A New i-Mate K-JAM Blog

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.beyondthetech.com/blogs/kjam/' target='_blank'>http://www.beyondthetech.com/blogs/kjam/</a><br /><br /></div><i>"As quite an active member of HowardForums, I was given some expectation by my fellow members to write a comprehensive review of this new mobile device that literally exploded onto the scene within the last 24 hours (while building a lot of momentum and anticipation nearly a month and a half before that!). Since the idea of the "official review" has been done to death, I decided that it would be in my best interest (hopefully as well as everyone else) that I create a blog of my day-to-day experience with the device, posting anything relevant that comes my way."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/parekh-20051011-RaphaelSelgado.jpg" /><br /><br />PPCT (and HowardForums) member Raphael143 has started up a new blog about his new baby, the i-Mate K-JAM (otherwise known as the HTC Wizard). If you're a new owner of one, or want day-to-day feedback on the device, you might want to stop by and take a look.

[Paragon]

Way to go BTT. Keep up the good work.

Dave

[JPD6825]

What a relief! We won't be renaming this site X50v Thoughts after all. "Wizard Thoughts" ! How does that sound?

[Raphael Salgado]

Wow, I've been headlined at Pocket PC Thoughts.

Did I mention I'm accepting donations for my blog? :lol:

[Janak Parekh]

What a relief! We won't be renaming this site X50v Thoughts after all. "Wizard Thoughts" ! How does that sound?
Just in case that's sarcasm and not humor, we do focus on the "hot" devices that are out at any given time. This practice has dated back to Pocket PC 2000 devices.

--janak

[dommasters]

The processor in the HTC Wizard sucks so let's see some benchmarks if it's as "fast" as people say it is.

[jngold_me]

The processor in the HTC Wizard sucks so let's see some benchmarks if it's as "fast" as people say it is.

What basis do you make the above statement? At the last Palm Analyst conference, TI put the OMAP head to head with an equivalent x-scale. From what I read the OMAP, "cleaned Intel's clock".

Plus, the OMAP's savings on battery life make it the right choice for a phone-based device.

http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2002Nov/bch20021101017093.htm

[dommasters]

The processor in the HTC Wizard sucks so let's see some benchmarks if it's as "fast" as people say it is.

What basis do you make the above statement? At the last Palm Analyst conference, TI put the OMAP head to head with an equivalent x-scale. From what I read the OMAP, "cleaned Intel's clock".

Plus, the OMAP's savings on battery life make it the right choice for a phone-based device.

http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2002Nov/bch20021101017093.htm
What do you class as an equivalent x-scale ?

[DaleReeck]

All the OMAP's I've seen are lower speed, e.g. 200MHZ in the iPaq 6300 I had a while back. I've never seen a "fast" OMAP. I doubt a 200MHZ OMAP is going to beat a 500 or 600MHZ x-scale. OMAP may be better in power, but mainly because of it's low clock speed. When TI produces a 600MHZ OMAP processor that's low on power, then I'll be impressed :)

[whydidnt]

All the OMAP's I've seen are lower speed, e.g. 200MHZ in the iPaq 6300 I had a while back. I've never seen a "fast" OMAP. I doubt a 200MHZ OMAP is going to beat a 500 or 600MHZ x-scale. OMAP may be better in power, but mainly because of it's low clock speed. When TI produces a 600MHZ OMAP processor that's low on power, then I'll be impressed :)

Dale, I think you hit the nail on the head. Once a few more of these get into the hands of some users we'll know for sure. However, based upon my experience with the OMAP proccesor in the iPaq 6315, I would say it's dog slow compared to the latest xscale proccesors.

Doesn't mean it won't be acceptable for many people's needs, but it may be an issue for people who have a need for speed.

[PdaAddict]

All of the recently released/announced devices are a huge dissapointment in my humble opinion: Treo-700w should be renamed into Treo-630 as it is a step backwards, HTC Apache is bulky, has an ugly antenna and most likely typical dim screen, HTC Wizard looks nicer but what's with OMAP processor, HTC Universal is too bulky to be used as a phone plus it looks like it has a lot to be desired in terms of performance. I woud like to see a phone with the Treo 650 design (minus antenna) with 520 Xscale CPU, 128 ROM, 64 RAM, BT, Wifi and SDIO.

