Why the PPC needs a Scroll Wheel

[Mark Johnson]

I wanted to start a thread on one of my favorite "soap box" issues: the lack of a true scroll wheel on the PPC. Let's face it folks, the "one-handed" navigation on the PPC is really bad. When you are trying to move through any large list (a song playlist, your contacts list, even a large HTML page in PIE) your only option on the PPC is to use the d-pad. So if you press the down button, you move a few lines down right? Click it a few times to go down one "screen" right? If you need to go down many "screens" you can click many many times. Or (as Microsoft seems to believe is an adequate solution) you can "press-and-hold" which will "auto-repeat" many down clicks right?

So let's talk about why "press-and-hold" is an incredibly crummy solution. The problem is that auto-repeat occurs at a pre-configured (constant or increasing) rate. It's extremely easy to "overshoot" or "undershoot" your target, leaving you only "in the general neighborhood" of what you wanted to get to. So you are back to either clicking half a dozen times, or if you were really far, you get to press-and-hold again and hope you "land" a bit closer this time around. Press-and-hold is an unbelievable poor solution to navigation, and I can illustrate this in a way that I think will make sense to everyone:

On your desktop, it is very likely you have a "wheel mouse" from one manufacturer or another. (Mine's a Microsoft IntelliMouse, but they are all pretty much the same.) When you are looking at a page like the one you are reading now, it is easy to scroll up and down either a few lines at a time (by scrolling slowly) or a few pages at a time (by scrolling quickly) because the wheel is speed-sensitive. Imagine for a minute that someone came in and replaced your wheel mouse with a (incredibly stupid) design that had an up button and a down button instead of a wheel. So you'd click down once to go down a couple lines, and click-and-hold to auto-repeat to scroll down more rapidly. Beleive it or not, I actually saw a mouse a few years ago just like that! It was, of course, a total flop in the market because anyone who's used a real wheel mouse would never accept the imprecision of up/down buttons.

This exact same concept is why the Apple iPod is creaming all the other mp3 players today. The "press-and-hold" navigation for playlists or volume or anything else is light-years behind the simplicity and accuracy of scrolling. What is hysterical is that almost none of the competitors recognize their navigation is the major element holding back their products. (Or they realize it, but they are such "small frys" that the threat of lawsuit from Apple intimidates them. There's been so much "prior art" for "scrolling-based navigation" that the idea that Apple really could have exclusive rights to use it is absurd. But if you're small, you know you can't defend yourself in court against a behemoth like Apple even though you know you are right.)

Now these "scrolling" types of navigation have been common in products ranging from the wheel mouse, a handful of mp3 players like the Rio Carbon, and (perhaps most famously) in the Sony Clie's where it was called a "Jog Dial." So any number of different kinds of products have had "true scroll wheels" but the PPC has never had one. The closest it ever got was the "three-way-toggle" on units like the Jornada 548. It's VERY important to recognize the distinction. The PPC has had thing that look like "wheels" but they have NEVER actually been able to do a 360 degree full rotation. You cannot continuously move in one direction, they were always functionally just like a d-pad. (This lead to the rather absurd arrangement on some devices like the Jornada 560 where the side of the unit had a "up/down/select" toggle and the bottom front ALSO had and up/down/left/right/select d-pad.)

It has amazed me for YEARS that Microsoft has never even prototyped a device that can actually scroll. If this feature were available, I wouldn't need to carry both a PPC and an iPod since I'd finally be able to navigate one-handed on my PPC. This is such a trivial engineering challenge, I wonder how Microsoft, the company that basically standardized us all on wheel mice, hasn't made the same "logic leap" in understanding that a scroll/select navigation method on the PPC would be an INCREDIBLE improvement in usability.

Does anyone have any contacts at Microsoft in the PPC group that we could promote this idea to? Any MVPs for the PPC here that could take the issue to Microsoft for us? There seems to be a wall preventing "real world experience" from getting back to the right people at Microsoft.

[burtcom]

Interesting idea.

