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Jason Dunn
12-12-2006, 07:00 PM
Jerry Raia over at Smartphone Thoughts posted an interesting thought over the weekend that I thought would spur some good discussion here on Pocket PC Thoughts:<br /><br /><i>"On a quiet weekend what better thing than to have a little rant? I have chosen application activation as my irritation for the day. Let me be clear, I am not arguing with the concept of having it or the need for it. I’m only musing about the methods used. I will put these in the order they frustrate me the most. The most irritating by far is the method that ties the activation to the device or ROM. Every time I update a ROM or sell a device and get a new one, I have to chase down the developer and get a new activation code. No big deal you say? Not unless the developer folds up their tent. Next is the method that ties the activation to the email address listed in the Owners Information section of the device. I recently had an issue where I had used a different email address a few years ago to activate an application. I had since changed the email on my device. The new application kept changing the owner email field on my device every time I entered it in the application activation field. This of course would deactivate the old application! I had to contact the newer applications developer to change the email address used. No big deal right? Just a hassle and again, if the developer goes away, I'm cooked."</i><br /><br />As someone with six PCs in his home/office, and several Pocket PCs and Smartphones, I'm certainly not typical - but I find overly restrictive registration systems to be a huge pain in the...USB port. I deeply respect developers and people who want to protect their intellectual property, so I understand the need for serial numbers and a certain amount of "hoop jumping". If it takes me a few minutes to enter in a key, as long as it's broken up into five-digit blocks, I'm OK with that. Online product activation is where my frustration level tends to rise, however: there's one desktop PC product, <a href="http://www.activewords.com">ActiveWords</a>, that I simply can't use a PC without. It's amazingly useful (trust me, try it), but it requires a unique registration key that's tied to the hardware. So every time I install it on a PC (and I reformat/rebuild my PCs fairly often) I have to email the company and ask for a new registration key. That's a big hassle, and a big frustration for me. Spb Software House has started an online activation with their Spb DVD Mobile product as well - is it a sign of things to come with Windows Mobile developers? How far is "too far" for you when it comes to registration codes and authentication?

Paragon
12-12-2006, 07:48 PM
I'm with you guys on this one. I too support developers and their need to protect their work. I do however hate having to jump through hoops at the time of purchase and even more down the road, when I get a new device or after a hard reset.

It is becoming increasingly popular for developers to tie an activation to a single device. This is very shortsighted. I'm too embarrasses to publicly state how many pieces of software I own. If I had to email every single developer every time I made a switch or flashed a device it would be a nightmare. Imagine the email chain with dozens of developers trying to sort out my right to a new code. there would be an endless trail of responses such as not having the right email, username, password, and so on. DEVELOPERS.....PLEASE DON'T DO THAT. ;)

An acivation code delivered at the time of purchase is more than sufficient. Any more than that and people start looking elsewhere. Windows Mobile software has now reached the point where we DO have choices, and as consumers we WILL use those choices.

DEVELOPERS.....PLEASE BE SENSIBLE. We like the applications you work hard to build. We support your efforts. BUT, there is a limit to how far we will bend over.


Dave

paschott
12-12-2006, 07:53 PM
I have to agree to an extent. I may put up with something like this the first time I buy from a developer, but after that I'll definitely be more wary with upgrades or buying any other products. If my experience with a developer is a hassle, I'll look for alternatives or keep using whatever I have for as long as possible.

Quick note on SPB Mobile DVD - this is a little different from their other offerings because it installs only on a Windows PC, not on the mobile device. I can't speak for what they do behind the scenes - # of activations, etc, but it hasn't been a hassle so far. Now if I format my machine or try to move the program, I may have something else to say about it. :)

I will admit that my biggest concern is if the shop/programmer closes down the project. At that point, it would be nice to either release a slightly updated version that would use a registration system that isn't as restrictive - a final way to support those people who supported you. That way if you paid for the product, you're not out of luck if your device crashes and you need to re-activate or if you want to transfer your product to a new device because you've upgraded.

