Expansys UK Now Shipping iMate JASJAR for £664.95

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=119353' target='_blank'>http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=119353</a><br /><br /></div><i>"The i-Mate JASJAR is an ideal mobile device for email, Internet browsing and getting access to corporate LAN resources. Capable of Tri-band GSM/GPRS worldwide, it also features 180° rotating screen, full QWERTY keyboard, in-built Bluetooth and WiFi for inter-device connectivity. This device is SIM free and very similar to the T-Mobile MDA PRO, O2 Exec, Orange M5000 and Vodafone VDA IV. The device can be folded out to give access to the keyboard, or folded back for touchscreen-only use. A 1.3 megapixel camera is included, which can take both still pictures and video clips."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/b119353.jpg" /> <br /><br />Expansys is infamous for pre-announcing products that aren't available for months, but they say they have 689 in stock, so this would seem to be legit. I just can't get over the price: with the US dollar in it's current weak state, this device is a staggering $1240 USD! It would cost $1474.81 in Canadian currency...I can buy two cheap laptops for that price. 8O I know this device is an impressive technological feat, but the price just seems insane to me. What are your thoughts? Will you buy one no matter the cost, or do you have a price threshold that you won't go over when buying a Pocket PC?

[Raphael Salgado]

£565.91 is the selling price for US customers, which translates out to $1038.91 USD, plus shipping. If you're in the UK or areas subject to VAT tax, then you have to add the VAT, which would only then make it translate to nearly $1240 USD.

Please note that it's been confirmed in this HowardForums thread I started (http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=720511) that for US customers who are considering it, the bottom line is: DON'T.

It does not have 850MHz band support.
It does not have EDGE support for faster broadband access.
It has UMTS/WCDMA, but it's on the 2100MHz band that Cingular (who is the only UMTS-supported US carrier) does not use. So you'll never be able to use that feature in the US.

It's really a shame, as this device would have made a great impact here. What's funny is the video link (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/_assets/video/TechEd/Final-MobilityV7-300K.wvx) on Expansys product page shows a guy in Chicago using this device, even though the notification icons during his calls are wrong. Ironically, there's no UMTS in Chicago either (according to Cingular's white paper on UMTS (http://www.cingular.com/media/downloads/UMTS%20Overview%20datasheet%20.pdf)).

[Jon Westfall]

While I'd give nearly my right leg for this device, I'll wait until I actually hear of people getting them. Expansys has rubbed me wrong in the past with their "In Stock" claims. Besides, if they are truly rolling out, these babies should be popping up everywhere soon!

[Paragon]

I just can't get over the price: with the US dollar in it's current weak state, this device is a staggering $1240 USD! It would cost $1474.81 in Canadian currency...I can buy two cheap laptops for that price. 8O

I agree fully, Jason. I think this is a great device, and it is going to make some folks very happy, but for many I think the price is just way to high.

I am curious to see how things go with this device in the coming weeks, over here in North America. With the high cost, large size, lack of 850mhz band, or EDGE, and the unlikelihood of any carriers picking it up, sales could very disappointing.

Dave

[brianchris]

The HTC Universal is my first choice for my next device, but indeed, I have a price cieling. I do believe the price will come down, especially after a US Wireless carrier offers it.

On a side note, did anyone else watch that video at the bottom of that expansys description? I had never seen it before, and it highlighted a feature of WM I hadn't heard of before: Remote Device Hard Reset (in case its lost or stolen). I thought I knew almsot everything there was to know about WM5, but alas that's not the case. Who knows, maybe that was old news to everyone but myself, but if not, that video should be the subject of a PPCT front page post!

[Paragon]

Remote Device Hard Reset (in case its lost or stolen)

That is new feature of Exchange SP2 and WM 5.0

[dommasters]

Mine arrives tomorrow am :0). Expansys have always been brilliant in my experience.

[whydidnt]

I think the reality for many of us in the US is that this device could be a great PDA, but not phone. I'm strongly considering a purchase without intending on every using the phone portion of the device. It's too bad someone can't make a clamshell, qwety PPC with top of the line specs like this one has. The reality for me is that it's too big to use as a phone anyway, though if it offered high-speed internet access in the US that would be all the better.

[ricksfiona]

Way too much money.

