Do You Use Infrared?

[Ed Hansberry]

In Darius' excellent <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/articles.php?action=expand,44578">review of the E-Ten M600</a> the first thing that jumped out at me was that there is no IR port on the device. I am not sure if it is the first Pocket PC without an IR port or not, but it is the first one I've heard of, other than industrial devices like Symbol makes.<br /><br />To this day, I make sure my laptops have IR on them and even though I don't IR sync much as bluetooth and USB are both faster <i>(as is WiFi but the lack of WiFi sync is another rant altogether :? )</i> I do frequently beam files off of my laptop to my Pocket PC and back since a simple IR squirt is much faster for smaller files than waiting for ActiveSync to get up and running. Of course, IR is much easier to send data to other devices than bluetooth is, especially as a one time shot of contacts or a file or two. That alone would keep me from seriously considering the M600. Note too that some of you have a foldable IR keyboard that obviously wouldn't work with the M600, and this eliminates any possibility of using the PDA as a TV remote. I did that one time to see how it worked and never again. I know some of you though love the Nevo type software. Am I in the minority though on the importance of IR today?

[piperpilot]

The only thing I use IR for is Nevo, especially since my husband like to hog the remote. :wink:

[KTamas]

Why did no one tell me before that that red thingey at the left side of my PDA can be used for transmitting data? I disassembled my PDA2K and used it to make my Bluetooth LED purple, by glueing the red plastic onto the blue LED... :oops: :roll:

[dgmessenger]

Don't mean to be a stickler :wink: , but the correct phrase for the second sentence of statement 4 "Never or almost never. I could care less about IR." should be "I couldn't care less..."

If one could care less, then there is still some caring left in them. :)

[Sven Johannsen]

Last time I tried to use IR was to beam a contact to a colleague. Futzed with it for a while and couldn't get the devices to talk. We popped up BT had had it done post haste.

Only thing that has ever had any interest to me with IR is printing, and that is rare.

[Phillip Dyson]

IR is one of those things that I always mean to use but haven't gotten around to. So if a device didn't have it, I'd probably complain.

But if you called me on it, I'd have to back down.

Remote control is something that I think about more and more as my Home Theatre PC set up is realized over time.

[dbrahms]

If more offices had IR capable printers, I would use it more.

[Don't Panic!]

I use it mostly for remote control. Surprisingly one of the fun things an Samsung SCH i730 can do is act as a decent TV remote. Not as good as the iPaqs with NEVO but decent.

[Janak Parekh]

To this day, I make sure my laptops have IR on them
It's probably Sony's fault, but I've gotten used to laptops without IR (in my defense, this was some time ago; I'd never buy a Sony laptop now post-DRM-evil). For file transfer, I use my Sandisk SD Ultra II card with an embedded USB connector. Works great. And as for an IR keyboard, I'd much rather use a BT keyboard.

&lt;shrug> The one thing I've done with IR on nearly every Pocket PC is to turn off beam receive, and that's been it. I see the value of beaming for business card exchange, but the human interaction protocol (HIP? ;)) still suggests paper cards, which I then proceed to type in and tear up. I've only occasionally done IR send/receive with others for fun, and not anytime in the last 2-3 years.

The notion of a remote control is interesting to me, but on many of the newer Pocket PCs, the position of IR is in a bizarre place, making it unintuitive, and the strengths vary greatly. I guess I could use my old iPAQ for a remote control, but the battery's just about dead... and I'm tempted by this (admittedly freaking expensive) remote control (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/detailsharmony/US/EN,CRID=2084,CONTENTID=10930). :drool: (They do have cheaper units, too.)

--janak

[JonnoB]

I have an older HP 2215 that I used with Nevo quite a bit. With my new QTek9100 (HTC Wizard), I do not use my PPC for that anymore. I do however, occasionally still need IR. Mostly to send a business card or to beam a file. Not all devices have BT and IR is the lowest common denominator. Not to mention the Wizard does not support BT OBEX yet.

