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View Full Version : Opera 8.60 for Pocket PC Released


Darius Wey
05-31-2006, 05:30 PM
<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.opera.com/products/mobile/products/winmobileppc/' target='_blank'>http://www.opera.com/products/mobil...s/winmobileppc/</a><br /><br /></div><i>"With Opera on your Pocket PC, you can surf the same Web sites as you do on your personal computer. The Opera 8.60 mobile Web browser for Windows Mobile is designed with speed and ease-of-use in mind."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20060601-Opera.jpg" /><br /><br />Opera for Pocket PC: it's out of beta and available for all to try and buy. This browser is blazingly fast and supports a number of neat features such as small-screen rendering, tabbed browsing, zoom support, a download manager, a pop-up blocker, and much more. It's available for devices running Windows Mobile 2003 (both editions) and Windows Mobile 5.0. You can download a free trial from <a href="http://www.opera.com/products/mobile/products/winmobileppc/">here</a>, which lasts for 30 days. If you like it, it will <a href="http://www.opera.com/buy/">set you back US$24</a>.

SteveHoward999
05-31-2006, 05:34 PM
Any sign of Flash support?

Lost Cause
05-31-2006, 06:50 PM
My what a huge disappointment ! What's the point of putting out Betas if they only correct half the bugs ?

I have an X50v running WM2003SE. I'm running it in hi-res VGA mode.

I've just downloaded the latest demo, and after a mere 20mins of playing here's what I've found so far:

Pros
The Courier fonts have gone.
Zoom now works properly.
Double space problem gone on keyboard.
Keyboard comes up correctly in context now.
Javascript (edited - previously read Java) pages seem to work fine.



Cons
The progress bar still covers the horizontal scroll bar.
I find the progress bar annoying, and can't see a means to turn it off.
My D-Pad won't scroll me vertically in the same manner as PIE. Instead, it operates as per the Betas and tabs you between various screen elements.
The highlight problem is still there i.e. links won't work if you've accidentally managed to highlight another link. So you have to click a blank bit of screen to de-select, then hit the link.
Flash still doesn't work.
On long pages, the information stays all corrupted at the end.


Frustrated is just not the word. This was all looking so promising. Why ignore half the bad stuff after all this time ?????????

Gerard
05-31-2006, 06:59 PM
Nope. no Flash. I've the latest Macromedia Flash plugin for Pocket IE installed and it works well in PIE, but Flash-based pages show nothing in this Opera.

It doesn't import Favorites either, which is the deal breaker for me. With over 800 links in my bookmark collection, having access to none of them in Opera feels like my hands are tied.

For speed, it is impressive. I installed to an SD card on my WM2003SE e800, tried a few image-rich pages, and saw them load much faster than either PIE or Netfront 3.3.

SteveHoward999
05-31-2006, 08:24 PM
Nope. no Flash. I've the latest Macromedia Flash plugin for Pocket IE installed and it works well in PIE, but Flash-based pages show nothing in this Opera.

Ah but I would not expect that version of the Flash player to work, since it is an ActiveX control and won't work in non-IE browsers. Anyone tried using the Plugin version of the Flash Player?

burtcom
05-31-2006, 08:29 PM
Java pages seem to work fine.

Opera includes a Java VM? (Or do you mean JavaScript?)

Lost Cause
05-31-2006, 11:25 PM
I meant Javascript.

snorbard
06-01-2006, 12:14 AM
It doesn't import Favorites either, which is the deal breaker for me. With over 800 links in my bookmark collection, having access to none of them in Opera feels like my hands are tied.


I haven't tried this myself, but since Opera for Windows and Opera for Windows Mobile use the same file for storing bookmarks, I'm sure you could get a utility to convert your bookmars into an Opera-compatible format, and just copy that file (Opera6.adr, I believe) over to Opera Mobile's Profiles directory..

Patrick Y.
06-01-2006, 12:21 AM
I wonder if there will ever be a free version...

RobrechtV
06-01-2006, 01:25 AM
Ugh! I'm usually one to focus on the positive things, but this program is just plain bad!

My first 2 minutes' experience: it can't render www.somethingawful.com correctly in any of the display settings (the right column always goes straight over the central text), it's barely customisable, and it doesn't even get google right! Not by a long shot! Unless they recently changed the site's name to
GOO
G
LE
G
:evil:

This thing has been worked on for so long and none of the developers ever noticed it got google wrong?? What a disappointment after a promising beta. I don't care how sophisticated it is internally: it takes up 6MB and doesn't do its job.

Until these guys get their act together, MultiIE remains one of the reasons I'm not upgrading my Blue Angel to WM5.

Gerard
06-01-2006, 01:34 AM
It is rather confusing to me that no browser developer has taken the time to install MultiIE and set it up nicely, then consider such functionality in development of their own browser. Or if they have, they've done a terrible job of it. Neither Netfront nor this Opera version come close to the slick, convenient usability of MultiIE and Pocket IE together. And MultiIE hasn't been updated in almost 2 YEARS!!!

alese
06-01-2006, 02:16 AM
I haven't tried the new release yet.
But I can say that Beta2 is working very well on my Universal in TrueVGA mode. For me it's almost desktop experience.

jngold_me
06-01-2006, 02:50 AM
Ugh! I'm usually one to focus on the positive things, but this program is just plain bad!

