The "M" In DRM Clearly Stands For Madness

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=2083&amp;tag=nl.e540">http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=2083&amp;tag=nl.e540</a><br /><br />"<i>Sooner or later, it was bound to happen — a Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) management technology that, by design, often keeps you from consuming that content on devices that use other DRM technologies actually ends up keeping you from consuming content that's protected by it as well. Talk about a trainwreck. Actually, in this case, we have two trainwrecks in one — trainwrecks that perfectly demonstrate how proprietary DRM technologies are going to turn the frictionless utopia we should be after into a friction-laden migraine headache."</i><br /><br />Microsoft released an update for their Media Center platform that can wreak havoc with your content if you do something stupid, like change the processor, hard drive or something insanely foolhardy like alter a BIOS setting. 8O Microsoft has r<a href="http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=891664">released a simple 5 step process to fix this issue</a>. Well, they used 5 numbers in counting the steps. It looks more like 20+ steps when you include the notes and the fact that step 4 (or step eleventeen, depending on how you count) takes you to a friendly "Upgrading your Windows Media DRM Component" wizard that will no doubt take you through the "Windows Genuine Advantage" screens too. So, call it 50 steps. Can you imagine going through this hassle? The more DRM I see, the better my DRM hacking kung fu is getting. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/ninja.gif" />

[Clinton Fitch]

The more DRM I see, the better my DRM hacking kung fu is getting. http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/ninja.gif

Go Hackersan!

That poll question! :lol: Genius.....

Ed, uh, your holding back buddy. Tell us how you really feel about DRM.

8O

[Jon Westfall]

I think your poll is lacking objectivity. I'm sure there are lots of positive things about DRM... I just can't think of any. :roll:

[alon.albert]

I think the poll is misleading. Anyone who simply answered "I hate it" probably never bothered to read the second option. :wink:

[Clinton Fitch]

I think the poll is misleading. Anyone who simply answered "I hate it" probably never bothered to read the second option. :wink:

ROFL!

Laziness... man, it is just a killer....

[Jon Westfall]

I think the poll is misleading. Anyone who simply answered "I hate it" probably never bothered to read the second option. :wink:

Weren't you ever taught in school to read all the answer choices before choosing? :) Anyway, Welcome to Pocket PC Thoughts, as it appears this is your first post!

[alon.albert]

Welcome to Pocket PC Thoughts, as it appears this is your first post!
Thanks, I've been here a while, I just couldn't resist posting this time.

[Ed Hansberry]

I think your poll is lacking objectivity. I'm sure there are lots of positive things about DRM... I just can't think of any. :roll:

I am positive I hate it. How's that?

[Clinton Fitch]

I am positive I hate it. How's that?

Now THAT's exactly the answer I was looking for! No holding back... no, wishy-washiness...

:D

[szamot]

This poll should have one more answer to select from.


3. I go out of my way to avoid DMR like the Plague that it is.

I would not say that I hate DMR. That is too strong of a word, to hate something is to show emotion, I simply remain apathetic to it.

[Jon Westfall]

I would not say that I hate DMR. That is too strong of a word, to hate something is to show emotion, I simply remain apathetic to it.

I don't know, in this case a little emotion might be a good thing - maybe enough emotional people protesting this junk will hit the DRM-loving individuals where it hurts - their wallets.

[PetiteFlower]

I bought a new CD recently, for the first time in a while. It came with this repulsive "FBI Anti-Piracy warning" not only on the cover, but actually stamped onto the CD ITSELF! If that doesn't make me want to rip that sucker immediately and post it on every web site and file sharing service I can get my cyber-hands on, I don't know what would. I haven't done it yet, but that's more out of laziness then anything else.

This is only marginally related to DRM, but close enough.

[arb]

There is a benefit to DRM. It gives consumers the fuel to file class action lawsuits against the companies that provides means to malicous conduct.

Sony does deserve to get one of these CALs.

[Darius Wey]

I'm waiting for new DRM technology which forces you to sacrifice 10% of your soul before playing the CD.

Yeah, who knows? I'm not that far off the truth. ;)

[Gerard]

I wonder what might happen if during this 5-to-50-step process of repairing one's DRM on the media PC they got bored, and tossed a Sony-BMG rootkit-enhanced CD into the tray for some tunes? Would sharp bolts and springs shoot out and puncture the user's eyes? A little smoke billowing out the top of the box perhaps?