[dto71]

£565.91 is the selling price for US customers, which translates out to $1038.91 USD, plus shipping. 8O

It's nice, but it's just too rich for my blood. I'm hoping the HTC Apache/PPC-6700 will be more reasonable price-wise.

It seems that as pocket PC phones get into the same price level as full-size computers, the phone carriers that sell them are going to have to start offering some type of installment payments. I just bought a Dell laptop ($1400) with a Dell account that allows me to pay same as cash anytime before January 2007. If carriers allowed these sorts of setups, it seems they'd get more buyers, but they don't seem to see any difference between buying a $39.99 cell phone and a $650 pocket PC phone.

Of course, if carriers are doing these types of deals and I'm just in the dark, please let me know!

[hiatus]

I was gonna get the phone, but then I got turned down by the fact that it is too big and not too comfort as a phone, it will be the best pda for me though :)

Price is way too high anyways

[kaitanium]

oh heck no. well there are people who will out there...i mean there are people paying $1200+ for a motorola PEBL on ebay already.......and that does even less than this

[saru83]

Different people thinks in Different ways, it IS expensive for some people but its WORTH every penny for others.... for me ITs worth it....

[ucfgrad93]

Way too much money.

Ditto. I'd never pay that much for a pda or a phone or combination!

[Philip Colmer]

What are your thoughts? Will you buy one no matter the cost, or do you have a price threshold that you won't go over when buying a Pocket PC?
If Vodafone do one SIM-free at a reasonable price, I'll get one for "business use" :lol:.

At the moment (as of yesterday), they aren't telling me what the launch date is for it. Until then, I won't know what the price will be.

--Philip

[lanwarrior]

Way too much money.

Ditto. I'd never pay that much for a pda or a phone or combination!

I got a VAIO S460 mini-laptop (about the size of an enlarged paperback) for less than $ 1600 with Pentium M and 128 Mb Nvidia GeForce 6200.

It's not pocketable, but I can carry it with my backpack that I always carry to work.

No way I am going to pay more than $ 700 for a PDA with limited functionality.

[humayunl]

The price is way too high... for me at least. I draw the line at $600-$700 tops...

Plus, the more I see it, I am worried that it may be a bit too large to be a "pocket" device.

So I might just hold off on the purchase of the universal for the first 6 months in hopes that the 1) price will drop somewhat and 2) more devices will be announced with similar/better specs (bluetooth 2.0, better camera resolution, no keyboard, faster processor) and a better size.

[brianchris]

Remote Device Hard Reset (in case its lost or stolen)

That is new feature of Exchange SP2 and WM 5.0

I figured it was a function of Exchange 2003 SP2 (along with WM5). I hope your post was not implying I thought it was fully contained within WM5. All I was saying was, regardless if Exchange 2003 SP2 was involved or not (which i knew it was), it was a feature I had not heard of before. And I'm still impressed with that feature!

[Paragon]

I figured it was a function of Exchange 2003 SP2 (along with WM5). I hope your post was not implying I thought it was fully contained within WM5. All I was saying was, regardless if Exchange 2003 SP2 was involved or not (which i knew it was), it was a feature I had not heard of before. And I'm still impressed with that feature!

Nope. I was just clarifying it for those who may have been wondering.

It is a good security feature, for sure.

Dave

[whydidnt]

The price is way too high... for me at least. I draw the line at $600-$700 tops...

Plus, the more I see it, I am worried that it may be a bit too large to be a "pocket" device.

I agree it's a steep price, and definitely not for everyone. I, however, have ordered one. I currently own an OQO, but have found too many compromises with it to use at a PDA. I was looking at spending about $2000 to purchase an ultra-mini laptop such as the Toshiba Libretto or Fujitsu P1500 - but those are both larger and a little over 2 pounds. So I decided to spend $1000 less and go with the Universal, which I think will meet my needs.

I use my PPC for both work and play, but my biggest use is keeping track of business related information. I call on several clients a month and being able to electronically store the contact and follow up information electronically is vital to me. I have been frustrated by the various input methods afforded in current PPC's - (The Sony UX50 was the best thumboard I ever used) and am hopeful the Universal's thumboard will fit the bill. I can't see dragging a portable keyboard along with my PDA as that defeats the purpose and would be clunky to pull out and use in client meetings anyway.