My first 2 minutes' experience: it can't render www.somethingawful.com correctly in any of the display settings (the right column always goes straight over the central text), it's barely customisable, and it doesn't even get google right! Not by a long shot! Unless they recently changed the site's name to
GOO
G
LE
G
:evil:

This thing has been worked on for so long and none of the developers ever noticed it got google wrong?? What a disappointment after a promising beta. I don't care how sophisticated it is internally: it takes up 6MB and doesn't do its job.

Until these guys get their act together, MultiIE remains one of the reasons I'm not upgrading my Blue Angel to WM5.

Both of your examples render just fine on the WM5 version. My setting is set to "fit to screen" and there's no problem at all.

I am very impressed with this browser speedwise. I don't visit flash sites on my mobile device anyways, so I could care less about that functionality.

I particularly like the ability to dl to the directory of my choice and the ability to switch from desktop to handheld mode without hacking and soft-resetting.

ADBrown
06-01-2006, 03:27 AM
Ah but I would not expect that version of the Flash player to work, since it is an ActiveX control and won't work in non-IE browsers. Anyone tried using the Plugin version of the Flash Player?

I don't think it would work. Opera on the desktop doesn't have a Flash plugin, it has Flash built in directly (at least, that's the case on Opera 5.12 and 7.54, I don't know about 8.x and above). So there's no plugin to pull out. And in any event, Opera Mobile doesn't have an obvious spot to put plugins. I may just be that the directory doesn't exist, but they may have had to leave the plugin architecture out of the early versions.

ADBrown
06-01-2006, 03:27 AM
Ugh! I'm usually one to focus on the positive things, but this program is just plain bad!

I don't know what went wrong for you, but in my opinion Opera is by far the best mobile web browser available--and I haven't even tried the full version yet, I'm still running on beta 2. It does great with Google--I've never had to use the stripped down mobile version, unlike with IE, I always go straight to the desktop edition. Likewise, all but a handful of sites display as well as they would on a desktop, and you have support for tabbed browsing to boot.

Menneisyys
06-01-2006, 08:45 AM
Java pages seem to work fine.

JavaScript != Java. Neither Opera Mobile nor Opera Mini support Java. The JavaScript compliance of Opera Mobile, however, is by far the best (much better than that of PIE/IEM or NetFront) - see for example the latest compliance/bug report I published yesterday (also here at PPCT (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=49049))

My D-Pad won't scroll me vertically in the same manner as PIE. Instead, it operates as per the Betas and tabs you between various screen elements.

This can be very eaisly fixed. See the "Opera 8.5b2" section in the article How do I modify the default scrolling behaviour of Web browsers? (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=547&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1).

Flash still doesn't work.

Unfortunately, it has only simple Flash support (playing some very simple Flash videos) - nothing as sophisticated as more elaborate Flash stuff utilizing advanced stuff. AFAIK (and according to the author of Minimo), Macromedia (Adobe) hasn't published the API of their PIE/IEM Flash plug-in; this is why no third-party browsers (Opera Mobile, NetFront (NF has a Flash implementation but it's certainly worse than that of Adobe), Minimo, Thunderhawk) can use their plug-ins. (This problem has also been discussed in this article (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=402005).)

On long pages, the information stays all corrupted at the end.

Can you give me some URL's of these pages? I've been testing Opera on WM2003SE (on a Pocket Loox 720) and WM2003 (on an iPAQ 2210) and, unlike with 8.5 b2 (where this problem was indeed a real pain in the back), have never run into this problem at all. It may be an x50v + WM2003SE-related problem.

Menneisyys
06-01-2006, 08:49 AM
I haven't tried the new release yet.
But I can say that Beta2 is working very well on my Universal in TrueVGA mode. For me it's almost desktop experience.

The final version is really worth a try - much better than beta2. A big step forward in almost every respect.

(I hope I will be able to publish the review today.)

Menneisyys
06-01-2006, 08:53 AM
the ability to switch from desktop to handheld mode without hacking and soft-resetting

Yup, soft resets with some PIE plug-ins have indeed been absolutely needless when changing the User-Agent. Fortunately, some PIE plug-in authors like Reensoft did read for example this article (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/index.php?action=expand,42026) (which explains why it's not needed) and the latest PIEPlus no longer needs a soft reset, "only" exiting IEM/PIE.

Menneisyys
06-01-2006, 08:55 AM
I am very impressed with this browser speedwise.

Agreed. It's freaking fast. Pocket Internet Explorer, particularly under WM5 (where it's considerably slower than under WM2003/WM2003SE), is much-much slower.

For me, page loading/rendering speed is probably the most important in a browser. If I click a link, I want to see its contents ASAP.

Menneisyys
06-01-2006, 08:58 AM
Until these guys get their act together, MultiIE remains one of the reasons I'm not upgrading my Blue Angel to WM5.

