Shopping for satellite internet

[Joelacrane]

Hey all, we live in the middle of nowhere. Right now, my dial-up internet is conected at...26.4kbps, and that is WAY faster than usual. I usually connect at 19kbps.

I'm a senior in H/S, allllmost graduated. Dad needs a high-speed connection here at home for work. They might even pay for it. They have T1, so when he comes home and tries to use the internet, he usually just sits there clicking the same link over and over and over, because he doesn't realize that you have to actually wait for the next page to pop up. I always have to remind him that he has to wait about 5 minutes for each page to load!!

Anyways, we need satellite. I've got about 6 computers here at home with 3-4 users. If the latency is low enough, I'll probably buy myself an Xbox 360 this summer and play a little Xbox Live!, as well as Counter-Strike: Source, Starcraft, and Starcraft II on the computers.

So who here has satellite? Who are you with? What do you think?

[ADBrown]

I've had satellite internet for five years. My first piece of advice: if you can get anything else at all, any prayer of DSL, any kind of high-speed wireless from a WISP or from a cellular carrier, run the hell away from satellite right now. In some ways, even Cingular's EDGE service preferable to satellite. That said, there are some upsides, like higher burst speeds. More on this later.

Second piece of advice: forget any kind of online gaming. A good ping for a satellite system is 600 milliseconds, and a bad one is 1200. The only thing I've ever heard of anybody being able to play over satellite is World of Warcraft.

Choose your provider carefully. They all have limits on how much you can use the service. My provider, HughesNet (Formerly DirecWay, formerly DirecPC) is among the worst--you're allowed 200 MB per day on the basic consumer plan, a restriction so low many people are having to turn off automatic updates. They also have the worst customer service, reliability, quality of service, and overall corporate attitude. The only reason I'm still with them is because I have a prayer of getting DSL, and I don't want to invest in another satellite service and contract.

Right now, the best download limits are on WildBlue, but they have some network issues which result in average ping times running 1100 ms, which seriously screws up a lot of real-time protocols. However, on their highest tier of service, you can download 16 GB per month, which works out to a little more than 500 MB per day, plenty for basic use plus updates. Their bottom tier, which is 512 Kbits per second, allows you 7.5 GB per month, or roughly 250 MB per day.

There's also SkyFX, which is supposed to be pretty reliable, but has VERY restrictive download caps (2-3 GB per month), or Starband, which is in the middle: decent network, about 4 GB per month on the basic plan, closer to 8 on the advanced plan, as I recall.

Basically, the upshot is that satellite will give you broadband-like speeds for downloading files, but a much rougher web browsing experience, roughly comparable to a good modem link. When browsing, any satellite service is going to seem very slow compared to landline broadband, even with the same overall bandwidth available. It's the latency. You can absolutely feel that extra 1 second every time that it finds something that it needs to load seperately. It can, however, be nice to have that extra bandwidth available, which is why I haven't yet turned my dish into a bird feeder, despite the years of marginal service I've gotten from Hughes.

So, I hope I haven't scared the crap out of you too badly. Sorry if I seem harsh, I've been fighting for DSL for nine months now. :lol:

[Joelacrane]

Satellite clearly isnt going to work. Dad is a pysician, and the whole purpose of getting satellite internet is so that he can read echos here at home. I don't know any of the technical details, but from what dad tells me, its a "special machine" that needs an internet connection, and that one CD can hold a couple of echos.

When he says a "CD" I dont know if he means a DVD or just a regular 750mb CD.

Satellite just isn't going to do the trick.

I would like some information about EDGE and the other highspeed cellular options out there. We have cell service here, on our front porch it is quite good. All of the towers here are digital (Shut down analog a couple months ago) if that makes any difference. Also, dads cell plan is with Edge Wireless, which i beleive is part of Cingular/AT&T.

[ADBrown]

EDGE data service (Enhanced Data for GSM Evolution, not to be confused with the cell phone carrier Edge Wireless) isn't what I'd call high-speed, only up to a maximum of 200 Kbits, and averaging around 150. Still, it is much faster than a modem. I don't know what kind of data plans Edge Wireless may have, but I do know that Cingular puts some vague download caps on their plans.

There's also EVDO, which is offered by Sprint and Verizon, though the latter has a 5 GB per month download cap. If you can get Sprint EVDO coverage in your area, even if you have to mount an antenna on your roof, then you're golden: Sprint offers truly unlimited service, with peak speeds above a megabit. It's the closest thing that you can get to a traditional broadband experience via wireless.

There's also Cingular's high-speed network, but it's got a lot less coverage area, so you're less likely to be able to get it.

One last thing that you might actually look at is a T1 line, or find out whether your phone company might offer EDSL (which is similar to a T1, but a cheaper alternative for a residence). It would be expensive, certainly, but some providers will give you a T1 for $400 a month, and if you can split that cost with your father's employer, it might just be worth it, particularly when you consider the amount of guaranteed bandwidth that your father would need to download his files. EDSL isn't guaranteed the way a T1 is, but on the handful of companies that offer it, it does tend to be substantially cheaper.

[Joelacrane]

We also live up a gravel driveway 1/8th a mile away from the road.

You know whats funny, there is actually a fiber optic line that goes right past our driveway. Believe it or not, it goes to Asia. We live on the Oregon coast, and Sprint's main telephone/data line heads into the ocean less than 10 miles away from out house.