[whydidnt]

I woud like to see a phone with the Treo 650 design (minus antenna) with 520 Xscale CPU, 128 ROM, 64 RAM, BT, Wifi and SDIO.

Have you considered the Samsung i730? It would appear to meet almost all of your criteria, with the exception of the antenna. Of course the keyboard is a slider,not integrated into the front of the unit, but that allows for a more useable screen, IMO. It's only running WM2k3SE right now, but an upgrade next year appears to be in the works. (Not to mention, I am kind of liking the old OS better than the new right now).

[Paragon]

Dale, I think you hit the nail on the head. Once a few more of these get into the hands of some users we'll know for sure. However, based upon my experience with the OMAP proccesor in the iPaq 6315, I would say it's dog slow compared to the latest xscale proccesors.



In the hands of this user, and many, many others, it's not dog slow. ;) It is very usable. Does it have the capabilities of an Axim x50v? No. It does however run full screen video at 300kbps and faster without a problem. It does multi task without a problem. It streams over wifi without a problem. It has some issues with skype, but lots of devices do, so I'm not sure where to hang the responsibility on that issue.

You guys really have to get away from judging a processor by its mhz, or comparing the OMAP 850 processor with the Ipaq 6315 which was a different processor, and by most accounts its problems were more to do with lousy ROMs.
Check the Howard Forums, if you want to see volumes of real life experiences from users of the Wizard. You'll find almost none having speed issues with it. :)

Dave

[PdaAddict]

Samsung I-730 is definitely a step in the right direction, but there are two things that I did no like: 1. Its CDMA and while EVDO is fast it's too expensive for most of us; and 2. The screen is not bright enough. It is very hard to look at any screen after Treo-650, which I currently own. I owned Imate Jam and Siemens SX66 before that and I absolutely love my Treo-650. I wonder if someone can cook up a ROM from Treo-700W to make it work on Treo-650.

[whydidnt]

Samsung I-730 is definitely a step in the right direction, but there are two things that I did no like: 1. Its CDMA and while EVDO is fast it's too expensive for most of us; and 2. The screen is not bright enough. It is very hard to look at any screen after Treo-650, which I currently own. I owned Imate Jam and Siemens SX66 before that and I absolutely love my Treo-650. I wonder if someone can cook up a ROM from Treo-700W to make it work on Treo-650.

I understand about the CDMA thing, but I don't agree regarding the brightness. When I have the i730 at the highest setting "Super Bright" it actually hurts my eyes to look at it. I usually run it at the lowest setting "low bright" and it works for my needs (and saves battery life).

Their data rates, when combined with a voice plan, really aren't much worse than Cingulars. I think I was paying 24.95/month for Cingular's unlimited plan and ended up paying $10.00/more with Verizon for their unlimited data plan. They give a discount on a combined minutes - data plan. EVDO rocks compared to EDGE - I can actually steam Tivo via my SlingBox to my PC using the i730 as a modem. :D

Off course, paying $10/extra a month for higher speed data may not be worth it to a lot of people who just use their device for light browsing and email, but for me, it's worth it.

[whydidnt]

In the hands of this user, and many, many others, it's not dog slow. ;) It is very usable. Does it have the capabilities of an Axim x50v? No. It does however run full screen video at 300kbps and faster without a problem. It does multi task without a problem. It streams over wifi without a problem. It has some issues with skype, but lots of devices do, so I'm not sure where to hang the responsibility on that issue.

You guys really have to get away from judging a processor by its mhz, or comparing the OMAP 850 processor with the Ipaq 6315 which was a different processor, and by most accounts its problems were more to do with lousy ROMs.

Dave

I think you took my quote out of context. As I said, it remains to be seen whether the new device has the same speed issues as the OMAP based iPaq did. I still have that pile of junk sitting on my desk and even with the latest ROM upgrade it's slow and drops frames while trying to watch videos, etc.

