Verizon XV6700 Coming Soon, With Crippled WiFi?

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.pdaphonehome.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60342' target='_blank'>http://www.pdaphonehome.com/forums/...&threadid=60342</a><br /><br /></div>A poster on pdaPhoneHome.com apparently got his hands on Verizon's version of the Apache, and posted a pair of quick snapshots up. The unit looks exactly the same as Sprint's, except for the black finish.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/parekh-20051117-XV6700.jpg" /><br /><br />Now, the bad news: the poster reported that turning on WiFi turned off the phone portion of the device, which sounds like the exact same behavior as the Samsung i730 on Verizon. 8O I guess Verizon is requiring this as a matter of course on all WiFi+phone devices on their network, which really <i>really</i> annoys me. In fact, I would have been excited about this device a few months ago, but right now I'm tempted to switch to Cingular when their version of the HTC Wizard comes out (rumored to be around the end of this month) -- I think I'll live without EVDO if it means uncrippled Bluetooth, WiFi, and a plan that actually lets me legally tether the phone (via BT <i>or</i> USB) to a laptop. Verizon's policies are just too frustrating. :evil:

[powder2000]

Don't you think they are doing this for the not so techie people who don't know any different and would likely leave both on, thus waisting batteries? Just a question. I would have to be very convinced to switch to Verizon even if there service in my area is superior to Cingular. The bluetooth thing is frustrating and not so understandable though.

[DaleReeck]

Actually, the I730 issue with WiFi turning the phone off was crushed over at pdaphonehoime.com. A simple DLL hack takes care of that little annoyance. I'm sure the guys at xda-developers.com will take care of it when the time comes :)

[Ed Hansberry]

Actually, the I730 issue with WiFi turning the phone off was crushed over at pdaphonehoime.com. A simple DLL hack takes care of that little annoyance. I'm sure the guys at xda-developers.com will take care of it when the time comes :)

Indeed. http://www.pdaphonehome.com/forums/showthread.php?s=c4b9de61a50bf78e7c977f4d09a13a7e&amp;threadid=58613&amp;perpage=20&amp;pagenumber=1

Nice. :D

[packetstorm]

I would never use Verizon. Period. How many times have we seen this same kind of action taken by them. Leave the device alone!!

Currently I am using the same device with Sprint. Nothing is crippled. I know there are ppl who have had issues with them in the past but at least they seem to be exercising a bit of common sense recently with regards to PDA devices with WiFi, Bluetooth and EV-DO.

[dbrahms]

with the phone off during wi-fi use, it limits people's ability to connect multiple pc's/laptops to the device to share the EVDO connection.

[Scott R]

This color combo is ugly. The all-silver (super-fake "metallic" silver) paint job of the PPC-6700 was bad, but I think this may be worse. I think there was an old design they had which had a silver front and a black keyboard. Too bad no one made use of that design. I'd prefer all-black (or dark gray). These phoney-looking silver paint jobs have been overdone.

[pocketpcadmirer]

This is cheating..firstly they lure people by such great devices..and when they start using them they come to know that it lacks some functionality which the 'original' one offers.

This not only burns a hole in the pocket but also burns the WHOLE shirt !!

SUnny

[Carlos]

I think as consumers we need to avoid companies that have anti-consumer tactics, like Verizon. I've got the Sprint version of the phone, and it works perfectly. We have two PPC6700s on Sprint, a Verizon data card, and a Verizon phone. In general I'm seeing better signal quality (real measured, not bars which are meaningless) and slightly higher speed on Sprint in my area.

[MPSmith]

No worries on all those little annoyances. There is a hack or a quick fix for all of them. Just visit your friends at pdaphonehome.com!!!

Go to the FAQ's on the i730 forum for all the answers.

