1. Update the OS for a better end-user experience that is very lacking.
2. Update the requirements you give out to manufactures. There is no reason in this day and age that a device with a "powerful" OS should be put into a device with 64MB RAM/128MB ROM (1/3 of which get taken up by the OS and bult-in software) and a 200 or 300 MHz processors. iPhone for example 1GB RAM/8MB ROM and a 620MHz processor first time out the gate. Come on now.
3. Where are the WM devices for the North American market which is my biggest aggrevation. I see lots a devices for Europe, Asia, etc but none for the US that even comes close to what they get on the other side of the water.
I could go on but I'll stop here, I love my toys and I buy fwhat fits my needs and I tell associates, friends and family to do the same so I'm not tied to WM but I do own a lot of software for my 4700 and it would be ashame if I have to give it all up to migrate to migrate to something else due to a lack of real progress and innovation like I did with Palm so many moons ago.

[ppcinfo]

For quite a while, I used two separate devices (cell phone and Dell Axim Pocket PC), and seemed very happy with my setup. Just a few months ago, I was able to get a Moto-Q Smartphone from the company I work for, and I absolutely love it. Specifically, I love the ability to check and sync my email with my company's MS Exchange Server. Also, using the Microsoft Live Search freeware is fantastic for looking up the nearest Starbucks or getting driving directions. I didn't think I'd like carrying around a larger phone or viewing internet data on such a small screen, but that hasn't been a problem for me.

So, I now leave my Dell Axim Pocket PC at home when I go on business trips (the only reason I would bring it, would be to watch mpg movies on a larger screen). My wonderful Smartphone seems to handle my particular needs as a phone and PDA device.

One thing to mention, I recently dropped my Moto-Q and the glass overlay screen cracked. :( Although the device still works fine, it has an annoying crack diagonally across the screen. I was really bummed out since I can't get the phone replaced, and I was thinking that I would have to go back to a normal cell phone and carry my Dell Axim around again. That really bummed me out, as I realized how dependent I was on the features of the Smartphone. Fortunately, I discovered from a search of the internet that I can buy a replacement glass cover for $4.99 US and can easily replace it. I've since ordered the glass screen replacement, and am waiting for it's arrival to mend my cracked Moto-Q!

ppcinfo

[Don Tolson]

]Thanks Jon for starting this topic, and thanks to everyone for responding. I just wanted to let readers know that people from the Windows Mobile team are reading this thread. We take this feedback very seriously and it will help us make significant improvements in upcoming AKUs and new releases of Windows Mobile. Please keep this discussion going - we are listening.

-Mel Sampat
Program Manager (Windows Mobile shell team)

Well, as long as I have your ear, I was wondering why we don't have a fully functioning Call Display on our phones? I subscibe to the service from Rogers AT&amp;T here in Canada on my Moto Razr, but on my X500, I can only see the name if they are listed in my Contacts db. Isn't there some way we can select one or the other,or better yet, dEtect the CD data coming froM the network and dEcide which to display?

[martin_ayton]

I have to have a converged device - I just can't handle juggling lots of bits of kit and associated chargers. One device / one charger and I've got a pretty good chance of having them when and where I need them. On the whole, I'm OK with my Hermes (in the guise of a T-Mo MDA Vario 2), but there are some things about it and previous WM devices I have had which could do with improving (in no particular order):

- Bluetooth. The current implementation stinks. If I ever have to hard reset (twice in the year I have owned this device, which is *way* too often) I can guarantee a fight to get the thing re-paired to my GPS brick. It has never yet taken me less than 30 minutes. It isn't the brick's fault - it pairs instantly with any other device. And A2DP :roll: oh, brother. If that profile is present on a device, I ought to be able to use it to stream stereo audio to any A2DP enabled receiver. Even with all the registry hacks (which should never be needed) I've just given up with this.

