PocketNow Reviews The Palm Treo 700w

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://pocketnow.com/index.php?a=portal_detail&amp;t=reviews&amp;id=758&amp;p=1">http://pocketnow.com/index.php?a=portal_detail&amp;t=reviews&amp;id=758&amp;p=1</a><br /><br />PocketNow has put up their comprehensive review of the new Palm Treo 700w, which in typical PocketNow style is accompanied by tons of screen shots and a thorough going through of the devices features. <br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2006/20060107-treocomparison.jpg" /><br /><i>From left to right, the Samsung 700i, Dell Axim X50v, iMate PDA2K, iMate K-Jam and Treo 700w</i><br /><br />The review also compares it to a number of other devices. It surprised me that the 700w is almost identical in thickness to the <a href="http://kjamming.blogspot.com">iMate K-Jam</a> even though the latter has hardware to support a slide out keyboard.

[globaloffice]

Having owned mine and played with it extensively since Thursday morning, it's a fairly accurate review. Hard reset he mentions is undocumented but is in the Verizon docs: hold down power while doing a reset. Pretty straightforward.

I've had a lot of issues with sync that I'm still trying to work out with third party apps, foremost being eWallet but I'd like to think the issue is mine and not the device.

Jury is still out for me. I use my hx4700 extensively, and this device seems to be much more of a phone with PDA functions to enhance it than a true PDA device. If you're a hardcore PDA user I'd venture to say that this isn't the device for you.

Just my thoughts. Thanks for posting the link to the review, for those of you that haven't seen this device it is a good overview.

-Roger

[Twain]

I bought this device and have been using it for about 24 hours now. One thing that has bothered me about much of the blog and "press" coverage (including the pocketnow review) is the constant harping on the lack of memory.

I also own the HP hx4700. Now there is a real Pocket PC with memory problems! There is where I really would like an additional 32 to 64 MB of RAM. But in this case on page 2 of the article, Christopher Spera (like so many others) talks about what may happen due to the limited memory and not how he has actually been impacted! It is as if everyone has the same automatic kneejerk reaction to decry the need for more memory. It is much more helpful to readers if reviewers would somewhat more objectively review the device they have rather than the device they wish they had.

The same is true in the area of screen resolution. Here again, I am used to the hx4700 with a relatively high resolution. My first thoughts about the published screen resolution of 240 x 240 pixels (prior to owning the Palm Treo 700w) was, "how can I possibly go back to the stone age of a lower screen resolution??" Having actually used the device now for less than 24 hours, I believe the resolution is just fine.

I do agree with the author and several other reports I've read that the device appears to be sluggish (especially by comparison to the 4700). I'm wondering if all WM5 devices (Pocket PCs as well as Smartphones) will be slower given the move to a different storage architecture?

Undoubtedley, engineering tradeoffs in these areas were needed to maximize battery charge life. So far, I think the trades made are okay. I may change my mind as I try to load more software on the Treo.

One feature lacking that I hope changes in the next version of this device is a built-in Wi-Fi antenna. Although I can get to the Internet over the Verizon network, I would prefer to use that network (and the attendant costs) only when absolutely necessary. I do have the Wi-Fi SD card and it works well; the issues are that it doesn't fit in the case, I have to remember to carry it and it is easily lost.

Despite the sluggishness, this new Treo will work for me just fine. I don't intend to retire the HP 4700 anytime soon (unless, of course they come up with a WM5 replacement model! :roll: ).

[d-roC]

Thanks for the link to this review PPCTs. I liked hearing from an established member of the WinMob community concerning the 700w.

I agree with the above poster in talking about the idea of wished for specs versus its actual performance. From the sounds of things, the "80+% of folks who use these and never install any 3rd party apps" wont have an issue with it. Some will, and that is a given, but most wont and so again (at least from PICs side of the conversation) most wont care.

Neat. Now waiting for the PPCTs review and then I shall have ample ammo with which to funnel people to treos WM and PalmOS at work :)

[Ed Hansberry]

But in this case on page 2 of the article, Christopher Spera (like so many others) talks about what may happen due to the limited memory and not how he has actually been impacted! It is as if everyone has the same automatic kneejerk reaction to decry the need for more memory. It is much more helpful to readers if reviewers would somewhat more objectively review the device they have rather than the device they wish they had.

