Official HTC Universal Thread [Archive]

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Phoenix

09-13-2005, 12:10 AM

Has anyone got their hands on an HTC Universal (or whatever name it happens to go by) yet?

I started this "official" thread so there would be a central place in the PPC PE forum for everyone with this phone to go to and post their feedback, without creating half a dozen new topics on the same thing.

I'd love to see some photos and read some detailed feedback by members here who have the Universal.

galt

09-13-2005, 12:40 AM

Phoenix

09-13-2005, 12:55 AM

I will have my Jas Jar tomorrow :D but it'll be a while before I can get home from work and plug it in and then report back. To be honest, Howard Forums has accumulated a pretty large PPC community, their/our Official HTC Universal thread is here (http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=722975) and has been getting posts for a couple of days now.

That's great! I know we'll all look forward to hearing your experiences.

I'm aware of HowardForums and a member there, but I started this thread to serve as a resource for the members here at PPCT and those here who happen to own the Universal, not just as a link to HowardForums. HF can do their own thing. :wink:

galt

09-13-2005, 02:32 AM

Cool, I was just providing the HoFo link as "it's already happening" kinda linky.

Darius Wey

09-13-2005, 04:34 AM

galt

09-13-2005, 04:55 AM

I will have my Jas Jar tomorrow :D but it'll be a while before I can get home from work and plug it in and then report back. To be honest, Howard Forums has accumulated a pretty large PPC community, their/our Official HTC Universal thread is here (http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=722975) and has been getting posts for a couple of days now.

Nice purchase. Seems like you're going back to the Sidekick form factor, but it's everything the Sidekick is, and more. 8)

Look forward to hearing your thoughts on the device.Very much so. Not having an integrated keyboard on my Axim X30 has been very painful. I'm actually thinking about doing a full up review on the Universal from a Sidekicker's perspective, comparing and contrasing the user experience. It would kinda be like comparing apples to... well, a BMW, but it might open some Sidekicker's minds up to the world of Windows Mobile.

tekhound

09-13-2005, 03:17 PM

I just got mine in about 5 minutes ago!

I will fire it up and get it running and will post later.

One thing I noticed immediately is that imate must have heard all of the complaints of how stupid the name "JASJAR" is. The first thing I noticed is that the only writing on the top cover is "imate". JASJAR is only in smaller letters on the inside.

Keyboard is really nice. Swivel is smooth. Pen is smaller than the PDA2K, but nice in the hand. Screen is absolutely beautiful.

MobilePaddy

09-13-2005, 11:46 PM

Interesting :

http://msmobiles.com/news.php/4268.html

whydidnt

09-14-2005, 02:32 AM

Well, I've been playing with this for a while now today. I posted in the Expansys thread when first received it, and to reiterate - it's very nice looking, well built, fabulous keyboard. I haven't used the phone function yet. I am not planning on using as a phone, so it's low on my list, though I'll probably pop my Cingular SIM in just to play.

I am very disappointed in the final memory configuration of this device. i-mate has taken 20 MB of ROM space for the Extended ROM, which are simply programs that are installed upon hard reset. This means 20 MB of our storage is wasted. We only get about 40 MB storage out of the 128 MB ROM - incredible!. 2nd the RAM configuration makes no sense to me. Supposedly the device has 64 MB RAM, but only 48 MB is available for running programs - What happened to the other 16 MB's?? After copying the necessary files from ROM to RAM to boot, we are left with less than 29 MB's available to execute other programs -- this is without installing a single application on my own. WM5 takes 19 MB of space to Run? I am left with the feeling that i-mate botched the memory implementation. Either that or everyone, including device manufacturers seriously underestimated RAM requirements for the new OS.

On to other thoughts - screen is very nice and bright. The swivel mechanism seems quite strong and moves smoothly. The screen automatically rotates when you flip to tablet mode or back - however I did notice some delay in this when having multiple programs open. Did I mention the keyboard is fabulous. :D I've noticed a few improvements in the base WM5 apps, Contacts supports many more fields, including multiple e-mail addresses, spouse & Children names and photos, plus some more. You can actually set a real reminder time for Tasks. The notification bubbles pop at the bottom instead of the top of the screen. You can push the soft menu button to snooze the reminder or jump to the task or calendar item from the reminder, a huge improvement in my opinion.