You should give a try to PIEPlus 2.0 (under WM5), if you really want to stick to IEM. (I wouldn't - IEM is so much slower than Opera Mobile.) See the review here at PPCT (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=48926).

Menneisyys
06-01-2006, 09:00 AM
Java pages seem to work fine.

Opera includes a Java VM? (Or do you mean JavaScript?)

Unfortunately, it doesn't. The Opera staff should examine the possibilities of interfacing with, say, the CrEme JVM plug-in, though - it's by far the best applet JVM for the Pocket PC.

Menneisyys
06-01-2006, 09:03 AM
Anyone tried using the Plugin version of the Flash Player?

Unfortunately, it won't work. See this Minimo thread (http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=391220) for the explanation by the author of Minimo.

alese
06-01-2006, 09:36 AM
I haven't tried the new release yet.
But I can say that Beta2 is working very well on my Universal in TrueVGA mode. For me it's almost desktop experience.

The final version is really worth a try - much better than beta2. A big step forward in almost every respect.

(I hope I will be able to publish the review today.)

I'll keep my fingers crossed for the review :-)
I don't want to install the final version of the browser, before I get some solid information if it's worth upgrading from Beta2.
I just don't want to pay for the browser if it's not really neccessary...

Menneisyys
06-01-2006, 09:43 AM
I haven't tried the new release yet.
But I can say that Beta2 is working very well on my Universal in TrueVGA mode. For me it's almost desktop experience.

The final version is really worth a try - much better than beta2. A big step forward in almost every respect.

(I hope I will be able to publish the review today.)

I'll keep my fingers crossed for the review :-)
I don't want to install the final version of the browser, before I get some solid information if it's worth upgrading from Beta2.
I just don't want to pay for the browser if it's not really neccessary...

You don't need to pay for the trial version of the final 8.6 - it'll reset the counter and will start counting back from 30 days.

The final version is MUCH better than beta2 - it's certainly worth upgrading to the new trial.

Lost Cause
06-01-2006, 02:35 PM
Java pages seem to work fine.

JavaScript != Java. Neither Opera Mobile nor Opera Mini support Java. The JavaScript compliance of Opera Mobile, however, is by far the best (much better than that of PIE/IEM or NetFront) - see for example the latest compliance/bug report I published yesterday (also here at PPCT (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=49049))

My D-Pad won't scroll me vertically in the same manner as PIE. Instead, it operates as per the Betas and tabs you between various screen elements.

This can be very eaisly fixed. See the "Opera 8.5b2" section in the article How do I modify the default scrolling behaviour of Web browsers? (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=547&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1).

Flash still doesn't work.

Unfortunately, it has only simple Flash support (playing some very simple Flash videos) - nothing as sophisticated as more elaborate Flash stuff utilizing advanced stuff. AFAIK (and according to the author of Minimo), Macromedia (Adobe) hasn't published the API of their PIE/IEM Flash plug-in; this is why no third-party browsers (Opera Mobile, NetFront (NF has a Flash implementation but it's certainly worse than that of Adobe), Minimo, Thunderhawk) can use their plug-ins. (This problem has also been discussed in this article (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=402005).)

On long pages, the information stays all corrupted at the end.

Can you give me some URL's of these pages? I've been testing Opera on WM2003SE (on a Pocket Loox 720) and WM2003 (on an iPAQ 2210) and, unlike with 8.5 b2 (where this problem was indeed a real pain in the back), have never run into this problem at all. It may be an x50v + WM2003SE-related problem.

Regarding the Java - Javascript thing, then see the 7th post in this thread.

Thanks a million for the .ini editing tips and cache moving tips etc :)

Regarding URLs, then: http://pocketpcmag.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17921

Also nearly any of the longer pages on Google Groups. Such as: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.internet.search-engines/browse_thread/thread/325a2874dd2db21c/5c7840136416962b?lnk=st&amp;q=bmw&amp;rnum=18#5c7840136416962b

Menneisyys
06-01-2006, 03:03 PM
Regarding URLs, then: http://pocketpcmag.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17921

Also nearly any of the longer pages on Google Groups. Such as: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.internet.search-engines/browse_thread/thread/325a2874dd2db21c/5c7840136416962b?lnk=st&amp;q=bmw&amp;rnum=18#5c7840136416962b

Thanks!

These pages (as with all the long pages I’ve tested the trial version of Opera on) are all rendered perfectly by both my WM2003 QVGA iPAQ 2210 and WM2003SE VGA Pocket Loox 720 as can be seen in the following screenshots:

http://www.winmobiletech.com/062006Opera86/PL720WM2003SEGoogleGroup.bmp.png
http://www.winmobiletech.com/062006Opera86/2210WM2003GoogleGroup.bmp.png

http://www.winmobiletech.com/062006Opera86/PL720WM2003SEStorageCardOptimization.bmp.png
http://www.winmobiletech.com/062006Opera86/2210WM2003StorageCardOptimization.bmp.png

That is, I’m absolutely sure this bug is x50v + WM2003SE specific. What ROM version do you have?

alese
06-01-2006, 05:51 PM
You don't need to pay for the trial version of the final 8.6 - it'll reset the counter and will start counting back from 30 days.