The same is true in the area of screen resolution. Here again, I am used to the hx4700 with a relatively high resolution. My first thoughts about the published screen resolution of 240 x 240 pixels (prior to owning the Palm Treo 700w) was, "how can I possibly go back to the stone age of a lower screen resolution??" Having actually used the device now for less than 24 hours, I believe the resolution is just fine.
amen. there is too much reviewing of paper specs rather than real world usage. i'd challenge someone to review a device without knowing the pixel resolution, the mhz speed, ram, rom, or any other paper spec and just use it and judge it, which, amasingly enough, is how the real world user will evaluate it.

[d-roC]

i'd challenge someone to review a device without knowing the pixel resolution, the mhz speed, ram, rom, or any other paper spec and just use it and judge it, which, amasingly enough, is how the real world user will evaluate it.

The closest review to that one is the Times review. And if that is any indication, Palm will have a ton that will like it, and be horribly confused that Palm really does equal Windows now.

[DaleReeck]

foremost being eWallet but I'd like to think the issue is mine and not the device.


There is a DLL called something like ewalletsync.dll or similar in the ewallet directory. Windows Mobile 5 devices need a different version of this to sync properly. If you contact Ilium support, they will probably email you the DLL. They supposedly plan on updating the app officially in the future.

[globaloffice]

foremost being eWallet but I'd like to think the issue is mine and not the device.


There is a DLL called something like ewalletsync.dll or similar in the ewallet directory. Windows Mobile 5 devices need a different version of this to sync properly. If you contact Ilium support, they will probably email you the DLL. They supposedly plan on updating the app officially in the future.

Ahhh, sounds like it's not me then, just as I had certified myself nuts. :-) Thanks for the heads up. I had already dropped their tech support a note, here's crossing my fingers because I live by eWallet! ListPro works fine barring one bug in the register nag screen where the register button doesn't work. Continue with trial and go to the menu option to register and it works fine. This with the new version they released this week. This may be an overall WM5 buglet and not specific to the Treo tho. Certainly not a showstopper, the application runs and sync's fine.

TimeTrackerMX is another story entirely, no synch with a hard ADO crash and dialogs that are off screen but I can't find where it's claiming WM5 compatibility. I have a note into them, I'll update if I hear anything.

Thanks again!
-Roger

Update: TimetrackerMX is not WM2K5 compatible. That solves that one :)

[whydidnt]

It seems to me some here chose to only believe what they want to believe. It's funny how the many of the same folks complaining on reviewers reviewing specs, not the device, also haven't used the device. Read the forums at TreoCentral, or PDAPhoneHome. There are reports coming in of people recieving out of memory errors. If you further read the posts, these are not power users, some are new to WM.

One user has only Goodlink installed and runs out of memory just donwloading his email. Another is unable to open a 550k PDF file with the included Picsel viewer.

These are real world examples of issues related to memory. The device has been out 3 days now it is happening at a greater frequency than any other recent PE device. If you think a business executive that this is targeted at is going to stand for error messages every time their email is pushed to the device, I tend to disagree.

Don't forget that default WM settings aren't RAM friendly - mail, attachments and IE cache will be loaded into RAM when you run those programs. I think as soon as any user - power or not, starts to use the functions of included with this phone they are going to have the problems. And please explain to me why anyone would buy this and NOT use at least some of it's PDA functionality - email, contacts, calendar, internet, etc.

[KTamas]

The problem of the device os that they tried to Palm-ize the WM5. Green button takes to the today screen (what the....). Limited memory (you did not need too much RAM on Palm where you can run only one application at once....). Everything is on the today screen, so if i want to use my own today plugins, i can either live with that ugly scrollbar or be screwed up. Stripped down Phone application. GUI tweaks and such. Sure, the point is to convert the Treo 600/650 users, but on the other hand, they'll lose lots of customers because of these problems -- WM ppl do want to multitask.

[pocketpcadmirer]

Everything is on the today screen, so if i want to use my own today plugins, i can either live with that ugly scrollbar or be screwed up. Stripped down Phone application. GUI tweaks and such. Sure, the point is to convert the Treo 600/650 users, but on the other hand, they'll lose lots of customers because of these problems -- WM ppl do want to multitask.