-Pete

Airscanner
12-12-2006, 08:02 PM
Abandonware should no biggie anymore...as of last month it be came legal to reverse engineer/crack abandonware. (It was in the same ruling that states that phone unlocking software is now perfectly legal.) The US Copyright office has just ruled that "copy protection on software no longer being sold or supported by its copyright holder can be cracked." It is maybe the most sensible thing to come out of the USPTO in decades :)

So it is a simple matter to get a new registration code if the developer goes under. If you don't know how to reverse engineer abandonware, you can usually ask for help on one of many forums and some kind sould will be happy to do it for you. We also have tutorials on our site for reverse engineerng Windows Mobile apps, and we actually wrote the first book showing how (Security Warrior, O'Reilly, 2004).

I agree that too many developers go overboard over tying software to hardware ID codes. It seems there should be "fair use" of purchased software; for example, if your device dies and you need to use the software on a new one, during the license period.

Brad

capo
12-12-2006, 08:19 PM
Most of my PPC apps use license keys. I find that perfectly acceptable - yes, the long ones are a nuisance, but that's the way it goes. I have just one app that is associated to hardware and I've had to contact the developer to generate a new key a couple of times. It's a great little app, but I'm keeping my eyes open for a replacement. The fact is, in a Windows Mobile world, hard resets are not all that unusual, and the inconvenience of having to contact the developer again and again for a new key is not something I'm happy about having to do. I hadn't even thought of the abandonware angle. I tend to abandon apps for newer and shinier alternatives before their developers do. :-)

SHC
12-12-2006, 08:20 PM
It also depends on the good nature of the developer too. I have several hundred dollars worth of Skyscape titles - all of which are locked to the device. They have never yet refused me new codes because I've changed device. On the other hand, a developer that offered free updates for a year refused to provide me with a reminder of my activation code which I'd lost, because my product was over a year old even though I was perfectly happy to use the "old" version.
I don't mind activation codes that are tied to my "owner name" - that never changes but my device and e-mail address often do!

haesslich
12-12-2006, 09:31 PM
If it involves activation.. then the question is 'is there an automated option for this, which may not involve the INternet if I'm away from the Net for a few days, or does it require talking to the company?' For me, some activation schemes are okay - PocketPlayer does lock it to a device.. but they're usually not too bad about retrieving activation keys. Opera, on the other hand, changes registration keys whenever you do a hard reset, which suggests it's randomly generated based on the OS state or something else that's not hardware-based at the time... which makes it a real pain in the ass, as the registration key's different each time and it takes contacting a live person to get the key back, which involves a three or so day wait at least; I've had to do it three times.

Activation during install's also okay - that's not too intrusive. Now, if the program asks me to activate it every week or so... well, then it's going a bit far, even if it's to comply with the wishes of the other license holders whose products your program's licensing from. I'm seriously hoping CorePlayer doesn't go down this route.

drowe
12-12-2006, 09:34 PM
I agree with all the rest of the posters. I like the codes tied to my "owner name" since that is the one thing that isn't going to change for me. Plus I would be even more reluctant to give the code out if I had to give my name as the slime-bucket who put out the code! The only downside to this scheme is women who change their name.....

hang5lngbd
12-12-2006, 10:29 PM
Windows Mobile devices are simply not stable enough to require a computer and activation when installing a program. If I'm lost somewhere and have to do a hard reset, the last thing I want to worry about is having to activate my GPS mapping software before being able to use it. Oh, and the activation can only be done while connected with activesync? Why not requre the GPS program to only work in my home town while you're at it.

This is not the PC market, warez is not easily availible for Windows Mobile devices.

Give me the program (and it better be in .cab) and a serial number if you must, but if there's anything more than that, then I'm not buying it!

And have you ever tried calling a company up to see what their authentication method is? They treat you like a crook! I'm a power user, and that's apparantly NOT ok.

Jason Lee
12-12-2006, 11:58 PM
I down right refuse to buy software that requires online activation. But that is getting harder and harder...
I refused to buy Tom tom because of it's activation crap. The same thing when Half Life 2 came out. I loved the first game but i refuse to buy the second one because of the activation.

Buzzmodo
12-13-2006, 12:13 AM
We, i.e. ActiveWords , would love a better solution! What we have works pretty well, and we are very liberal with our licensing for our users, i.e. if you have ten computers that "you" use, we will unlock ActiveWords ten times.

But we need to get paid for our product and try to balance ease of use/registration with the realities of running a business.

If anyone knows or likes a particular system, let us know!

Our goal is to improve the user experience in anyway we can!

Buzz
[email protected]

juni
12-13-2006, 06:30 AM
Abandonware should no biggie anymore...as of last month it be came legal to reverse engineer/crack abandonware.