After I receive and play with the Universal I'll let you know if it is the device I'm hoping for, or just another in a long line of disappointments. BTW - I don't plan on using the phone portion of the device at this point. I want to be able to easily pocket my phone.

[brianchris]

I think that people who have bought this (or are considering it) who don't intend to use it as a phone are smart, as this particular unit (from Expansys) is only tri-band.....it doesn't have the 850 band, which is important for those of us in the U.S. The universal has everything......except quad band GSM. Hopefully there will be an 850 GSM version of it for the U.S.

[Jon Westfall]

..it doesn't have the 850 band, which is important for those of us in the U.S. The universal has everything......except quad band GSM. Hopefully there will be an 850 GSM version of it for the U.S.

Not Important if Your On T-Mobile :D

[brianchris]

..it doesn't have the 850 band, which is important for those of us in the U.S. The universal has everything......except quad band GSM. Hopefully there will be an 850 GSM version of it for the U.S.

Not Important if Your On T-Mobile :D

Very true (I almost mentioned that). Thanks for clarifying.

[Pocket PC Dubai]

It is available in Dubai (Unlocked) and sold at $1168 cheapest!

That’s expensive :roll:

[wgp]

So from a person who is not familar with the specifics of US Wireless services will the JasJar which supports Tri-Band GSM/GPRS (900/1800/1900) work with T-Mobile?

What service type does T-Mobile actually support?

Thanks
Bill

[brianchris]

So from a person who is not familar with the specifics of US Wireless services will the JasJar which supports Tri-Band GSM/GPRS (900/1800/1900) work with T-Mobile?

What service type does T-Mobile actually support?

Thanks
Bill

T-Mobile uses no more or different bands than you listed above. Therefore, this particular unit will work great with T-Mobile. Not so for Cingular (as they use the 850 band).

[fresh-popcorn]

There is no way I would pay over $1000 for a PPC.
I thought $550 was bad enough when I bought my SX66 but sheesh.

For just over $1000 you can buy a very small light notebook from Dell when they have those $750 off $1499 purchases.

Not that I am cheap but just do the math/economics
Well a little on the cheap side :D

[fresh-popcorn]

So from a person who is not familar with the specifics of US Wireless services will the JasJar which supports Tri-Band GSM/GPRS (900/1800/1900) work with T-Mobile?

What service type does T-Mobile actually support?

Thanks
Bill

Actually T-Mobile USA uses 1900mhz band.
While Cingular uses 850/1900.
The problem with Cingular is that come cities/states will use mostly 850mhz while other cities will use mostly 1900mhz.

[Jason Lee]

plus the UTMS built into the jasjar will not work in this contry even if tmobile adopts it. the frequencies are different.

[whydidnt]

There is no way I would pay over $1000 for a PPC.
I thought $550 was bad enough when I bought my SX66 but sheesh.

For just over $1000 you can buy a very small light notebook from Dell when they have those $750 off $1499 purchases.

Not that I am cheap but just do the math/economics
Well a little on the cheap side :D

You are comparing apples to oranges - that small light notebook you mention still is 3 lbs. heavier and not-pocketable. As I suggested earlier, the true comparison is to a ultra-portable, or handtop computer, and you won't find any of those for under $1500 US - and even then that device will be bigger and have other compromises as well.

This doesn't mean I expect many people to run off an buy the Universal at this price. Many won't see the need/benefit. However, don't kid yourself into thinking a 4 lb notebook is any kind of comparable device to the Universal. Let's see what those of us who have ordered one think of it, before we bash it and it's price, or annoint it the greatest device ever. :wink:

[weatheryoko]

I just purchased a JasJar unit as well from eXpansys. (My last PDA was an iPAQ 4100). I plan on using it mainly for a PDA replacement, but I am looking into a "Pay as you go" with a cellular company. I don't have a cell phone and personally I hate them, but because I drive around a lot, I'm thinking it might not be such a bad thing to have in case you get yourself into an emergency. I also would like to get a "pay as you go" data/internet plan. I have TomTom 5 and it allows me to get traffic updates if I can connect to the internet while driving. I don't plan on doing heavy web surfing via EDGE/GSM/GPRS/UTMS, but I have some question on this technology. All my questions are based on using this device in the US (I realize the answers change when to go to other parts of the world).