Yes I agree. Looks like 700w is meant for the people who are not power users. And please dont talk about that phone app..that is not at all upto scratch(looks incomplete to me as compared to my magician phone app)

And yes with that resolution and memory,try running textmaker(with goood size doc opened with images) and wmp playing a song in the background :lol:

Sunny

[pocketpcadmirer]

" The device doesn't have Transcriber installed on it at all. However, it does have both Letter Recognizer and Block Recognizer, the two SIP's that Microsoft created to help PalmOS converts become comfortable with Windows Mobile because they're similar to Graffiti and Graffiti II found on many PalmOS devices."

Hey whats this..what is palm os thinking..arent they making the device for wm people or only for the palm os people.

Very bad step taken by palm to remove transcriber

Sunny

[Mike Temporale]

I'm wondering if all WM5 devices (Pocket PCs as well as Smartphones) will be slower given the move to a different storage architecture

Well, not the Smartphone. It just doesn't have the processor that the PocketPC has. Smartphones have had persistent storage since day 1. It was added to PPC so you guys could catch up to us. ;)

[KTamas]

" The device doesn't have Transcriber installed on it at all. However, it does have both Letter Recognizer and Block Recognizer, the two SIP's that Microsoft created to help PalmOS converts become comfortable with Windows Mobile because they're similar to Graffiti and Graffiti II found on many PalmOS devices."

Hey whats this..what is palm os thinking..arent they making the device for wm people or only for the palm os people.

Very bad step taken by palm to remove transcriber

Sunny
"Too bad" that Transcriber can still be downloaded and installed separatelly...nice try, Palm.

[Darius Wey]

Smartphones have had persistent storage since day 1. It was added to PPC so you guys could catch up to us. ;)

Well, we still have our touch screen and Office Mobile until you guys catch up to us. :P :D

[pocketpcadmirer]

Smartphones have had persistent storage since day 1. It was added to PPC so you guys could catch up to us. ;)

Well, we still have our touch screen and Office Mobile until you guys catch up to us. :P :D

Yes thats the biggest advantage for pocket pc users

Sunny :)

[KTamas]

Smartphones have had persistent storage since day 1. It was added to PPC so you guys could catch up to us. ;)

Well, we still have our touch screen and Office Mobile until you guys catch up to us. :P :D
And MorphGear, one of the seven wonders of the PPC world ;)

[Mike Temporale]

Yes thats the biggest advantage for pocket pc users

I don't know if that's an advantage or not, but... aren't we getting a little off topic here. :lol: ;)

[inteller]

maybe it is Palms master plan to sabotage WM OS on Palm hardware so people will clamor back for Palm OS?

[alese]

" The device doesn't have Transcriber installed on it at all. However, it does have both Letter Recognizer and Block Recognizer, the two SIP's that Microsoft created to help PalmOS converts become comfortable with Windows Mobile because they're similar to Graffiti and Graffiti II found on many PalmOS devices."

Hey whats this..what is palm os thinking..arent they making the device for wm people or only for the palm os people.

Very bad step taken by palm to remove transcriber

Sunny
"Too bad" that Transcriber can still be downloaded and installed separatelly...nice try, Palm.

I'm guessing this was not done to confuse Palm users (although they would be :-) ) but simply because of available resources. Transcriber uses memory, and that's one thing Treo does not have...

[jutae]

Has there ever been a device that someone hasn't whined about? There is no "perfect" device. Trust me I'm a hardcore techy (ex ipaq 3765, 3835, 3955, 2215, 4350 rx3765, axim x50v, ipaq 4700, mpx 220, palm 3, V, clie {i 4 get which ones} ipod generation 1,3 and now 5) and i'm still not happy....and due Wed. the Treo 700w.........

Hey, where's the rock on emoticon?

[Ed Hansberry]

Hey, where's the rock on emoticon?

:rock on dude!:

[jutae]

So does treo run the smartphone edition software or windows mobile phone edition software?


Thanks Ed. I didn't see the rock emoticon :rock on dude!: It was under view more.....

[KTamas]

So does treo run the smartphone edition software or windows mobile phone edition software?


Thanks Ed. I didn't see the rock emoticon :rock on dude!: It was under view more.....
Windows Mobile 5. No smartphone.