I would say the device is about 90% usuable with the keyboard - not quite up to Treo standards though. A few complaints with keyboard navigation, unless I've missed something: you can't check a task as complete with the keyboard, you have to open the task, navigate to status and change it. A pain, unless you want to pull out the stylus. To get to the address bar in IE you have scoll to the last link on the web page and then tab to the address bar, another PITA if it's a long page, again it begs for the stylus to be used. When editing notes in tasks or contacts, their isn't a way to change focus back to the details tab without using the stylus. Like I said, a nice improvement over WM2003, but far from perfect.

i-mate included Skype and Computer Assoc. AV in the previously extended ROM and they are installed upon hard reset. I will most likely uninstall both as I don't really see a need for either of them. The problem with putting them in the ext. ROM is a) takes up ROM space for no good reason. b) if I uninstall, I have no way of reinstalling without doing a hard reset. Seems to me these programs would have worked just fine if installed from a CD-ROM. They also include a Backgammon game that I haven't had a chance to try out yet.

I don't have any USB devices that use the mini-usb plug type so I haven't been able to see if it includes USB host capabilities or not. I'm inclined to think it may be possible in hardware, but hasn't been implemented in Software.

It found my Belkin Wireless Pre-N access point quickly, asked me if I wanted to connect, and then asked for my WPA key. VERY painless connection to my router. :D

The stylus is kind of short and wide, but I like it. I haven't any pictures of with the camera yet to comment on those.

I don't have any benchmark programs, but the device seems a little slower than my HX4700. There is a very slight delay in response at times, but certainly not a big enough delay to be huge concern.

I really like this device, for my needs it seems to be very usuable, kind of seems like what the old handheld PC's might have evolved into if MS hadn't decided to ignore that market. However, I am very troubled by the memory layout, it seems as more is indeed less with the new OS and Persistent storage. I'm going to see if I can find a GPS program that works with WM5 and see if It will fit in the limited available RAM. As mentioned earlier, I am left with the feeling that i-mate completely botched how they segregated the ROM and RAM on this thing.

I would love to hear from anyone "in the know" who could explain what happened to the memory on this beast.

tekhound

09-14-2005, 04:10 AM

Ok...

First off, I am a little confused on the memory issue like whydidnt. That seems to be the only problem I have with this so far.

Keyboard - very easy to use and has a very nice feel to it. I found myself not having to pull out the stylus much at all. For those PDA2K users, it will take a little while to get use to if you used the built-in keyboard in the PDA2K.

Screen - absolutely gorgeous!

Bluetooth - I have a crappy Motorola HS810 headset. I called my wife and she thought I was on my desk phone at the office. Voice dialing works and answering and ending calls on the headset works fine. Bluetooth pairing was very easy. Much better than the PDA2K.

Phone - easy to use and better sound quality when I have only one signal bar. A lot of nice screen features when in phone mode.

Battery Life - I've had WiFi and Bluetooth on most of the day and the battery life is quite surprising.

WiFi - I have connected to an Apple, Linksys and Proxim APs with WPA and have gotten connected in less than a minute. No problems.

Soft Case - Sucks! No belt clip so you are going to have to buy a 3rd party case.

I'll report more when I get my email setup tomorrow.

Phoenix

09-14-2005, 10:20 AM

Thanks, guys, for your feedback. Looking foward to any additions.

I've always said from long ago that these devices really need 128MB RAM despite some disagreeing with me or going so far as to label me "alarmist" :P. I did, however, question whether it was necessary on this device - perhaps they did something "different", but clearly, my original belief still holds true.

On the ROM side of things, the whole issue of persistent storage is perplexing to me, and in part based on the fact that you say there's only 40MB available in ROM for the end user. I've heard people talk in the past about persistent storage as though it was a new concept when people have been doing this with their devices for the last two years give or take. The only difference is, manufacturers have added in a bit more memory to the ROM side of things. But apparently not enough.

What's strange to me is why Imate, for instance, finally shipped a 1st gen. JAM with 128 MB of RAM (not a PPC Techs upgrade), but then in the JasJar, only chose to put in 64MB RAM. Makes no sense to me. These devices are only getting more and more sophisticated and subsequently will require more and more memory, so why they don't just make 128MB standard at this point is beyond me. People can talk all they want about battery life and cost and so on, but at some point manufacturers are going to have to increase memory whether they like it or not (which just boils down to the progressive nature of technology), so to me, those are no longer valid arguments for not increasing the memory, especially in light of a device that is already so expensive and sizable enough to hold a decent battery.

