Cell Phone Use On Planes Banned by FCC

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8O9BCJ80&amp;show_article=1">http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8O9BCJ80&amp;show_article=1</a><br /><br /><i>"The Federal Communications Commission has officially grounded the idea of allowing airline passengers to use cellular telephones while in flight. Existing rules require cellular phones to be turned off once an aircraft leaves the ground in order to avoid interfering with cellular network systems on the ground. The agency began examining the issue in December 2004."</i><br /><br />I don't know why I thought this was the was the domain of the FAA - Federal Aviation Administration. I guess there is some potential interference with aircraft avionics, though no one has shown that to be the case as far as I know. It seems the FCC is concerned about cell phones hopping towers at over 500mph and causing disruption. So, there you have it folks. In the US of A, no cell phones in flight, at least with the current cell phone infrastructure.<br /><br />I, for one, am happy. Listening to some self-important middle manager blather to no one in particular during a flight was not something I was looking forward to.

[hamishmacdonald]

A pilot friend of mine told me the real reason for this policy. Of course, if a cell-phone could bring down a plane, we'd have far greater concerns than people travelling with toenail clippers or -- gasp! -- bottles of inert liquids.

The real reason that cell-phones can't be used on planes, according to my friend, is that they would tap into the airlines' wireless frequencies, which are exponentially more expensive than regular airtime fees.

Or something. But you can guess it's got something to do with money, not avionics.

[wjsteele]

I can say for a fact that cell phones (at least GSM based devices) do interfere with the Radio and Navigation equipment on my planes. I can hear quite frequently when that GSM Click goes off as my phone is checking for e-mail, v-mail, etc.

When this happens, my VOR needle bounces back and forth. Which normally wouldn't be so bad, but we use VOR to navigate with (when we're not using GPS - like on an approach.)

The reason the FCC doesn't like it is because when a phone get's up in the air, it can "see" several towers at once. When this happens, it tries to communicate with all of them. Not a good thing with a system that is designed to only handle one phone in one or at least a few different cell towers.

Bill

[Lex]

How the heck does a signal from a 1/3 of a watt (or whatever it is) cellphone penetrate the aircraft's hull, and reach down 30,000 feet to any tower?

[Jonathan1]

Thank god. One bastion from someone having a conversation with their wife about the outcome of Woofy's neutering. Next up theatres and churches. :twisted:

[virain]

Thank god. One bastion from someone having a conversation with their wife about the outcome of Woofy's neutering. Next up theatres and churches. :twisted:
I couldn't agree more. Nothing is more annoying when someone yapping next to your ear about puppy's sexual problems or try to baby-talk that poor mat over the phone.

[frankenbike]

When you're on an airplane, you are in a comfortable if temporary prison. You typically have no option to move. The flight attendants have absolute, unquestionable control over your options. Even to the point of denying you permission to use the bathroom if it interferes with serving drinks.

The one, undeniable fact is that on planes, inconsiderate people tend to be resolutely, even militantly inconsiderate. If they're allowed to talk on cell phones, you can bet that they will have no consideration for their seating mates. If you complain, but they're allowed to use their phones, they'll make it a point to be even more annoying, stopping the behavior when a flight attendant is nearby.

I can understand the business man or woman conducting business and doing their job. But personal calls, especially by younger people doing purely social calls and detailing the purchase of every article of clothing they've ever bought, can make you want to stick ice picks in your ear.

OTOH, I wouldn't have any objection to allowing text messaging on planes or receipt of email or web browsing. As long as everyone was required to turn their ringers off.

[TOCA]

OTOH, I wouldn't have any objection to allowing text messaging on planes or receipt of email or web browsing. As long as everyone was required to turn their ringers off.

Second that :!:

Blabbering away is not OK in a public place, where others can't avoid you, but texting, and surfing bothers noone, unless you use a monster of a laptop, with 17"+ widescreen and the whole office connected next to it.

[mtmra70]

The FAA rules are a joke.

"Please turn off all cell phones and electronics devices"

Miss, would you please help me remove the battery from my iPod? Also, is turning the radio off on the phone ok, or do I have to turn the entire unit off....oh wait, it doesnt turn off....looks like I have to remove the battery from that also.

[Paragon]

I wonder if it is possible, or feasible to allow data use only? Now with 3G data, it is on a different band than voice, so it seems logical that it would be possible to allow one but not the other. This would then allow people to be connected to email and other areas without being a nuisance to those around them.