The final version is MUCH better than beta2 - it's certainly worth upgrading to the new trial.

I installed 8.6 on my Universal 30 minutes ago, and I can say that this is a keeper. I'm registering it.
One question, apparently the trial version does not have the identify as Desktop option.

Menneisyys
06-01-2006, 08:34 PM
You don't need to pay for the trial version of the final 8.6 - it'll reset the counter and will start counting back from 30 days.

The final version is MUCH better than beta2 - it's certainly worth upgrading to the new trial.

I installed 8.6 on my Universal 30 minutes ago, and I can say that this is a keeper. I'm registering it.
One question, apparently the trial version does not have the identify as Desktop option.


It does, as can also be seen in here:

http://www.winmobiletech.com/062006Opera86/OperaMobDesktopView.bmp.png

Menneisyys
06-01-2006, 08:50 PM
BTW, I've mentioned several times how good the JavaScript support in Opera Mobile is (standards compliance is THE killer point in Opera Mobile, in addition to pure speed). Yes, even gmail autocomplete works, as can be seen in here:

http://www.winmobiletech.com/062006Opera86/OperaMob86AddressAutocompleteWorks.bmp.png

(Please note that you will need to enter one letter more and, then, delete the last letter with the Backspace key for this to work. Otherwise, it works flawlessly.)

netboy
06-01-2006, 09:40 PM
I don't want to install the final version of the browser, before I get some solid information if it's worth upgrading from Beta2.
I just don't want to pay for the browser if it's not really neccessary...

opera mobile 8.60 SHOULD NOT be called final version! it still has bugs in it! when u click on something in a web page, there is a 1 second lag before the "info bar" appear at the bottom of screen. also it still cant display ameritrade.com (when u logged on) correctly.

Darius Wey
06-02-2006, 04:09 AM
opera mobile 8.60 SHOULD NOT be called final version! it still has bugs in it! when u click on something in a web page, there is a 1 second lag before the "info bar" appear at the bottom of screen. also it still cant display ameritrade.com (when u logged on) correctly.

Bugs exist - whether an application is still in beta or publicly released. If one were to adopt your mentality, there'd never be a final version.

In Opera's defence, I'm going to say that this is a fine product. Sure, there's always room for improvement, but that's what a "next version" is for, right?

morpheus
06-02-2006, 04:20 AM
I was running beta 2 happily and with no problems on my IPAQ H2210 (WM2003), however since upgrading to the final (trial) version i can no longer access some pages unless I disable javascript. The page starts to load and then just freezes with a connecting message.

Examples of sites that worked with the Opera 8.5 beta 2 build but not with 8.60 final include:

http://www.teamtalk.com/
http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/

plus other sites that require registration. I uninstalled the beta with the add/remove applet and then deleted the \application data\opera directory plus the directory I installed it in on my SD card only saving my bookmarks file in the opera6.adr file. i then installed the latest release version using the msi installer to the SD card.

I posted about this on the feedback thread in the opera forums (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=140867) but nobody else seems to be reporting the problem on there. Is anyone else having similar problems?


Morpheus

alese
06-02-2006, 07:27 AM
You don't need to pay for the trial version of the final 8.6 - it'll reset the counter and will start counting back from 30 days.

The final version is MUCH better than beta2 - it's certainly worth upgrading to the new trial.

I installed 8.6 on my Universal 30 minutes ago, and I can say that this is a keeper. I'm registering it.
One question, apparently the trial version does not have the identify as Desktop option.

It does, as can also be seen in here:

[img]

My problem is that under settings on General Tab I don't have option to Identify as Desktop, it's only Identify as Handheld device...

Menneisyys
06-02-2006, 11:34 AM
You don't need to pay for the trial version of the final 8.6 - it'll reset the counter and will start counting back from 30 days.

The final version is MUCH better than beta2 - it's certainly worth upgrading to the new trial.

I installed 8.6 on my Universal 30 minutes ago, and I can say that this is a keeper. I'm registering it.
One question, apparently the trial version does not have the identify as Desktop option.

It does, as can also be seen in here:



My problem is that under settings on General Tab I don't have option to Identify as Desktop, it's only Identify as Handheld device...

There is a drop-down list in there - just click it as can be seen in here:

[img]http://www.winmobiletech.com/062006Opera86/OpMobDesktopDev.bmp.png

Menneisyys
06-02-2006, 11:38 AM
BTW, I've just posted my thoughts on the difference between the new NetFront and Opera here (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=870&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1).

Note that it's NOT an one-on-one review &amp; comparison but a bird's view comparison.

I've also collected the links to the most informative Opera Mobile threads in there.

Deus
06-02-2006, 11:54 AM
Sorry to brin the bad news but this version of opera is NOT faster thatn PIE. on a 6700 through EVDo I am seeing a difference of 240k


PIE 580k
Opera 340k


Although I like Opera better it is NOT faster. I tested with 600k burst. You can test here:


www.dslreports.com/mspeed

alese
06-02-2006, 12:02 PM
My problem is that under settings on General Tab I don't have option to Identify as Desktop, it's only Identify as Handheld device...