VZ has some great data/phone plans. I'll stay with 'em. :)

[trog]

I hate to swim upstream against the current on this, but I understand why they do it. Simply, tower space. The pricing for data on these devices is set to take into consideration the kind of network draw they use. By allowing you to use it as a modem for your laptop, the bandwidth draw goes up considerably. This results in poor/blocked service for the other people in that area. There is only so much space on a radio/channel to go around and due to nature of cellular, you can only put so many radios in an area. The higher cost for an aircard keeps the number of users down, thus not creating an over-capacity issue on the network. I think in some but not all cases it is foresight. Overselling the capacity for the voice/data traffic is what you see far too often in other companies.

[Janak Parekh]

Don't you think they are doing this for the not so techie people who don't know any different and would likely leave both on, thus waisting batteries?
No, I don't. Considering most devices have different flashing lights, and that WiFi is off by default, the professional buying this device is going to pay a premium for that WiFi. Why restrict us?

No worries on all those little annoyances. There is a hack or a quick fix for all of them. Just visit your friends at pdaphonehome.com!!!
Yeah, saw that. :) As an i600 and an i700 owner, the pdaPhoneHome forums have been a valuable resource, and the folks there are amazing. It's just that I'd rather not rely on hacks unless I don't have a choice -- how long will it take for a hack for the XV6700 to be released? Or when the WM5 upgrade for the i730 is released? Mind you, if Cingular's coverage ends up poor for me, I'll probably end up waiting for it. I'm just expressing my frustration that we're treated like this. Heck, I'm not even complaining about Verizon's price policies -- the flexibility is more important to me.

Also, question for the i730 readers amongst you -- I've been reading increasing reports of Verizon cracking down on heavy EVDO users who tether their cell phones to their laptops using the unlimited PDA/Smartphone plan. Unfortunately, Verizon doesn't offer the unlimited laptop EVDO plan for tethering with a phone -- they only do it for PC cards. What do you guys do? Not use EVDO with a laptop, or only sparingly? Laptop data is important to me, primarily when I travel; if EDGE works, it'd be good enough as it should be a bit faster than my existing 1xRTT setup.

--janak

[Janak Parekh]

I hate to swim upstream against the current on this, but I understand why they do it. Simply, tower space. The pricing for data on these devices is set to take into consideration the kind of network draw they use. By allowing you to use it as a modem for your laptop, the bandwidth draw goes up considerably...The higher cost for an aircard keeps the number of users down, thus not creating an over-capacity issue on the network.
No -- I wish it was that simple.

1. The PC cards are actually cheaper than Smartphones or Pocket PC phones on Verizon, usually by several hundred dollars.

2. I'm willing to pay the $59.99/month laptop plan. But Verizon won't sell it with a phone -- only with the PC cards. I have an officemate who tried, very, very hard to get a tethered setup, and they flat-out refuse.

--janak

[Janak Parekh]

I would never use Verizon. Period. How many times have we seen this same kind of action taken by them. Leave the device alone!!...Currently I am using the same device with Sprint. Nothing is crippled. I know there are ppl who have had issues with them in the past but at least they seem to be exercising a bit of common sense recently with regards to PDA devices with WiFi, Bluetooth and EV-DO.
I would have picked up the PPC-6700 with Sprint in a heartbeat, but their coverage is poor at both my home and workplaces. :( That's the big thing going for Verizon -- fast EVDO support and pretty darn good coverage in the NY metro area.

--janak

[MPSmith]

I feel your pain Janak and agree with you 99%. I guess I just feel these work-arounds are a very small price to pay.

With a little bit of effort, I've now got a fantastic convergent device!

[Janak Parekh]

I feel your pain Janak and agree with you 99%. I guess I just feel these work-arounds are a very small price to pay...With a little bit of effort, I've now got a fantastic convergent device!
Yes, the i730 is sweet. It's also tempting for me because all my i6/700 accessories would work with it, and the community is great. I'll be keeping an eye on it, despite my rants, when I consider my next PDA phone in a couple weeks.

--janak

[dbrahms]

I think as consumers we need to avoid companies that have anti-consumer tactics, like Verizon. I've got the Sprint version of the phone, and it works perfectly. We have two PPC6700s on Sprint, a Verizon data card, and a Verizon phone. In general I'm seeing better signal quality (real measured, not bars which are meaningless) and slightly higher speed on Sprint in my area.