- Phone. I second everything which has been said above. The 'phone just needs to work better. When I press the green key to answer a call I manage to pick it up 90% of the time. If I ever make the mistake of hitting the 'answer' softkey the call is instantly disconnected or sent to voicemail. Huh?! Oh, and if I move into or out of a 3G zone with a voice call in progress, the call will be dropped. Every time. The standard of performance of a 'freebie' dumbphone should be the minimum level of performance of a PPC phone not the gold standard to which we all aspire.

- Updates and patches. Look, I understand that carriers need / want to customise their phones, but to allow that to prevent OS fixes and patches from being rolled out to consumers is broken. And MS gets the blame for carrier behaviour, so there is no incentive on the carriers' part to fix this. There must be a way to separate carrier customisations from the 'core' OS and allow that core to be fixed and updated at MS's schedule. WM phones have the MS logo all over them, and that has to give MS the right to protect their brand by supporting the users of that brand. There are AKU updates issued for the Hermes which have never been released by the carriers. T-Mo have been promising an imminent release of a WM6 ROM upgrade for my Hermes for over a month now. It still isn't there.

- ActiveSync. I won't bore everyone by rehashing all the well known and legitimate gripes about this barely adequate sync solution. However, I do have a question for the MS team responsible for it: Why, if I transfer files from my PC to my micro-SD card, is it 5-10 times quicker to take the card out of the PPC, and stick it into a card reader, than to transfer the files via ActiveSync? Both of them use the same USB connection.

To answer Jon's original question, I use this because it is the best compromise which meets all my needs. But it isn't a good compromise, and if anything else comes along which does the job better, I'll be gone. In a second. MS has managed to build precisely no brand loyalty in this consumer :(

[virain]

1. Update the OS for a better end-user experience that is very lacking.
2. Update the requirements you give out to manufactures. There is no reason in this day and age that a device with a "powerful" OS should be put into a device with 64MB RAM/128MB ROM (1/3 of which get taken up by the OS and bult-in software) and a 200 or 300 MHz processors. iPhone for example 1GB RAM/8MB ROM and a 620MHz processor first time out the gate. Come on now.
3. Where are the WM devices for the North American market which is my biggest aggrevation. I see lots a devices for Europe, Asia, etc but none for the US that even comes close to what they get on the other side of the water.[/list]
I could go on but I'll stop here, I love my toys and I buy fwhat fits my needs and I tell associates, friends and family to do the same so I'm not tied to WM but I do own a lot of software for my 4700 and it would be ashame if I have to give it all up to migrate to migrate to something else due to a lack of real progress and innovation like I did with Palm so many moons ago.

I can't agree more. The most problems described in this topic are due to underpowered devices. Manufacturers, trying to increase their profits, give you just enough in hardware, so Windows could run. Same goes for the phone function. WM has pretty good touch screen dail pad, you can use it without stylus, but hardware to back up it usualy from the lowest quality side. It works well for manufacturers, as they can put all the blame on operating system. I am not saying that WM is perfect, but comming form Sony Ericsson, I can tell you that Symbian inerface is very similiar to WM PPC and not without bugs, it freezes and crushes as well. iPhone, on the other hand I hope will force manufacturers to raise their hardware quality levels and produce competitive devices. Another thing that I admire in iPhone, is it's interface, it is all TOUCH SCREEN! than less mechanical parts, s.a. buttons, keyboards, scroll wheels, than less opportunities for device to break, It's much easier to fix software malfunction than a broken button. Also it makes device lighter, smaller, more manegable. It gives more room for touch screen keyboard, so you can use it without taking out a stylus, and with one hand and if Microsoft would make a scroll not just a small line at the right side and a buttom of a screen, but so you could do it with your thumb, like the iPhone, or HTC Touch, there wouldn't be a need for scroll wheel. and device could be used with one hand without any complications. That's probably what I would like to see in WM interface the most.

[Paquette]

I got tired of picking and choosing which 300 contacts I could put on my dumb phone so I got a Treo 650 after playing with the 600 for a while. I loved the form factor but wanted badly a WM OS on the device.

Hi

The limitations regarding number of contacts unfortunately also apply to WM devices.