[shk718]

i've played with one quite a bit today - had it next to the 650. as far as the screen resolution - when you turn on clear type - the text actually looks better on the 700w than on the 650. For example the "W"'s on the 650 look very wavy - on the 700w - nice and smooth.

as far as the screen size - i noticed that in widows internet explorer once your viewing a web site they remove the top and bottom bars wich makes the viewing area excactly the same size as a regular pocket pc. when you need an option - just press the soft key and the bars appear.

the one handed abilities of it are done very well - i didn't need to use the stylus at all - only on the calendar app when i wanted to select a specific day. but the 5 way seem to work for many of the apps on the phone. 3rd party may be a different story.

One thing i noticed was that when i played a video in full screen mode it was a bit choppy at times - i might have had too many apps running - i'm not sure.

[Ed Hansberry]

So does treo run the smartphone edition software or windows mobile phone edition software?
Windows Mobile 5. No smartphone.

Both the Smartphone and Pocket PC run Windows Mobile 5. You have to distinguish for Windows Mobile 5 for Pocket PC or Windows Mobile 5 for Smartphone. And technically, there is Windows Mobile for Pocket PC Phone, which has the phone software built in.

And the Treo is "for Pocket PC Phone."

See http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/about/faq.mspx for more - the first three questions.

[KTamas]

So does treo run the smartphone edition software or windows mobile phone edition software?
Windows Mobile 5. No smartphone.

Both the Smartphone and Pocket PC run Windows Mobile 5. You have to distinguish for Windows Mobile 5 for Pocket PC or Windows Mobile 5 for Smartphone. And technically, there is Windows Mobile for Pocket PC Phone, which has the phone software built in.

And the Treo is "for Pocket PC Phone."

See http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/about/faq.mspx for more - the first three questions.
Yes :oops: I misunderstood that question (I thought he was asking what operation system are there on the treo)

[packetstorm]

I don't intend to retire the HP 4700 anytime soon (unless, of course they come up with a WM5 replacement model! :roll: ).

Do you carry both devices with you or do you have specific purposes for each?

[Twain]

Packetstorm,

This is the first time that I have had a phone with PDA capabilities, so I'm still trying to decide what works and what doesn't. There are applications on the hx4700 that I don't have on the Treo and that do not have WM5 square screen capabilities. So, I don't see letting go of the hx4700 at this time. Anyhow, time will tell!

Twain

[packetstorm]

Packetstorm,

This is the first time that I have had a phone with PDA capabilities, so I'm still trying to decide what works and what doesn't. There are applications on the hx4700 that I don't have on the Treo and that do not have WM5 square screen capabilities. So, I don't see letting go of the hx4700 at this time. Anyhow, time will tell!

Twain

I am running into a similiar issue with my 6700 and hx4700. Using the 4700 mostly for media when I'm on the road and the 6700 as my phone and at work when I don't need both devices...

[juni]

I'm wondering if all WM5 devices (Pocket PCs as well as Smartphones) will be slower given the move to a different storage architecture?

Well, I got a Qtek 8310 smartphone for Xmas, and I have a hx4700 for main device.

The Qtek has less memory and is a tad bit slower than the hx4700 (the hx4700 has a much faster processor, after all), but it is really snappy compared to my old h2210 so MS must have done something right with WM5. I've put it to some extensive testing like watching full length movies on it and it works really well.

It has a 240x320 screen, and it is strangely sharp and clear. I guess this is because the screen size is smaller. The h2210's screen looks grainy and horrible compared to it.

My old phone was a P900 and I must say WM5 feels like a real OS compared to Symbian.

And one thing that I think is really great: I've only restarted the device once (something unheard of when it comes to Pocket PCs). And that only to get the fonts I installed to show up. :)

I can't really understand why Palm went with a 240x240 screen for the Treo. It wouldn't have added that much size to the device to give it at least a proper 240x320 screen (or even better, a 320x320 screen).

[pocketpcadmirer]

I can't really understand why Palm went with a 240x240 screen for the Treo. It wouldn't have added that much size to the device to give it at least a proper 240x320 screen (or even better, a 320x320 screen).

BTW,Windows mobile 5 supports only 240*240 or 480 *480 for square screen

**had they went for 480*480 display, there wud hv been more software problems. On the other hand, support for 240 pixels screen has increased

Sunny

[Darius Wey]

BTW,Windows mobile 5 supports only 240*240 or 480 *480 for square screen

With an appropriate driver, Windows Mobile 5.0 can operate fine on any resolution. Most of today's devices use a conventional display supporting 240x320, 480x640 or 240x240 (for square screens). But take, for example, the DualCor cPC. Thanks to a bit of tweaking, Windows Mobile 5.0 runs just fine on its 800 x 480 display.