In the meantime, 64MB should mean 64MB. 128 should mean 128. I can understand having a bit of overhead for certain things, but for the system to take half or even more of the memory (and on both sides - ROM and RAM) before you've loaded your own programs, is just a harebrained design.

All things said, the Universal looks to be a great device and it's becoming increasingly difficult for me to hold to my plan on buying the Wizard, even with its superior wireless capabilities. However, if the content from the link that MobilePaddy listed above is true, we may be looking at an even better version of the "Big U" for the States.

galt

09-15-2005, 01:50 AM

I'm taking my time exploring the Jas Jar, so there's quite a bit I haven't tested.

First of all, a few of the great things about this device

- external hardware design - the screen is fantastic, bright, and clear, the keyboard looks and feels amazing, the external color of the device is really... sexy. The two speakers on the side of the device handle very loud sound which is nice. It can really blast, although it's not what you could call "high quality" audio.

- user interface - I'm liking the way I interact with WM 5.0 on the Jas Jar. The softkeys work really well, lots of useful hardware shortcuts, the whole things works nicely. I was worried that I'd have to poke at the screen for everything, but it hasn't been that bad. There's no Ctrl key on the keyboard, but you can use the FN+space bar to bring up a menu that includes cut/copy/paste.

- radios (wifi, GSM, GPRS) - all working great, wifi is strong and connects easily and quickly. I'm on T-mobile USA and I'm not having any trouble with signal strength or call quality (although I've only made a couple of calls

- size - when I first started using it it felt a little large for a mobile device, but I'm coming from a Sidekick/Hiptop (much smaller device) background. After a single day using it I'm not at all concerned about the size and it's mobility.

On the downside...

The amount of memory (ROM/RAM) available to the user feels a little cramped, although I feel comfortable with it right now. Hmm... "cramped" but "comfortable", maybe I should have said it's "snug"?

I still have a lot of configuration to do, but I'm finding my device to be pretty sluggish in operation (even before I installed a single program). I'm coming from using a 624 MHz Axim X30, so I don't know if I'm just spoiled or if there's some Jas Jar performance issues. I notice it most when minimizing one program or changing from/to landscape/portrait; it is slow to redraw the screen. I just counted a near three second lag between changing the screen over to when it finally finished redrawing the entire screen (part of it was stuck in the previous view). I'm also seeing frame droppage on TCMP (BetaPlayer) that I never saw on my Axim X30, I've tried messing with some settings but so far it hasn't improved.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the device (the hardware design is outstanding), but a little shocked that it's this sluggish. Having paid what I paid I did expect a device that didn't have a many trade-offs. In fact, that's why I chose to get a Universal even though it cost so much, because I didn't want to have a device that compromised on performance. In it's current state I can't say that I'd recommend it at this price to anyone but the most hard core.

On the lag... What do you guys think, is this due to WM5 and the slowness of using ROM, or the 520 MHz processor combined w/a VGA screen, or might it be something else that might be fixable via firmware/ROM updates? Or am I just spoiled on my 624 MHz Axim?

*edit* - if anyone has any useful info about settings for Gmail POP (got it pulling, but over GPRS it wont download the full message and then it deletes it off the device at next POP pull) or for GPRS and SMS settings on T-mobile (I've got GPRS working, mostly, and inbound SMS only) please PM me. This is my first PPC Phone device, so I've got some learning to do. Thanks.

Nurhisham Hussein

09-15-2005, 07:25 AM

I'd be inclined to think its the VGA screen. I have a FSC PL720, which has a similar processor-screen setup. It's not 'sluggish' per se, but it does feel a little slower than my 2210. You should be aware that unless a program is optimised for that screen (supports VGA natively) its going to hog the battery as the processor will have to work overtime pixel-doubling everything. Fact is, any QVGA program will slow down your machine and/or eat power.

For video playback, try to keep to QVGA or VGA resolution. Resolutions in between will also...yup, eat processor time and battery. This may be the cause of the frame drops you're seeing.

galt

09-16-2005, 05:30 AM

I'll have to try some differently encoded video, thanks for the tip.

I finally gave up on Gmail POP and SPB Pocket Plus did a hard reset, uninstalled and reinstalled ActiveSync 4 and installed everything else one by one carefully. AHHH... SO MUCH BETTER! The device is less slugish, my POP (comcast) is pulling just fine even over GPRS, my wifi works again (I had screwed something up), I can leave my GPRS on all day if I want...