I am working for a pharmaceutical company and we currently use a couple of different devices (from dumb phones to smartphones to pocket pc phone editions and BBs).

I used to have a Blackberry device but switched to a HTC TyTN because I needed some third-party apps that were (at least at that time) only available for WM.

I like the device but what drives me (and our IT department) nuts is the fact that with WM the number of contacts is also limited. We have a pretty large database (approx. 5,000 contacts) and while it was a snap to sync them with BB, there seems to be no way to achieve that with WM5. If one tries, it just stalls the device presumably because of lack of internal memory due to the way the internal database is organized.

Moreover, as ActiveSync is not able to sync contacts from public folders, one has to manually copy&amp;past contacts from the company's contact folder to the personal folder. Very annoying.

BB allows to sync with public and personal folders and combines them on the device. That's how it should be.

In short: Our IT department is about to ban WM devices and make it mandatory to use BB devices in order to reduce need for support.

Best

Paquette

[rookcnu]

Why can't we save contacts to a storage card? Why does it HAVE to be main memory?

Doug

[Kash76]

I like the device but what drives me (and our IT department) nuts is the fact that with WM the number of contacts is also limited. We have a pretty large database (approx. 5,000 contacts) and while it was a snap to sync them with BB, there seems to be no way to achieve that with WM5.

Shouldn't you be using the GAL at that point or are these contacts all outside of the company?

***really long quote trimmed by mod JD***

[Kash76]

Why can't we save contacts to a storage card? Why does it HAVE to be main memory?

Doug

Just a guess but this probably has to do with performance. Also, they cannot assume that the card is in all the time.

[Bruce Jackson]

My Jasjar is sluggish to answer the phone more than 50% of the time, resulting in the need to call people back.

Hi,

Palm have some good tips to help with speeding up incoming calls!
Removing all contacts on my SIM card had a noticable effect

http://kb.palm.com/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBCGI.EXE?New,Kb=PalmSupportKB,ts=Palm_External2001,Case=obj(43528)

lots of luck ;-)
Bruce

[sto-helit.de]

First, BTT:
Well, mostly it's the "all in one" thingy. No matter what I need, there's usually a more or less working app available (and better a bad solution than often none at all for non-smartphones). Esp. for navigation there are some quite good solutions.

Then, there's the handling. As Apple annouces so loud for it's iPhone of course also is true for a PDA: It's just better to locate fitting elements on a touchscreen than having to fiddle with an interface that just knows the few buttons and one or two menus. Just take a simple calculator: Isn't it a PITA to find out where that % function is hidden on a simple phone? And its far worse with something as complex as appointments or contacts.
For input I still prefer the default screen keyboard (big style), even though I've got real T9 on my P525 - which is handy e.g. for writing while going.

I also like the customization possibilities. Today plugins, WisBar, button reassignments, themes, ...

For me, an additional reason is that I can quite simply add features I'm missing. If you know VC++ for Windows, it's quite easy to write apps for WindowsMobile. While on the other hand, many other developer tools for other systems are something for people who think in assembler and do their taxes in hex code... ;)

Also, I don't use the cell phone part that much. It's mostly to be available if needed, I usually don't have more than 10-20 talk time a month (including incoming calls). SMS are used more often, esp. for eMail notifications, but for them it doesn't matter if it takes a second longer util they appear...

But I've got to admit there are several small things that could need improvement. Though I don't think the general speed is that bad, with 400MHz you can work really good, and WM6 is said to improve a lot there.
I just don't get why MS didn't make it in more than 5 years (everything before PPC2002 is freak stuff for developers imho) to implement so simple things like a real close button (why not "minimize" and "close", an option, or a popup menu if they don't want to drop their "smart minimize" completely?) or a standby mode that doesn't cause troubles by continuing apps before the cards are accessible?
And the phone part indeed is far too obviously an add-on to the PDA system. The Smartphone version is far better in this regard. I hope future versions of WM will bring some improvements there, since MS announced they want to combine Smartphone and PPC (PE) versions of Windows Mobile.