My question(s) are this:
1) EDGE (I've gathered) is the latest rage and gives much faster download speed than either GSM or GPRS. Is that correct? In fact I think I've read somewhere that it is also referred to as "2.5G" because it is slightly slower than "3G" technology. Correct again?

2) From the information I've been able to dig up, it sounds like frequencies that are compatable with the JasJar and the cell companies are:
Cingular: 1900
T-Moble: 900 and 1900
Is this correct?

3) What frequencies does GSM or GPRS run at?

4) Which is faster between GSM and GPRS?

5) Does EDGE only run on the 850 Mhz frequency band?

6) Does the UTMS (on the JasJar) uses the 2100MHz band? And does anyone in the US use UTMS technology (on the 2100 MHz band)?

7) Are 3G and UTMS synonymous?

Thanks for your help. Sorry if these are dumb question and if they have been addressed/answered ad nauseum. If someone could direct me to where I can find the answers to my questions, I would appreciate it. Thank you again.

[brianchris]

I can answer some of the above questions, but first some definitions (which will probably answer a lot of your questions by themselves).

-GSM is the voice standard, not a data one (although you can make data calls over GSM (just like over a regular wired phone line) IF the carrier allows it.....HDCSD or something like that is the acronym). 9.6kbps speed.
-GPRS is the always on "high spped" data counterpart to GSM. Its high speed relative to previous cellular data speeds, NOT your home braodband connection.
-EDGE is an evolution of GPRS......its still GPRS, just faster.
-2.5G and 3G have to do with speeds, but there are no defining limits to them. They also indicate when in history a standard was developed.

As far as your specific questions:
1) see definitions above.
2) I believe that is correct.
3) GSM and GPRS can run in four possible bands, 850, 900, 1800, &amp; 1900. Some bands are used in some countries more than others. Therefore, if you have a quad-band GSM phone, it would work whereever in the world there was GSM signal.
4) GPRS is WAY faster, GSM is only good for dial-up networking (to home or dial-up ISP).
5) EDGE runs on any GSM band.
6) I don't know, but surely someone else does.
7) I believe UTMS is a 3G technology, but there are other 3G technologies.

Anyone please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of that.

[whydidnt]

My question(s) are this:
1) EDGE (I've gathered) is the latest rage and gives much faster download speed than either GSM or GPRS. Is that correct? In fact I think I've read somewhere that it is also referred to as "2.5G" because it is slightly slower than "3G" technology. Correct again?
Yes EDGE is considered 2.5G (generation) technology, Data download speeds are significantly slower than 3G technologys such as UTMS, EvDO. However, the JasJar does not support EDGE, so here in the US you are stuck with GPRS (2G) speeds.


2) From the information I've been able to dig up, it sounds like frequencies that are compatable with the JasJar and the cell companies are:
Cingular: 1900
T-Moble: 900 and 1900
Is this correct?
Well, T-Mobile in the US only uses the 1900 band. Cingular also uses the 850 band and in some areas that is only band the offer, so for Cingular users, this may not be a great phone.


3) What frequencies does GSM or GPRS run at?
You mentioned some in question 2. I believe GPRS runs in the same frequencies as the GSM frequencies mentioned, but someone here could correct me if I'm wrong.


4) Which is faster between GSM and GPRS?
Well, they are typically used for different things - GSM for voice, and GPRS for data, so they aren't really comparable.


5) Does EDGE only run on the 850 Mhz frequency band?
No, but again, the JasJar doesn't support Edge, so it probably doesn't matter in this context. T-Mobile is said to be rolling out EDGE in the 1900 Mhz frequency right now.


6) Does the UTMS (on the JasJar) uses the 2100MHz band? And does anyone in the US use UTMS technology (on the 2100 MHz band)?
No one in the US uses the 2100 Mhz band for this technology, and it is what the JasJar uses - so no UTMS with the current model in the US.


7) Are 3G and UTMS synonymous?
No, UTMS is a form of 3G technology, but it is not the only form.

The JasJar should work well for you if your plans are to use it primarily as a PDA, just be aware of the phone/data limitations mentioned above and you should be happy. The GPRS connection will probably be sufficient for the traffic data you mentioned, if you have a data plan with your phone plan.

[Jon Westfall]

So, did anyone who bought one from Expansys get it yet? I'm fairly curious!

