Can YahooMusic or Napster-to-Go work on unsupported Pocket PC?

[Scott716]

Is there a way to transfer songs from either YahooMusic, Napster-to-Go or iTunes onto a Pocket PC that is not supported in their list of devices?

Specifically, I own an HP iPaq 2215. It attaches to a Windows XP computer with Windows Media 10.

Any third party software for this? Or, if I want to use portable music from those services, do I have to purchase one of the devices they recommend? (sort of a pain to carry yet another device especially when 90% of the space on my SD card is free))

[Sven Johannsen]

I haven't looked real hard, but I'd bet the PPCs on their list of supported devices all sport Pocket MP10. The DRM capability that these services demand doesn't exist in earlier version of the PPC Media player. Don't think you'll find any third party solutions that work with them either, since the DRM stuff is pretty proprietary. This is very much so on the Napster To Go service which lets you download as much as you want. They want to make sure you can't burn it, and they can cut you off when you quit subscribing.

[ADBrown]

My best advice to you would be to get your music elsewhere, ANYWHERE but those kinds of places. Rip it from a CD if you have to, but get something without DRM. You'd regret having it there in the end.

[Janak Parekh]

Is there a way to transfer songs from either YahooMusic, Napster-to-Go or iTunes onto a Pocket PC that is not supported in their list of devices?...Specifically, I own an HP iPaq 2215. It attaches to a Windows XP computer with Windows Media 10.
You cannot use the subscription download feature (e.g., Napster-To-Go, Rhapsody-To-Go, etc.) unless you have a Pocket PC with Windows Media Player 10. You can purchase individual tracks and download them to a (somewhat) older Pocket PC -- if you try this, make sure to test one track first. (Or, of course, you can purchase a track, burn it to CD, rerip it, and use the un-DRMed version.)

Or, if I want to use portable music from those services, do I have to purchase one of the devices they recommend? (sort of a pain to carry yet another device especially when 90% of the space on my SD card is free))
No, any Pocket PC with WMP10 should work. However, Janus DRM (the subscription content mechanism) is a mixed bag. I've been reviewing it extensively for the last two weeks, and I'm in the process of writing up an article, which'll probably hit this site within a week.

Short version: it has excellent promise, but the process is a quite cumbersome and somewhat buggy at the moment. Some of it stems from the fact that any DRMed WMA content (either purchased tracks or subscription content) must be synced through ActiveSync to the Pocket PC, not to a memory card directly, which adds a layer of complexity and slowness to the process. The dedicated devices might be a better experience, but I haven't tried them.

--janak

[Sven Johannsen]

Some of it stems from the fact that any DRMed WMA content (either purchased tracks or subscription content) must be synced through ActiveSync to the Pocket PC, not to a memory card directly, which adds a layer of complexity and slowness to the process. The dedicated devices might be a better experience, but I haven't tried them.

--janak

Don't they have to be sync'd thru Media player, which for the PPC uses AS as the conduit? it just means the PPC must be connected as usual, via AS, and then everything is done via MP, just like any other PlaysforSure device. That's been my experience with both PocketMP10 devices both WM2003 and WM5. Only irritant I've found is that the PPC does need to have a real partnership. A guest connection doesn't seem to work.

I'll grant the slowness, but I don't think it is much more involved than any other device, if you assume the PPC is already partnered for normal functions. Janak, you've got a Creative Muvo to campare it to don't you?

[Janak Parekh]

Don't they have to be sync'd thru Media player, which for the PPC uses AS as the conduit?
Yes, you're correct. I was being approximate in my description. In fact, you don't need to enable "media sync" in AS 4.1.

I'll grant the slowness, but I don't think it is much more involved than any other device, if you assume the PPC is already partnered for normal functions. Janak, you've got a Creative Muvo to campare it to don't you?
Yes it is, if Janus DRM is involved. I can reliably reproduce a problem where syncing breaks down every 15-25 tracks, and the only way to solve it is to uncradle the Pocket PC and recradle it (not even stop the sync and restart it works). Combine that with Janus, which limits you to a maximum of 3 syncs of any individual track per week, and you rapidly run into trouble.

The MuVo I have is not going to be enough since it: a) doesn't support Janus, and b) won't hold that many tracks. I've made some inquiries (through the usual channels) to see how isolated the problem is, and am waiting to hear back.

--janak

[Guest979]

Perhaps the question was intended to mean, "Is there a way to install WMP10 on unsupported devices?" My iPaq 1940 is curious about that one... :)

But I don't think there is a way, and it would probably involve copyright infringement (of the program itself) if there were a way. Sigh...

[Cybrid]

You cannot use the subscription download feature (e.g., Napster-To-Go, Rhapsody-To-Go, etc.) unless you have a Pocket PC with Windows Media Player 10. You can purchase individual tracks and download them to a (somewhat) older Pocket PC -- if you try this, make sure to test one track first. (Or, of course, you can purchase a track, burn it to CD, rerip it, and use the un-DRMed version.)

--janakI think thats about the only way to go.... Some of the songs i've purchased on behalf of the kids don't work on their ipaq 3630's.

I've had to un DRM them in the quick and dirty way described above.

[Janak Parekh]

I think thats about the only way to go.... Some of the songs i've purchased on behalf of the kids don't work on their ipaq 3630's.
The key phrase in that sentence was "somewhat". ;) The 36xx units are too old to support any form of WMA DRM. WM8.5 or 9 units, like the iPAQ 2215, should support purchased-track DRM, but don't support subscription DRM.

Perhaps the question was intended to mean, "Is there a way to install WMP10 on unsupported devices?" My iPaq 1940 is curious about that one... :)
The problem with that is even if you could find a way to rip WMP10 out of ROM and onto another device, it wouldn't support the subscription DRM. As far as I know, Janus DRM requires hardware (or at least OS-level) support.

--janak

[Sven Johannsen]

Yes it is, if Janus DRM is involved. I can reliably reproduce a problem where syncing breaks down every 15-25 tracks, and the only way to solve it is to uncradle the Pocket PC and recradle it (not even stop the sync and restart it works). --janak

Ah, OK. Bit more involved than I typically deal with. I have a handful of regular Napster DRMd songs (not the ToGo stuff), that seem to work as expected. I can get them onto my SD card, in the PPC via MP10, and they work fine, but I can't move that SD card and play them or copy them to a different card/internal memory. That's as expected. Don't have a problem transferring 512M of songs even if those ones are included.

Predominantly though I buy CDs and rip them. Even the Napster ones, I have written to audio CD and re-ripped, because I hate @#$%^ DRM. It only annoys the honest folks and does nothing to stop the dishonest ones.