You have to realize that Verizon offers EVDO knowing it will profit from it. It they provided technology that would shot themselves in the foot, it would be silly. If they enabled wi-fi and EVDO connectivity at the same time, you know some 16 year hot shot will write an app that allows EVDO sharing over WiFi with the device. It people like this that force Verizon to implement restrictions.

Just think, someone could install one of these in a limo, bus, train etc and offer "free wi-fi" while in transit. Cool idea but Verizon gets beat.

[dbrahms]

I think as consumers we need to avoid companies that have anti-consumer tactics, like Verizon. I've got the Sprint version of the phone, and it works perfectly. We have two PPC6700s on Sprint, a Verizon data card, and a Verizon phone. In general I'm seeing better signal quality (real measured, not bars which are meaningless) and slightly higher speed on Sprint in my area.

You have to realize that Verizon offers EVDO knowing it will profit from it. It they provided technology that would shot themselves in the foot, it would be silly. If they enabled wi-fi and EVDO connectivity at the same time, you know some 16 year hot shot will write an app that allows EVDO sharing over WiFi with the device. It people like this that force Verizon to implement restrictions.

Just think, someone could install one of these in a limo, bus, train etc and offer "free wi-fi" while in transit. Cool idea but Verizon gets beat.

Of course you could still connect the phone to a wi-fi router/laptop and share the connection.

[MitchellO]

Actually, the I730 issue with WiFi turning the phone off was crushed over at pdaphonehoime.com. A simple DLL hack takes care of that little annoyance. I'm sure the guys at xda-developers.com will take care of it when the time comes :)

Exactly my thought. I bet it will be a software thing, and either a patch or loading another variant of thr HTC Apache ROM will unlock it to do both at once. I would find WiFi unusable a lot of the time on my KJAM if it disabled the phone.

[bvkeen]

I feel your pain Janak and agree with you 99%. I guess I just feel these work-arounds are a very small price to pay...With a little bit of effort, I've now got a fantastic convergent device!
Yes, the i730 is sweet. It's also tempting for me because all my i6/700 accessories would work with it, and the community is great. I'll be keeping an eye on it, despite my rants, when I consider my next PDA phone in a couple weeks.

--janak

I'm keeping my eye on it, too. A friend has the 730 and loves it, and despite Verizon's hassles with WiFi, I'm tiring of Cingular's coverage. Now that I see that the 730 can be hacked, I may go ahead and jump, or I may wait to see if the 6700 can "be fixed." [Chances are I'll jump soon, as I have virtually zero patience anymore]. I guess all I'm saying is that coverage area is at the top of the list for me, and I'm also ready for a converged device.

[Janak Parekh]

I'm keeping my eye on it, too. A friend has the 730 and loves it, and despite Verizon's hassles with WiFi, I'm tiring of Cingular's coverage. Now that I see that the 730 can be hacked, I may go ahead and jump, or I may wait to see if the 6700 can "be fixed." [Chances are I'll jump soon, as I have virtually zero patience anymore].
I would have jumped already, except that WM5 isn't on the i730 yet. The 6700 would ship with WM5, which makes it attractive in that regard. I also like the idea of the landscape keyboard, since the buttons are bigger. The i730 ain't bad, but the buttons do feel a bit small.

I guess all I'm saying is that coverage area is at the top of the list for me, and I'm also ready for a converged device.
Coverage is always the most important thing. Apparently, Cingular has finally integrated the AT&amp;T network fully in New York, so I'm going to give it a shot. As it stands, Verizon works great at home but only so-so in the office (works fine at my desk, but not everywhere else), so I'll have to play around for a bit before I figure out the ultimate solution.

--janak

[Janak Parekh]

Of course you could still connect the phone to a wi-fi router/laptop and share the connection.
Right, and this is far greater a problem than someone writing NAT routing code for the Pocket PC. Besides, a Pocket PC isn't going to last long as an access point; sustained WiFi and EVDO will kill the battery very rapidly. I just don't want to have to suspend the phone, in case I do get a call while I'm surfing on WiFi.