There is a drop-down list in there - just click it as can be seen in here:

http://www.winmobiletech.com/062006Opera86/OpMobDesktopDev.bmp.png

That is exactly the thing, on my device there is only Handheld device in the drop list...
I guess I'll try to reinstall the SW.

netboy
06-02-2006, 01:04 PM
opera mobile 8.60 SHOULD NOT be called final version! it still has bugs in it! when u click on something in a web page, there is a 1 second lag before the "info bar" appear at the bottom of screen. also it still cant display ameritrade.com (when u logged on) correctly.

Bugs exist - whether an application is still in beta or publicly released. If one were to adopt your mentality, there'd never be a final version.

In Opera's defence, I'm going to say that this is a fine product. Sure, there's always room for improvement, but that's what a "next version" is for, right?


if that' the case, what is the point of BETA?? y not just slap FINAL on the 8.50beta 2 too!?

Darius Wey
06-02-2006, 01:43 PM
if that' the case, what is the point of BETA?? y not just slap FINAL on the 8.50beta 2 too!?

You have to understand that a beta, while it exists for people to request new features and report bugs, has limitations. The variable user and device population allows a development team to work with testers in identifying and rectifying universal and unique bugs, but there will still be a thousand other scenarios that simply go unchecked - because it's not feasible to cover every single possible usage scenario.

Even some of the biggest applications and platforms (e.g. Windows and Mac OS) ship publicly with a few bugs here and there. They get fixed, and then new ones surface. It's a vicious cycle that you, as an end-user, will never be able to escape.

You have to accept the fact that Opera has done their best to iron out some of the most widely reported problems during the beta. Other minor ones probably still exist, but behind the scenes, the development team may already be working on eradicating them in time for the next update.

MikeB
06-02-2006, 03:14 PM
Although I like Opera better it is NOT faster. I tested with 600k burst. You can test here:


www.dslreports.com/mspeed

That looks like a bandwidth test, not a test for how fast a browser can render a page. But that is a great link; I am off to test my EDGE vs GPRS speeds.... thanks!

Menneisyys
06-02-2006, 03:25 PM
Sorry to brin the bad news but this version of opera is NOT faster thatn PIE. on a 6700 through EVDo I am seeing a difference of 240k


PIE 580k
Opera 340k


Although I like Opera better it is NOT faster. I tested with 600k burst. You can test here:


www.dslreports.com/mspeed

it should be pointed out, however, that resource dl speed is just one component having effect on the rendering speed. It is the html parsing and rendering, done after fetching the resource, that is MUCH slower in PIE than in Opera. dslspeed only measures the pure resourche fetch speed.

i also recommend my benchmark results p. they clearly show this.

markh1
06-02-2006, 05:37 PM
Does Opera Mobile go through a proxy to compress content before it gets to the device like Opera Mini? It makes Opera Mini faster and cheaper.

Lost Cause
06-02-2006, 05:43 PM
if that' the case, what is the point of BETA?? y not just slap FINAL on the 8.50beta 2 too!?

You have to understand that a beta, while it exists for people to request new features and report bugs, has limitations. The variable user and device population allows a development team to work with testers in identifying and rectifying universal and unique bugs, but there will still be a thousand other scenarios that simply go unchecked - because it's not feasible to cover every single possible usage scenario.

Even some of the biggest applications and platforms (e.g. Windows and Mac OS) ship publicly with a few bugs here and there. They get fixed, and then new ones surface. It's a vicious cycle that you, as an end-user, will never be able to escape.

You have to accept the fact that Opera has done their best to iron out some of the most widely reported problems during the beta. Other minor ones probably still exist, but behind the scenes, the development team may already be working on eradicating them in time for the next update.

I understand perfectly your point, but disagree in this particular instance.

Take for example the long page corruption thing, that happens on my X50v. This was widely reported across various groups. It makes Opera totally unusable on longer pages - such as page 4 of this very thread. In fact, it`s a major problem for forum viewing full-stop. I`ve had to jump out of Opera to PIE to just read this thread.

So, the Opera team know about this problem, and it has been widely reported by other users. There`s a longish public beta and then along comes their `final` edition, and the *exact* same problem remains. Fair play if they would have added a footnote to their `Buy` button : This product renders long pages unreadable on X50v and whatever. But they didn`t.

Lucilky (despite my brain having more than enough info to assume the long-page problem couldn`t have slipped under Opera`s radar), I d/l the trial first. Only to find that problem ignored - and worse - unreported by the vendor.

I find that an affront, and not nearly in the same ball-park as obscure little bugs that might come out of the woodwork because no test can be fully exhaustive.

:)

Lost Cause
06-02-2006, 05:52 PM
My problem is that under settings on General Tab I don't have option to Identify as Desktop, it's only Identify as Handheld device...