[gt24]

Yay, people are listening to the thread! Thus, a whiny request and a normal request...

Normal request :: I use my current cell phone as an alarm clock in a pinch. It does the job well since it can change audio profiles at a set time. Thus, my phone can have silenced audio and vibrate until 7 AM... and then switch to normal ring mode with vibrate at that time. Timed audio profiles are nice and would be missed. In addition, the profiles allowed you to set different ring tones or pretty much anything about the phone's sounds. Also, when the alarm goes off I have a rather loud beeping to wake me up as well as vibrate.

I have a Palm which I don't use much... but it is very good at waking me up too. It has loud alarms that are easily set. All in all... nice work!

Windows Mobile on the other hand (2003 SE) has really bad alarms. At my default volume (1 click below loudest)... it isn't loud. At loudest... I suppose it is ok. I have a loud awake alarm on my Windows mobile device because... I copied it from the Palm using the built in microphone on the Windows Mobile device!! It wouldn't be all that bad to include a few more default sounds... just like a phone has default ring tones a Windows Mobile device (even non phone devices) should have default sounds to cover a wide variety of uses (without upsetting the ring tone market either).

Whiny request :: Nokia makes cell phones... but they are transitioning to handhelds with the Nokia n800. Considering the low amount of Windows Mobile 5 non phone devices... and NO Windows Mobile 6 stand alone devices... as well as the fact that most of the available devices were not released in this nation (the United States), I am now considering other options. I liked having a little organizer by my side that was relatively quick and modified to suit my purposes... but I suppose times change.

Why can't a manufacturer make a "cell phone backpack" that fits on the back of a PDA and provides the necessary cellular radio? It would solve both problems I would think and the backpack (if necessary) could authenticate to the device in some way (for vendor lock in... I know it will be requested). However, if the end vendor can be convinced to switch to cell backpacks for Windows Mobile devices... then perhaps it could solve two problems at once...

Somehow, I don't think this will be done though...

[kzemach]

Ahh, if someone who can actually DO something is listening...

I'll note two usability issues: one which would allude to no one at Microsoft actually _uses_ the thing, and one which is, IMO, pretty serious.

Phone: HTC Tytn
OS: WM5

1.
a) Go to Today screen. Lower left hand corner is "Calendar," right hand corner is contact. Thus, to reach contacts from the today screen, you press the right hand button that corresponds to the contacts softkey.
b) Go to phone screen. Menu is on the right, and Contacts has now moved to the left, so if you thought you could get used to getting to contacts with one of the hard buttons, think again... it's moved. Yes, this is very very minor, but it's the type of usability/user interface issue that shows that someone is not looking at the system as a holistic device.

2. This is the serious one. There is no way to search the contacts (on the phone) for ANYTHING in the notes section. So if I'm on the road with my phone, and I need to call "that guy, what's his name... um, the guy that I met in Chicago at the widget meeting..." There is no way I can type in "widget" and get a list of every and anyone I know who deals in widgets. This is the real basis for my earlier comment quote of: WM: All the information in the palm of your hand. You just can't get to it." How crazy is it to have notes on people, categorizing them, but can't access that info directly on the road? What if I want a quick list of all my mountain bike friends: I want to be able to search for "bike" and have it pull up everyone. Same for skiing. Climbing. Widgets. That person I met in Ria Vista. Etc. The whole darn point of having digital information in droves is to be able to search it and sort it, right???? PalmOS has been able to do that since day one, and it's a capability that I used a lot.

3. Syncing business contacts from outlook. I started using business contacts in outlook, and then MS released a "business contacts sync conduit." Only it didn't work. I posted that in the help section, and two other people noted on the same thread that it didn't work. No help, no one's solved it. They're my damn business contacts: that MS can't sync them properly for multiple people is pathetic.

OK, that was three things, but I got on a roll. I'll stop now, and go lower my blood pressure. I will note one more quote, this time Steve Jobs on why they did the iPhone. I believe it went like this: "People hate their cellphones." Yep. True. Sure, I want it all, but for $700, I should get it all.