--janak

[bvkeen]

I'm keeping my eye on it, too. A friend has the 730 and loves it, and despite Verizon's hassles with WiFi, I'm tiring of Cingular's coverage. Now that I see that the 730 can be hacked, I may go ahead and jump, or I may wait to see if the 6700 can "be fixed." [Chances are I'll jump soon, as I have virtually zero patience anymore].
I would have jumped already, except that WM5 isn't on the i730 yet. The 6700 would ship with WM5, which makes it attractive in that regard. I also like the idea of the landscape keyboard, since the buttons are bigger. The i730 ain't bad, but the buttons do feel a bit small.

I guess all I'm saying is that coverage area is at the top of the list for me, and I'm also ready for a converged device.
Coverage is always the most important thing. Apparently, Cingular has finally integrated the AT&amp;T network fully in New York, so I'm going to give it a shot. As it stands, Verizon works great at home but only so-so in the office (works fine at my desk, but not everywhere else), so I'll have to play around for a bit before I figure out the ultimate solution.

--janak

Thanks for the feedback in both areas, Janak. I guess I should have the patience to watch some reviews of WM5 use in a converged device, which is what it is primarily designed for. I know I've been disenchanted with it on my x51v, because a lot of my previous single tap operations are now multiple tap operations. But, it might be more appealing in button operation than in tap operation. So, I guess I should really absorb some reviews.

It's good to hear that Cingular has finished recoding the AT&amp;T satellites. Cingular gives me great service in Atlanta but it bit the bullet in the hills of TN last week (where comrades were at least occasionally getting Verizon service). But that could just be that the GSM frequencies are not as mountain tolerant.

Thanks again for giving me reasons to be more patient than my normal nature is.

[Pinnacle]

Word is that Verizon will allow EVDO tethering with the new Blackberry coming out in the coming days, the 7130. It will only connect through USB, but you can use that device as a modem instead of the PC Card for the $59.99 monthly charge.

In the images of the brochure for that device on some boards, it's actually listed as a feature of this phone.

[griph]

This color combo is ugly.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! Personally I think the contrast between the black and silver looks pretty cool! For me the issue is that damn horrible external aerial! if they got rid of it - I'd buy it!

[MitchellO]

Yeah, the antenna on the Apache looks HUGE!!!

[MG]

More pictures over at pdahonehome now and the wifi, cell radio issue has already been hacked and appears to be working without problems. The back of the phone is also black. It actually looks pretty good.

Mark

Edit to add link

http://pdaphonehome.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=60448

[Racer-X]

This color combo is ugly.
I guess everyone has their own idea of what color combos look good and what color combos look bad (http://www.tapland.com).

[wirelessbeachbum]

2. I'm willing to pay the $59.99/month laptop plan. But Verizon won't sell it with a phone -- only with the PC cards. I have an officemate who tried, very, very hard to get a tethered setup, and they flat-out refuse.

--janak

Verizon is a "for profit" company, in the past they could not tell the difference between PDA network traffic and a tethered device, so they didn't officially support it. (you could download modem drivers to enable this with most of the pda's, but they pulled back from offering them.) The inital release of the i600 had a modem driver on the installation disk, they later removed that.

They have now implemented changes to the network, phones and billing system so they can monitor usage, and when the new BB comes out it will be the first pda to be offered with a "tethered plan option", my understanding is it will cost extra, but most people that want to tether and geet EVDO will pay.

Also since EVDO is "DO" data only, you can still recieve voice calls while tethered.

I personally don't care that the wifi is "crippled" it's nice to have, but I don't by a phone edition device to worry about wifi. Most applications can be done well over 1xrtt, and EVDO. Then again when shopping for a house a requirement for me was strong Verizon Coverage...I haven't used my home access point in about a year.

[Carlos]

Verizon refuses to cell a data plan with a phone, but it works anyway. They can't stop you. I went into a store and proved this, then asked them to sell me the proper data plan. They really tried, but couldn't do it in the system. The net result is that I have unlimited data for $15, because that's the most they could charge me on a phone. I tried to be honest and pay what's fair, but they can't do it.