There is a drop-down list in there - just click it as can be seen in here:

http://www.winmobiletech.com/062006Opera86/OpMobDesktopDev.bmp.png

That is exactly the thing, on my device there is only Handheld device in the drop list...
I guess I'll try to reinstall the SW.

Similarly, I only have `Handheld device` available in the drop-down box too - on the trial version. Though I have no doubt it exists on the pay version (which I`ll not be buying until the X50v long page corrupt is fixed - the other faults I can live with, thanks to Menniesyys).

maikii
06-02-2006, 06:03 PM
I don't want to install the final version of the browser, before I get some solid information if it's worth upgrading from Beta2.


Well, you don't really have the option of continuing to use Beta 2. It doesn't work any more. The beta has expired, as of yesterday, June 1, and does not function. (Perhaps you could back date your PPC or something to get it to work, then your PPC would always have the wrong date, and you'd have to re-backdate it every time its date crossed 6/1/2006!)

Menneisyys
06-02-2006, 06:58 PM
Similarly, I only have `Handheld device` available in the drop-down box too - on the trial version. Though I have no doubt it exists on the pay version (which I`ll not be buying until the X50v long page corrupt is fixed - the other faults I can live with, thanks to Menniesyys).

I too have the trial version on my test Pocket PC's. All my Pocket PC's (Wizard, 2210, PL720, x51v, hx4700 wm5) display both items in the drop-down list. Dunno what the problem is caused by...

Menneisyys
06-02-2006, 07:02 PM
I don't want to install the final version of the browser, before I get some solid information if it's worth upgrading from Beta2.


Well, you don't really have the option of continuing to use Beta 2. It doesn't work any more. The beta has expired, as of yesterday, June 1, and does not function. (Perhaps you could back date your PPC or something to get it to work, then your PPC would always have the wrong date, and you'd have to re-backdate it every time its date crossed 6/1/2006!)

Furthermore, there's really no point in sticking to beta2 and not upgrading to the trial of the final. The latter is MUCH better and much more bug-free than beta2.

Menneisyys
06-02-2006, 07:07 PM
Does Opera Mobile go through a proxy to compress content before it gets to the device like Opera Mini? It makes Opera Mini faster and cheaper.

Nope, it does't. However, you can always use Toonel, Skweezer or MobileLeap to heavily compress your Web traffic - for free. Then, you will get even better results than with Opera Mini - Opera Mobile is far superior to Opera Mini.

You may want to check out http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=360414 here at PPCT for more info.

Menneisyys
06-02-2006, 07:18 PM
if that' the case, what is the point of BETA?? y not just slap FINAL on the 8.50beta 2 too!?

You have to understand that a beta, while it exists for people to request new features and report bugs, has limitations. The variable user and device population allows a development team to work with testers in identifying and rectifying universal and unique bugs, but there will still be a thousand other scenarios that simply go unchecked - because it's not feasible to cover every single possible usage scenario.

Even some of the biggest applications and platforms (e.g. Windows and Mac OS) ship publicly with a few bugs here and there. They get fixed, and then new ones surface. It's a vicious cycle that you, as an end-user, will never be able to escape.

You have to accept the fact that Opera has done their best to iron out some of the most widely reported problems during the beta. Other minor ones probably still exist, but behind the scenes, the development team may already be working on eradicating them in time for the next update.

I understand perfectly your point, but disagree in this particular instance.

Take for example the long page corruption thing, that happens on my X50v. This was widely reported across various groups. It makes Opera totally unusable on longer pages - such as page 4 of this very thread. In fact, it`s a major problem for forum viewing full-stop. I`ve had to jump out of Opera to PIE to just read this thread.

So, the Opera team know about this problem, and it has been widely reported by other users. There`s a longish public beta and then along comes their `final` edition, and the *exact* same problem remains. Fair play if they would have added a footnote to their `Buy` button : This product renders long pages unreadable on X50v and whatever. But they didn`t.

Lucilky (despite my brain having more than enough info to assume the long-page problem couldn`t have slipped under Opera`s radar), I d/l the trial first. Only to find that problem ignored - and worse - unreported by the vendor.

I find that an affront, and not nearly in the same ball-park as obscure little bugs that might come out of the woodwork because no test can be fully exhaustive.

:)

I disagree. Everybody knew about the WM2003(SE) long page bug - for example, I've emphasized it being a showstopper in my first review of b2 right after the latter was released.

The Opera people did fix the bug - in a general sense. I've thoroughly tested a lot of long pages on my WM2003(SE) devices and have never encountered any bugs/problems (except for a bug with Tero Lehto's blog, but that's also causing problems to the desktop Opera as well).

It's easy to assume the Opera people didn't test Opera final on the x50v because they did assume it wouldn't be buggy either - after all, it's not buggy on other WM2003(SE) devices - and isn't buggy on the x51v either. I even assume they didn't know about the bug at all before the public feedback - they thought the program works just great on all WM2003(SE) devices and wouldn't have thought one WM2003(SE) model will still have problems.

Had they known about the x50v bug, they surely wouldn't have released the app. This bug has resulted in a lot of bad feedback from x50v users, which can very easily make owners of other PPC's think the app sucks.

