Microsoft's Ideal Lifestyle Ultra-Mobile PC

[Jonathon Watkins]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.engadget.com/2006/02/02/microsoft-said-to-issue-specs-for-ultramobile-lifestyle-pcs/' target='_blank'>http://www.engadget.com/2006/02/02/...-lifestyle-pcs/</a><br /><br /></div><i>"Word is trickling out that Microsoft has treated attendees at its Mobile Platform Division partner briefing to its vision of the next generation of "ultraportable lifestyle PCs." . . . Bill Mitchell, Corporate Vice President of the Mobile Platform Division, showed a slide that outlined specs for the new PC category, including that it be wearable, always on, no larger than 10-inches, connected through 3G networks, pen-based, and have a suggested retail price of $500 or less. Sounds like something of a cross between Windows Mobile smartphones and tablet PCs (sort of like the Ruby concept PC, pictured)"</i> <br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/Ruby.jpg" /> <br /><br />OK, file this one as 'sounds very interesting; remind me again in a year or so'. This puppy is also meant to be running a full-blown version Windows, i.e. it's a slimmed down tablet rather than a beefed up 'mobile' device. No doubt we'll get devices that can do as Microsoft want and at the US$500 level, but when? Does this sound like a good concept to you? If you had an 'ultraportable lifestyle PC' like this, how would you use it?

[fireflyrsmr]

if it is always on then it seems good to me. That is the key to portable computing. It's a team sport device. I find it embarassing if I have to fumble around with the machine trying to get to information while someone is waiting for me in a meeting or in the hallway discussion. the price seems impossible to me. If I were the dualcor people it would scare me.

also on that same site was a clip about apple patents on a gui for a tablet. I'm surprised someone didn't post that on the front page. It was irritating to see that Jobs had put his own name against some of the patent information on a machine without a keyboard - the infamous quote comes to mind on why he killed my beloved Newton - something like real computors have keyboards. :evil:

[Eriq Cook]

I think this would appeal mostly to certain vertical markets, like the Handheld PC did. I think the functionality is too much for too small of a device to appeal to the average consumer IMO.

[SassKwatch]

An OQO w/o a hard drive.(??)

[biglouis]

From a purely technical point of view I don't see how Microsoft can avoid moving in the direction of a full implementation of XP on a PPC form factor.

As solid state storage capacities increase in density without increasing in size it won't be long before 10GB is available either in SD card format or in micro drives. I'd estimate that is a tipping point at which you might as well have a full PC based operating system on your PPC rather than the artificially brain dead version we have now.

I suspect the only reason we do not have it today (4GB would be sufficient if you devoted most of it to OS) is so that Microsoft can protect its desktop applications market. The current artificially high pricing for Office products means you could not deliver them on a PPC for under $500 and provide what most people want which is full MS Office apps functionality. Of course, the joke is, that 3rd parties are providing full Office App functionality for both PPC and the Palm platform, if you want it now.

Once Microsoft accept the inevitable that to remain competitive they have to lower prices then I would not be surprised if they don't move rapidly to implement one operating system and one set of applications across all computing devices from handhelds to servers.

LouisB

[Mark Johnson]

biglouis is dead on here. Microsoft has been keeping the PPC down with a lot of little inadequacies for quite a long time. Do they really want a flawless "round trip" experience for .doc or .xls file? I doubt it. When the PPC can do exactly what an XP desktop does, they get cannibalization not extension.

I think they're happy with the PPC as the "dumb little brother" of XP always at the end of an ActiveSync leash. First you buy an Dimension desktop from Dell and they get probably $50 on the XP license, then you buy an Axim and they get another what $20 for the Windows Mobile license on that?

Bluetooth HID profile? Maybe we'll get around to that. USB host in the reference design? Not a chance! Sure Microsoft won't "stop" an OEM from bolting a solution onto the design, but they have clearly stopped taking effort to extend it themselves. Since they creamed Palm, there's no one keeping them honest anymore.

I can't wait to jump to a portable XP. I used to think Linux handhelds would be a solution, but that's gone nowhere.

Personally, I'm really tired of having to spend hours futzing around with Syware to make a DB that's got a fraction of what I can make Access do in ten minutes. That's not a criticism of Syware BTW, it's just the idiocy of having to build two completely different skill sets.

Hardware has improved to the point where this ought to work. What is taking so long?

[Nurhisham Hussein]

As solid state storage capacities increase in density without increasing in size it won't be long before 10GB is available either in SD card format or in micro drives. I'd estimate that is a tipping point at which you might as well have a full PC based operating system on your PPC rather than the artificially brain dead version we have now.


