Web 2.0 and Mobile Devices

[Darius Wey]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.infoworld.com/article/06/10/18/HNcopyweb2_1.html' target='_blank'>http://www.infoworld.com/article/06...copyweb2_1.html</a><br /><br /></div><i>"... the inherent constraints of mobile phones and networks mean that many Web 2.0 services won't work well without some changes to accommodate those limitations."</i><br /><br /><a href="http://www.infoworld.com/article/06/10/18/HNcopyweb2_1.html">Here's</a> an interesting article that looks at why <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_2">Web 2.0</a> may not play nice with mobile devices, but also looks at a client-based solution that covers some of the technical limitations. It's worth a read, especially since we're already seeing some of these services in action today.

[Menneisyys]

Interesting article.

I was a speaker yesterday on a (regional) W3C conference on using / accessing the Web (NOT specifically 2.0!) from mobile devices, where I’ve elaborated on the current Web (with very strong emphasis on my thorough tests of Web 2.0’s features like Ajax) accessibility situations on Windows Mobile (and, to a much lesser degree, mobile-based Linux like Sharp Zaurii). I’ve used a W3C-specific approach to the subject. That is, instead of, say, speaking about what features the GUI offers (does it support, for example, downloading link targets easily and so on), I mostly elaborated on compliance issues with current Web standards.

As opposed to what some people say (and what one would think based on the linked article), I’d say the situation isn’t at all bad – at least on Windows Mobile, where we have some really nice and standards-compliant browsers: Minimo, Opera Mobile, and aside from the poor CSS and even worse, as far as pre-AKU3 is concerned (still haven't had the chance to test AKU3 Ajax compliance), Ajax support, the WM5 PIE/IEM. That is, for us “full” Windows Mobile (not MS Smartphone!) users, Web 2.0 will be in no way as incompatible as some people say.

(BTW, here’s the PPT presentation (http://www.winmobiletech.com/sekalaiset/WernerRuotsalainenWinMobileBrowsers.rar) if interested – sorry for the non-English language. Still, it may be worth checking out at least the headers, the references and the screenshots to see what I’ve elaborated on – that is, what needs to be emphasized on the current HTTP / HTML / CSS / JavaScript / Ajax / Java / Flash compliance of current Web browsers.)

[Eugenia]

I actually blogged on this article a few hours ago.
http://eugenia.blogsome.com/2006/10/18/the-headache-of-ajax-web20-css/

[murph]

yeah because that's what i want on my phone...5-6 different "clients" for all the services i use. :roll:

[Menneisyys]

yeah because that's what i want on my phone...5-6 different "clients" for all the services i use. :roll:

Unfortunately, today, it's the only way of being able to access about 99% of the current contents available on the Web today. You need to use one client for a given Webpage, another for another etc.

Still, it's much better a situation than on the Palm or Symbian - even Nokia's latest OSS browser is, in my opinion, is definitely weaker than, say, IEM in AKU3 (Ajax!) + PIEPlus + Macromedia Flash 7 + CrEme JVM.

(I'll publish some more info on OSS later - I had the chance to play with it yesterday, on the W3C conference.)

[SteveHoward999]

yeah because that's what i want on my phone...5-6 different "clients" for all the services i use. :roll:

Unfortunately, today, it's the only way of being able to access about 99% of the current contents available on the Web today. You need to use one client for a given Webpage, another for another etc.

That's why I limit my mobile surfing. Well - a few reasons.

1, it's a lot slower than PC
2, a lot of sites are just not mobile friendly
3, I have no plans to try Web Site A on even 2 browsers, let alone 3, 4, 5 or even 6. If it fails on the device I have to hand, then, unless I have a strong reason to look at the site later on my PC or laptop, that site just lost my interest forever.

[Cybrid]

That's why I limit my mobile surfing. Well - a few reasons.