Software testing requires a LOT of time and effort, in addition to, of course, hunting for devices. It's very hard to thoroughly test a software product on all popular Pocket PC's. Show me a software developer that has all the current and (not very outdated - the x50v is still in this category) non-current Pocket PC's (and also thoroughly tests their titles on them).

(BTW, x50v users seem to be overly unlucky with new browsers. Many versions of Minimo, while running on other Pocket PC models, didn't even start on the x50v.)

davea0511
06-02-2006, 08:35 PM
... I'm going to say that this is a fine product. Sure, there's always room for improvement, but that's what a "next version" is for, right?
You work for Microsoft?
:wink:

Truthfully I think "next versions" should be for added functionality, not to fix previously existing bugs. "Final Versions" are those versions where all the blatant bugs are fixed, as a single piece of software should have many "final versions", each one having expanded functionality from the previous versions.

JMac
06-02-2006, 11:05 PM
OK, before I download this onto my device, two quick questions: Any known issues with the Cingular 8125 (original Cingular ROM - no hacks)

Can it be installed to a storage card? Or, if not, can at least the cache and history files be stored on a storage card?

Thanks.

Menneisyys
06-02-2006, 11:11 PM
OK, before I download this onto my device, two quick questions: Any known issues with the Cingular 8125 (original Cingular ROM - no hacks)

Can it be installed to a storage card? Or, if not, can at least the cache and history files be stored on a storage card?

Thanks.

1. dont know of any issues
2. yes for all your questions

morpheus
06-02-2006, 11:54 PM
I was running beta 2 happily and with no problems on my IPAQ H2210 (WM2003), however since upgrading to the final (trial) version i can no longer access some pages unless I disable javascript. The page starts to load and then just freezes with a connecting message.

Examples of sites that worked with the Opera 8.5 beta 2 build but not with 8.60 final include:

http://www.teamtalk.com/
http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/

plus other sites that require registration. I uninstalled the beta with the add/remove applet and then deleted the \application data\opera directory plus the directory I installed it in on my SD card only saving my bookmarks file in the opera6.adr file. i then installed the latest release version using the msi installer to the SD card.

I posted about this on the feedback thread in the opera forums (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=140867) but nobody else seems to be reporting the problem on there. Is anyone else having similar problems?

Ok the plot thickens. Reinstalled 8.5b2 and set my clock back two days and sure enough the pages loaded. Reinstalled the final version and they froze again. Now I am on a wireless network before was Cable modem via USB Activesync and GPRS via bluetooth and the final version is loading everything via .Wi-Fi.

Now I am confused???

alese
06-03-2006, 12:44 AM
Similarly, I only have `Handheld device` available in the drop-down box too - on the trial version. Though I have no doubt it exists on the pay version (which I`ll not be buying until the X50v long page corrupt is fixed - the other faults I can live with, thanks to Menniesyys).

I too have the trial version on my test Pocket PC's. All my Pocket PC's (Wizard, 2210, PL720, x51v, hx4700 wm5) display both items in the drop-down list. Dunno what the problem is caused by...

I had trial installed before, and there was no Desktop. After registering the software it still did not show anything else than Handheld device...
Then I uninstalled the program and reseted my Universal. Reinstalled again, still no Desktop.
Both times I did an installation from CAB, so maybe (very unlikely but still) desktop installation could be different? Or maybe I'll need to clean up everything (not only uninstall, but also registry and all remaining folders)?
I guess I'll have to play around over the weekend...

JMac
06-03-2006, 04:26 AM
I just installed the trial version and I have both Handheld and Desktop available in that combo box. Cool!

However after about a half hour of browsing and feeling out the new browser, it has terminated unexpectedly twice now.

The last time it happened the browser would not open at all. This isn't good.

I'll soft reset it and see if that helps - I bet it will. While I had plenty of available memory showing, I suspect that running Opera for the first time may have gobbled up a lot of addressable memory. Soft reset should fix that for now. Has anyone else seen similar behavior?

BTW, Cingular 8125, running the 8.6 trial from the MiniSD card.

Darius Wey
06-03-2006, 04:30 AM
Truthfully I think "next versions" should be for added functionality, not to fix previously existing bugs. "Final Versions" are those versions where all the blatant bugs are fixed, as a single piece of software should have many "final versions", each one having expanded functionality from the previous versions.

Fair point, and there's nothing wrong with adding functionality in future versions. In fact, that's something I'd love to see - and heck, it already happens. :)

But as Menneisyys and I have pointed out, it's just about impossible to test every usage scenario with every device. So, to think that it's actually possible to eradicate every bug (whether universal or unique to a device) is a dream.

Menneisyys
06-03-2006, 06:44 AM
I'll soft reset it and see if that helps - I bet it will. While I had plenty of available memory showing, I suspect that running Opera for the first time may have gobbled up a lot of addressable memory. Soft reset should fix that for now. Has anyone else seen similar behavior?

In some oher Opera=related threads, this problem has also been pointed out. Try just closing all the other programs (especially resource-hungry ones like Qmail) before starting Opera.