One potential problem is that a wheel, to be usable, has to have a suitable diameter. Can one be installed in the front face of a thin device such as the typical PPC and still be useful? Would it be a good vector for getting grease and dirt into the device?

Perhaps if one was mounted on the side of the device where the thumb could get at it -- say where the record button is on my ipaq rx3115.

[Mark Kenepp]

I love the jog dial on my p800 (http://www.filesaveas.com/p800.html). I would love to have the same thing on my iPaq 2215. I agree that it would greatly improve one handed operation.

I don't think that the issue with a lack of scroll wheel/jog dial is a result of any technological shortcomings. I think it is a matter of ownership.

From what I have gathered from similar discussions about jog dials/scroll wheels on the web. Sony has the concept locked up with a patent. Anyone wanting to use a scroll wheel would need to get permission from Sony. Now either Sony is asking too high a price for the rights to use a jog dial/scroll wheel on a handheld computing device or they are simply unwilling to allow it. Either way, I think that is why it is not happening.

Microsoft has the patent for the scroll wheel (http://www.bespacific.com/mt/archives/005157.html). Could they not implement this technology into the Pocket PC? I am no legal expert, so I do not know.

I guess one of the questions is, are any PDA manufacturers willing to challenge Sony's patent?

[dickiedove]

My way of improving this agreeably paltry situation is as follows. Don't know if it is device specific but I set the up/down control under Buttons on the setting menu on my device to slower. This gives me much better control all in all.

I own a 6515 with a volume switch and I would love to change it to up and down and use it as a scroll wheel but I don't know how any ideas?

[Mark Johnson]

One potential problem is that a wheel, to be usable, has to have a suitable diameter. Can one be installed in the front face of a thin device such as the typical PPC and still be useful? Would it be a good vector for getting grease and dirt into the device?


Those are good questions. I didn't want to bring up the point in my first post, but there's no reason Microsoft couldn't do this with a thin strip of "touchpad" material. Think of a "scroll strip" perhaps mounted on the side.

Even better, perhaps two of them, one just under the bottom of the screen, one just to the right of it, each going the length of the screen edge. They could be VERY thin and allow the same "speed sensitive scrolling" whether you were in landscape or portrait mode. It would also solve the dirt concern.

[Mark Johnson]

...I set the up/down control under Buttons on the setting menu on my device to slower. This gives me much better control all in all.


I'm really glad you made this comment because it "articulates" the problem in a way I hadn't: The "auto-repeat" concept requires a trade-off between either control/accuracy or speed. The problem I run into all the time is that some lists I need speed at first (because I have a "long way to go" in the list, but then will need very fine control when I "get close" to what I want. Buttons with auto-repeat will always make me choose which of the two I want.

Buttons: Speed vs. Control
Scroll Wheel: Speed and Control

[PetiteFlower]

The other question is, where do you put this scroll wheel? It would have to be in the same spot to allow one handed navigation for righties and lefties. Can't really put it on the front, and picking one side or the other means picking one hand over the other.

I don't see how you'd be able to use a "touch strip" on the front of the device with one hand. And if you can, just use the touch screen! That's what the scroll bars on the screen are there for.

[Mark Johnson]

It would have to be in the same spot to allow one handed navigation for righties and lefties.


My thought is that if you used a "scroll strip" on the side (imagine it's about 5mm wide and 20mm long) it would take so little space you could place one on both sides. (You could disable in software whichever one you didn't want to use if you wanted to.) So it would be easy to solve for both righties and lefties.


I don't see how you'd be able to use a "touch strip" on the front of the device with one hand.


If I hold my x50v with my right hand, it's really easy to run my right thumb the entire vertical length along the right side of the screen. If there were a 2mm wide "scroll strip" in that space, I'd be able to use it quite naturally. If they put one on each side, this would also work the same for both righties and lefties.

If I open a webpage in PIE and try to use my thumbs to scroll up and down the first problem is that I smudge the screen something awful.

The second problem is that the scroll bar isn't really "sized" to let me precisely "grab" the slider with my thumb.