Does this apply to weatherpanel? Or has anyone heard from the developer? I stopped recommending it since he disappeared.

I'll enter activation/registration keys no matter if they are complicated or the process tedious if it is a piece of software I really want. The most complex one I have is Pocket Artist, which has me enter two long codes (since I bought an upgrade and have to enter the v.1 key and then the new one).

lanwarrior
12-13-2006, 10:11 AM
Yep, this applies to WeatherPanel. I bought that program and I lost the key. Emailed the developer long time ago, NEVER responded.

This, and the extremely cumbersome activation, are the reasons WHY people go to WAREZ.

Ilium Software
12-13-2006, 03:56 PM
Activation codes are a lot like the locks on your house. They keep the honest folks honest. People who reallywant to steal your app can find a way to do it. As a developer you have to make an effort but, at least for us, we draw the line at what makes the user work too hard for something they already paid good money for. When you do that you're just punishing the honest people.

I say this in part due to my own feeling on the subject. I had to give up a number of apps because of device linked codes. As a developer I hard reset my devices ALL the time. I just can't go back asking for a new code everytime I do this.


Marc Tassin
Ilium Software
--------------------
[email protected]
+1 (734) 973-9388
---------------------
http://www.iliumsoft.com

And be sure check out our new blog! http://blog.iliumsoft.com/

disconnected
12-13-2006, 05:03 PM
I'm fine with an activation key based on user name. An app has to be something I really, really want if it's tied to a device.

And please don't have a twenty character key that is written in small print, has to be keyed manually, and uses zeros and the letter O or ones and the letter I. :evil:

John Cody
12-13-2006, 05:21 PM
I'm fine with an activation key based on user name. An app has to be something I really, really want if it's tied to a device.

And please don't have a twenty character key that is written in small print, has to be keyed manually, and uses zeros and the letter O or ones and the letter I. :evil:

Because of that very same frustration I have with other apps, I designed the regcodes for my apps to treat all these characters the same:

i=I=l=L=1
u=U=v=V
O=o=0

RogueSpear
12-14-2006, 12:01 AM
If a title requires online activation, ties the software to particular hardware, etc. I don't but it. Plain and simple. This carries over into my work as well. I'm the network administrator for a police department. We have some software that was purchased without my consultation that uses some of the most draconian copy protection imaginable. I've told those who spent the several thousand dollars on those titles that the copy protection and activation of those titles is now their responsibility. Needless to say there hasn't been a single purchase made since if it involves this kind of nonsense.

We actually had one developer that was so desperate to sell us their software that they offered to give us a "universal key" that would eliminate the online activation and the need to use a USB dongle. Sorry, too little too late.

I've found that there seems to be a definite correlation between the quality of the software and the quality of the customer service to that of the copy protection used. The more aggressive the copy protection the worse of the former.

I fully realize that there is an overwhelming majority of people who feel it is their divine right to have all the software, music, movies, etc. free of charge and that they will go to great lengths to get it without paying, but alienating your legitimate clients will only ensure that there are more thieves who use your product than paying customers.

martin_ayton
12-14-2006, 10:56 AM
An activation code tied to the hardware is what finally convinced me to send TomTom Navigator 6 back for a full refund. I am on to my 3rd Vario2 (aka HTC Hermes) and I hate the fact that before TomTom will provide me with a new activation code I have to:

1) Prove that I own the TomTom software, despite the fact that I bought it direct from TomTom over their website

2) Prove that I own the PPC (despite the fact that in one case I have done this to their satisfaction *twice* already). Actually, when the PPC is a phone device provided / subsudised by a carrier, proving ownership is not a trivial exercise.

Developers: Tie the registration to my user name. Tie it to my credit card number if you want (It works for eReader books). Have the software 'phone home occasionally to ensure that I am only using one copy if you really must. Please don't tie it to the hardware, or you won't be seeing the colour of my money.

shaxs
12-15-2006, 09:07 PM
Online activation is a lot more secure for developers as simple RPN key checks can be cracked to easily. If the software gives you 15-30 demo full featured and you have to reinstall, then I dont see what the problem. Especially if the developer has a way for you to generate or reset your license key online easily without the developers intervention. Thats the system I have in place and that I have created.

