HP Upping 2790's ROM?

[Jon Westfall]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/fr/fr/ho/WF06a/22239-22245-22245-22245-298101-12289672.html' target='_blank'>http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/fr/f...1-12289672.html</a><br /><br /></div><i>"We know that HP quietly updated the hx2190 and hx2490 to 192MB ROM. Could a similar move be taking place for the iPAQ hx2790? It currently comes with 192MB ROM but Mobinaute found that the HP France specs now show it with 320MB ROM as well as 64MB RAM. With 192MB ROM, you have up to 144 MB of user available persistent storage memory. With 320MB ROM, that jumsp up to 256MB."</i><br /><br /><img src=http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/ipaq-hx2790_190x170.jpg><br /><br />According to various HP worldwide sites, the ROM increase for this unit is coming. While I don't think this will stop us from needing memory cards, I do think the extra wiggle room will be nice for those of us who install apps and prefer to keep them "on device" instead of on a card. More room for my horrible Phatpad doodles as well ;)

[Darius Wey]

I was wondering what would happen to the hx2790 after the ROM boost (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=47826) for the hx2190 and hx2490. The biometric reader and slightly faster clock speed didn't seem worth the extra $100, though the extra memory makes it worth it again. :)

[a4ace]

When I upgraded my hx2750 to WM5, it was recommended in the forums to install as little as possible to the ROM to prevent the compaction thread from slowing down the pocketpc. Wouldn't a bigger ROM make the problem worse?

[6ftunder]

It looks like HP took the memory away again in france. The site is back to 256MB.

The Canadian site lists the old memory on the overview page and the new memory on the specs page.
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ca/en/sm/WF05a/12139188-12139190-12139190-12139190-12139192-12289784.html
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ca/en/sm/WF06a/12139188-12139190-12139190-12139190-12139192-12289784.html

The USA site has no mention at all.

HP is confused (theres a shock)

[billpool]

It looks like HP took the memory away again in france. The site is back to 256MB.

The Canadian site lists the old memory on the overview page and the new memory on the specs page.
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ca/en/sm/WF05a/12139188-12139190-12139190-12139190-12139192-12289784.html
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ca/en/sm/WF06a/12139188-12139190-12139190-12139190-12139192-12289784.html

The USA site has no mention at all.

HP is confused (theres a shock)

HI:

FWIW The British site shows the old rom specs, BUT, if you go to their documents page and download their 2 page .pdf specs file, it shows the rom upgrade numbers...whatup?

:?:
BTW today the USA site shows the rom upgrade numbers...Was sorely tempted to click the order button and see just how much of the software on my 2750 won't STILL work.

:devilboy:

[nitestrike]

Now only if they would use a VGA screen, and possibly GPS! 8)

[jeffkelly]

When I upgraded my hx2750 to WM5, it was recommended in the forums to install as little as possible to the ROM to prevent the compaction thread from slowing down the pocketpc. Wouldn't a bigger ROM make the problem worse?

Does anyone have an opinion on this question? Does the hx2790 have the same compaction problem as an upgraded PDA (like the hx4705)? I ask becasue the hx2790 comes w/ WM5, while the hx4705 came w/ WM2003SE and HP is now offering a debilitating WM5 upgrade.

[nitestrike]

If I remember the specs correctly, correct me if I'm wrong, the devices shipping with WM5 have chips that allow for good read and write times (NAND Flash Memory). Where the devices that were upgraded to WM5 were shipped with chips that allowed for good read times, but did not need as fast write times (NOR Flash Memory). This change is due to the new Persistance Memeory feature that is a part of WM5. This is the simple or least technical description.

MS Detailed Explanation (http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2006/03/16/552996.aspx)

[jeffkelly]

Yeah, that MSDN article on compaction is pretty popular for those trying to understand why an upgraded hx4705 is so slow.

Both hx2790 and hx4705 have a PXA270-624 processor. Are they the same chip or did Intel make a NAND and a NOR version? I can tell you the upgraded hx4705 is unusable....I wonder if the 2790 has the same problem since it has the same processor?

[nitestrike]

Yeah, that MSDN article on compaction is pretty popular for those trying to understand why an upgraded hx4705 is so slow.

Both hx2790 and hx4705 have a PXA270-624 processor. Are they the same chip or did Intel make a NAND and a NOR version? I can tell you the upgraded hx4705 is unusable....I wonder if the 2790 has the same problem since it has the same processor?

The PXA270-624 processor is the CPU, and does not have a direct effect on the compact thread issue that is talked about, other than like any thing else the amount of processing that might be required. The NAND and NOR memory is the ROM where all the files are kept and is where the updates installed, or in the case of Windows Mobile 5 (WM5) upgrades where it placed.

Here is how it works, in PocketPC 2003SE (PPC2K3SE) the ROM was split into two distinct sections usually, the place where the core Windows mobile system was kept what came on the device or any updates received from the manufacture. The other part usually specified as a File Store, could be "described" as an internal flash memory card. Neither of these would lose information if power was lost. Also with PPC2K3SE, and those PPC OSes before it, the RAM was also split into two sections. One was for installing and storing apps/files, and the second part (like the RAM in regular computers) was where the programs and system ran. With this type of design the devices did not have to write/erase nearly as much data in the ROM and thus used the more economical NOR Flash Memory. Which you find after reading the MSDN article can take 2 second "write" data.

Now fast forward to WM5, Microsoft has introduced a new feature called Persistent Memory, which if I recall was something they had had in there PPC Phone edition devices already, and is the reason that this compacting issues has come up, be it for the iPAQ hx47xx, the iPAQ hx2xxx, or the Axim v50. Persistent Memory totally reworked how the ROM and RAM were used in a device, it would be quite comparable to how regular desktop or laptop computer's memory worked. With this design the ROM and RAM no longer were split into parts, the ROM would be analogous to a Hardrive and the RAM would be comparable to RAM in a regular computer. A big reason behind this design was that the device could loose power (a hard rest should not take place) and you would not lose you data or applications that installed. So with this new Persistent Memory design the ROM was having more data written and erased more often which dictated that it needed NAND Flash Memory that could not only read fast, but also "write" quickly as well, much more so than the 2 seconds for the NOR Flash memory.

As for the hx4705 being unusable, after searching high and low and gleaning information from here and there, or is it hither and yond, no matter what I found to be the best solution and find my hx4705 quite usable is to do the following.

Make sure to keep as much ROM free as possible
Only install apps that are used for the system into ROM
(this would be items such as SPB PocketPlus, SPB Diary, and Oz_VGA)
With in reason keep it connected to AC, especially if it is not being used.
(This way the CPU and other components will not hindered by power saving features)

Make sure to give a while, possibly up to a couple of days, to get everything compacted after making these changes. I have also heard that it works better to reflash the device with the WM5 upgrade, and after installing the upgrade to let it sit for a couple of hours at the first screen to let an initial compacting get completed.

I hope this makes things clearer, and am glad to have been of help.

[jeffkelly]

Isn't the StrataFlash in the CPU or is it a separate chip? If the latter, I fully understand (I'm an electrical engineer). I always thought the two were integrated into the same chip.

***Edit*** The PXA270 chip is a stand-alone CPU, while the PXA271 and PXA272 have embedded StrataFlash.

Makes me feel better...think I'll call HP.

[nitestrike]

Thanks for the update.