The third problem is that the touchscreen is designed to have a relatively high amount of pressure in a relatively small space (i.e., the tip of a stylus) to either click OR drag navigation elements where a finger delivers a relatively low amount of pressure over a much wider space. A finger is not a "precision" tool and the PPC touch screens (and all navigation on them) are designed from the ground up to use a stylus.


Also, I hope everyone bears in mind that I'm not suggesting that any OEM remove or change ANY of the buttons you might find useful on whatever device is your current favorite. For me, I love my x50v and what I want is the ADDITION of some sort of real or touchpad scroll wheel while still retaining the d-pad and all other buttons exactly as they are.

There would be NO loss of functionality by adding such a scroll strip. If anyone reading this thinks "gee, I'd hate a scroll-wheel/strip on my PPC because I actually like button-based navigation" you'd be no worse off. You'd still have the same buttons, and just ignore the strip(s) or even completely turn them off in the PPC settings panel.

[pocketpcadmirer]

I love the jog dial on my p800 (http://www.filesaveas.com/p800.html). I would love to have the same thing on my iPaq 2215. I agree that it would greatly improve one handed operation.

Yes you are right. I too loved the jog dial feature on my now 'old' P910i. It was simply nice to browse through the contacts or read ebooks. I do miss such feature on my magician,but, now I am happy with the D-Pad. Though it would have been nice,if there was an option to use the volume buttons as scroll buttons

Sunny

[KTamas]

I'd like a scroll wheel (jog dial) as well. For those with devices with volume up/down button, here are some help. Despite WM5's bugs, slowness and everything, one thing I like in WM5, that I can do a LOT with one hand if i have start/ok/left softkey/right softkey mapped to HW buttons. But for ppl with 2003(SE), here are some help.

First, there is AE Button Plus ONLY for Himalaya (imate Pocket PC, T-mobile MDAII etc.), Alpine (imate PDA2, O2 XDAIIi etc.), Magician (imate Jam, T-mobile MDA Compact etc.), Wallaby (T-mobile MDA, O2 XDA etc.) devices. It works on E-ten M500 as well, but it is pretty useless since M500 does not have any volume slider IIRC. This app is for launching up to 3 apps from one HW button, but can also reconfigure volume up/down to the dpad up/down keys.
AE Button Plus homepage (http://ae.inc.ru/aebplus)

The second one is for Blue Angel (T-mobile MDAIII, O2 XDAIIs, imate PDA2K etc.) devices (since AEBP does not work under BA). It can be found here (http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=18216) (free registration required). I've tested this one and works really well.

[dickiedove]

Is there anything like this for Ipaqs????

[k1darkknight]

From what I have gathered from similar discussions about jog dials/scroll wheels on the web, Sony has the concept locked up with a patent.
(Sigh) Now isn't that JUST like Sony, to claim they invented the wheel? (or should I say "The Wheel ®" ? )

[KTamas]

Is there anything like this for Ipaqs????
Not that I know. You can try AE Button Plus, however it CAN mess up your buttons and force you to do a hard reset.

[CrashX]

Oh, how I miss my jog dial!

My primary device before my h6315 was a Palm OS Sony NZ-90. For the first week that I had the iPaq, I kept trying to use a jog dial, which of course, does not exist.

I would love to see a job dial added to PPC's in the future!

[uwaku]

Like others, I had a jog-dial before migrating (on my HandEra). It wasn't a scroll wheel because it wasn't a complete circle, but I could do three things with it: 1) scroll slowly by jogging it a little in one direction, 2) scroll faster by jogging it ALL THE WAY in one direction, and 3) use it to select items like pressing the D-pad.
Since Sony had one AND so did HandEra, I really don't think that anyone has the use locked in, keeping us from getting it. Give us a jog-dial!

[kgb]

I agree; one-handed operation needs a serious boost to use all the functions a PPC offers. Two observations:

1) I have a Garmin iQue 3600 GPS Palm based PPC (Yuk!). It has a bi-directional dial on the side that you move up to scroll up and down to scroll down. The farther you push the button the faster it moves and it always returns to the center when you let go; then you just push in to select the the item. Much better than a dial from my experience.