DRM scams... er, schemes, are going to lead to violent crimes, probably more so than violent video games. You just watch. Sue enough grandparents and kids for infractions (imagined or not) and someone's going to start popping lawyers. Maybe with a hacked version of the potato bazooka, one that uses DRM'd CDs as the fast-spinning projectiles.

[beq]

Not directly related either, but my MS Reader activation account has been rendered useless since ages ago. I went through too many devices (PPCs), and it wouldn't let me register any new devices with the same account. There was no way to delete older device activations that I no longer use, except manually contacting Microsoft which got me absolutely nowhere.

I've since decided to switch format, but it's a shame about the hundreds of $$$ I'd already spent on MS Reader format titles from Fictionwise et. al...

[unxmully]

Not directly related either, but my MS Reader activation account has been rendered useless since ages ago. I went through too many devices (PPCs), and it wouldn't let me register any new devices with the same account. There was no way to delete older device activations that I no longer use, except manually contacting Microsoft which got me absolutely nowhere.

I lucked out and never bothered with the MS Reader. I found it's large font presentation in the early incarnations horrible. Tried some free content and gave up.

I've since decided to switch format, but it's a shame about the hundreds of $$$ I'd already spent on MS Reader format titles from Fictionwise et. al...

Peanutpress, now eReader, has a far more acceptible DRM form - and I can give copies of books to anyone with whom I'm willing to share my credit card details, err like no one.

My only concern with them is that they're not shipping reader upgrades as frequently as they used to and dont' support some platforms I would like to use. This, IMHO, is the other area where DRM falls down - support for new devices and possibly orphaning content if the vendor goes out of business.

[pivaska]

I would be interested in how others AVOID DRM. I personally use Hali Reader with straight text because I am an "old" book person and get most of my stuff from Gutenburg press. But eventually I would like to venture into the more modern book so what is it that you guys use to AVOID DRM in all areas of media?

[Craig Horlacher]

Sure we all hate DRM...but give some reasons why!

I just got a new mp3 player for my dad for his birthday. It had some logo on the box that said "usb mass storage" or something like that so I thought that meant that it would show up like any usb flash drive, with no drivers needed. Man, I was sure wrong. See, it's also "plays for sure" which means you need to install some drivers (maybe not if you have WinMedia10 installed) but basically, once I got the thing up and working it turns out I can only put music onto the stupid thing using WM10 or some other blessed app! GIVE ME UNRESTRICTED ACCESS TO THE HARDWARE I GIVE YOU MONEY FOR YOU MORONS!!! Sure, I can open it from "my computer" but it doesn't have a drive letter and I can only copy data to a data directory - which the player won't read music from. Yeah, I can copy photos to the photo directory for viewing - at least I don't need to use Windows Paint to do that!!!

So, I'm never buying a "Plays For Sure" device for my use. It will be fine for my Dad but if it was for me, I would have been mad. Manufacturers should make firmware available that doesn't support wma drm but gives you full drive access for people WHO DON'T LIKE GETTING LESS THEN WHAT THEY PAID FOR!!!

Basically, DRM causes problems for legitimate users like me who BUY EVERYTHING. I usually don't buy from online stores because if I do I need to burn it to a cd and rip it off so I can get it in a format that I can listen to on any device I choose, whether it's my laptop, psp, pocket pc, or iriver H140. DRM is completly impractical for this. Is that illigle? Frankly, I don't care if it is! It's never being played more than once at any given time even if it's on all four of those devices. Last I checked, it's ok to buy a cd, play it in your home entertainment system, play it in your car, play it in a wallkman at work, or where ever.

AHHHHHH, it drives me nuts!!! I better stop now.

Have a great day!

[Craig Horlacher]

There is a benefit to DRM. It gives consumers the fuel to file class action lawsuits against the companies that provides means to malicous conduct.

Sony does deserve to get one of these CALs.