In this case I prefer to wait until a larger audience of people use the device and comment on it's speed before passing judgement. All we have to go on to this point is the previous OMAP processor -- SLOW and the comments of a few early adopters, who all for the most part still are in the just happy to get the device stage.

I hope that the lower clocked, battery friendly processor does perform well and the K-Jam proves it can.

Maybe I'm just a little gun shy after my recent experiences with the Universal - that even with it's 520 Mhz processor is significantly slower in every task I've tried and YES it drops frames in the hi-res videos I try to watch too. But I'm going to reserve judgement until a larger audience has responded about the device and it's speed.

[Janak Parekh]

Maybe I'm just a little gun shy after my recent experiences with the Universal - that even with it's 520 Mhz processor is significantly slower in every task I've tried and YES it drops frames in the hi-res videos I try to watch too.
Remember, though, that the Universal has 4 times as many pixels, so that poses a number of problems in its own right. :) I'm sure we'll get a better idea as the Wizard becomes more available around the world.

--janak

[Paragon]

I think you took my quote out of context. As I said, it remains to be seen whether the new device has the same speed issues as the OMAP based iPaq did. I still have that pile of junk sitting on my desk and even with the latest ROM upgrade it's slow and drops frames while trying to watch videos, etc.

In this case I prefer to wait until a larger audience of people use the device and comment on it's speed before passing judgement. All we have to go on to this point is the previous OMAP processor -- SLOW and the comments of a few early adopters, who all for the most part still are in the just happy to get the device stage.

I hope that the lower clocked, battery friendly processor does perform well and the K-Jam proves it can.

Maybe I'm just a little gun shy after my recent experiences with the Universal - that even with it's 520 Mhz processor is significantly slower in every task I've tried and YES it drops frames in the hi-res videos I try to watch too. But I'm going to reserve judgement until a larger audience has responded about the device and it's speed.

Well, I don't kow but "dog slow" is kinda hard to mistake in its context. :)

Anyway, Your reasons are all well and good. Nothing wrong in wanting to hear as many hands on opinions as possible.

You mention that even the Universal seems slow. I do agree that there is some sluggishness in both devices. I've used both. WM5.0 does cause some slowness because of its use of persistent storage. As some very loudly complained leading up to its release the WM5.0 itself would be a dog because of ROM being used for all storage. There are some slowdowns in accessing data. Nothing I don't think that any of us have found to be too surprising, or enough to turn us off the product. :)

Dave

[whydidnt]

Well, I don't kow but "dog slow" is kinda hard to mistake in its context. :)


Well, there you go... I was speaking about the processor in the iPaq and you replied as though I was speaking about the K-Jam. Seems out of context to me. :)

I think you'll be hard pressed to find many people who will argue the dog-slow quote on the iPaq, and to this point in the PPC world that has been our only OMAP experience. :D

[whydidnt]

You mention that even the Universal seems slow. I do agree that there is some sluggishness in both devices. I've used both. WM5.0 does cause some slowness because of its use of persistent storage. As some very loudly complained leading up to its release the WM5.0 itself would be a dog because of ROM being used for all storage. There are some slowdowns in accessing data. Nothing I don't think that any of us have found to be too surprising, or enough to turn us off the product. :)
Dave

It's actually been a little surprising to me. I expected longer load times of applications, but did not expect to see PocketInformant take 5 seconds to locate a contact after typing a couple of letters. I've got about 600 contacts and sitting, watching their little circle spin is annoying. I also didn't expect to see videos that ran great on the HX4700 run lousy on the JasJar, both videos are playing off an SD card. Admittedly, I haven't used a QVGA WM5 device, and the performance will probably be better on those, but I have a sneaking suspicion that WM5 is not as snappy as previous editions, regardless of the ROM/RAM discussion. It's using way more resources right off the bat, which should be a clue, I think.

Right now, I'm not sure the performance hit is worth it, when you consider we hope that new versions of software and hardware improve our final experience, not make it more frustrating.

