Treo Running Windows Mobile

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000840053340/">http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000840053340/</a><br /><br /><i>"Dudes, we were skeptical, but now we’re convinced: roc a fella himself just emailed us a video of a Treo 670 running on Windows Mobile. Yeah, it’s a little blurry, but there’s no mistaking that this the real deal. Everything just got very interesting."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2005/20050805-wmtreo.jpg" /><br /><br />There is a video at the site that requires Quicktime. Very cool. 8) If this is a mockup or trickery of some sort, it is very well done. I think that this is more likely real though. No one wants PalmOS6, aka Cobalt and PalmOS5, aka Garnet, has been hacked up over the years to accomplish things it wasn't meant to do. Remember, OS5 was supposed to be an intermediate stepping stone from the old OS4 kernel to the new full 32bit ARM kernel. It is getting long in the tooth.<br /><br />Palm, Inc. is doing the right thing - rather than be religious about the operating system they are going platform agnostic and trying to deliver the best device to the user.

[Janak Parekh]

Linked from that thread is a HowardForums post with a high-res screenshot of part of the screen... http://howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=695760

If it's on Verizon and supports EV-DO, this may be my next Pocket PC. My contract should be up in a few months. 8)

Edit: This seems to be the definitive thread the guy is posting pics on: http://howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=695201&amp;page=1&amp;pp=15 -- there is a very blurry About pic on the third page, but he's planning to post more. Coolness. :D

--janak

[KTamas]

One word: Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.... *drolls*

[lapchinj]

...If it's on Verizon and supports EV-DO, this may be my next Pocket PC. My contract should be up in a few months. 8)...
Yeah a good friend of mine uses a Treo and it's awsome. If it is true then I'll be able to do exactly the same thing. My friend wanted to go to the PPC but couldn't leave the Treo and datebook and I wanted the Treo but couldn't leave the PPC world. Now that Backupbuddy has come to the PPC I wonder if and when DateBook will follow suit. When it does then I know a lot of people will jump ship and I'll finally buy a smartphone :mrgreen:

Jeff-

[Jason Lee]

Wow. this should shake things up a bit. hahah nice!
8O

[MS Mobiles]

If this treo has built-in Wi-Fi and display 320x320 pixels or more, then I like it!

do you know whether it has built-in Wi-Fi and what resolution is the display?

[surur]

http://surur.sytes.net/forum.jpg


Look at this secret screen capture of the future Pocketpcthoughts forum I've discovered in an open directory. It only available to subscribers. ;)

Surur

[Pocket PC Dubai]

check this picture also:

http://smartphonedubai.com/groupee_files/avatars/4/1/0/410105412/avatar.jpg

someone used this image here (http://smartphonedubai.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/261102341/m/407107351/r/823105412#823105412) on Smartphonedubai

[surur]

That one is is definitely a photoshop. The text looks all squeezed.

Surur

[Pocket PC Dubai]

yes I just noticed it is an old image also

[Fishie]

Yeah, its a QVGA screen squashed for a square screen, definitly a fake

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

If you want a good laugh, you folks should read the Engadget reader comments. Up to about comment #33, the video hadn't been released. Before then, you'll see a plethora of folks bashing "Windows fanbois" for putting the image through Photoshop. It's just as funny to read all the rationalization (with accompanied venom) as to why the image is actually fake.

[Tim Rapson]

Surer you crack me up.

I saw that PalmSource stock (the company that make the current OS for the Treo) is available at a special closeout price. They will pay anyone $2 a share to come to their warehouse and haul it away.

[ADBrown]

check this picture also:

http://smartphonedubai.com/groupee_files/avatars/4/1/0/410105412/avatar.jpg

someone used this image here (http://smartphonedubai.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/261102341/m/407107351/r/823105412#823105412) on Smartphonedubai

Yes, that's a fake. It was whipped up by someone I know as a lark--it was never intended to fool anyone, but apparently someone else either deliberately took it out of context, or accidently misunderstood the nature of the pic.

[bvkeen]

I almost kept the Treo 650 I had but took it back at the end of the 30 days (Cingular allows returns within 30 days). Excellent phone and the screen is almost as good as my x50v. If the 670 is as real as indications appear it is, I'll probably get one, and Finally have one device. I'd wait until there's at least a month of users' postings on it, though, just to ensure it's not buggy.

[ignar]

This news will definitely kill BenQ P50.

[saru83]

This news will definitely kill BenQ P50.