[MPSmith]

Verizon refuses to cell a data plan with a phone, but it works anyway. They can't stop you. I went into a store and proved this, then asked them to sell me the proper data plan. They really tried, but couldn't do it in the system. The net result is that I have unlimited data for $15, because that's the most they could charge me on a phone. I tried to be honest and pay what's fair, but they can't do it.

I don't understand what you mean when you say "it works anyway". From your post, it seems they tried but couldn't set you up with the "proper data plan". If that is so, how did you get unlimited data for $15? And how is that the most they could charge you?

It seems you are saying they could do it and later saying they couldn't do it. Could you clarify?

[wirelessbeachbum]

Verizon refuses to cell a data plan with a phone, but it works anyway. They can't stop you. I went into a store and proved this, then asked them to sell me the proper data plan. They really tried, but couldn't do it in the system. The net result is that I have unlimited data for $15, because that's the most they could charge me on a phone. I tried to be honest and pay what's fair, but they can't do it.

Do you have an EVDO phone?

[blazingwolf]

I spoke to a Verizon rep today and I got to play around with this phone for about 15 minutes. It is a very nice device. Small in the hand but it has a very nice screen (I have an Axim X50v now but it looked good even compared to this). Keyboard slides out very nicely. Screen rotation only takes a second or 2. The keboard was easy to type on (I tried it in a word file).

I must say the color of the phone looks good in person.

I was told by the rep that this phone will be able to tether similar to the new BlackBerry. Tethering should add another $15 dollars to the data plan.

I was surprised at the speeed of the device despite only having the 416 Mhz processor. Menus were very snappy.

The abilty of WM5 to be one handed works very well on this device. The placment of the D-Pad (can I call it that since it is more of a really small joy stick) is perfect. It allows easy movement through the menus as well as depressing it for the enter function. The start button and Ok button on the front and in the keyboard make it very easy to use one handed also.

The rep wouldn't tell me an exact date of release but he did say that it would be one of the next devices released so I am hoping it will be soon as I am giving serious thought to buying one despite what my wife will tell me.

I didn't think to check the WiFi on the device. :oops:

[MG]

Blazingwolf, I'm surprised (and glad) to hear you think the phone is solid. For reference, I think the Sprint version feels like it came from a vending machine. (slide was inaccurate, felt too light to be durabe) I hope you are right about possible release, but with a coming soon banner for the RAZR 3c, I'd be surprised it the XV6700 was "next".

Mark

[Janak Parekh]

They have now implemented changes to the network, phones and billing system so they can monitor usage, and when the new BB comes out it will be the first pda to be offered with a "tethered plan option", my understanding is it will cost extra, but most people that want to tether and geet EVDO will pay.
Three words: about freakin' time. ;) I'll have to watch this closely -- the BB isn't interesting to me, but some of the devices coming out next might be. Do you know if this will be offered on all upcoming EVDO-capable devices?

I personally don't care that the wifi is "crippled" it's nice to have, but I don't by a phone edition device to worry about wifi. Most applications can be done well over 1xrtt, and EVDO.
Good point. But this also makes me more mystified. Why is Verizon obsessed with "crippling" WiFi (since, in my opinion, this is what it is) if EVDO works so well (and all reports suggest it does)?

Then again when shopping for a house a requirement for me was strong Verizon Coverage...I haven't used my home access point in about a year.
Interesting. I still use an AP for my laptop connected through my cable modem, especially because others also share the connection. ;)

Thanks much for the updates -- they're appreciated.

--janak

[Janak Parekh]

I don't understand what you mean when you say "it works anyway". From your post, it seems they tried but couldn't set you up with the "proper data plan". If that is so, how did you get unlimited data for $15? And how is that the most they could charge you?
Basically, if the toggle for any form of 1x data is turned on on your phone, it will work. People have reported success using an EVDO tethered setup with just the VCAST plan. However, the latest reports on HowardForums and others is that Verizon is cracking down on this behavior -- if you use EVDO too much while tethered under a plan that doesn't support it, they will start sending nasty letters to you.