Here's the things I'm looking for now. I'm using Resco's today screen plugin and it works fine enough to replace that part of SPB Pocket Plus. Can anyone suggest a program to replace SPB's "program closer" thingy? The one that changes the mechanics of the PPC's program close (minimize) button?

I'm also looking for a good program to use for AIM. I'm using imov and it's working ok, but it's still not great. Ideally I'd love to find something that can integrate well on the today screen (show unread IM's) and also pop up a notice when messaged. Any suggestions, has anyone tried IM+ on WM 5?

galt

09-17-2005, 01:03 AM

I had been having trouble getting my RSS reader NewsBreak to work, but via their very helpful tech support folks I found that the newest trial version works fine. My device feels almost whole now with RSS!

Here's the link to the current download of the new trial version (the latest version is 1.1.0.1032): http://www.iliumsoft.com/download.php?platform=PocketPC&product=NewsBreak&filetype=exe

Has anyone found a fix (registry edit I assume) for the damn auto-home page of the hardware IE button being set to club imate? It drives me freaking nuts that they would do that, and it overrides whatever home page you have set on. If you launch via programs or a software shortcut to IE it launches your home page, the hardware key launches theirs!

tekhound

09-17-2005, 01:24 AM

Thank god I'm not the only one pissed off at the IE button going to club imate. I assume as soon as XDA-Developers get the unlock tool for the universal figured out, we can go in and just remove the cab file that does that. In the mean time, I just mapped the video conference button on the top of the keyboard to go to IE. Since VC will not work without 3G and t-mobile isn't doing that anytime soon, I figured I would put it to good use.

Anyone figured out how to do a page down with a key combination in IE? Sometimes programmers use the space bar, or shift and the arrow, but none of those do the trick.

Michael

whydidnt

09-17-2005, 05:53 AM

I had the same issue - from XDA-Developers.com here is the fix:

Go to - HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Hardware\OEM\Keybd
Change the string called PieHomePage to the website address of your choice.

If you don't want it to do anything but go back to the spot in IE you left off -
Just edit the dword so that it is blank. This is what I did.

palur

09-19-2005, 07:08 PM

whydidnt

09-19-2005, 07:41 PM

I am embarassed at my own ignorance. How are you able to use this as a phone in USA when no carrier is carrying it?
Could this be used on Cingular network also?
USB: can we attach USB flash memory and download files on to this?
Thank you in advance.

The phone is GSM Compatible on the 1900 band - Cingular uses this frequency in many cities and it is the only frequency used by TMobile in the US. You can pull the Subscriber Identity Module (SIM) out of your existing phone and put it in this and it should work whereever you can pick up the 1900 band. Cingular also uses the 850 band in many cities, so if you are tied to Cingular, you'll want to test the 1900 Mhz frequency where you plan to use this as phone before investing in it.

Right now, it does not appear to provide a USB host function to enable the connection of USB devices sush as Flash drives, etc. There is some hope that this might be enabled at a future date, but to be honest, I haven't seen any official announcment that this is even possible.

palur

09-19-2005, 07:51 PM

whydidnt

09-19-2005, 11:08 PM

Thank you very much for the info. Is it possible to know if 1900 Mhz is available everywhere without asking Cingular? Do you know if HTC apache by Sprint can use USB host for downloading stuff from flash drives?
Thanks again.

I'm sorry I don't know the answer to either of these questions. It sounds like people are starting to receive the Apache, though so we should find out soon. :D

Nurhisham Hussein

09-20-2005, 01:42 AM

Right now, it does not appear to provide a USB host function to enable the connection of USB devices sush as Flash drives, etc. There is some hope that this might be enabled at a future date, but to be honest, I haven't seen any official announcment that this is even possible.

I've seen another thread where they were able to confirm that it does have USB Host, or at least USB OTG. Have you tried this with a host cable?

whydidnt

09-20-2005, 02:38 AM

I've seen another thread where they were able to confirm that it does have USB Host, or at least USB OTG. Have you tried this with a host cable?

No, but I'm not sure where I would find a host cable for the device, or if that would matter.. I tried plugging a thumb drive into the mini-usb plug with an adapter, but it doesn't appear that the mini-port is providing any power.