[karen]

I second (3rd? 100th?) the reliability issue.

One of the biggest reliability issues I have isn't directly related to the OS -- it's the fact that every damn one of these devices I've owned has some stupid, proprietary power connector, headphone connector or sync cable.

What RIM and others have done by using a standard USB cable is a blessing.

I travel weekly and I can't tell you how many times one of these stupid proprietary connections has been lost, left behind, or 99 times out of a 100, broken.

So quick, you're standing in the airport in Omaha, on your way to Indy, and your charge cable is broken. What do you do if you have a WM device? Head to one of the few remaining payphones in the world. Then, in Indy, if you are lucky enough to find a Verizon or AT&amp;T store (your own provider is probably required) to see if they keep a charger in stock. 99 times out of a hundred, they do not. They will even tell you that you might not even get a chance to order one because the phone is 6 months old and they didn't sell well, so they can't even order a new charger. You could try ebay, but you won't see a new charger in your hand for weeks, and it will be a cheap knockoff that will break after 3 days.

What do you do if you have a BlackBerry? Maybe check out the snack counter that also sells gum and batteries to see if they have headphones and a simple USB cable (which they just might). If not, don't panic -- just head to the lounge, have a drink, read the newspaper, because you are confident you'll find a replacement in Indy. Once you land in Indy, you pop into a WalMart, a Radio Shack, or a QuickEMart where these USB things are common, where you can also pick up a 3 dollar head phone, if needed. Heck, I might just skip the shopping trip and ask my client if they have a spare USB cable I can borrow during the day to charge my device. No big deal, either, because it will just work.

MSFT was able to exert some pressures on hardware manufacturers and carriers on what the minimum HW standards were. I know that there is huge, huge profit in providing proprietary accessories to cell phones, but this just has to stop and I only see it stopping with a true standard for these things.

I have a wonderful device, but I can't even buy a charge or battery for it at any of the carrier stores, Fry's, or Radio Shack. It is not a cell phone then, it is a geeky gadget like a kit car or a home built radio.

This sort of stuff frustrates the heck out of me - it's stupid. When I evaluate mobile technologies for clients (we are a MS partner), it's something I have to tell clients about, then add huge additional costs to technology evaluations because it reflects real world TCO of these devices -- purchasing mulitple expensive chargers and headphones up front, then supplying numerous repair parts during the life of the device.

[Kash76]

One of the biggest reliability issues I have isn't directly related to the OS -- it's the fact that every damn one of these devices I've owned has some stupid, proprietary power connector, headphone connector or sync cable.

I think that you need to remember that multiple companies manufacture WM devices vs RIM creating and controlling every BB. These companies also make nice money off of "their" accessories. I'm not saying it's right but it would be difficult for MS to say, "OK everyone, you MUST all use USB connections for charging". Most are going that way (Moto, HTC and you *may* see Palm do the same with their WM devices).

[karen]

I think that you need to remember that multiple companies manufacture WM devices vs RIM creating and controlling every BB. These companies also make nice money off of "their" accessories. I'm not saying it's right but it would be difficult for MS to say, "OK everyone, you MUST all use USB connections for charging". Most are going that way (Moto, HTC and you *may* see Palm do the same with their WM devices).

Yes, I know that. But MSFT does give them requirements for certain aspects of the HW in order to use the OS and I believe that MSFT is losing market share due to the perception that WM devices are some how early, experimental, tempermental, fragile devices.

In the past, MSFT set standards for screen aspect ratios, memory configurations, the X close but not closed thing for software, etc. MSFT has a lot of influence on these things. They may not control them, but they have influence.

In fact, your point that RIM has total control over the HW aspects support my point, as they could easily then have taken a Sony or Apple approach and defined their own, proprietary, expensive, fragile, obsolete accessory connections...but they, somehow, manage to make a profit without doing that.