2) In lieu of a scroll or jog dial; why not a mouse? I have a Compaq Tablet PC and the attachable keyboard has a flush mounted button that functions as a mouse. The size and movements are perfect for a PPC; really. To me this solves several one-handed operation problems.

[Craig Horlacher]

I never buy a pocket pc without a jog dial.

That's one reason I've never owned an ipaq. I've also been dissopointed by some dell's and asus models that don't have them. To me, that show's companies that have designers who don't actually use the devices. In my opion no heavy user would ever let one of these be designed without one. While toshiba did this right they managed to come up with a bluetooth stack that isn't compatible with human interface devices (like keyboards!!!). I guess there is no perfect pocket pc:(

[Mark Johnson]

I never buy a pocket pc without a jog dial.


Just to make sure everyone is using the same terms, I'd like to restate that there is not now, nor has there ever been, a PPC with a "Jog Dial" on it.

A "Jog Dial" is a (Trademarked) term Sony used to describe what I call a Scroll Wheel. (Sony did NOT have the first use of such technology! It's been around a LONG time. I'm sure Microsoft is NOT paying Sony a royalty on every IntelliMouse with a Scroll Wheel in it, and they are identical mechanisms.)

The "wheel looking thing" that many of us had on different PPCs (like my Jornada 548) is really a "Toggle Wheel" (because it cannot do a 360 rotation.) The PPC has only had these "three-position toggle switches" that were (pointlessly) placed on the device as "wheels" which could not spin, jsut go up or down one position, then return to center.

The Toggle Wheel is just a waste of space on a PPC with a D-Pad. The three choices on the Toggle Wheel (up/down/select) are just a subset of the five choices on a D-Pad (up/down/right/left/select.)

The various suggestions about different settings (varying the auto-repeat speed, etc.) are helpful, but I would like to make sure the overall concept of what I'm saying here stays clear: No matter how you "tweak" a series of buttons, they will always be much less functional than having a real ability to scroll.

The Sony Clie's "Jog Dial" did a 360 and was far better than the Toggle Wheel on the PPC's.

An interesting poll would be to find out how many people (like me) choose to use BOTH a PPC and an iPod. Right now SD cards are incredibly cheap, and I ALWAYS have my PPC with me. So why don't I just load all my mp3's on the PPC and just use that? Simple:

Try the following test:
Load the same 50 songs on an SD card on your PPC and on an iPod Nano. Now, using only one hand, do the following actions on each.
1) Scroll thought the list of all songs down to the 43rd.
2) Play it
3) Raise the volume, then lower the volume
4) Fast forward EXACTLY 1 minute in the song
5) Stop playback
6) Navigate to the 18th song
7) Play that one.

Anyone who's ever used both the PPC and the iPod will understand instantly that the seven steps I've described are incredibly easy and smooth actions with one hand on the Nano. You could complete all seven steps of this test in a matter of seconds. On the PPC, you could probably not complete this test AT ALL with only one hand, you would almost be FORCED to use the stylus and two hands.

And that my friends is why Windows Media/Janus DRM/MSN Music is being THRASHED by the iPod/iTunes. For crying out loud, I'm as much of an enthusiast for the PPC as anyone I've ever met, and even I compare the user experience and say "forget it! I'm buying a Nano!"

I just wonder what it's going to take to get Microsoft to even begin to recognize the problem. Maybe after Steve Jobs sells a billion iPods?

The PPC is at a "useablity dead end" (much like the original non-wheel mouse) that HAS to be leap-frogged. I admire HP's attempt to do that with the hx4700, but my reaction to it when it first arrived was both love/excitement and instant disappointment/horror. The idea of using "touchpad material" (as I described with the "Scroll Strip" concept) is exactly the kind of "next generation" addtion we need. The INSANITY of completely REPLACING the traditional D-Pad made the hx4700 a flop. The OEM's "learned" a false lesson from HP's glaring blunder:

HP chose to REMOVE the navigation options people relied on and REPLACE it with something that was frankly kinda quirky and unreliable. Gamers were going to hate it for sure, even "normal users" were going to have mixed reactions at best. So the hx4700 didn't do very well and all the OEM's are standing around thinking "see, people don't want/can't understand anything other than buttons and d-pads." So we've gone nowhere in the last couple of years. Tragic.