[pocketpcadmirer]

Well I dont use infrared at all. Bluetooth..yes, I do use it frequently when my sister is using my PC by performing bluetooth activesync and thus sharing the broadband connection. I also use bluetooth for sharing ringtones with my friends :D

But infrared is so 'passe'. Its slow speed is a big turn off.

Sunny

[pocketpcadmirer]

Why did no one tell me before that that red thingey at the left side of my PDA can be used for transmitting data? I disassembled my PDA2K and used it to make my Bluetooth LED purple, by glueing the red plastic onto the blue LED... :oops: :roll:

Ktmas u r indeed crazy..how can u 'play' with such expensive thingy ?? :?

[Dyvim]

I don't use it all that often, but I gotta have the IR for use with a foldable IR keyboard.

I know I could get a BT keyboard, but
(1) why should I upgrade to a more expensive BT keyboard if my cheap IR keyboard works fine?
(2) IR keyboard uses less energy on both the keyboard and the device than BT
(3) IR keyboard works instantly without any fussing around turning on BT and trying to pair the device and keyboard
(4) Toshiba BT doesn't work with BT keyboards (stupid Toshiba BT stack...)
(5) IR keyboard is compatible with devices without BT, so I'd rather have just 1 keyboard that works with all my Pocket PCs

[Darius Wey]

I voted the third option. As ancient as IR is, I think it's great for beaming small files. Using Bluetooth for that is just such a pain to set up. And of course, not every device has Bluetooth.

This is one of the major gripes I have with the M600. No IR and my laziness with Bluetooth means my SD card has now become my primary method of file transfer between the M600 and another device. It might not be efficient, but at least it's fast.

[alizhan]

If one could care less, then there is still some caring left in them. :)

I agree with you, but modern English does not. "I could care less" has been recognized as a valid (if nonsensical) idiomatic variation of "I couldn't care less" for several years now. English abounds with such travesties--that's partly what makes it English. It pains me every time some catchy but misleading, nonsensical, or just plain wrong turn of phrase becomes popular and entrenched, but such is nature of an actively evolving language. Especially in American culture, where the language is intentionally mutilated on a daily basis for marketing purposes.

Prescriptivists like you and me are in for a rough ride. :roll:

[biglouis]

I'm with Darius. It must be a generational thing.

I would definitely be completely indifferent about a PPC or smartphone without Bluetooth but good-old-reliable, easy to use, always works without a hiccough IrDA to connect PDAs to laptops, PCs or other phones is, for me, a must.

Bluetooth is over engineered, buggy, temperamental and unreliable.

Irda is none of those things. And fortunately it is one of the few instances in the IT-world where "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" seems to apply.

Mind you, try explaining that to the young people of today and they won't believe you (sigh!).

LouisB

[Loki Gelfling]

I use it for 3 reasons:

1) Beaming to/receiving from people with Palms or Phones that only have infrared

2) Quick laptop/desktop transfers

3) I broke one of the pins on my e740 and can't USB sync anymore. I WiFi sync (except at work, where WiFi is not allowed :wink: ), but in the case of a hard reset or if ActiveSync over WiFi is acting flakey, I need IR capability to resync once before I AirSync. This is a dealbreaker for me, especially since the removal of WiFi sync in WM5/ActiveSync 4.x. My next PDA has to have another sync method other than a cable.

[ADBrown]

"I could care less" has been recognized as a valid (if nonsensical) idiomatic variation of "I couldn't care less" for several years now. English abounds with such travesties--that's partly what makes it English. It pains me every time some catchy but misleading, nonsensical, or just plain wrong turn of phrase becomes popular and entrenched, but such is nature of an actively evolving language. Especially in American culture, where the language is intentionally mutilated on a daily basis for marketing purposes.

"English is a language that lurks in dark alleys, beats up other languages and rifles through their pockets for spare vocabulary."

[hamishmacdonald]

On topic: I beamed a JPEG between my Smartphone and my Pocket PC today, the first time I've beamed anything in a while. I used IR because the Smartphone doesn't have an option in the file explorer for sending via Bluetooth. Given my experience trying to get these two devices -- which supposedly share an OS -- to talk, I wouldn't have expected it to work anyway. File exchange was smoother between my PPC and my old Sony Ericsson mobile, which is just silly.