BBs just work...the vast majority of users want devices that just work, that aren't overly cumbersome to work with, that don't require a bunch of alien dongles, adaptors, and doo-dads. The recent review of a device (I can't remember which one) that requires a 3 inch adaptor that looks as big as the device just to plug in headphones is the most laughable engineering feat of geekiness I've ever seen. They're headphones, for gawd's sake. They should be replaceable and easy to use, and not require any sort of doo-hickey to work. I can't take that design to my CIO...he'd kick me out of the building.

[Phoneboy101]

I often ask myself why I'm still using a WM phone. It's usually so AGRIVATING!

A fully integrated smart phone has become a necessity to me, and I love the side slide keyboards on many HTC models. I can't get over the number of bugs that make the phone experience so terrible, and the fact that with newer releases, things seem to get worse.

This is based on using the MDA, and currently the Wing. The overall phone experience is terrible on both because of; delay with send end buttons, multiple soft resets required daily, missed calls due to slow response of inputs (sometimes my phone is so slow, it can't even display the caller ID until the after phone has stopped ringing!)

Things only seem to have gotten worse with WM6. It needs even more frequent resets. When it's plugged in to active sync, it become so slow that it's useless, with response times of over a minute - even the phone functionality.

I have serious questions about if the manufacturers or programmers of these devices ever tried actually using one as their phone. Maybe the corporate culture is similar to when I worked for a wireless carrier. We'd point out problems for end users based on our own usage of the products, only to be dismissed by middle management because they only cared what "real paying customers" were saying.

I wish they would either require better specs, or somehow configure the devices to dedicate enough resources to the phone functionality to make it operate smoothly regardless of how jammed up the PDA side is.

I am very close to trying Blackberry, or perhaps one of Nokia's latest offerings.

[Phoneboy101]

I have to back up what kzemach said. I didn't even know that search doesn't search contact notes! No wonder I can't find data. And why in PPC does a simple search take minutes, when in a Palm with the same amount of PIM data it takes seconds?

Speaking of other niggles in WM6, why can't I filter my tasks not to display items with start dates after today? I don't want to see tasks that are to be started in the future. Every previous version of WM/PPC did this, why did they screw it up on WM6?

[PROlenick]

I'm still locked into an XDA II - specifically an Audiovox/Verizon XV-6600 - because I refuse to use a device with a screen smaller than the original PPC screen size. (I used to plug my old hp PPC into my StarTrek - I mean StarTac.) Any screen smaller guarantees that I have to use the stylus for everything, while this size lets me use a fingernail most of the time.

I've recently overcome many phone instability problems by reinstalling all my apps after Verizon's recent, mandatory ROM flash to keep using EVDO . I'd used SD backups to ride my twice-a-year device replacements - the phone is nice but not sturdy. Problem with using backups to migrate is that the support DLLs and other routines are constantly being tweaked by MS, and mixing and matching different generations is a recipe for freezups.

I do wish that listening to streaming radio on my headset didn't drain even an extended-life battery in an hour or two - it's the only way to walk around listening to Air America and my favorite jazz station, WBGO New Jersey, up here in Boston.

So, I'm buying refurbed XV-6600s from Tessie's Toys until Verizon gets back on the bus with large screens.

PS You can search the notes fields if you use Pocket Informant - it does much more with the standard Pocket Outlook data than MS bothers with.

PPS A few nights ago I was using Thunderhawk (Bitstream's PPC browser that mostly duplicates the desktop experience) when I was asked by someone who was standing nearby: Is that an iPhone?

Nope, its a discontinued phone.

[mightymission]

Have had a PPCPE since they debuted with T-Mobile in 2002.
IE Mobile has only been upgraded once in over 5 years. Somethings gotta give because other browsers give a better experience and why should customers have to intstall when M$ needs to upgrade IE Mobile.

Secondly, fix the notes app so that it doesn't close after every change you make in other words - so it's a actual usable app.
Thirdly, straighten out the sync process so that contacts aren't duplicated every time you sync.
Fourth, you should be able to 'delete all' in SMS in Win Mobile 6.0 why isn't there a option for that?