I'm awfully close to ebaying the JasJar, I just don't find myself using it as much as I typically use a PPC, simply because everything - save typing on the keyboard - takes longer, not to mention incompatibility with a couple of games I really like to play.

[Paragon]

It's actually been a little surprising to me. I expected longer load times of applications, but did not expect to see PocketInformant take 5 seconds to locate a contact after typing a couple of letters. I've got about 600 contacts and sitting, watching their little circle spin is annoying. I also didn't expect to see videos that ran great on the HX4700 run lousy on the JasJar, both videos are playing off an SD card. Admittedly, I haven't used a QVGA WM5 device, and the performance will probably be better on those, but I have a sneaking suspicion that WM5 is not as snappy as previous editions, regardless of the ROM/RAM discussion. It's using way more resources right off the bat, which should be a clue, I think.

Right now, I'm not sure the performance hit is worth it, when you consider we hope that new versions of software and hardware improve our final experience, not make it more frustrating.

I wonder if the slowness you are seeing with contacts isn't an issue with Pocket Informant. I have around 400 contacts on my K-JAM and as I type letters in the reaction is instant. I have heard of other issues with PI and WM5.0.

As for video, I have noticed on the K-JAM that a video playing at approx. 300kbps in Windows Media Player will occasionally stutter like you have seen, yet I can play a video using Pocket TV at over 500kbps with out a problem. The same WMV video played on my X50v without a problem. Have you tried any other player besides WMP?

Dave

[Jason Lee]

also have you hacked the antivirus out of the extended rom and hard reset? I've heard that greatly helps the jasjar.

[whydidnt]

I wonder if the slowness you are seeing with contacts isn't an issue with Pocket Informant. I have around 400 contacts on my K-JAM and as I type letters in the reaction is instant. I have heard of other issues with PI and WM5.0.

As for video, I have noticed on the K-JAM that a video playing at approx. 300kbps in Windows Media Player will occasionally stutter like you have seen, yet I can play a video using Pocket TV at over 500kbps with out a problem. The same WMV video played on my X50v without a problem. Have you tried any other player besides WMP?
Dave

Thanks for the thoughts, it could be an issue with PI &amp; WM5, though it is their latest build and WM5 friendly (even uses the soft keys!). i am using TCMP (old BetaPlayer) for videos, most of what I've heard is that it is the most efficient player available for these portable devices. These are 640 x 480 Divx files I'm trying. The 320 x 240 videos I have don't look so good stretched to the 640 x 480 screen.

[Paragon]

also have you hacked the antivirus out of the extended rom and hard reset? I've heard that greatly helps the jasjar.

My K-JAM wasn't out of the box five minutes and that pile of crud was exercised from my machine. :)

Dave

[whydidnt]

also have you hacked the antivirus out of the extended rom and hard reset? I've heard that greatly helps the jasjar.

The first thing I did was unistall AV, Skype and Backgammon that i-mate feels the need to load on a hard reset. I would imagine with that running all the time, it would hurt even more.

Seems odd that there aren't any WM viruses in the wild, yet a manufacturer feels the need to bundle AV software with their device. I think its a solution looking for a problem. :roll:

If you check the threads over at XDA-developers.com you'll see many others who have the same concerns with this device. I just worry it's as much software as hardware that is causing the problem, since the hardware specs have been done before without issue.

[Paragon]

If you check the threads over at XDA-developers.com you'll see many others who have the same concerns with this device. I just worry it's as much software as hardware that is causing the problem, since the hardware specs have been done before without issue.

Or, is it a case of hardware not quite ready for the OS yet? Meaning ROM can be accessed much faster now, but it still isn't quite fast enough?!

Where's Menneisyys when you need him? He should have a five page tutorial on this by morning. :D

Dave

[Jason Lee]

lol

[Raphael Salgado]

Hey, we're getting off topic here! It supposed to be about me... all me!

Just kidding. Wow, this thread is moving, and so is my blog. I never thought I'd see nearly 2000 hits in one day. Brings a tear to my eye. ;)