[weatheryoko]

Thanks for the quick answers. I will continue to follow the thread in case anyone else wants to further elaborate on your answers. Honestly, I will have to re-read your posts a few times to learn all the lingo/acronyms. I'm looking forward to receiving my unit (eXpansys says they should ship from the US early next week. Fingers crossed).

[Phoenix]

My question(s) are this:

1) EDGE (I've gathered) is the latest rage and gives much faster download speed than either GSM or GPRS. Is that correct? In fact I think I've read somewhere that it is also referred to as "2.5G" because it is slightly slower than "3G" technology. Correct again?

As far as GSM networks and data are concerned:

And keep in mind two things:
- Speed estimates I list below are more on the realistic/typical side (not just theoretical - for the exception of HSUPA) but can vary depending on many different variables such as network congestion, etc.
- These estimates are download speeds only (not upload speeds which are slower) except for the case of HSUPA (which focuses entirely on upload speed).

- Data flowing over GSM (via CSD or HSCSD @ an average of 10 Kbps) is 2G
- GPRS (@ 50 Kbps) is 2.5G
- EDGE (E-GPRS - the evolution of GPRS @ 100 Kbps) is 2.75G
- UMTS (@ 300 Kbps) is 3G
- HSDPA (the evolution of UTMS (increased download speeds) @ &lt;=2 Mbps) is 3.5G
- HSUPA (continuing evolution of UTMS (increased upload speeds) @ up to 5.8 Mbps theoretical) is 3.75G

NTT DaCoMo in Japan is working on 4G (up to 20 Mbps download) data transmission speeds and beyond (Gbps).

And remember, it's UMTS, not UTMS. I know, it's easy to get this mixed up. :wink:


And of course, then there are the CDMA (aka CDMA2000) data networks like:
- CDMA2000 1xRTT (which is also 2.75G)
- CDMA2000 1xEV-DO (which is also 3G)

But CDMA2000 (CDMA) networks and how they compare to W-CDMA (GSM) networks is for another discussion...

I know, it can be confusing.


2) From the information I've been able to dig up, it sounds like frequencies that are compatable with the JasJar and the cell companies are:

Cingular: 1900
T-Moble: 900 and 1900

Is this correct?

T-Mobile in the States doesn't use the 900 MHz frequency - this is used only in Europe and other countries outside of ours. The JasJar is however, compatible with the 900/1800 (Europe/Other) and 1900 (U.S.) frequencies.

T-Mobile in the States only operates on 1900 MHz, but they have roaming agreements with other networks that use the 850 MHz band. Cingular networks operate on 1900 as well as 850, but of course the JasJar won't operate on 850, so its use in the U.S. will be very limited on Cingular's networks or when roaming with T-Mobile.


3) What frequencies does GSM or GPRS run at?

GSM:
- In the U.S. - 850/1900
- In Europe and other countries - 900/1800

GPRS: operates over all these frequencies


4) Which is faster between GSM and GPRS?

GSM in and of itself is for voice, but it used to use CSD and HSCSD technology for transmitting data. GPRS then, is faster.


5) Does EDGE only run on the 850 Mhz frequency band?

No, EDGE should operate over all the frequencies that the GSM provider offers, which in the case of the U.S. is 850 and 1900 MHz.


6) Does the UTMS (on the JasJar) use the 2100MHz band? And does anyone in the US use UTMS technology (on the 2100 MHz band)?

UMTS in Europe as I understand it operates on both 1900 and 2100 MHz frequencies (1900 for uploading and 2100 for downloading data), where as in the U.S., UMTS will operate on 1900 MHz (and perhaps 850 MHz) for both uploading and downloading data, through Cingular. The 2100 MHz frequency in the States is currently being used (for satellite transmissions, I believe), so it's currently unavailable for cellular services for consumers here in the States. The FCC has said it may release the 2100 MHz frequency for cellular use at some point in the future, but don't hold your breath.

Keeping this in mind, and considering the fact that the JasJar was created at this point primarily for European 3G data networks, it'll operate on both the 1900 and 2100 MHz frequencies I listed above. But this means that there will be compatibility issues when using it with Cingular's 3G network, because the phone will be looking for the 1900 band frequency to upload data, but when it doesn't find the 2100 band frequency to download data (as it's been designed to do), it'll be stopped dead in its tracks.