Totally off-topic: I'm with the first poster about "could care less". Just because it's become common doesn't mean it suddenly makes sense. No, the words still don't mean that, no matter how many people are saying it or who "recognises" it.

Instead of breaking tired idioms to make them seem fresh, we should come up with useful new English expressions, like one for the goosefleshy sound of a knife cutting through styrofoam. Then I can apply that word to the way I feel when I read Friends-y expressions like:
- "I could care less"
- "How [whatever] was that?"
- "I'm all about the [whatevers]."

George Orwell suggested "Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print." I would add "...or hearing on television."

P.S. Who else fell for that fake Nevo IR software offered a few weeks back? I didn't use that program much on my iPAQ 2210, but it was pretty, and I liked having the potential to control other devices with my Pocket PC. Maybe the numbers of sales of the scam and the number of subsequent tech support queries will make them consider a broader release of the package. Nah, probably not.

[Gen-M]

Am I in the minority though on the importance of IR today?

Yes :?

I never found a use for it (or rather, it was too much of a bother to line up the ports for me to use :roll: )

[Craig Horlacher]

It's the only common wireless technology that seems to be standard.

I use ir sometimes to get an active sync connection from my pocket pc to my laptop. I can also use ir to send contacts from my pocket pc to my phone. I can ir them from my phone to my pocket pc also but I use bluetooth for that. I can't figure out how to bluetooth contacts from my pocket pc to my phone. - in other words bluetooth only seems to go one way between my phone and pocket pc for contacts but I can ir contacts both ways:)

And I'll say again how much I hate the fact that human interface device drivers are not standard on bluetooth devices. I can't use my bluetooth keyboard with either my pocket pc or my phone and that's just stupid!!! Sony T637 phone and toshiba e830 pocket pc. Sorry, I guess that's a little off topic.

[nic]

I sync via IR with my laptop all the time. It works great, and I don't need extra cabels. I think IR is much less of a hassle to setup verses Bluetooth as well, although bluetooth is faster. But that isn't an option on my Laptop, so whatever.

Also, if i were going to "beam a contact" to another persons PDA then I would totally use IR over Bluetooth, just because I know there won't be any hassle invovled with getting it setup.

[ctmagnus]

I used IR sync before I got the Bluetooth module installed in my Tablet PC. It's slow as 4377, but it works. Between the two, I greatly prefer Bluetooth. I :ppclove: Bluetooth!

[isilver]

I have used it exactly once, but it really made my year because of that one time. I was trying to get my laptop working and I was sent a file by Microsoft that I had to run on the computer. No drives working, no internet, but I had to do something.

I copied the file to my pocketpc which I then transfered through to the infared port of my computer and it fixed the problem. I may never use the infared port again but if i didn't have it that day I would have had to reformat my computer.

[Ed Hansberry]

Don't mean to be a stickler :wink: , but the correct phrase for the second sentence of statement 4 "Never or almost never. I could care less about IR." should be "I couldn't care less..."
Yeah, I've been told that on more than one occasion. My response is I could care less (http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ico1.htm). :mrgreen:

[callmemoe]

The only thing I use it for is with my old Palm Universal Wireless keyboard since it also works with my ppc.

[atrain]

^ Ditto that... Got a palm wireless uni k/b, and lovin it...

I'm on an Axim X5, so i could have a BT card in, or my Wifi card in (I will use SD when i finaly get an SD card, hopefully soon, to hold downloads)


About the blinky light issue... i dont think it would be too hard to set up a little relay to make an led next to the ir led thing blink....


IR seems like a nice standard, expecialy because i dont have to spend 5 hours getting it working, like my BT card (Note: I have no BT hardware, except for the CF card. I got a WIFI CF card in june, and I finaly got one other device (borrowed b router) begining of november...)

[buss]

1) To sync with my laptop on the road when I forget to pack the cable (too often)

2) Printing on the road (you would be surprised how many will allow you to print a quick document when you ask, they are amazed since usually they don't know that it can be done)

3) It was lifesaver once when I needed a IR remote control for a satellite recevier box and the remote was broken. A coworker emailed the data and I was able to re-program the IRD.