The real lesson that should have been learned is that we REALLY need a method of improving navigation that is in ADDITION to the d-pad and buttons we are used to. There is not space on the front of a PPC for a d-pad AND a touchpad, but WE DON"T NEED a full size touchpad. Just a small vertical strip along the side would have provided VASTLY improved list/slider navigation and still left the d-pad there.

[IpaqMan2]

I dont care if anyone like's the scroll wheel or not... fact is, it makes one hand navigation easier. OEMs, and Microsoft need to get this through their heads.... Windows Mobile needs to be fully one hand navigationable and the stylus should be optional - a scroll wheel is a great idea. With as much money and power Microsoft has, Windows mobile should be what every other smartphone / PDA compares themselves against, not the Treo or anything else.

[gibson042]

I have three comments.

This exact same concept is why the Apple iPod is creaming all the other mp3 players today. The "press-and-hold" navigation for playlists or volume or anything else is light-years behind the simplicity and accuracy of scrolling.
There is a functional distinction between the scroll wheel in a mouse and the click wheel (I think I got the term right) on an iPod. Their orientation makes them completely different devices, and here's why: the mouse's is much less useful for precise long-list navigation because it cannot be scrolled continuously; one must periodically pick up their finger. It is a benefit of the click wheel and the the three-action toggle that they can be used for continuous scrolling.

This lead to the rather absurd arrangement on some devices like the Jornada 560 where the side of the unit had a "up/down/select" toggle and the bottom front ALSO had and up/down/left/right/select d-pad.
As I've previously pointed out (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=384310#384310), it is still very useful to have a three-action toggle. It doesn't matter that it is a subset of the d-pad; it provides another axis of control and more programmable options. All application buttons are functionally identical; is it absurd to have them?

Does anyone have any contacts at Microsoft in the PPC group that we could promote this idea to?
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this is not a Microsoft issue. They do not deal at all in the hardware that Windows Mobile runs on, and have no desire to do so. It is pointless to bring them up, because they are neither the source of your frustration, nor able to ameliorate it.

[birick]

The one thing I don't like about my Axim X50v is the lack of a scroll wheel, (or three position toggle). My Sony NX70 had the wheel, and the toggle on the Toshiba E755 worked just as well for me. Not having either one on my Axim is a pain.

[bcvc38]

I love the idea of a scroll wheel or a scrolling toggle on the IPAQ and other PPCs.

I think more importantly, on all new electronics (including MP3 players and phones) you should be able to reassign all of the various side buttons on the devices too. I never use the camera on my IPAQ and it is great to be able to reassign that button to a function I use often. I have a Rio MP3 player that has a "record" button that seems to get hit by accident, all the time. I wish I could just turn that button off completely!

Another issue.. why not come up with a standard rechargable mini battery, one that could be used in a wide variety of products, a slim battery for phones, pocket PCs, MP3 players, whatever! I am tired of dragging 3-4 chargers and a 1/2 dozen spare batteries around to run all of my stuff. A universal slim battery would also reduce unit cost and make compliant devices that much more appealing!

Lastly, do we need XD, mini-SD, micro-SD and other even smaller forms of flash memory? Can't we stop and settle on one size? I like SD. The prices are reasonable now and they really are small enough for most of today's devices. I don't want a 2 gig grain of rice for $500... I'll lose it! I have 6 devices that use SD and I have no desire to start in with super-micro-mini-XD cards, the size of a hole punch. Stop already! Put an SD slot in everything (including all new cellphones) and be done with it!

[dlinker]

I was a PocketPC user for many years and now carry a Blackberry supplied by my company.