Not to mention, UMTS here in the States will have to share spectrum with voice services because they'll both operate on the 1900 MHz band. In Europe and elsewhere, UMTS doesn't have to share bandwidth with voice services because voice services in those areas are operating on 900 and 1800 MHz and UMTS on 1900 and 2100 Mhz.

We're really going to have to wait for an Amercian version of the JasJar for it to be truly useful here.


7) Are 3G and UTMS synonymous?

I answered this, but once again, 3G can refer to either UMTS (GSM/W-CDMA data) or CDMA2000 1xEV-DO (CDMA data).


Keep in mind (and I'm sure you're aware of this, but I'll say it anyway), that all this technology is progressing at an insane rate, so some of this info could change in the very near future.

Also, when you really get into studying how all of this technology actually works and how its different technological layers are comprised, the terms, acronyms and so on begin to overlap - different services share some of the same components while using new ones, etc., and it can get very confusing. I tried to keep it as simple as I could.

Hope that helps.

[dommasters]

Just got mine ... and liked it so much that ... I put it straight on Ebay :D

You can drool over it here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=6431703325

PS What were Microsoft thinking of with that new crappy WM2005 menu system ?

[supermoocow]

Just got mine ... and liked it so much that ... I put it straight on Ebay :D


So what made you decide to sell it?
Was it the key size?

I tried the mock demo in an orange shop and found the keys a little on the small size to type with &amp; thats with my ickle finger so god only knows how people with mullet hands will cope....

Go on give us a brief review of the item.

[dommasters]

Just got mine ... and liked it so much that ... I put it straight on Ebay :D


So what made you decide to sell it?
Was it the key size?

I tried the mock demo in an orange shop and found the keys a little on the small size to type with &amp; thats with my ickle finger so god only knows how people with mullet hands will cope....

Go on give us a brief review of the item.
Well it's certainly a gorgeous well made device, but as a phone it will be like holding a wardrobe to your ear :? There are laptops almost this "small" and I'd much rather have one of those. Also I never carry my phone in a protective cover which is fine for most devices but I think this one would suffer ...

No problem with keys. I like them.

I thought this device would be far smaller than it is ... quite huge compared to the Jam ... and the K Jam has a keyboard ....

i-mate Jam is still the best device I've ever owned and I will get the new K-Jam soon ....

... basically JasJar is a fab device for the right type of person, just not right for me ... personal thing ...

[aviator]

I've been playing with my JasJar for more than a day now. There are some pics in this thread at Esato (http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=91923) where I am a moderator.

So far I have found that AvantGo integrated client won't install. It errors with a message saying that it needs activesync to be installed, which of course it is, but its the new version 4. For that reas I have had to install the full client and sync it independantly from activesync

Worldate standard 5.1 installs but exits with no message when I try to run it

voice command has installed but I'm still figuring out the best button to assign it to

the unit is not as big as I imagined. In fact its roughly the same size as my old hp4700 except for being around 1cm thicker. I can't imagine talking on it directly at my ear so I'll be pairing it up with my bluespoon ax today. There is a special application on the device for creating voice speed dial and I'll definitly have to try the preinstalled skype application.

wifi works great, similar to windows setup and also similar to the setup I did with the sandisk wifi SD card on my JAM.

there is a control window, similar to what was in the hp4700, for activating/deactivating wifi, phone and bluetooth individually or turning them all off. strangely you can't turn them all on in this window. Instead you have to use the comms icon in the top of the window and choose "turn off flight mode".

I am finding it a little unresponsive at times. I can press the start key and wait for it to display the start menu. If I then click programs I can wait a while for it to show all the program icons. I may hard reset the device if this continues to see if that makes a difference.

The keyboard is very usable, though not in standard touch typist fashion. I have found the when going to make a call I can use the numbers in the top row of the keypad to enter a number but I can't use the alpha characters to find a contact. Instead I have to click on the dialling keypad on screen to choose the letters assigned to each digit 0-9 in order to lookup a contact, much like on the JAM. I can however click the contacts softkey and then use the keyboard to type the name.

I do like the addition of a windows key on the keyboard. I use this alot on my pc keyboard I expect I will use it alot on the JasJar, especially if I find some shortcuts with the key like there is in windows.