Seldom used, maybe. Useless, No Way!

[Gerard]

I don't 'sync' my Pocket PCs with my notebook (my only PC) except when it's time to install a newer version of TextMaker, or to do a ROM upgrade (no risk of any more of those for my X5). Since I do zero Outlook stuff or other PIM on the PC, there'd be no point synching. TM's the only program I run which cannot be installed via CAB or standalone. Takes a while over infrared, but I just kick it off and walk away. No point moving the notebook and the Axim's cradle just for an install. For the ROM upgrades I've done on this and other PPCs I resort to the cradle, but otherwise that just serves as a charging and typing stand right in front of my folding infrared keyboard.

Been using infrared keyboards for a couple of years now, first a Targus, then the current Belkin. Great little things, very flexible as to model of device and arrangement of locations relative to the kb. I use a tiny optical cable with a couple of custom clips to connect, something which can be rolled up and tossed in a bag or a pocket. Typing needs no stand when I'm away from home. The Dell usually sits closer to me on a table in such cases, between my wrists as I type.

I have the notebook and PPC 'talk' to eachother frequently for smaller file transfers, using Quickbeam on the Win98SE side (no OBEX infrared before XP apparently), and Resco or TotalCommanderCE on the PPC side. For larger transfers either way Wi-Fi is faster, and so worth the time doing the passworded connection thing.

My next PPC, a WM2003SE Toshiba e800 due Friday, has infrared as well. I'd likely consider a non-Ir device some day, but hope not to have to make that choice. Even if it's just for the odd infrared connection with a family member's cellphone to share a snapshot, it's worth having. One of the more universal protocols, even more so than USB in the mobile world - that's a dig at the USB standard article the other day, which really isn't much of a standard where PPC/WM is concerned so far.

Oh, and then there are the times when infrared is the perfect thing for beaming a small app or CAB to a fellow WM user, rather than doing a potentially risky card swap or using email which is somewhat more cumberrsome.

Lots of uses for infrared. I can't see why a manufacturer would be dropping a wireless standard these days, especially when so much of the marketing is about connectivity options.

[aNiMeMaN14]

I don't use it all that often, but I gotta have the IR for use with a foldable IR keyboard.

I know I could get a BT keyboard, but
(1) why should I upgrade to a more expensive BT keyboard if my cheap IR keyboard works fine?
(2) IR keyboard uses less energy on both the keyboard and the device than BT
(3) IR keyboard works instantly without any fussing around turning on BT and trying to pair the device and keyboard

exactly. :)

[Gerard]

Less energy... which reminds me; I last changed the single 'AA' cell in my Belkin keyboard about 4 months ago. I write thousands of words per day on that thing, sometimes over 10,000. That's one efficient keyboard! Still, I miss the big old Stowaway. It'd be great to have a full-scale 5-row Stowaway infrared. That'd get used to death, whereupon I'd buy another just like it.

[rdecker]

I use it mostly for remote control. Surprisingly one of the fun things an Samsung SCH i730 can do is act as a decent TV remote. Not as good as the iPaqs with NEVO but decent.

I found the iPaq did not have enough power on the IR port to control devices from any good distance so NEVO was worthless for me. The old Sony CLIE devices had excellent range.

[powder2000]

If it came with CIR or whatever you call it to change channels, I would use it all the time.

[Don't Panic!]

I found the iPaq did not have enough power on the IR port to control devices from any good distance so NEVO was worthless for me. The old Sony CLIE devices had excellent range.How far away were you trying to reach. The Compaq 3975 and the HP2215 I have with NEVO will work across a classroom setup for 25 adults so at least 30 feet.

