Of Pocket PCs, cars, and Bluetooth

[ADBrown]

I want to be able to modify my car so that I can broadcast music to the stereo using my Axim and the Bluetooth A2DP stereo headphone profile. Has anyone else attempted anything like this? I've been looking for a suitable BT receiver on the cheap. This looks appealing:

http://joystores.com/product_info.php/products_id/1527

But I don't know anything about it. I'm also tempted by this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bluetooth-1-2-Stereo-Headset-3-5-Audio-Adaptor-A2DP-MSI_W0QQitemZ5232061512QQcategoryZ11682QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It would have the advantage of also providing a BT headset profile for speakerphone use. The downside is that it would have to be very strategically placed, to make it useful while avoiding ugly wires or inconvenient location. I'm more than open to other suggestions, though. I vaguely recall seeing a device which combined a headset profile and stereo receiver in a single rounded case, with a 3.5 mm jack for the audio out. That would be a lot better.

[SteveHoward999]

Nice idea, but I am not sure Bluetooth is the best option here.


I use the cheap and easy option .... my car stereo has a line-in jack, so I got a 3 feet long piece of cable with steroe jacks on either end. Just plug in PDA or iPod headphone socket, and the ptjher into the line-in jack.


You can also get a mini FM transmitter that plugs into the headphone socket. You should be able to find it anywhere they sell lots of iPod accessories.

[martin_ayton]

Nice idea, but I am not sure Bluetooth is the best option here.
FWIW I agree. Unless you are a true audiophile who also has an awesome in-car sound system (unlikely simply because of the limitations imposed by the car) then a FM re-transmitter is likely to be the easiest / cheapest / best(?) solution. Jason posted on one a few months back (see this thread (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=39552&highlight=digital++radio)) which had the advantage of having a digital tuner which would make tuning to your car radio a whole lot quicker and easier.

Mobilemail makes a good point in that thread about your local FM conditions: if the spectrum in your area is very crowded, this might not be such a good solution after all.

Bitequator said he bought one: Hey, bitequator, now you've had one of these things for a while, what do you think?

[Cybrid]

I think ADBrown's primary concern is "clean signal". I've listened to music through headphones and through a BT headset. BT sounds so much better....
If your car stereo had 5.1 Dolby surround and BT.....then a music file sent directly through BT would still be 5.1 Dolby.
Whereas sent through crappy PPC stereo out is still crappy stereo out.

[phs]

I have an FM transmitter plugged to my iPaq. Makes my head hurt. (I jump everytime I pass by tall buildings, hit my head on the moonroof.)

A line-in jack seems to be the best solution. Now if only I can find the line-in to my car stereo ...

[kosmos]

The FM transmission process introduces noise, there is a detectable loss of quality (thats a fact, it's an analog process). Go for the direct link via line in from the headphone socket (which is what I got with my Sony car system, onlya few models have a line in, sometimes the line in for the shuttle can be used ). I don't know the noise specs for the Bluetooth option but since that is digital, it should be much better than FM but I really dont know if its worth the hassle when a simple patch cord will do the job. I have a more hardy plug-socket fitted to the dash to patch in my 2210 via a coiled-type patch cord, and it works great: Plug'n'Play :)

Also I have tried two off-the-shelf fm xmitters: Sound Feeder Model SF250 and SF120, both were a waste off money! Although I do have a 2W home built FM xmitter that has a few km range, but thats for special occasions.

[DustyLBottoms]

I think ADBrown's primary concern is "clean signal". I've listened to music through headphones and through a BT headset. BT sounds so much better....
If your car stereo had 5.1 Dolby surround and BT.....then a music file sent directly through BT would still be 5.1 Dolby.
Whereas sent through crappy PPC stereo out is still crappy stereo out.

But you would have to have a 5.1 Dolby Audio file, which only a few record companies are doing with select artists (though the number of them is increasing) Otherwise it's a 5.1 "upmix" not a "true" 5.1 Dolby studio mix.

[Cybrid]

I think ADBrown's primary concern is "clean signal". I've listened to music through headphones and through a BT headset. BT sounds so much better....
If your car stereo had 5.1 Dolby surround and BT.....then a music file sent directly through BT would still be 5.1 Dolby.
Whereas sent through crappy PPC stereo out is still crappy stereo out.