[Paquette]

Shouldn't you be using the GAL at that point or are these contacts all outside of the company?

Hi Kash76

Thank you for hinting at GAL (Global Access List). Unfortunately, the mentioned 5,000+ contacts are all external ones.

I know that MS has released a WM2003 plugin which enables GAL access through pocket outlook. However, even for our internal contacts, we're curently not using that solution, mainly because the GAL FAQ says: "does not work outside your carrier's wireless network". This would be a show stopper as our employees are traveling quite often. Haven't tried it, though.

Any experiences with GAL access while roaming?

Sorry for slightly being off-topic - but I think that for a business WM phone it should be possible to easily access one's contacts.

Best

Paquette

[Richard76]

Stability. Reliability. The two main reasons I switched over to the "Dark Side" (BB) for my day-to-day device. However, I still carry my old PDA2k in my briefcase for two reasons. First, because I carry all my company information (brochures, manuals, parts lists, etc.) in PDF format and second, I still use the built-in WiFi once in a while.

[ddwire]

After reading through this thread, I come away with two things. #1 I am glad some one at Microsoft is reading this. #2 I am starting to wonder why I put up with all the crap and don't just go back to plain phone that works.

I have a Sprint Treo 700wx that has more power than my 10 year old Pentium 166 computer but is virtually usless do to the tiny poor 240x240 resolution screen.
I don't want a slew of features in my phone or pda if they don't work or to tedious to use. I give my Treo a 5 out of 10 for overall reliability and stability.

My main wants are #1 it to work and I want to be able to work with word, excel, adobe files with out squinting. "larger higher res. screen"!!!

[Mikey]

I have never taken the time to register on PocketPCThoughts . I read it everyday. I have read it daily ever since I got serious about Pocket PC's with the iPAQ 1910. I agree with almost every post in this thread except the ones that seem to be written by someone that works for Microsoft or the ones that seem to be giving unworthy praise.

I totally agree with the numerous quotes re:
1) a $300+ WM phone should work at least as good as the free ones they give out at Cingular.
2) Microsoft should require Manufacturers eliminate the slow processors &amp; low memory as this makes the WM phones a joke to use in business, due to all the locking up &amp; delays in button response mentioned in previous posts.

My Blackberry Pearl is an awesome phone &amp; email device, but it is not as good with the PIM. Because I have been unable to depend on email on the WM phones as well as all the quirkiness of the phone part of WM phones, I am forced to carry both the Pearl with the Dell Axim x50v.

Another thing that bugs me is WM6 still does not support 320x320 screens. Why is this still a problem? Palm has had it for several years.

LAST, I also COMPLETELY agree with the posts that Apple may actually save Microsoft WM from itself. I own several iPODS. When Palm pulled out of developing its own platform, I knew that Microsoft would relax, as it has the past few years. With the introduction of the superior iPHONE, Microsoft may finally make some serious needed changes.

I did not write all the issues I have with Microsoft. Also, I do not believe that Microsoft is really reading these posts. If they cared, then changes would not be necessary, as they've been needed for quite some time, yet have been left untouched. I've written complaints like these directly to Microsoft in years past &amp; gotten no response. I only hope for the consumer's sake, that the operating system I switched to years ago makes significant changes to overcome extinction.

[dsincic]

Convergence is the reason for not selling my iPAQ 6915 on ebay. Having a bad phone, a weak computing environment and a decent navigation system all in one device is a comfortable solution. If I imagine a different mobility platform, I'd have a small tablet (size of a Motion LS800) with solid state hard disk, instant power on, integrated GPS and docked "dumb" phone that can be used alone or as a "connection port" of the computer.

[Kash76]

Thank you for hinting at GAL (Global Access List). Unfortunately, the mentioned 5,000+ contacts are all external ones.

Hmm, that stinks.

I've used GAL and data in general when data roaming on my sprint Treo.

***really long quote trimmed by mod JD***

[martin_ayton]

...the GAL FAQ says: "does not work outside your carrier's wireless network". This would be a show stopper as our employees are travelling quite often. ...