As for cellphones being dangerous, I'll never believe it in a million years. If there was the slightest chance that a cellphone could bring down a plane I think the largest network worldwide would be bin lauden Wireless

My son is a pilot working on his commercial licence. Here in Canada pilots of small planes, (which use navigation) are encouraged to carry a cellphone with them. It is a very simple and effective way to communicate. Recently he had an electrical falilure, which among other things it took out his radio. In such circumstances a pilot is required to find an uncontroled field somewhere and land there, all the while contending with the fact that they have no electrical systems. In this case he simple called the tower on his cellphone, informed them of his problem and was able to land safely at his home field.

Dave

[ADBrown]

How the heck does a signal from a 1/3 of a watt (or whatever it is) cellphone penetrate the aircraft's hull, and reach down 30,000 feet to any tower?

30,000 feet is less than five and a half miles. Cell phones are rated for up to 15 miles, sometimes more, and from an aircraft you'd have clear line of sight. It wouldn't always work, of course, but sometimes it would.

[ricksfiona]

Thank god. One bastion from someone having a conversation with their wife about the outcome of Woofy's neutering. Next up theatres and churches. :twisted:

"I, for one, am happy. Listening to some self-important middle manager blather to no one in particular during a flight was not something I was looking forward to."

Amen to both of these...

Also, in California it is the law that you cannot hold your cellphone up to your ear while driving. From my experience at least, seems like this was a good law. Seems like there are less issues. There are still lumbnuts still doing it old-school. But hopefully, they'll get tagged soon.

[daS]

I can say for a fact that cell phones (at least GSM based devices) do interfere with the Radio and Navigation equipment on my planes. I can hear quite frequently when that GSM Click goes off as my phone is checking for e-mail, v-mail, etc.

When this happens, my VOR needle bounces back and forth. Which normally wouldn't be so bad, but we use VOR to navigate with (when we're not using GPS - like on an approach.)

Bill,
Are you a commercial pilot or are you talking about private planes?

Radio signals fall off with the square of the distance from the source. Given the very low power output of a cell phone, I doubt that any cell phone outside of the cockpit could be noticed.

Commercial avionics, being located in the E-racks below deck are quite protected from the passenger cabin. If you are a commercial pilot and you do see any sort of the interference that you describe, then you should report it to maintenance. It would indicate a problem with the shielding or grounding connections and should be repaired.

Since no documented interference with a commercial aircraft's operation has ever been shown to have been caused by passenger's cell phones, the FAA considered lifting the ban on their in-flight use. (Although, the airlines would have been allowed to continue the bans if they elected to.)

On the other hand, the FCC also bans cell phones in flight (and by the way - this also applies to private pilots, although enforcement is weak at best.) This is based not only on the speed in which a phone in flight moves from tower to tower, but also on how many towers are hit by the signal:

The cellular system works because the same frequency you use can also be used by another phone that is a couple of cells away from you. But when you are flying above the city, your signal "blankets" many cells below you at once - thereby greatly reducing the number of phones the system can support. (High rise buildings and mountains don't pose the same problem since "micro-cells" near these areas can be closer than the cells on the ground.)

Fortunately for those of us that really don't want to be locked up in a small metal tube with a bunch of other people yakking away, the FCC feels these technical issues are great enough not to allow the mid-air conversations.

[daS]

Also, in California it is the law that you cannot hold your cellphone up to your ear while driving. From my experience at least, seems like this was a good law. Seems like there are less issues. There are still lumbnuts still doing it old-school. But hopefully, they'll get tagged soon.
While the law has been signed, enforcement does not begin until I think 2008.

[daS]

My son is a pilot working on his commercial licence. Here in Canada pilots of small planes, (which use navigation) are encouraged to carry a cellphone with them. It is a very simple and effective way to communicate.
Hi Dave!

In the USA, it's still a violation of FCC regs (rather than FAA FARS) to use a cell phone in flight - even in a private plane. Of course, given the option of "sudden contact with ground" (aka a crash) and violating an FCC rule that is rarely enforced, I think I would opt to make the call. :wink:

[Paragon]

Hi Dave!

In the USA, it's still a violation of FCC regs (rather than FAA FARS) to use a cell phone in flight - even in a private plane. Of course, given the option of "sudden contact with ground" (aka a crash) and violating an FCC rule that is rarely enforced, I think I would opt to make the call. :wink:

Hey David! :)

Yeah, I'm not surprised to hear that. Cameron has mentioned several things that are different between the two countries. It can be confusing for pilots of both countries, I think....I think that the majority of folks see that there is little real danger from cellphone use on planes, but most seem to agree that the FCC using whatever minor technical issues there may be as a way to control annoying chatter on planes is welcome, as you pointed out.