But you would have to have a 5.1 Dolby Audio file, which only a few record companies are doing with select artists (though the number of them is increasing) Otherwise it's a 5.1 "upmix" not a "true" 5.1 Dolby studio mix.Uh. Yeah. Thanks.... :?: My example was mainly to demonstrate by example that.... Of the two ways to get audio out of a PocketPC (line out/fm transmitter and BT) BT give out much better output.
ADBrown is not alone in wishing for a BT car stereo. I know of many. Some are working towards a DIY with A PC in the trunk. Such is the need. Now how do we get the Manufacturers of these fine electronics to listen?

BTW They make BT adapters for IPOD's for this specific purpose but whats at the other end?

[Cybrid]

http://www.parrot.biz/products/index.php?id=rhythmnblue

[Sven Johannsen]

http://www.parrot.biz/products/index.php?id=rhythmnblue

Nothing there indicating that it does stereo (A2DP). The BT is to allow handsfree/headset connection to a phone.

I'm wondering where you get the idea (a few posts above) that A2DP is any more than just a dual channel audio broadcast. Your 'example' of Dolby 5.1 would imply that the source is broadcasting a digital data stream that can be processed by the receiver for more than just reconstructing the two channels and amplifying them. I don't know that you aren't right, I just never got the impression that A2DP was that capable.

I'm also not sure my experience agrees with BT being better than cabled headphones. That's especially true if you spend as much on stereo headphones/earbuds as you will on BT stereo gear. This is very subjective though.

For the OP, I'd take a look at some of the stuff on Bluetake's site. http://www.bluetake.com/products/BT460EX.htm if you are going to kludge, you might as well do it with good parts. ;)

[Cybrid]

http://www.parrot.biz/products/index.php?id=rhythmnblue

Nothing there indicating that it does stereo (A2DP). The BT is to allow handsfree/headset connection to a phone.

I'm wondering where you get the idea (a few posts above) that A2DP is any more than just a dual channel audio broadcast. Your 'example' of Dolby 5.1 would imply that the source is broadcasting a digital data stream that can be processed by the receiver for more than just reconstructing the two channels and amplifying them. I don't know that you aren't right, I just never got the impression that A2DP was that capable.

I'm also not sure my experience agrees with BT being better than cabled headphones. That's especially true if you spend as much on stereo headphones/earbuds as you will on BT stereo gear. This is very subjective though.

For the OP, I'd take a look at some of the stuff on Bluetake's site. http://www.bluetake.com/products/BT460EX.htm if you are going to kludge, you might as well do it with good parts. ;)That'll learn me not to post in a hurry. ;) I guess I didn't think a "BT car stereo" wouldn't support A2DP.....
I guess that would make too much sense..:rolleyes:

I remember seeing a headset/headphone combo on Ebay.....I guess it's hack-time.

And why does everyone niggle at my example?
The point was PPC's tend to have crappy stereo out. BT get's around that! ADBROWN mentioned using an Axim and having tried line out and FM.
Neither was satisfactory. The headphone jack being the problem....plus wiring a hassle.

Overall there are undoubtedly many ways to get superior sound in a car. The concern is how to do it from a PPC without hiss,crackle and pop...This part is an over exaggerated joke...Line out is decent...but could be improved upon.

[Sven Johannsen]

That'll learn me not to post in a hurry. ;) I guess I didn't think a "BT car stereo" wouldn't support A2DP.....
I guess that would make too much sense..:rolleyes:

I remember seeing a headset/headphone combo on Ebay.....I guess it's hack-time.

And why does everyone niggle at my example?
The point was PPC's tend to have crappy stereo out. BT get's around that! ADBROWN mentioned using an Axim and having tried line out and FM.
Neither was satisfactory. The headphone jack being the problem....plus wiring a hassle.

Overall there are undoubtedly many ways to get superior sound in a car. The concern is how to do it from a PPC without hiss,crackle and pop...This part is an over exaggerated joke...Line out is decent...but could be improved upon.