There are some keys that are hard to read. They are in a red colour sharing the numeric digits and some other keys and require the FN button to be pressed to use those characters, but the red colour is just quite hard to read in all but the best daylight conditions.

The camera is crap, as it was with the JAM. It seems they have done nothing to improve the horrible 1.3 megapixel cmos camera which shows alot of blue noise in even slightly dim conditions.

I have to agree that its expensive. I limited that a little by taking the cheapest o2 contract as I needed a new sim for my daughter anyway, and that saved £210 + VAT

Overall its a good unit offering all the various communications means available (except edge which is not available here anyway) though its performance is worrying me a little. I'll have to see how it goes when using it to travel to the office and back on the train next week. I also have the k-jam on order so I'll be deciding which I prefer and which I will use more and I'll be sending the other back as expansys have a 21 day no questions return policy

[whydidnt]

Thanks for the write-up Aviator. Informative for those of us who are anxiously awaiting the arrival of our new baby. :wink:

I wonder if the delays you see on the start menu and again in showing programs are the result of the changes WM5 brings. Since the programs are now stored in Flash memory, I imagine it takes longer to read the shortcuts, you would think MS might have "prefetched" those and loaded into flash like they do on the desktop to avoid the delays, but maybe that's too resource intensive, or would add significantly to boot times.

Please keep us advised of any other pros or cons you find once you are able to use it more frequently.

[humayunl]

Aviator, Whydidnt - I am running WM5 (a "hacked" version going around on the xda-developers forum) on my CDA II. It runs perfectly fine (except for a known hardware buttons issue).

I don't notice any delay in the start menu response. I do have persistent storage adn all my programs are either on the persistent storage or on my SD.

I did have an isue ones with the delay in the start menu response but that was when i had my storage almost full of programs... i've moved everything (that could move) to SD and its back to normal.

Hope this helps.

[weatheryoko]

So humayunl,
Would you recommend loading my programs (when I can) to a storage card vice persistent storage? My JasJar arrives today, so I'm curious. Thanks.

Justin

[Jason Lee]

So humayunl,
Would you recommend loading my programs (when I can) to a storage card vice persistent storage? My JasJar arrives today, so I'm curious. Thanks.

Justin

I wouldn't. I would load apps just like I normally do. If some app is huge and i don't want to commit that much internal storage to it i would probably install it to the SD card, like games and such. About everything else goes into main memory. If every thing you want to install on your device fits in to the interanl memory and you still have some space left then I wouldn't install anything to the storage card.

[whydidnt]

Well, my JASJAR just arrived. It's charging as speak. I couldn't resist and went through the original start up sequence and have a couple of first impressions to share:
It's not as huge as I thought it would be - still a little thick, but manageable. It's a bit heavier than I expected though.

The keyboard is very nice, big keys, probably the best (for me) I've ever encountered on a PPC or Palm device.

I like the looks and color of the device, probably not as stunning as the 02 device we saw reviewed earlier, but very professional looking.

We now need to solve the case of the disappearing memory. After a soft reset, I only have 30.99 of storage memory and 28.93 of program memory available. That means that that WM software and i-mate installed programs are eating ALMOST 100 MB of my 128 MB ROM!! :!: :!:
There is only 43.72 MB of storage ROM available to the user - does WM5 really take up 80+MB of space itself? - and what the heck does i-mate install that takes up almost 13 MB of RAM on top of that?

And WM, when loaded, is using over 30 MB of RAM, with only 28.93 MB available to Run programs. I don't understand why 16 MB of RAM is not available to start, when WM then goes ahead and loads another 19 MB of stuff on top of that to get running. :evil: It seems to me we are going to be screaming for 128 MB RAM solutions just as we were for WM2003SE, as WM5 is huge memory hog on it's own. I think those of us crying for 128 MB RAM are going to be proven right on this one - I actually have less RAM available on this after a soft reset than on my iPaq HX4700, and that's with almost 15 MB's of storage RAM used on the iPaq!!

I have to admit my excitement over this device is a little tempered after looking at the available memory after a clean reset. Typical MS though, with each new OS we are constantly reminded that it's time to upgrade our hardware. However, this time, I'm afraid the upgraded hardware may not even be enough.

I'll post more thoughts later on after I've had a chance to charge and play with it some.