It allows the user full access to an app for a specified amount of time which is more than enough time to let them connect the app to active sync. Allows the user to easily reset their license status without developer intervention. Seems to be like a decent system. Also, it is not tied to hardware specifically or a username. It just checks to see if the license exists and what the status is.

P.S. I actually have a developers module for use in .net programs if any developer would like a copy to help me do final testing and then keep it ;)

P.S.S To the person who said Pocket PC warez is not easily to find--> You are mistaken. It is very easy to find and very discouraging.

asr_guy
12-16-2006, 06:39 PM
Does anyone have proof that software activation increases profits?

Most internet marketers who are now starting to sell software don't bother with all this, but that's because they test the heck out of everything they do, and they know it's not worth the hassle to their honest customers.

Seems like a lot of speculation and opinions here, on a concept that has been debated for years.

Is there any test case (e.g. you have two brands of the same product - one with activation and the other without) or research to refer to?

Cheers,
Peter

Mark from Canada
12-18-2006, 09:59 PM
Well, here is my list of preferences:

• Full version
• Serial#
• PocketPC only: Owner Name
• Activation based on serial
• Activation/Serial based on Hardware

The further down the list, the better/more unique/desperately needed the program has to be to be considered.

So, if I can find a program that is higher up in the list and it is missing features compared to one that is lower in the list, and I don't really need these features, then I buy the one further up. Even if it costs the same or a bit more thatn the one with more features.
I try to avoid buying anything based in hardware ID's. I frequently don't even look at games requiring Activation and/or Hardware ID.

Mark

hoffman
12-29-2006, 06:07 PM
I certainly agree that online activation and excessive demands as proof of identifaction is a hassle. I have a couple of issues now where I have had to spend a lot of energy to get a new registration for a upgrade the producers informed me about.
I sometime have to spend hours getting a registration code for a product that I already own for my own personal use.
The other hassle is where the producer informs you of an upgrade and after you have installed it you find that it is necessary to purchse a upgrade for the code because you have passed the time limit for free upgrades and if you are not interested in purchasing the upgrade because you think the latest upgrade is not an improvement or even worse than the old product you find it is necessary to start scouting for the old edition if you have not kept the exe file on your PC.
Regards Brian

zetsurin
12-30-2006, 11:53 PM
This is an interesting discussion and I will throw my own 2 cents into it:

- In November, I finally decided to release an application to the PC market. Note that I have played around with various forms of my application literally for years before deciding exactly what I wanted to do. I worked feverishly to meet the deadline I had planned with a specific feature set and function, in the technology I had chosen.

- 5 days after release a keygen appeared all over the net. I had a grand total of... 3 sales at that point.

- I switched the registration over to the a secure keyfile based system which solved the keygen problem, but 1 day after the release of this build and one cracker thought it was a great idea to get a cracked version onto a 0 day warez list which has been pumped about the net. Total number of registrations at the time this happened? 7!

I'm now sitting on 8 registrations and watching hundreds of downloads come from my server which indicate referers of just about any crack and warez site you can imagine. Trust me though, people love the app, I get a lot of great feedback and a lot of my peers have found it invaluable. The number of registrations I am getting is clearly not reflecting this. I found a file sharing forum on the net where multiple people thanked the pirate for posting my file indicating that 'they had been looking for it. Christ, it's under 10 bucks!

At this point after years of planning it appears to be time to stare down the barrel of the gun already. I've convinced myself that it's pointless working any further on the application as it essentially does all I need it to do and my effective hourly rate based on current registrations is literally dwarfed by the earnings of someone working in a Nike sweatshop.

Anyway, from my experience I can TOTALLY relate to people wanting to employ draconian measures to ensure that they aren't being ripped off in the way that I have felt I have during my early experiences in the world of shareware. Those people who wouldn't buy something because of stiff anti-piracy measure probably just cancels out the loss of sales to piracy anyway I guess.

One saving grace for my application is that all the future functionality I have planned (which I am deciding whether to do) involves online capabilities, which is something the pirates will lose as I already have the means to detect pirated copies at my server.

Cheers

Phillip Dyson
01-02-2007, 12:05 AM
Whats frustrating me the most is when activation and registration strategies are not clear.

I've done searches over at CorePlayer.com trying to understand how they do it and can't find anything laying it out. I'd like to know what I'm in for before I put down my money.

You would think a sticky in their forums would make sense, but couldn't find anything.