I just have looked at the Parrot stuff a lot and was surprised that they had a stereo thing. They make some interesting units. My favorite is the BT Handsfree unit that has a GPS in it. You can connect your phone and PPC with maps to it via BT and use both functions. Or if you have a PPCPE, you could do the same with the one device.

Not really niggling about your example, I just didn't think A2DP is designed with any super dynamic range (20 -20,000Hz) or with any capability beyond just broadcasting two channels of audio. Any wireless media is subject to more interference than a piece of shielded wire. How good the signal is at the headset jack is a different issue altogether, but I haven't seen anything that says that's not what is applied to the BT section. Wouldn't surprise me though if a $150 set of BT headphones don't sound better than the free earbuds that come with PPCs. Get some Sennheisers ;)

[Cybrid]

Not really niggling about your example, I just didn't think A2DP is designed with any super dynamic range (20 -20,000Hz) or with any capability beyond just broadcasting two channels of audio. Any wireless media is subject to more interference than a piece of shielded wire. How good the signal is at the headset jack is a different issue altogether, but I haven't seen anything that says that's not what is applied to the BT section. Wouldn't surprise me though if a $150 set of BT headphones don't sound better than the free earbuds that come with PPCs. Get some Sennheisers ;) Yeow! 200-700 dollar headphones? I can't believe it.... Humbling. Truly humbling. Wonder what these guys use for the playback device? I mean if some guy was walking around with these.....what's the player? Don't tell me its an ipod.

[Down8]

This may fall out-of-line with the reasoning in this thread, but there is an unmentioned possibility: cassette adapter.

This does go back to the quality of the stereo output of the PPC, but if you have good output, this is a simple solution. I use a cassette adapter for my XM radio, and it is so much better than the built-in FM tramsmitter on my SKYFi2. It's a simple endeavor to plug the adapter into my PPC, where, assuming I have a good bitrate music file, the sound is quite good.

Just an unmentioned option,
-bZj

[Sven Johannsen]

This may fall out-of-line with the reasoning in this thread, but there is an unmentioned possibility: cassette adapter.te music file, the sound is quite good.

Just an unmentioned option,
-bZj

And a decent suggestion for those with cassette decks. Seems most cars these days are coming with just radio, radio and CD, and radio, cd, cassette, in that order.

[Carlos]

It is mathematically impossible to transmit full-spectrum stereo sound via Bluetooth, unless the devices are doing compression/decompression. I've never seen anything about compression and BT headphones, so I have to assume they are simply chopping out part of the signal.

Anyway, BT stereo to your car system is quite silly. I mean, how long will your battery last if you are playing music with a constant BT stream going? Wouldn't you want to plug it into a car charger anyway? And if so, why not a line input too? That will give you far better quality than BT or an FM modulator can.

[Cybrid]

It is mathematically impossible to transmit full-spectrum stereo sound via Bluetooth, unless the devices are doing compression/decompression. I've never seen anything about compression and BT headphones, so I have to assume they are simply chopping out part of the signal.

Anyway, BT stereo to your car system is quite silly. I mean, how long will your battery last if you are playing music with a constant BT stream going? Wouldn't you want to plug it into a car charger anyway? And if so, why not a line input too? That will give you far better quality than BT or an FM modulator can.Except if the line out of your device has the Kellogg elves in it.

[brian.hillier]

Sometimes Pride is part of the reason for upgrades and fancy equipment. I myself am looking for a bluetooth option for my car mostly for the look-cool-factor. I am quite surprised that folks in a forum like this (large proportion of early adopters) are so shocked that someone may want to enable this option even if it may not sound as nice as a direct line in option.

If anyone out there has info on Bluetooth reception options I would be interested in hearing them. Ideally it would be a battteryless option or one that can be hardwired or even plug into the lighter outlet. I would be happy with a unit that plugs into the cassette deck / or line in / or with a direct in line FM modulator for bluetooth reception. For me the craving is to have no wires from my unit to the stereo.