Hardware has improved to the point where this ought to work. What is taking so long?

Two things I can think of right off the bat - heat generation, and short battery life. Current handtops like the OQO and the Sony Vaio U suffer from both.

[Gerard]

The Toshiba e800 is about big enough; with average to large hands it's manageable, it'll fit in a decent sized pocket, and the screen's big enough for most work/browsing/reading. Slightly larger - possibly a 5" screen - would still be portable, but exclude a lot of users with smaller hands just because it'd be awkward.

A device on the scale they're talking about seems weird to me. Too big for Blackberry-like thumb typing, it nonetheless has a thumboard. Why? Not big enough to really rest on a forearm like a tablet but too big to use in the palm, how does one hold it? I like the scale, but it seems more a special applications appliance or an around-the-house gadget. Something for beside an armchair, or for semi-mobile workers in factory settings.

For general consumption, if you're going bigger than a large PPC, go tablet scale. Anything over about a 10" screen or below 5" seem convenient to use. 6" to 9" seem to make for awkward devices. Or am I full o' beans?

[ADBrown]

'Scuse me, Microsoft? Have you forgotten that you already have a device in this weight class, one that's smaller, cheaper, and more comfortable to use than any transplanted notebook? Idiots. A minitablet with a thumb keyboard... Hrmph. :evil:

[pocketpcadmirer]

Well, I would really love such a device. Then, I would be able to run full fledge, VS.net on it. I want to do programming on the move. Sadly there are no such apps for the ppc

Sunny :(

[M_M_F]

Dear all,

if you like the microsoft device, which will be released later, God knows when, did u notice or heard about the Dualcor device?

if not check this out: http://www.dualcor.com/

the device hosts a windows XP tablet edition and windows mobile 5, and u can switch between both of them with only 1 click, including a phone also. battery life is long and has lots of USB and other connectability ports. it has also a 40 GB hard drive and lots of other options. and its due in march 2006, around 1500 dollars : )...

http://www.dualcor.com/details.php
http://www.dualcor.com/specs.php
http://www.dualcor.com/connectivity.php
http://www.dualcor.com/controls.php

official press release:
http://www.dualcor.com/010406press.php

cnet review video link:

http://reviews.cnet.com/DualCor_cPC/4660-3121_7-6414596.html

i wanted a jasjar, but this thing is worth the wait.....i hope they put a camera in it : ) that would be the ultimate device to buy...
what do u think guys[/url]

[welmoed]

Something like this would be terrific for my business. I do custom window treatments, and often sketch designs for clients right on the site. I use software to create designs right on photos of the client's room. I would absolutely love to be able to take a digital picture, send it to this device, bring up the design software and create a window treatment right there, and when the client approves it, go to my estimating software, create the estimate, and print it to a wireless portable printer. Ah, bliss.

Sure, I could do most if not all of this on a laptop, but the kicker for me is the pen-based form factor. It would eliminate having to either clear space for a mouse, or having to use the annoying touch pad. This is what prevents me from taking my laptop on calls right now. It's just too inconvenient.

--Welmoed

[Jason Dunn]

biglouis is dead on here. Microsoft has been keeping the PPC down with a lot of little inadequacies for quite a long time. Do they really want a flawless "round trip" experience for .doc or .xls file? I doubt it. When the PPC can do exactly what an XP desktop does, they get cannibalization not extension.

You know, it's funny, I've brought this up with the Microsoft Mobile Devices people a few times and they always look at me like I'm speaking in an alien tongue. The idea that they're purposefully holding back the platform is completely abhorrent to them, and they always seem vaguely insulted when I mention the idea. I suppose it's understandable because they work hard to make it the best OS they can within their constraints of their limited resources (compared to, say, the Office or Windows team), and when someone comes along and says "You're not moving this slow on PURPOSE are you?" it can't help but sound insulting. ;-)

Windows Mobile will move into more of a phone-centric OS space, and these mini XP devices will replace our bigger, disconnected Pocket PCs that are more productivity oriented. Just watch.

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Dear all,

if you like the microsoft device, which will be released later, God knows when, did u notice or heard about the Dualcor device?


Yes we have, it was reported on this site not long ago. I reiterate my views on this - they (and I include DualCor, Microsoft and other handtop manufacturers in this) need to reduce heat generation and significantly increase battery life. The newer, lower power chips would help, as would higher density flash memory. DualCor has come up with a rather cumbersome solution to the issue of battery life by having a dual OS solution - not exactly everyone's cup of tea. I want long battery life on a handtop machine running a desktop class OS, and I want one that doesn't blow hot air all over my hands.