Sony does some stupid things (387 flash memory formats, mp3 players that don't play mp3's, etc) but I'd argue that apple is worse. People don't know what good mp3 players are since apple flooded the market with a stupid device that doesn't even do recording or have an fm tuner. As if that wasn't enough they put out a flash player without a screen..."play a game of musical chance"...Hmmmm, lets see, cd players have had "shuffle" for about 15 years (or whatever) and every mp3 player on earth has "shuffle" too. Wow Apple, you've got some mad innovation going on there!!! Just when I thought hp beat you with a pocket pc that had a touchpad you totally redeemed yourself!

We should sue Apple for setting societies technological standards so low.

[dstrauss]

I am SO disappointed in you people! :cry:

Why is it only 80/20 for hate with a passion. :soapbox:

How could anyone not say ^%^$#&amp;# *&amp;^)*%&amp;@( _(( every time they try to play a DRM'd (rhymes with - well, let's not go there, this is a family channel) content in the "wrong (Read unapproved or "they just won't pay us enough royalties) device?"

[arb]

vector, you said that you didn't like the "Plays for sure" products released by current MP3 makers. There is another option for you. SanDisk makes a MP3 companion for its USB Micro line USB Sticks. I have one I got for early promotion, and it does everything cheaper MP3 players do without PFS locked into it.

As far as the Apple comment, it isn't that Apple dumbed up the market, it made it easier for people who know little about computers to take advantage of newer technology. Would you have said the same thing if Microsoft made an interface like that first for PPC before apple designed thier iPod? Or if MS made manufactures design by default in all their PDAs a scroll wheel design before Apple made theirs? Personally, Apple makes one of the most relaxed versions of DRM on the planet right now. Of course no DRM would be nice, but then they are giving customers the option to burn DRM music straight to CD. And all this talk in the industry that the sampling rate for MP3 or AAC or WMA is low quality, it doesn't matter. I DO NOT hear a difference when I play an MP3 either from my iPod or Sandisk Cruzer....... What are you guys listening for, a random pin drop in the background??????

Again not all DRM are bad, just the ones that do ireversible damage to your computer. Sony's DRM is an example of bad DRM.

Of course another take at this the industry could learn from this and think, people would like to have their content now and in the way consumers want it. I see a movie on the big screen, I should be about to pay for that same movie to watch at home while it is still in the theater. With all this bird flu crap going around, My home theater at home would be resonable to get the same experiance and the actors would still get paid.


---

[Craig Horlacher]

arb...

Thanks for the info on the sandisk player.

You're right, in all fairness I should have pointed out that Apple did do a great thing in creating a market for such devices that really didn't exist before.

I guess I hate drm so much I never really looked at different levels, like bad and worse, for drm. I love my psp enough that I suck up buying msduopro and it plays mp3's without any altering so I'm happy with sony...as I know many people are very happy with their ipod's.

[bjornkeizers]

I hate DRM with a passion as well. It turned me from a (relatively) honest customer into a full blown pirate.

These days, I have better luck pirating some games then buying legitimate copies because of DRM. I've had games that simply wouldn't install on machines because of copy-protection issues. Take Half-Life 2 for example. I own a legitimate copy, but because it needs to 'phone home' to play Counterstrike, I wasn't able to play the game on holiday because I didn't have internet connection!!

I've also bought and recieved CD's that couldn't be played on certain stereos, car radios, PC's - let alone ripped for personal use. And as for books? I get all my books from certain IRC channels, in simple text or RTF format, so I can read them when I want, where I want, on any device I own without worrying about being locked out.

Sad but true. More and more people realize this every day. I stay well away from anything DRM, and I make sure to tell anyone about it if they're looking for a new device/service/software/game. I vote with my wallet, and I make sure to punish companys who use DRM and reward those that don't.

[Mark Johnson]

It's kind of ironic that as much as I hate Microsoft's Janus DRM subscription approach, it does provide a solution to the EVEN WORSE iTunes-types. At least Napster's "own nothing, have everything" marketing is far more honest than iTunes. Ive had two familly members buy iPods in the last 3 months and had to make them understand that $0.99 only sounds cheap, but since you are "locked in" to the Apple platform FOREVER, you are actully getting ripped off badly. Steve Jobs did a masterful job of making the price per song HIGH enough to give the ILLUSION of ownership. I can't wait until we start hearing the real backlash towards the iTunes economy when tons of people who have traded in their third PC or Mac start getting the "you can't activate another system" notices as well.