Dave

[Stik]

Will airline WiFi be a compromise solution?

" The Federal Communications Commission has killed its long, drawn out consideration of cell phones on passenger airplanes by deciding against allowing their use. But the commission didn't close the door on in-flight Internet access, and the 300-member Wi-Fi Alliance believes the wireless vacuum on planes will soon be filled by wireless data-access technology. "

Cameron has mentioned several things that are different between the two countries.

While in Europe...

" In Europe, trials of wireless service for mobile phone users have been underway for several months. OnAir, which counts aircraft manufacturer AirBus as a partner, has asked European regulators to exempt its cell phone service from spectrum licensing and the European Commission so far has favored that approach. "

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cmp/20070405/tc_cmp/198800338;_ylt=A9G_RzGQhRRGL7oAKgUjtBAF

I personally dislike cellphone chit-chat in any closed public enviroment. It spikes my guilt complex as being an eavesdropper, although not of my own fault and free will. :roll:

[randyzon]

I travel very frequently and have had the opportunity to check service on my cell phone from takeoff to landing. I can pretty well guarantee that you won't have service by the time the airplane gets to 10,000 feet so the issue is really moot unless the airplane is equipped with some type of repeater or relay system. In addition, in the few minutes it takes for the airplane to get out of a metropolitan area there are no towers for service. For example, there are few towers in the mountains or deserts where very few people are travelling or reside on the ground so don't worry about having to listen to people on the phone because it just won't happen. I suppose that the 9/11 victims were fortunate that their airplanes didn't get very high off the ground and that they were in highly congested areas or they would not have been able to call anyone.

The real worry is that old airplanes had hard connections for every wired control or electrical system at system voltages (12v, 28v, or 110v) so there was no issue. The new aircraft have a pair of wires that run from the front of the aircraft to the tail and everything works thru a transmitter and receiver (yes, the rudder and the ailerons, landing gear, throttles, etc.) on various frequencies at very low voltages (maybe 2v or less). While the setup does not use radio frequencies there is a possibility that cell phones can generate enough of a voltage interruption (basic electricity rules when magnetic lines cross conductors) that the system could fail at an inopportune moment. Since the aircraft manufacturers don't have a standard test scheme to test for cellphone caused failure then they can't be used. A standard would have to specify a test from every seat all at once to seating groups, or specific locations on the airplane so testing in all possible situations is virtually impossible to do. The aircraft industry deals with unknowns by prohibition rather than purposely waiting to see if something will happen.

[Jacob]

Phone's won't work at all above 10,000 feet? Were the planes on 9/11 under that? (I'm actually curious because their phones did work).

I'm also pissed about the ridiculous "any electronics must be off rule" for takeoff and landing. Is there ANY reason why someone shouldn't be able to listen to their ipod during takeoff and/or landing?

[wbuch]

The government shouldn't be able to use their force to do this. If an airline wants to allow people to use phones on their own private property (i.e. their own planes) they should be able to.

[TOCA]

I'm also pissed about the ridiculous "any electronics must be off rule" for takeoff and landing. Is there ANY reason why someone shouldn't be able to listen to their ipod during takeoff and/or landing?

Yes there is 8O

9 out of 10 flight accidents happens in that phase, so you should have all your attention available to eventual sudden messages from the flight crew.

Allso, if the unthinkable happens, there is a risk of fuel leaks, and in that situation, the last thing tour fellow passengers want, is a spark produced by the electrical device you left running on the floor, when you panniced toward the exit.

[Ed Hansberry]

[quote=Jacob]Yes there is 8O

9 out of 10 flight accidents happens in that phase, so you should have all your attention available to eventual sudden messages from the flight crew.

then why don't they care if you sleep during that phase?

[Jacob]

Yes there is 8O

9 out of 10 flight accidents happens in that phase, so you should have all your attention available to eventual sudden messages from the flight crew.

Allso, if the unthinkable happens, there is a risk of fuel leaks, and in that situation, the last thing tour fellow passengers want, is a spark produced by the electrical device you left running on the floor, when you panniced toward the exit.

How many sparks are produced by a running PDA/iPod?

They shouldn't care about me using my PDA in these cases since I can hear everything and in the case of an accident - my attention will quickly be on something other than my PDA or my ipod.