The Blackberry has a scroll wheel and that's what makes it so easy to use - even our most senior staff can use it with little training. There is no stylus to loose and it all works with one hand. Even though I'm left handed, using it with my right hand is still very easy.

Until Microsoft realise that the scroll wheel is one of the killer points of the Blackberry, they'll be fighting a loosing battle to get this in to the corporate world.

[galt]

Agree x3. I traded my Sidekick/Hiptop (has scroll wheel) for a PPC (no scroll wheel) and my Rio Karma mp3 player (has scroll wheel) for a iAudio X5 (5 way joystick) and in both cases the ease of use has decreased noticibly. My perception is that my devices with the scroll wheels were designed by folks who placed a high importance on the mechanisms the users used to inferface with the device and the opposite is true of the devices without them. I think it's very important that designers place more emphasis on HOW users interact with the device and design for ease of use. The beginning of the implementation of some one-handed navigation in WM5 shows that there is a recognition of this need, but a PPC device with a scroll wheel would be awesome.

[Mark Johnson]

There is a functional distinction between the scroll wheel in a mouse and the click wheel (I think I got the term right) on an iPod.

You're absolutely right that the way the iPod's "Click Wheel" (Apple's trademarked term BTW) is even better than the Scroll Wheel on a mouse in that you can continuously scroll without even picking up your tumb. In my ideal world, I'd love to see a perfectly round circle d-pad on the front of my Axim x50v that had a thin "outer ring" that was a touchpad "Click Wheel" for list navigation. My guess is that it would be so similar to the iPod even Microsoft would blush at bringing it to the market.

But even if MS only did a "Scroll Strip" sort of thing, we'd at least get speed-sensitivity and wouldn't have to rely on the (incredibly imprecise) auto-repeat method. We would have to lift our thumbs for each "downstroke" but at least a single downstroke could be configured to register 1 line down per mm when speed is slow and 10 lines down per mm when speed is high, etc.


...it is still very useful to have a three-action toggle. It doesn't matter that it is a subset of the d-pad...

It is definately better than not having it at all because, as you point out, at a bare minimum, the buttons can be reassigned. My real point about the 568 was that the buttons really didn't provide any "different" or "improved" navigation, but were just redundant to the d-pad (until the user reassigned them...)


Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this is not a Microsoft issue. They do not deal at all in the hardware that Windows Mobile runs on, and have no desire to do so.

This is actually a really interesting "philosophical issue" here. There is a certain degree to which Microsoft has provided OEM's with a "reference design" that Windows Mobile can run on. In other words, Microsoft has defined a "specification" for certain minimum featuresets. The OEM's (with the notable exception of the HP hx4700) seem to make little effort to deviate from the specs at all. I will contend that this IS Microsoft's "problem" and they both "can" and "had better" do something about it.

Microsoft has (from day one with DOS on the original IBM PC) always said "we make the software, you make the hardware." But they've also always know that's a bit of an over-simplification and have published many standards so the OEM's would know what was going to work on, and what would be able to fully take advantage of, whatever Windows platform Microsoft was shippind at any time. It's worked remarkably well on the desktop.

The iPod's ability to thrash WM/Janus/MSN Music is a fascinating triumph of Apple's "we make the software and the hardware" philosophy. In this one arena, Apple's approach has made for a RADICALLY more appealing device and Microsoft had better wake up and recoginze the fault lies in Redmond.

If they can't get a better navigation method put together in their usability labs and propose something like an "IntelliStrip / ScrollStrip / IntelliMouse Scroll Wheel" option that Windows Mobile will natively support (and deliver the spec to the OEMs) they will continue to see huge numbers of their own customers supporting Apple. What do I mean? I'm one of those people who isn't happy with just my $300 Axim, I'm also happy to send another $250 to Apple for a Nano. I could play the same songs on my PPC and just carry one device, except I know there's no way I could navigate the thing when driving in my car (where I need the music in the first place.)