I'm disgusted at how often I need to reinstall Windows XP because of it's poor stability and how insanely hard it is to actually repair a corrupted installation "in-place." I'd get over that, but ever since this summer and the Genuine Check fiasco, I'm now finding that the same exact system won't activate over the internet anymore, you always have to call in and play "mommy may I activate?" and that makes me really look forward to some day when I can do everything I want with linux and just dump XP entirely. All that to say, how are people going to like having their music just "lock down" on them because they've reinstalled just one too many times?

At least with my Yahoo Unlimited Music account, I know I don't own any of it, and I don't care as long as it's cheap. Of course it's pretty stupid that Yahoo just kowtowed to Hollywood and boosted the price. People will rent, but they're going to be real price sensitive.

[lapchinj]

Yeah, at the beginning of the year I broke down and bought a couple of songs from iTunes. I thought that so many people are doing it that I must be stupid for not trying it out. 99 cents seemed like a nice price. Make a long story short I downloaded some songs and soon found out that I couldn't move them over to my mp3 player. As a matter of fact I couldn't really play them on anything else I had other than Windows media player. What a joke :evil:

I'm not going to go out and pirate any songs or software or anything but I will protect my investment by getting software that can rip the DRM off my purchases. What I have been doing if I really needed/wanted a game is I'll first go out and find a non-DRM version. If it exists and runs on my machine I'll go buy the real thing while using the nonDRM version. I would love to send a protest letter to all the companies I buy stuff from with DRM that I removed telling them what a farce and hassle DRM is. But I would probably just open a can of worms for myself so I'll just keep my mouth shut.

Jeff-

[Darius Wey]

Yeah, at the beginning of the year I broke down and bought a couple of songs from iTunes. I thought that so many people are doing it that I must be stupid for not trying it out. 99 cents seemed like a nice price. Make a long story short I downloaded some songs and soon found out that I couldn't move them over to my mp3 player. As a matter of fact I couldn't really play them on anything else I had other than Windows media player. What a joke :evil:

There are ways around it. Some people have suggested using an application to hack the DRM-crippled AACs. You could also burn your iTunes AACs to an audio CD and re-rip it (if you don't mind a 128kbps AAC > MP3 rip). However, such methods are subject to a whole truckload of legal and ethical questions. At the end of the day, DRM is a PITA. We can run from it, but we can't hide from it.

I'd much rather buy the audio CD than deal with digital downloads, but when you have labels such as Sony BMG doing nasty things to the CDs, consumers will eventually choose not to purchase the music, and that hits hard on the artists themselves. Labels should be treating consumers as consumers, not thieves.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Sony does some stupid things (387 flash memory formats, mp3 players that don't play mp3's, etc) but I'd argue that apple is worse. People don't know what good mp3 players are since apple flooded the market with a stupid device that doesn't even do recording or have an fm tuner. As if that wasn't enough they put out a flash player without a screen..."play a game of musical chance"...Hmmmm, lets see, cd players have had "shuffle" for about 15 years (or whatever) and every mp3 player on earth has "shuffle" too. Wow Apple, you've got some mad innovation going on there!!! Just when I thought hp beat you with a pocket pc that had a touchpad you totally redeemed yourself!

We should sue Apple for setting societies technological standards so low.

Apple has one of the most liberal DRM policies out there. What does your Apple-bashing have to do with DRM?

*** Excessive quoting moderated by DW. ***

[Craig Horlacher]

Apple has one of the most liberal DRM policies out there. What does your Apple-bashing have to do with DRM?

I feel that it's very unfortunate that the worlds most common digital music players are built to work best with itunes and drm downloads (though their drm may be more liberal than most). In my experience, drm - no matter how liberal - is really, really bad. It looks like there are a few others in the thread who agree that even the apple drm is not a good thing.

I'm just stating my opionoins. I'm not saying my stuff is the best, my toshiba pocket pc won't work with any bluetooth keyboards and I really hate that - and toshiba doesn't care at all.

Again, I do feel we owe apple some thanks for making the mp3 market what it is. It wouldn't have made it this far this fast without apples brilliant marketing.

*** Excessive quoting moderated by DW. ***