**had they went for 480*480 display, there wud hv been more software problems. On the other hand, support for 240 pixels screen has increased

Developers have been advised to lift the resolution restriction on their programs, so in the event that new devices are released with not-so-conventional displays, they will still run fine on it.

[pocketpcadmirer]

Developers have been advised to lift the resolution restriction on their programs, so in the event that new devices are released with not-so-conventional displays, they will still run fine on it.

But, still, developers have to modify their app a bit. This is because if their app looks great and nice in 320*240 resolution, it may require a bit of code changing to make it view nice in 240*240.So if a new device comes in the market with 'new' resolution then again the developers have to get their handy dirty on the old application to make it compatible to the 'new' device(otherwise they're prone to loose 'that' devise's market)

My point is, there should be a standard resolution for sqaure screen..and in other words,for other screens too

Sunny

**anyway I love your posts and I support ur comments !!

[possmann]

Got mine the day it was released - the 5th - and I have to say that this is one solid first edition. As this review stated, I am sure there will be tweaking and increasing in overall features in the next editions to come, but for me? I LOVE this thing.

Given the populatirty and the form factor of these devices I think they are going to make a killing - promting more support for follow-on editions.

[jutae]

And the Treo is "for Pocket PC Phone."


So I can install the same software that I use on my Axim X50v and Ipaq 4705? I know they're not windows mobile 5 (well the Dell was but it was too buggy so I rolled it back).

[Ed Hansberry]

And the Treo is "for Pocket PC Phone."


So I can install the same software that I use on my Axim X50v and Ipaq 4705? I know they're not windows mobile 5 (well the Dell was but it was too buggy so I rolled it back).
Well, assuming the software works on WM5, yes. Most Wm2003/2003SE software should be ok.

The only caveat with the Treo is it is 240X240, just like the HP 6500 series. So, if you have some software that doesn't dynamically adjust itself, you might get some strange looking results. Windows Mobile has supported 240X240 since early 2004 but it has only been in the past 3-4 months that devices with that resolution have been out, so it is possible a given developer hasn't payed any attention to that. They will have to now.

[squeeze]

c'mon guys - as we always do complain and praise at the same time - it's just another cycle we are all going through. I for one have (had) the Samsung i730 which is in terms of paper specs - a powerhouse - memory/storage, cpu, usb/bt EVDO tethering, hacks and dlls galore.

Then I bought the Treo700w yesterday. I bought not "upgraded", because what I really wanted was a new gadget - good specs or bad specs - gadget lust took over.

At the end - I got a phone with a PDA - just what I wanted. And the only thing I have loaded is eWallet and FranklinCovey Plan Plus. All the other apps that I've paid for and downloaded took away from the device's key objective (I think) to stay pretty connected and informed - at all times. Entertainment, gaming, photo editing, DVD ripping, etc are all secondary (to me).

I for one enjoy it. You may not - but guaranteed - you want one in your greedy little hands to play with just to see how it it is how it works. We are all power users in our own right. Some will buy, others will buy and return, some will eBay, but many of you may never touch one.

[jlc61]

I picked up a 700w to see if it could replace my 650. Having used Palm and Windows PDas since the original PalmPilot and WinCE 1.0 I've watched the evolution of both OS's and developed a preference for PalmOS. periodically I find myself buying a Win device but wind up returning to PalmOS.

I found the 700w to be a mixed bag - the EVDO speed is nice, and I like the multi-tasking capabilities. I also like the addition of soft buttons for operating voice mail systems. Unfortunately I still find the OS hard to navigate - I like Palm's use of the Home button to navigate through programs and the ability to assign all the buttons to different functions. the screen also has a noticable pincushion especially at the top and sometimes the backlight doesn't turn on with the phone (it looks like that happens if it's getting data when you turn on the phone). Active Sync still doesn't recognize my device even though it shows up as a mobile device in XP.

Is it a keeper? I'm not sure. I use Goodlink on the 650 for push email from our exchange server and we don't have it for the 700w (yet) nor is our server setup for exchange active synch so I can't get corporate email on it. OTOH, I like EVDO and if Goodlink on the 700w uses the native contact / email / calender datafiles (unlike the proprietary ones they use on palmOS) I can live with its quirks.

Now, if i could just get a decent NES emulator and MAME for it like I have for the Palm...