As far as locking up is concerned, I haven't ever encountered this on my five test Pocket PC's, running the trial version. There is a slight bug, however, I'll soon post a quick bugfix (it's really easy and fixes the problem) really soon about. The situation may be the same in your case too.

mike1727
06-05-2006, 10:30 AM
I can't get it working properly on a MDA compact with WM2003. It worked fine for about 20 minutes, then slowed to a crawl before finally freezing cmopletely and forcing me to soft reset. Thinkning that the I'd used up too much internal memory by installing to the device I tried installing to the memory card, but no improvement...which is a great shame since I was very impressed with Opera while it worked.

I'm assuming the MDA's processor isn't up to the job, but if anyone can point out where I'm going wrong I'd be very grateful.

JMac
06-05-2006, 02:38 PM
OK. After just a couple of days, I'm in love!

While it does tend to hog a bit of memory, the page rendering is phenomenal. Absolutely the best browsing experience I have had on a small device in at least 12 years of browsing on handheld devices! (Well, OK - maybe 6 or 8 years browsing the Internet... but 12 years on handhelds - think MessagePad 100!)

And...tabbed browsing. That really works, similar to Opera on the desktop PC.

Opera happens to be my overall favorite browser on my PC, though I use Firefox more - mainly because Opera will not allow the use of Roboform or any similar password program. (Their wand doesn't quite cut it for me!)

But with Opera for PPC I can use TapText for basically the same purpose that I use Roboform on my PC.

Really nice...

alese
06-08-2006, 08:56 PM
Similarly, I only have `Handheld device` available in the drop-down box too - on the trial version. Though I have no doubt it exists on the pay version (which I`ll not be buying until the X50v long page corrupt is fixed - the other faults I can live with, thanks to Menniesyys).

I too have the trial version on my test Pocket PC's. All my Pocket PC's (Wizard, 2210, PL720, x51v, hx4700 wm5) display both items in the drop-down list. Dunno what the problem is caused by...

I had trial installed before, and there was no Desktop. After registering the software it still did not show anything else than Handheld device...
Then I uninstalled the program and reseted my Universal. Reinstalled again, still no Desktop.
Both times I did an installation from CAB, so maybe (very unlikely but still) desktop installation could be different? Or maybe I'll need to clean up everything (not only uninstall, but also registry and all remaining folders)?
I guess I'll have to play around over the weekend...

Well I have solved the missing Identify as Desktop.
There is nothing really missing. My problem is just that since I'm running my Universal in TrueVGA, the drop down for Identify as is only one. Of curse the second just does not show, but can be accessed just by selecting drop down and then use cursor to display the second option...

Menneisyys
06-09-2006, 07:45 AM
I can't get it working properly on a MDA compact with WM2003. It worked fine for about 20 minutes, then slowed to a crawl before finally freezing cmopletely and forcing me to soft reset. Thinkning that the I'd used up too much internal memory by installing to the device I tried installing to the memory card, but no improvement...which is a great shame since I was very impressed with Opera while it worked.

I'm assuming the MDA's processor isn't up to the job, but if anyone can point out where I'm going wrong I'd be very grateful.

Welcome to PPCT :)

I don't think it's the CPU. I think there is some software incompatibility in the background OR the usual driver memory shortage under WM2003SE (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=49222). Try disabling all your Today plug-ins, Bluetooth, reset your Pocket PC and try again - without starting any apps before. If this time it'll run OK, then, it was the driver memory.

juni
06-09-2006, 12:46 PM
Has anyone figured out how to get it to scroll by page instead of link-by-link?

Menneisyys
06-09-2006, 01:07 PM
Has anyone figured out how to get it to scroll by page instead of link-by-link?

yeah, the same input.ini hack works as in the beta versions. cant give you a link to my vtutorial now -typing this on my Wizard-; i think i have crossposted it here to PPCT too.

vanisher
10-28-2007, 09:09 PM
My problem is that under settings on General Tab I don't have option to Identify as Desktop, it's only Identify as Handheld device...

Hi,

What is the difference between setting is as "handheld" vs. "desktop?" Does it have anything to do with how Opera Mobile renders webpages? If so, does the handheld/desktop function somehow work in conjunction with the dsiplay as desktop/fit to screen setting?

JMac
10-29-2007, 04:41 AM
My problem is that under settings on General Tab I don't have option to Identify as Desktop, it's only Identify as Handheld device...

Hi,

What is the difference between setting is as "handheld" vs. "desktop?" Does it have anything to do with how Opera Mobile renders webpages? If so, does the handheld/desktop function somehow work in conjunction with the dsiplay as desktop/fit to screen setting?

AFAIK, it is only yo identify the type of browser to the web page/web site. Sites usually use this info to determine what version of page to serve up to that browser. Like they may have a mobile version of their pages to serve to any mobile device browser.

Occasionally you will find that you cannot login to certain sites when your browser ia identified as "Handheld". Changing it to "Desktop" might allow you full access that was denied to Handheld browser. Usually Opera will render the page to fit either way.

This feature is sometimes referred to as User Agent.