--janak

[Janak Parekh]

I spoke to a Verizon rep today and I got to play around with this phone for about 15 minutes. It is a very nice device. Small in the hand but it has a very nice screen (I have an Axim X50v now but it looked good even compared to this). Keyboard slides out very nicely. Screen rotation only takes a second or 2. The keboard was easy to type on (I tried it in a word file).
Thanks for the feedback! The screen looks nice in particular because it's a 2.8" screen, so even though it's lower res it still has a decent DPI.

I was told by the rep that this phone will be able to tether similar to the new BlackBerry. Tethering should add another $15 dollars to the data plan.
... which matches with what wirelessbeachbum said about the $59.99 price point.

--janak

[blazingwolf]

Blazingwolf, I'm surprised (and glad) to hear you think the phone is solid. For reference, I think the Sprint version feels like it came from a vending machine. (slide was inaccurate, felt too light to be durabe) I hope you are right about possible release, but with a coming soon banner for the RAZR 3c, I'd be surprised it the XV6700 was "next".

Mark

I opened and closed it several times and it felt fine. Never felt like a cheap toy to me.

I'm not sure if it will be next but I go thte distinct impression that it will be out before the Treo 700 which is suppossed to be out first quarter.

Janak,

yes the screen is 2.8 but I think it works really good on this phone(not that you said it was bad). I once said that I would never go back to a QVGA device but I think I will be going against that promise when this device comes out. If I could have gotten away with it I would have taken the display device. :devilboy:

[Janak Parekh]

yes the screen is 2.8 but I think it works really good on this phone(not that you said it was bad). I once said that I would never go back to a QVGA device but I think I will be going against that promise when this device comes out.
Absolutely -- it all boils down to DPI. Subject to vision, 2.8" QVGA will generally look quite a bit better than 3.5" QVGA because of the higher pixel density. Ultimately, you need to look at your priorities: what's more important, size, connectivity, screen resolution, etc.? Believe it or not, screen resolution isn't the primary concern for a substantial number of people.

--janak

[mkanet]

I'm really itching to buy this from Verizon. Anyone have a rough guess when these will be available or an official release date? Where would I see it for sale first? Best buy?

[Janak Parekh]

I'm really itching to buy this from Verizon. Anyone have a rough guess when these will be available or an official release date? Where would I see it for sale first? Best buy?
I last heard January/February as a timeframe, but nothing official recently. You may want to poke around the boards on HowardForums.com and pdaPhoneHome.com in addition to here to see if people have more data.

--janak

[ckeegan]

I'm also extremely excited about this device on Verizon, and quite honestly I don't think anyone knows for sure when we'll see it. Right now it's only rumor, and probably will be until the day it actually comes out.

Here's some food for thought though:

1. VZW Employee over at HoFo has a "reliable source" who said he thought it would go b2b on 12/21 and full release on 12/28. Again, just rumor. We've heard 11/7, 11/21, 11/28, and 12/1 from many sources and those dates have come and gone.

2. Typically Verizon uploads images to their server no more than 4ish weeks from release date, and this was uploaded on 12/6 at 8:30am:
http://cache.vzw.com/images_b2c/phones/lg/vzw_xv6700.jpg

3. We've also heard rumor of March in order to give the 700w exclusivity as the only WM 5.0 device available through Verizon.

Bottom line is that I don't know what to think anymore. Money's ready when it happens though.

[ckeegan]

You can't get more reliable info than you do from this guy:

http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=804274

[Janak Parekh]

You can't get more reliable info than you do from this guy:
Yeah, that looks pretty official. We'll post as soon as it comes out. (And the black looks very nice. :))

--janak

[ckeegan]

I ordered mine today and will have it tomorrow via overnight for an extra $12.99.

I also thought I would share the following press release from UTStarcom and Verizon:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060104/sfw119.html?.v=8

[Janak Parekh]

Thanks for the link! I'll post it up.

--janak