1, it's a lot slower than PC
2, a lot of sites are just not mobile friendly
3, I have no plans to try Web Site A on even 2 browsers, let alone 3, 4, 5 or even 6. If it fails on the device I have to hand, then, unless I have a strong reason to look at the site later on my PC or laptop, that site just lost my interest forever.
While I understand your position, I think the critical thing is that... Mobile devices cannot replace Desktops and will not. It wasn't and cannot be meant to. By sheer proportionate size, a desktop offers the advantage of being able to fit larger CPU's and HDD's and all that geeky goodness.
The mobile device should be considered an extension of computers. While I would love an UMPC or equivalent for my amusement, it is impractical to carry 24/7. I use handhelds as information storage and access. I get most things done through my handhelds during the commute, lunch and the left over I handle on my PC. Time I normally didn't get anything done in is utilized and my time at home on a PC is saved.

[SteveHoward999]

While I understand your position, I think the critical thing is that... Mobile devices cannot replace Desktops and will not. It wasn't and cannot be meant to. By sheer proportionate size, a desktop offers the advantage of being able to fit larger CPU's and HDD's and all that geeky goodness.


You do know that it is illegal to say "cannot" when talking about computing and electronics, don't you? ;-)

In many ways my pocketPC is more powerful than desktop computers of 10 or so years ago. So is my phone. The small screen and clumsy interface aside, mobile devices really can be used to replace many desktop features, but not all - yet.

In a few years time things will be rather different ...

[Cybrid]

You do know that it is illegal to say "cannot" when talking about computing and electronics, don't you? ;-)

In many ways my pocketPC is more powerful than desktop computers of 10 or so years ago. So is my phone. The small screen and clumsy interface aside, mobile devices really can be used to replace many desktop features, but not all - yet.

In a few years time things will be rather different ...
Nope, never* happen. Why? 10 years from now your 2.0 capable handheld will not be able to handle Web 3.0 desktop applications. Software improvements drive hardware improvements drive software developers to build larger applications to take advantage of hardware
improvements which are software improvements that drive hardware...ad nauseam.

*Quantum computing aside.

[SteveHoward999]

Nope, never* happen.


"Cannot" and "never" ...

I don't know what sto say. I thought everyone knew not to be so definitive about computing ;-)

[Cybrid]

"Cannot" and "never" ...

I don't know what sto say. I thought everyone knew not to be so definitive about computing ;-) Nope, not so much a matter of computing as a matter of human nature &amp; physics. Say by some miracle...they build a molecular sized PC. A dual core would still be 2 molecules in size. A distributed computing super computer some larger number of molecules...
As for human nature... compare any application, say Word from Win 3.11 to 95 to 98 to XP to Vista. It got bigger, and I hope more functional (I can't say I'm proficient enough to notice any significant changes...). Win 3.11 was 16Mb and XP is 4GB.
In the same way, any application will bulge to absorb the resources available to it.

[Menneisyys]

1, it's a lot slower than PC
2, a lot of sites are just not mobile friendly
3, I have no plans to try Web Site A on even 2 browsers, let alone 3, 4, 5 or even 6. If it fails on the device I have to hand, then, unless I have a strong reason to look at the site later on my PC or laptop, that site just lost my interest forever.

While I agree on their being (comparatively) slow, you've forgotten to list a real advantage of the platform: being instant-on, usable-anywhere (including the bed - I wouldn't open my Thinkpad a31p for a 2-minute Web browsing session just to check the latest news / mail :) ), pocketable etc.

Pocket PC web browsers do have their place under the sun. I use these browsers just like their desktop counterparts - or even more. Mobility and the other advantages listed above really let for browsing the web at situations where doing the same with even a super-light notebook (like the x60s) would be not feasible (for example, while walking).

And if you do need mobility, you'll also try which browser renders a given page the best. The advantages of mobility clearly outweigh the problem of the need to switch to another browser when you want to access a given page.

(BTW, I've published my W3C report in the meantime - see this (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=51951))

[SteveHoward999]

[quote="Menneisyys"

While I agree on their being (comparatively) slow, you've forgotten to list a real advantage of the platform: being instant-on, usable-anywhere (including the bed - I wouldn't open my Thinkpad a31p for a 2-minute Web browsing session just to check the latest news / mail :) ), pocketable etc.
[/quote]

I didn't say I never browse on mobile devices, I use my PDA and phone all the time to. I said I avoid sites that are too slow and bloated to be useble on a mobile device. If it takes 2 minutes to load the page on my PDA then it would have been quicker to fire up my laptop!

The reason I carry my PDA and phone everywhere is for all that convenience you listed ;-)