Microsoft ought to do some surveys and figure out just how many iPod owners also have a PPC. Then ask those guys why they don't just listen to their music on their PPC. The answer isn't going to have anything to do with how the iTunes store works, or the nifty colors the iPod Mini came in. Anyone who's used both a PPC and an iPod will have the same reaction I do: "What, use the PPC for music? Are you kidding me?!? I'll get in a car wreck! I'll pay the extra $250 for a Nano just so I won't die on the freeway!"

[ctmagnus]

My Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 has a scroll wheel, and while I love the implementation, I haven't used it in a while as the button got mushed somehow and now it's extremely skippy.

[Don't Panic!]

I think a scroll wheel is useful but not necessary. I have become very profecient in navigating with a d-pad. My first two PPCs had a scroll wheel (HP Jornada and Casio E-125), then there was a lull (Compaq 3800, 3900, HP Compaq 2215), until the DELL X-30 came out and I got it back but I found that I seldom used it. Now I'm using the DELL X50v, The Samsung SCH i730 and the imate JasJar and I just don't feel the need for a scroll wheel anymore. 0X

[MobileAGBell]

Scroll wheel? Just another reason why my primary device is now a BlackBerry 8700c.

[gibson042]

Mark, I can't say I'm convinced that this is Microsoft's issue, but I definitely see your point because hardware does affect Windows Mobile sales, and handleds are not the commoditized beige boxes that x86 PCs are. Regardless, you have some spectacular ideas. I love the concentric d-pad/scroll-pad one, but my favorite remains the scroll strip (or is that IntelliStrip™... great name :way to go:). At this point, though, I'll personally settle for even the lowly three-action toggle.

[ChristopherTD]

First, there is AE Button Plus ONLY for Himalaya (imate Pocket PC, T-mobile MDAII etc.), Alpine (imate PDA2, O2 XDAIIi etc.), Magician (imate Jam, T-mobile MDA Compact etc.), Wallaby (T-mobile MDA, O2 XDA etc.) devices. It works on E-ten M500 as well, but it is pretty useless since M500 does not have any volume slider IIRC. This app is for launching up to 3 apps from one HW button, but can also reconfigure volume up/down to the dpad up/down keys.
AE Button Plus homepage (http://ae.inc.ru/aebplus)


Thanks very much for that link - it works wonderfully on my iMate Jam. When I am reading an eBook in bed, the clicking of the buttons is surprisingly loud - using the volume slider is completely silent. Brilliant!

[Walk Broad]

Coming from a Palm before purchasing my Dell Axim 30h, having the scroll wheel was the deciding factor against all other Palms or Pocket PC's when it came time to upgrade.

I liked it so much I went with the Axim 30 over the v50.

A scroll wheel is something I use often and wish was more widely available.

When it is time to upgrade again, I hope some smart manufacturer has the foresight and consideration to include one. :D

[galt]

Well, someone agreed with you - The HTC Hermes has a true scroll wheel!

http://msmobiles.com/news.php/5011.html

Most importantly however we were testing the wheel very thoroughly and it works like in Blackberry - it is not fake wheel (jog dial) but a real wheel that you can scroll without limits and you can press for action of selection

[apache]

If you want scroll wheel functionality plus the option to set speed/sensitivity, just buy the hx4700. the touch pad does not only offer coursor mode but navigation mode as well which delivers exactly what you are looking for! Try it out!

[BoxWave]

You should check out the Motorola Q. It has a scroll wheel on the side of the phone. I know it's a smartphone and not a pocket pc phone, but it's the only device that I know of that has a scroll wheel on the the device.

you can check out www.hellomotoq.com for reviews on the Motorola Q.

[Joelacrane]

I love your IntelliStrip idea.

I'd be happy if someone just made an Mp3 player program that could be COMPLETELY used with buttons! Pocket Player is the best ive found so far.

[BoxWave]

I'm in agreement that a scroll wheel is going to have a certain diameter to it... maybe the Q did okay, but I can't say I'm while about its functionality with a touch screen device (which the Q is obviously not).

Wing Yew

[BoxWave]

I just read the msmobiles article. Nice find. I hadn't realized the presence of a wheel was that important.

-W