In response to the original product queries, the joystore receiver only supports Bluetooth 1.1. Which my understanding is mono transmission not stereo. (If anyone has knowledge to the contrary please feel free to post) The second unit (the ebay unit from Asia) looks to be more advanced, but I cannot find any information on the charger it comes with. I also cannot verify that it can be charged in your vehicle - the package contents simple read 1 Universal Charger, 1 Adaptor Plug which I would presume is to convert for North America power but you know what they say about presumptions. Also since it has a 3.5mm audio jack you will still need a line in or cassette option to get that last mile to your speakers, which I would be fine with for my uses if I could plug the bluetooth adapter into my lighter so I don't have to charge it.

[Sven Johannsen]

If anyone out there has info on Bluetooth reception options I would be interested in hearing them. Ideally it would be a battteryless option or one that can be hardwired or even plug into the lighter outlet. I would be happy with a unit that plugs into the cassette deck / or line in / or with a direct in line FM modulator for bluetooth reception. For me the craving is to have no wires from my unit to the stereo.

Heck there are numbers of those. The iTech Clip S35 is one solution. It is a BT stereo reciever that has a stereo jack that you could connect to your line-in with the appropriate cable. It's rechargeable, but you could get a car charger for it. Doesn't wow the geek in me though. Still got a cable, still likely need a cord dangling from the cigarette lighter. To get it to work you have to turn it on, turn BT on the PPC on, connect them, maybe set the car radio to line-in. More cost and effort than just getting a cable (same one you need for the ClipS35 BTW), for less fidelity.

What would be cool is a car stereo that had a native BT receiver built in to connect to BT enabled personal media devices. Haven't seen any of the former, and at this point few of the latter. On the other hand there are some FM capable Portable Media players around, Neuros, my Samsung Yepp 910GS. Not super but better than the current kludge state of BT stereo.

I bet it changes, but I expect it to be expensive. Wouldn't it be great to have your cell phone BT headset capability integrated right into your car radio, as well as it supporting A2DP to play from your MP3 player, iPod or PPC.

[Cybrid]

Get some Sennheisers ;)
Sven, I guess now that you'd mentioned it, I recognized some names on the sales floors.
This leads to a funny story.
I was in "The Source" (It used to be Radio Shack Canada) and saw Sennheisers RS1110 wireless headphones ($129). This works on the 900Mhz? band...Anyway the demo seemed set up. Base plugged in, Headphones set up for listening...the works.
In my test, I discovered that they didn't have any thing running so it kept scanning and locked onto the only signal it could find. The girl in the bookstore accross the mall gallery using a cordless phone. :RLOL: :O I wish I'd had it on tape...A "hand talker" that one. :grin:
$129 and utterly unimpressive. I did buy a Koss set earlier $80...Headband broke. Off to get those RMA'ed.

[clbsvi]

I have not been able to get Bluetooth (BT) to work between two devices for which it should be optimum. Namely, a new HP iPAQ hx2495 and a new Toshiba Centrino laptop, M45-S269. I think the BT standard should be scrapped, or left for the use of those willing to put up with its problems, and in its place, substitute a variable power level (software slider-controlled) WiFi. Bandwidth is greater, up to 54MB with 80211.g and configuration is reliable, stable and ridiculously easy. If anybody wants to beat this drum with me, send me an eMail or message to me in this forum. All you BT lovers out there can set up your own club. I choose not to join nor to tolerate flawed wireless standards like BT, which is so costly in wasted time, frustration and lack of general usability. Otherwise. I love these PPC Thoughts forums and the vast amount of help I have gotten from you great guys and gals with better technical skills than me. BTW, I have a BS in Electrical Engineering and an MS in Aeronautical Systems, and BT still has me beaten.

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Very odd...I have the exact opposite experience. BT for me has been easy, painless, and reliable. WiFi on the other hand has been a PITA - non-automatic connection, connection drops, and a real power hog. Your idea of a variable power slider is neat, except that it seriously degrades connection stability from my experience.

One thing I see though is that you're using a iPaq 2495, which IIANM runs WM5.0, which in turn uses the Microsoft Bluetooth stack. In a word, that sucks. Most of the PDAs running WM2003SE use the Broadcomm stack which is far superior, and a lot easier to use.

[clbsvi]

You are pretty sharp and have been very helpful in this and earlier postings. Many thanks and much appreciation. I think I see a solution pathway now for my described problems.
s/ Lee Browning