[FormerMVP]

I'm one of the developers of MySportTraining (www.MySportTraining.com) and one add-on we provide is the ability to download from a Polar heart rate monitor (HRM) right into a Pocket PC (or Palm) (some of the Polar HRM have infrared capabilities). The problem we early realized is that despite having an infrared port, many Pocket PC (and Palm OS) devices provide a "lousy" IrDA stack, making those devices incompatible with other IR-capable devices. As a result, IR never caught up because of that incompatibility that has existed for a long time. Case in point, all OMAP-based PDAs cannot transmit data over serial infrared (SIR), despite being a key part of an IrDA stack. Another example: some PPCs today require Bluetooth to be ON in order to allow the infrared port to operate in serial infrared mode (because turning Bluetooth ON properly sets up the serial driver and enables it to work with IR). I think manufacturers should pay enough attention and provide fully IrDA-capable infrared ports because it turns out to be quite useful in some applications (read the previous posts for some examples), and is cheap to implement.

[dgmessenger]

Don't mean to be a stickler :wink: , but the correct phrase for the second sentence of statement 4 "Never or almost never. I could care less about IR." should be "I couldn't care less..."
Yeah, I've been told that on more than one occasion. My response is I could care less (http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ico1.htm). :mrgreen:

Touché Ed. :wink: However, it is encouraging to know that you do have some caring left in you about the use of this phrase. :devilboy:

[CTSLICK]

Still use it and it might still be a deal breaker because:

1) I have a perfectly good IR keyboard. Plus, an IR keyboard leaves my BT available for connecting to the internet via my phone.

2) Transferring Appointments with my wife's PDA (Toshiba E310). Until someone figures out an inexpensive way for me to selectively sync specific items or categories on my Mac IR continues to be the only way.

Next product needed, BT based PDA to PDA synch software...

[surfer]

Don't use it and am not planning to either . I've never really seen the idea with IR.

[Ed Hansberry]

(2) IR keyboard uses less energy on both the keyboard and the device than BT
Do you have anything to back this up? I've never seen stats on it but I would think it would take more power to process a beam of light, even one outside of our visible spectrum, than to process a radio frequency. I know my battery life goes down way faster if I leave "receive IR Beam" checked vs having BT on all day.

http://www.baracoda.com/baracoda/technologie/technologie.php seems to indicate a strenght of BT over IR is low energy consumption.

[Ed Hansberry]

Touché Ed. :wink: However, it is encouraging to know that you do have some caring left in you about the use of this phrase. :devilboy:
Or that the scarcasm in my reply means I really don't have caring left. :way to go:

Either way.... I could really care less. :lol:

[rdecker]

I found the iPaq did not have enough power on the IR port to control devices from any good distance so NEVO was worthless for me. The old Sony CLIE devices had excellent range.How far away were you trying to reach. The Compaq 3975 and the HP2215 I have with NEVO will work across a classroom setup for 25 adults so at least 30 feet.

______________
I have a 2215; maybe the unit is hosed up but I couldn't control much over 10 feet.

[alizhan]

Touché Ed. :wink: However, it is encouraging to know that you do have some caring left in you about the use of this phrase. :devilboy:
Or that the scarcasm in my reply means I really don't have caring left. :way to go:

Either way.... I could really care less. :lol:

Either way? So you're saying that you couldn't care less about caring less? Or that you could care less about not caring less? Or maybe that you could care less about really caring less, but hide your cares behind a veil of carefully chosen words? :huh: I'm so terribly confused.

Sorry. Couldn't resist. ;)

[bnycastro]

I use IR for devices without bt or card slots [i.e. nokia phones]. it's quite useful also when you're in public... where alot of people just leave their Bluetooth on [even if they don't use it] and this really makes BT sending a hassle [but this is a diff matter].

[Steve Jordan]

The few people I know who have a PPC device (and they're all Palms, while I use a Toshiba) had no idea how to use IR, and my laptop doesn't have it... so I've never had the chance to try it.

I only recently started to consider using the PPC as a remote, but I haven't downloaded the software yet.

If my phone had IR, would I be able to IR PIM stuff into it? That would be cool--IF I had a phone with IR.

[TopDog]

I sometimes sync my PPC with my laptop with IrDa when on the road lacking my cable.

I find it easier and faster than turning on bluetooth on both devices, discovering, and then syncronizing. If it works... it doesn't always.