Can you point me to the thread you mention, I've been reading several on this and haven't found anyone yet who could get it to work. It would be great if there was a solution.

Nurhisham Hussein

09-21-2005, 07:07 AM

Had to search a bit to find it:

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000713057093/#c428146

This is for the generic universal, and may not apply to the Jasjar. Still worth a shot trying - it says female USB-A to female USB-A? Also, if power is a problem, you might want to put a powered hub in between.

shivafool

09-26-2005, 04:28 AM

Thanks for the great info.
Galt, if you're still around, I'm wondering if you've tried using the internet over T-mobile's GPRS? What's that like? Too frustratingly slow to be worth it?

Kadegboye

09-28-2005, 02:19 AM

Hi,
Has anybody thought of why this device has two cameras? I haven't got my hand on this device yet but to me, it is probably superfluous to have two cameras in it. If it were not there, it would probably have reduced the size, weight or the space could have been used for something else more useful.
Kay.

whydidnt

09-28-2005, 02:31 AM

Hi,
Has anybody thought of why this device has two cameras? I haven't got my hand on this device yet but to me, it is probably superfluous to have two cameras in it.

Well, the larger camera is on the back of the device. This allows you to uses the screen as your viewfinder to take picturs, just like a standard camera. There wouldn't really be a practical way to use it for video calls, unless you held the phone the entire time, which would get old. The smaller camera is next to the screen and, in laptop mode, can be set to face right at you while the device sits on a desk. That way you can see the screen and the camera can see you at the same time. I suppose some sort of swivel design couldn't have been made to accomplish the same thing, but I'm not sure that would have saved any space or weight, when you figure the swivel mechanism.

Nurhisham Hussein

09-28-2005, 04:48 AM

The smaller camera is exclusively for 3G/UMTS video calls. The larger one of course, serves as an actual camera.

Menneisyys

10-04-2005, 05:29 PM

whydidnt

10-04-2005, 07:33 PM

Could any Jasjar user/owner please comment on the remarks at http://www.expansys.es/forumthread.asp?code=119353&thread=42 ? I'd really like to know how much available (not total!) RAM it has and whether the complaints in the linked thread (PIM stuff taking up 20 Mbytes; only 20 Mbytes of RAM free after a reset etc) are true.

I would say that report is generally correct, it would appear that WM5 loads the entire PIM database into RAM at reset, so depending on the size of your db it could take up substantial memory. After a soft reset I have 30.21 free storage and 28.87 free Program memory. I loaded a couple programs to storage (TCMP & PI), so I'm using 2.67 MB of storage ROM with my own programs, but I uninstalled Skype, CA AntiVirus and Backgammon, which had been taking up about 7 MB of space after a hard reseet. They are obviously taking up that much space of the extended ROM too, what a waste.

Regarding the RAM - I installed the upgraded ROM found at Club i-mate and was rewarded with about 2.5 MB more available RAM. They changed the program partition, so it's only taking up about 14 MB of space now. After flashing the ROM - which includes a hard reset there was about 19 MB of RAM in use - total available was right under 30 MB. After synchronizing my PIM apps (not loading any programs) and doing a soft reset, I lost about 3 MB's of RAM - as 22.09 MB are now in use, leaving the 28.7 available to execute additional programs. This is why I think the PIM db's are copied to RAM on boot.

It is my opinion that WM5 is much less efficient at managing memory and 64 MB of RAM is not sufficient for power users.

whydidnt

10-04-2005, 07:38 PM

Menneisyys

10-04-2005, 08:03 PM

I also have to add that I still don't understand why there is ~14 MB of RAM reserved on boot. What is that used for? I could understand if the OS was loaded there, but that doesn't seem to be the case, since over 20 MB of other RAM is also consumed on boot up. With WM2003SE, my 4700 (also VGA) only consumed about 13 MB of space after a reboot. WM5 is taking up a whopping 36 MB of RAM just after boot.

WM5 is much more wasteful with memory, compared even to WM2003SE.

For example, some comparison:

x50v (64M RAM), WM2003SE, available RAM: 61.75M
x51v (64M RAM), WM5, available RAM: 32.65M (source: FirstLoox (http://www.firstloox.org/VGAppc.htm))
PPC 6700 (64M RAM), WM5, available RAM: 40.42M (source: PhoneArena (http://phonearena.com/htmls/Preview-of-the-HTC-Apache-or-PPC-6700-article-a_662.html))