WiFi handheld Videocall/Skype - best solution?

[dskeeles]

Hi All,

I'm looking for some way of having WiFi videocalls with my parents at home. Basically, I'd like to be able to set something up for them so that they can have a small (preferably handheld) device in the Kitchen or Living Room, fitted with a speakerphone and videocall camera, with which I can have calls with them over the WiFi router & broadband connection they have in the house.

Basically, it would be nice to have a videocall, where I can see them and they can see me, without having to ask them to go to the home PC, sit down, put on the headset, set up the webcam, etc. etc.

Simplicity is important; low price would be quite nice.

I've thought of a few solutions:

1. A 3G mobile phone... basically designed just for that, but quality can be iffy, and call costs are expensive! Also, I probably need a 3G phone myself too.

2. Maybe some kind of integrated device that's out there but not mainstream yet? Something like the Nokia770 with a webcam, but not requiring such a fine screen, etc.

3. Most likely solution: a second-hand Pocket PC, with a WiFi card, webcam in an expansion slot, and running Skype.


It seems (3) is probably the most likely existing solution, and if I get the stuff secondhand off Ebay, then I hope wouldn't be too expensive. It doesn't have to be the latest handheld - old IPAQs, etc. from 2-3 years ago should be going cheap, and still be good for a Skype + Webcam solution, no?

Thing is... what is the best / most cost-effective solution? Can anyone recommend a good combo for this? Or has anyone indeed caught rumblings of a new generation of mobile videocall devices?

I'm guessing the HTC Universals out there could fit the bill, but are probably a bit of overkill when an old Axim and £5 webcam could do the trick...?

Thanks!


Damian

[Nurhisham Hussein]

First - webcams that fit into Pocket PC expansion slots are not cheap. Most of the ones I've seen are typically in the US$100-$150 range new. I'm not even sure if there are any in production anymore.

Second, you might want to have a look at MS Portrait:

http://research.microsoft.com/mcom/portrait/

[dskeeles]

First - webcams that fit into Pocket PC expansion slots are not cheap. Most of the ones I've seen are typically in the US$100-$150 range new. I'm not even sure if there are any in production anymore.

Second, you might want to have a look at MS Portrait:

http://research.microsoft.com/mcom/portrait/

Thanks - one other poster mentioned MS Portrait, and it looks good, as long as they don't take it (expensively) commercial once it exits beta.

As for the camera - I've been scouring ebay, although I haven't researched specific models yet, and the trick is to differentiate the webcams vs the still cams. However, I thought this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5861283799) was a compatible camera.


Damian

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Yup, that camera's definitely compatible, as long as the PDA you get has a CF I slot. There are SDIO versions as well, IIRC.

I've tried MS Portrait in a wifi network environment - works great, though it doesn't support my PDA's built-in camera. I'm still trying to figure out how to get it to work over the internet though.

[dskeeles]

I've tried MS Portrait in a wifi network environment - works great, though it doesn't support my PDA's built-in camera. I'm still trying to figure out how to get it to work over the internet though.

Ouch. What problems do you have with it over the Internet?

[Menneisyys]

I'm still trying to figure out how to get it to work over the internet though.

Do you have problems with the MS Portrait directory services? If they don't work and your party has a "real" (non-proxied) IP, just enter the direct IP address of him/her directly into your Portrait to be able to connect to him/her, as I've explained in, for example, here (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&cat=158).

[Sven Johannsen]

Don't get the HP camera unless you plan to get an HP PocketPC with a CF slot. The driver issues are a bit tricky. You can get pretty much the same thing from Veo in either SD or CF and I do believe Portrait supports both.

Portrait will likely never become a product. It is a research project investigating low bandwidth video. The technology may eventually be incorporated into MS products or licensed to other software vendors.

It does work pretty well, but isn't all that easy. You should be able to get connections over the internet if both parties have hotmail and messenger accounts. It uses that system to establish the call if you don't have IPs that are addressable, which typically you won't if you are behind a NAT router.

You do have similar issues with feedback with portrait that you have with any VoIP system that is slapped on a product that really isn't designed for full duplex voice (mic and speakers too close together, etc.) I have found that Skype doesn't work worth a darn without a headset.

Trying to do handsfree VTC with a mobile device is still in the geeky stages in most places. The iMate JasJar is actually designed to do this, with a camera on the same side as the screen, and video call button in the phone interface. It unfortunately uses the 2100 band for the high speed data connection required, and that isn't common here in the US, so I can't attest to it's effectiveness.

If I were you I'd give some thought to something designed for what you want to do, like the Motorola Ojo. http://broadband.motorola.com/consumers/products/ojo/index2.html

[dskeeles]

Many thanks for the good advice - a lot I didn't know there!

Don't get the HP camera unless you plan to get an HP PocketPC with a CF slot.

I did catch a hint of that; my approach is that since the device is primarily for these, and those HPs are getting old, I can happily get the PDA that fits the camera.