Edit: BTW, welcome to the forum!

[pocketpcadmirer]

Windows Mobile will move into more of a phone-centric OS space, and these mini XP devices will replace our bigger, disconnected Pocket PCs that are more productivity oriented. Just watch.

I fully agree with you. Indeed, microsoft has moved their minds to phone editions for sure. They seem to care less about pocket pc a lot. Just go to their windows mobile homepage and you'll see a treo 700W getting advertised. Few days ago it was there on their frontpage(microsoft.com) too. I've never seen a non-phone edition on their frontpage before. Odd, but, true.

Personally as a phone-edition user, I do miss a lot of features like normal 3.5' screen, dual slots, usb hosting and many other features. I still remember I had those things even on my old ipaq 2215(my dad has it now).

Well, thats how it goes :(

Sunny

[Kathy_Harris]

I'm a woman with relatively small hands and have no problem with my e805. Speaking of hands, it would have to be cold and dead before someone took my e805 out of them. A 5" screen would be nice.

And waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! if MS gets rid of the "red headed stepchild" Wince only devices (not convergent). I don't want a cell phone attached to it to suck out the battery life. I need my 5 or 6 hours so I can read my ebooks and carry the PPC around all day long.

[Gerard]

Kathy; Sorry if my hand size comment offended. Guess I'm thinking in terms of an extended battery... and my wife's comments that with that in place the e800 is way too big for her. She's not tiny, but at 5'2" and with smaller hands it's a bit obvious that something like a 2215 or similar scale of device would be big enough (if she had the slightest interest in a PPC).

I have the big blue Mugen 5800mAh battery and don't mind the size. The weight is a bit much, but if it bugs me at all I just remember the 18 hour battery life.

Which brings me back to the DualCor, the OQO, and this projected MS device. Have any of fhese folk approached Mugen? The 5800mAh battery they make for the Toshibas is virtually identical in outside dimensions (though with square-ish corners not nearly so rounded) to the Toshiba-made 2650mAh battery, but gets double the life. Their Li-Ion layering/optimisation/whatever renders famously long-lasting batteries. The 3800mAh for my Dell X5 offered 12 hours of use with a Symbol Wi-Fi CF for over a year before it began to fade, and now after 20 months it's still giving over 8 hours (non-Wi-Fi) with my brother using it. I'm guessing, plainly, but Mugen could probably add at least half again to.the up-time of an OQO.

[emuelle1]

I would love to see the gap bridged between my Axim x30 and my laptop. Pocket PCs have so much potential, and yet the OS and built in applications are weak. I'm taking Flexnet classes from university of Phoenix. Pocket IE can't access the online campus website, (neither can Minimo, version .12 of which seems to be useless on my device), Pocket Word is not getting anywhere NEAR one of my APA formatted double spaced paper, and don't even get me started on the uselessness of Adobe Acrobat for PPC, which doesn't ship with the Pocket PC but if it actually worked should be an indespensible app considering how prevalent .pdf documents are becomming.

I can't read my texts on it, even with a trial of Repligo I have a hard time keeping textbooks on my Pocket PC. I can't get to the Outlook Web Access and there's no Outlook Express, which I need for the class newsgroups.

I could buy Textmaker, but getting my wife to approve purchases for my "toys" can be a difficult process at times. To be fair, she has only my income to budget. It also seems grossly unfair to have to spend several hundred dollars on the device up front and them spend just as much on 3rd party applications to make it more than a glorified Palm Pilot/MP3 player. There are some great quality freeware applications out there, but they don't handle the more complicated tasks like document formatting.

I obviously can't carry my laptop everywhere, and it would be nice if my Pocket Pc could fill in the gaps. When I'm "watching" my wife shop for clothes I could get so much work done on my papers.

I would welcome a Pocket PC sized device with desktop capabilities

I love the fact that it fits in my pocket, is durable, and has a lot of potential.

[Jonathan1]

Goodbye Windows Mobile / Pocket PC. It’s been a good 6+ years. It’s going to be nice having a full blow (scaled down) version of Windows Vista (Most likely)

[SassKwatch]

When the PPC can do exactly what an XP desktop does, they get cannibalization not extension.

You know, it's funny, I've brought this up with the Microsoft Mobile Devices people a few times and they always look at me like I'm speaking in an alien tongue. The idea that they're purposefully holding back the platform is completely abhorrent to them, and they always seem vaguely insulted when I mention the idea.

I imagine members of that team probably would feel that way simply because I do believe that most people do try to do the best they can with the resources they have available to them. And I have no doubt the members of that group are doing the best they can.