I must admit I don't get that. The connection is via the internet, so as long as your roaming deal allows data connections and unrestricted internet access (i.e. you don't suddenly step into a walled garden the moment you roam) there shouldn't be a problem here.

I'm still trying to get my IT department to find the time to enable Exchange ActiveSync (it's all there - they just haven't got around to pushing the buttons) - but I'm based in the UK and OWA works right across Europe and the US for me, roaming to several different providers in the process. I don't see why GAL wouldn't work for you on the same basis.

[Jon Westfall]

]
a) Go to Today screen. Lower left hand corner is "Calendar," right hand corner is contact. Thus, to reach contacts from the today screen, you press the right hand button that corresponds to the contacts softkey.
b) Go to phone screen. Menu is on the right, and Contacts has now moved to the left, so if you thought you could get used to getting to contacts with one of the hard buttons, think again... it's moved. Yes, this is very very minor, but it's the type of usability/user interface issue that shows that someone is not looking at the system as a holistic device.

FWIW, the options on the today screen can be modified through a variety of third-party tools. This would let you have contacts in the same position in both screens. Developers know that the right soft-key is always supposed to be for menus and the left for the most often-used task (Hence the change from "new" to "delete" in WM 6's messaging app). I do agree, however, that this isn't the most inuitive setup, and that in future WM versions, softkey setup should be built into the OS, not done through third-party tools.

Now on to other various thoughts from the posts in the last few days....

As for the issue of 5,000 contacts not sync'ing properly, I would argue that the WM architecture is simply not designed for this. No one personally knows 5,000 people, and the database you speak of is probably a mix of suppliers, contractors, clients, etc. If your IT department wanted to deploy WM, I'd suggest that they create a custom database app that would tie not only contact information but also CRM data into the record. The database could be cached on the device (for offline use) and then updated periodically.

However this requires substantial investment in WM, something that your IT department appears unable to justify. So in the end, BB is probably a better fit for now, until there is significant reason to justify a WM initiative. I think that this example, more than any other, highlights the fact that Windows Mobile will never be everything everyone wants - other solutions will always fit the bill better for one reason or another. However, hopefully some of the comments in this thread will make it through and let it become more of a one-size-fits-all model than it already is.

Lastly, I echo the same sentiment regarding PIE only being updated once in five years. By now, we should have the ability to browse in a similar way as Safari on the iPhone.

[virain]

]
a) Go to Today screen. Lower left hand corner is "Calendar," right hand corner is contact. Thus, to reach contacts from the today screen, you press the right hand button that corresponds to the contacts softkey.
b) Go to phone screen. Menu is on the right, and Contacts has now moved to the left, so if you thought you could get used to getting to contacts with one of the hard buttons, think again... it's moved. Yes, this is very very minor, but it's the type of usability/user interface issue that shows that someone is not looking at the system as a holistic device.

I do see a point in this button setup. Let's say you are holding a phone in one hand. As you've decided to make a phone call, you would press a soft phone button with your thumb in the lower left corner of a screen. after phone application is opened, next logical step is eithet to dail a number using number keys, or call contacts which is right there under the same thumb, so you don't have to wonder all over your screen for a contact button. Same goes if you use stylus. But of course you have to be right handed to use it with comfort, so to be able to assign place for a soft button would be a nice option, to make comfortable not only "righties"

[hesynergy]

PS You can search the notes fields if you use Pocket Informant - it does much more with the standard Pocket Outlook data than MS bothers with.
.

yeah...search time to find text in note field of 1175 contacts : 4Min 27secs...

Palm OS under 10 secs...WTF!!!!!

anyone with any savy in database design KNOWS that you design a database for the RESULTS...not the info..what you want OUT of the database determines what what fields, relationships, and indicies you create. How could Microsoft and this Pocket informant company not now that????

I am totally disgusted with the lack of RESULTS I've recieved by doing text searches in the WM arena...can't SOMEONE design an indexed product?????


grrrrrrrrrrr....

Chas