You should be able to get connections over the internet if both parties have hotmail and messenger accounts.

Good point; I'd forgotten about NAT, and I guess uPnP is not priority for now. Again, easy enough to set up Messenger to cover this.

You do have similar issues with feedback with portrait that you have with any VoIP system that is slapped on a product that really isn't designed for full duplex voice (mic and speakers too close together, etc.) I have found that Skype doesn't work worth a darn without a headset.

That did make me pause... but then I thought of a pair of earphones!

Trying to do handsfree VTC with a mobile device is still in the geeky stages in most places.

If I were you I'd give some thought to something designed for what you want to do, like the Motorola Ojo.

I did... and dug around for the specs, which finally revealed it's RJ45 or RJ11, but not wireless. D-Link also do a product that uses a TV as a screen, which would work for me, but again - not wireless.

It DOES look like Portrait as it stands is the best current solution, even considering it's buying the (secondhand) hardware simply to match the software. Kudos to Microsoft on that one!

Of course, the HTC Universal IS the ideal solution - but apart from being £650 over here ($1000?), I don't think they implement Videophone over WiFi yet - only 3G, which is poorer quality, expensive, and with no gateway to a PC or PPC on the far end. And I assume Portrait doesn't run on WM!

Thanks!


Damian

[lavi557]

Could anyone recommend a good SD camera for PPC? :?:

[Sven Johannsen]

That did make me pause... but then I thought of a pair of earphones!

That works fine, using the built in mic and earphones. Kind of thought you were looking for more of a speaker phone sort of thing.

And I assume Portrait doesn't run on WM!
I wouldn't make that assumption. and it does run on WM2003SE, I guess you are worried about WM5. I hadn't loaded it it on a WM5 device yet, but someone probably has, or could. I assume you have been to the site and looked at the hardware requirements (what they've tested it on).

It's a shame that Skype's or Messenger's video capability hasn't been ported to the WM devices....yet.

Given any thought to a cheap laptop, camera and WiFi card? probably do that for around $500 (USD)

P.S. I had forgotten that HP made an SD camera as well. I actually have one, and it works fine on most PPCs, as it is essentialy a Veo Traveler. Veo's drivers work. Brain Fart I guess. So that is actually a viable option I think.

[Sven Johannsen]

Could anyone recommend a good SD camera for PPC? :?:
Good is very relative. Look at the Veo Traveler. Don't actually think there are that many available.

[dskeeles]

I wouldn't make that assumption. and it does run on WM2003SE, I guess you are worried about WM5. I hadn't loaded it it on a WM5 device yet, but someone probably has, or could. I assume you have been to the site and looked at the hardware requirements (what they've tested it on).
Unclear-ish; they do say the download is for WM and even Smartphone; however, one of the Q&As say that for the HTC Universal, they don't yet support the front camera natively, but they do intend to.

Given any thought to a cheap laptop, camera and WiFi card? probably do that for around $500 (USD)
Yeah, but this is for a Kitchen table/workstop - old clunky laptops have a larger footprint, plus PSU, etc. A PDA resting in a docking/charging station makes a reasonable impersonation of a videophone.

[Sven Johannsen]

however, one of the Q&As say that for the HTC Universal, they don't yet support the front camera natively, but they do intend to.

Neat. Hadn't noticed that. I emailed them when I got my Jasjar to lobby for supporting it, since it really lent itself to the PPC VTC idea. Tried to facilitate their getting with HTC for an SDK of sorts too. Maybe I got somewhere. Not sure it helps you out much, given the price, but it would be cool.

You might be able to get away with portrait, a used or refurbed 2210 (need a CF WiFi card) or 4100 and an SD Veo traveler

[mgough]

I have doen some testing on this subject and you can read my results at the following URL:

http://www.skypetips.internetvisitation.org/articles/pocketPC.html

There are no good solutions for a handheld and what is worse it the SD webcams for PPC just pop out with the spring loaded card design - VERY CRAPPY design.

Might I suggest using a Video Telephone for Ma & Pa.

Packet8 has actual Video Telephones that are available weith their service and soon Vonage will have the same.

http://www.packet8.net/about/video.asp

Also there are units from Beamer that use Dial-Up, but don't go there - they suck.

DLink makes the i2Eye Video Device that connects to a TV, but the video is not that good. The same unit made by someone else is very nice.

http://www.dealtime.com/xPC-Black_Crow_BLACK_CROW_BCV_103_Video_Conference_Unit

Hook up a Cordless phone to it though and you have a TV based solution.

You can check out my website for more on Video Call solutions. Info only, I don't sell it.

Regards,

MG
Author of Skype Me!
www.SkypeTips.com
www.VideoCallTips.com

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Welcome to the forum MG! That's a helluva great first post, thanks.

[dskeeles]

I have doen some testing on this subject and you can read my results at the following URL:

http://www.skypetips.internetvisitation.org/articles/pocketPC.html


That is absolutely stunning work! Thanks!