Where MS has fallen short w/ the WM platform (IMO) is the resources devoted to that team. If Billy G had been nearly as excited about and devoted to WM 5 yr ago as he was to the Tablet PC concept, one can only imagine where we might be with mobile devices today.

And why the heck does the Office team continue to have such large teams. Heck, one could have published a freakin' book w/ Word at least 4 versions ago! What more does the Office line need for each of the individual products?!?!? Perhaps smoother/easier integration between the lot. Other than that, I dunno...... and I'd bet 90% of the world's Word users don't use more than 10% of it's current capabilities as it is.

It seems almost incomprehensible to me that the worlld won't move towards more and more OQO/DualCor/JasJar like devices. But it sure seems like the 'suits' at MS are still stuck in a desktop world. Like as not, that's a bit of an exaggeration, 'but'..............

[SassKwatch]

If you had an 'ultraportable lifestyle PC' like this, how would you use it?

My primary intent for a device of this type would be as a mobile storage device for transferring RAW files from the DSLR. Nothing I hate worse than walking around Arches Nat'l Park and worrying about whether I have sufficient space remaining on the CF card to shoot everything I want to shoot. This thing would go in the camera bag every time I left the house.

[Jonathon Watkins]

This thing would go in the camera bag every time I left the house.

I'm with you on that one! :wink: You can never have too much storage (though of course you can always overpay for it).

[Mark Johnson]

Where MS has fallen short w/ the WM platform (IMO) is the resources devoted to that team.

I think SassKwatch is right about this. It reminds me of a recurring theme in The West Wing where CJ the press secretary isn't told about unfolding events the other White House senior staff knows. She would always get upset later when she found out how badly she was "kept out of the loop" and then the Chief of Staff would just tell her: "it's easier for you to say 'I have no further information on that' when you really have no further information on it."

I think Microsoft HQ is employing a bit of this. Maintain enthusiasm in the Windows Mobile division by telling them "we're completely behind your efforts to expanding the OS" and then just choose not to fund projects (Bluetooth HID, USB host, etc.) that are required to get that done.

The division president just gets told "sorry there's no budget to hire the programmer you need for HID since Windows Mobile is such a small slice of the Windows pie, but keep up the good work anyway!" The real message is "we don't want Windows Mobile to be a larger part of the pie, because that would be a smaller pie."

***long quote edited by moderator JD***

[Nurhisham Hussein]

USB host in the reference design? Not a chance!

...then just choose not to fund projects (Bluetooth HID, USB host, etc.) that are required to get that done.

USB Host IS supported in the OS - has been since Pocket PC 2002, drivers and all. You can look this up in the Windows Mobile pages at MSDN. For that matter, Intel's PXA27x series processors all have USB host hardware built in. So the potential has always been there for every Pocket PC/Windows Mobile device to have USB host - the question is more properly why very few manufacturers chose to implement it.

[SassKwatch]

Where MS has fallen short w/ the WM platform (IMO) is the resources devoted to that team. If Billy G had been nearly as excited about and devoted to WM 5 yr ago as he was to the Tablet PC concept, one can only imagine where we might be with mobile devices today.

Just to belabor the point a bit.....

I was having some trouble with my Smartphone today and decided to do a little searching on the MS site to see if I could find anything discussing my problem.

From the MS 'home' page, I clicked the WM link in the left sidebar. "Hmmmm...., no links to any online 'Support' stuff there. Let's go back to the main MS home page."

Go back, and click the 'Support' link in the sidebar. Again, nothing in the content area of that page.....and nothing specific in the sidebar. Lots of MS products, but nothing WM specific. But hey, there's a 'More Solutions Centers' link....let's click that and see where we wind up. And......

Still nothing WM specific. They've even got a direct link for a NetMeeting 'Solution Center' there (NM is a dead product, no?), but no WM.(??)

But hey, there is a 'More Windows' link under the Windows product area. Mind you...., there is a direct link to Windows *98* in this grouping, but nothing about WM. So, off I go to 'More Windows'.......and,

Ahhh...., there's a 'Mobile Operating Systems' grouping. But wait, there *still* isn't a link to 'Windows Mobile'....or even 'PocketPC'.

But there is a link to Windows CE 5.0 there. While many users of this site would probably recognize one *might* find some answers about WM under this link, but even that could be a bit iffy.....and a good chance someone fairly new to the platform wouldn't have a clue.

It's exactly this kind of strangeness that makes me wonder just how seriously the upper levels of the MS management hierarchy take one of their own platforms.