So for the fiber optic line, so close, yet so far away. Too bad it would cost 20k to plug into it.

[ADBrown]

That's got to hurt about the fiber line. Everybody's gotta envy fiber.

Also, talk about your crazy ironies--after years of hope, and a nine-month running battle with my phone company, I got hooked up for DSL today. It's only 32 Kbytes downstream, but it's so much better than my HughesNet satellite that I can't even describe it. Moral of the story: ever give up hope that you can be connected. I'm something like 35,000 feet from the central office, almost twice the rated distance for DSL, but I'm operational.

[Joelacrane]

So you are about 6 1/2 miles from a CO... Hmmm.

Did you call the company and just ask and argue for a connection in hopes that it would just work? I may be that close to a CO. As the crow flies, im less than 3 miles away, but by road, its could be under 7 miles.

Now, I'm a little confused about your connection speed. Are you downloading files at 35k or just "connected" at 35k? For example, windows reports that im connected at 21.6kbps, but when I download a file, it comes down the POT at 2k. Which is it? If you are downloading files at 35k, I would call Verizon and start asking and arguing with them TOMORROW.

So now I have a completely new set of questions for you.
Did you just argue that it might work until they finally let you try?
How reliable is the connection this far?
What ISP is it? (As i mentioned, we have Verizon here)
Is latency an issue? What kind of ping times are you getting?

Thanks for all the help, I think this might be an option. I might take a trip to town tomorrow specifically to see how far it is. I hope im not getting my hopes up for nothing.

[ADBrown]

Did you call the company and just ask and argue for a connection in hopes that it would just work?

Pretty much. I talked to a rep of theirs about a promotion they were having, and he did some digging, and decided that if my line didn't have load coils I should be able to get DSL. That pushed me to start complaining, and eventually it worked.

However, the fact that it worked for me on Frontier is no guarantee that it would work at the same distance on Verizon, or even in another situation on Frontier. It's very much a lucky break on my part, as rated DSL distances seldom exceed 18,000 feet. Of course, there are lots of other factors, such as remote terminals which can boost distance, load coils which kill signal, various strange wiring arrangements that can greatly increase your distance, etcetera.

Now, I'm a little confused about your connection speed. Are you downloading files at 35k or just "connected" at 35k? For example, windows reports that im connected at 21.6kbps, but when I download a file, it comes down the POT at 2k. Which is it? If you are downloading files at 35k, I would call Verizon and start asking and arguing with them TOMORROW.

That's the difference between Kbits and Kbytes. The 21k figure on your modem connection is Kbits, but your downloads are measures in Kbytes. 8 Kbits = 1 Kbyte. In my case, my actual download speed (tested) is around 32 Kbytes, or 260 Kbits.

So now I have a completely new set of questions for you.
Did you just argue that it might work until they finally let you try?

More or less. I also had the advantage of a tech who thought that it should work even at this distance, and who really did everything he could to make it go, shortening the line in several places, fixing some signal attenuation issues, etcetera.

How reliable is the connection this far?

It's worked perfectly other than one extended period where it dropped out--I think as a result of someone messing with something on the central office end. Very stable at around the same speeds.

What ISP is it? (As i mentioned, we have Verizon here)

Frontier Telephone of Rochester, owned by Citizens' Communications.

Is latency an issue? What kind of ping times are you getting?

Last time I checked, averaging 93 milliseconds.

Thanks for all the help, I think this might be an option. I might take a trip to town tomorrow specifically to see how far it is. I hope im not getting my hopes up for nothing.

One thing to remember is that the wires don't always follow the shortest or most logical route. Your best bet for figuring out if it's possible is to find a good street tech and ask them their opinion, and possibly get them to test out your line. They should be able to tell you whether there's a chance, or if it's not doable.

[Joelacrane]

I just asked Dad how far we live from town, and he said "About 7 miles." I think it might be possible.

I also stopped in and talked to Edge Wireless about getting something from the cell towers. For 49.99 a month + 250 for a PCMCIA card, we can get 60-100kbps from them, with no time/date transfer limits. Sounds like a decent deal, even though it is far from highspeed, it would be a lot quicker than what we have now.

I wonder if I could get a modem (To plug into my router) or a cheaper card somewhere else. Maybe it would just be a matter of popping an SIM card into it. Maybe even a cheap cell phone with USB cable would do the trick. As long as I can share it across my network like I am with my dialup, it could work.

[ADBrown]

I just asked Dad how far we live from town, and he said "About 7 miles." I think it might be possible.

Possible, albeit very dependant on the network. You might also inquire about ISDN or IDSL: they're slow compared to even the 256k DSL I have, but they have greater ranges, and they're faster than the cellular connection you're looking at.

I wonder if I could get a modem (To plug into my router) or a cheaper card somewhere else.

You could absolutely get a cheaper card--the Sony Ericsson aircards are quite cheap on eBay. I haven't, however, seen any even reasonably inexpensive devices to go from an aircard to a network. There are some, I believe called Stompboxes, which run around $200, maybe more.

Maybe it would just be a matter of popping an SIM card into it.

Edge Wireless is a GSM carrier, so it would be that simple.

Maybe even a cheap cell phone with USB cable would do the trick. As long as I can share it across my network like I am with my dialup, it could work.

That is possible, and fairly easy using Win XP's Internet Connection Sharing. It's what I did when I had Hughes, since my modem was one of the older USB types.