Its a pretty cool idea, BUT frankly speaking i cant c it as a P50 killer, both devices has their own tasts... there are still a lot of differences between them buddy... like someone like me would get the P50 instead :wink:

[treopalmchatter]

No one wants PalmOS6, aka Cobalt...

Really? Go reread the source's original posts. He states that a Cobalt model is also being readied.

If this rumor's true, it lends more credibility to that one as well. Just because Palm is going to offer a WM option, doesn't mean the Palm OS option is going away.

But then again, Ed never really seemed one to get caught up in the details when there was FUD to be spread.

[Craig Horlacher]

No one wants PalmOS6, aka Cobalt...

Really? Go reread the source's original posts. He states that a Cobalt model is also being readied.

If this rumor's true, it lends more credibility to that one as well. Just because Palm is going to offer a WM option, doesn't mean the Palm OS option is going away.

But then again, Ed never really seemed one to get caught up in the details when there was FUD to be spread.
I'm pretty sure the palm os is dead...no more development and no more devices using it.

A lot of people have 650's where I work and their reception is much weaker than that of a normal mobile phone. I don't think this will sweep the windows mobile phone industry but I'm usually wrong.

[michperu]

Yeah! Totally fake. 0X

[Darius Wey]

Look at this secret screen capture of the future Pocketpcthoughts forum I've discovered in an open directory. It only available to subscribers. ;)

Hmm, I don't know. Somehow I'm not quite convinced. ;)

[mangochutneyman]

No one wants PalmOS6, aka Cobalt...

Really? Go reread the source's original posts. He states that a Cobalt model is also being readied.

If this rumor's true, it lends more credibility to that one as well. Just because Palm is going to offer a WM option, doesn't mean the Palm OS option is going away.

But then again, Ed never really seemed one to get caught up in the details when there was FUD to be spread.
I'm pretty sure the palm os is dead...no more development and no more devices using it.

A lot of people have 650's where I work and their reception is much weaker than that of a normal mobile phone. I don't think this will sweep the windows mobile phone industry but I'm usually wrong.

Palmos Cobalt development is dead, or rather suspended. But PalmSource is still developing Palm Linux whcih is basically Cobalt API's over Linux Kernal. Also, Palm definitely will continue to release palmOS based devices in the future. Afterall they just resigned their lisencing agreement with PalmSource through 2009! Plus there are a host of smartphone venders like GSL/Oswin, Samsung, LG, Kyocera, Qtech etc that sell or are developing palmos devices. So no PalmOS is not dead...yet.

Anyway, I willing to bet Palm releases a Cobalt ver of the next gen Treo is before the WM version...

[Craig Horlacher]

Well, I guess I look like an idiot so I mine as well continue. I don't think it matters if the picture is doctored or not...I'm betting the thing will really come out with windows moble. Why would they not. I'm pretty sure palm source doesn't exist anymore (I thought you'd like that statment!) and if the os they're developing uses a unix kernal it's not palm os no matter what they may call it. I think they're no more likly to release a linux/unix based treo then a windows mobile treo. They'd have to be more stupid than I apparently am to release another treo with palm os on it. They're had enough problems with it trying to get wifi and bluetooth to work with the stupid things and I can say as a fact that the reception is worse then a normal phone with the same service provider based on what we've seen at work.

[mangochutneyman]

Well, I guess I look like an idiot so I mine as well continue. I don't think it matters if the picture is doctored or not...I'm betting the thing will really come out with windows moble. Why would they not. I'm pretty sure palm source doesn't exist anymore (I thought you'd like that statment!) and if the os they're developing uses a unix kernal it's not palm os no matter what they may call it. I think they're no more likly to release a linux/unix based treo then a windows mobile treo. They'd have to be more stupid than I apparently am to release another treo with palm os on it. They're had enough problems with it trying to get wifi and bluetooth to work with the stupid things and I can say as a fact that the reception is worse then a normal phone with the same service provider based on what we've seen at work.

HUH? FYI, PalmOS has gone through something like 4 different kernals in it's history. I doubt the average user would know or even care about this, but it never affected the perception or identity of the PalmOS. Thus your agruement is flawed. Palm OS Linux will be good for lisencees and hardware devs. However it's up to PalmSource whether they will be able to deliver it in time before their oblivion or obselescence, which ever comes first...

Also, the current Treo 650 is selling gangbusters fyi unless you've been living under a rock...or perhaps just hanging out around pptcs too much. ;) An updated next gen treo perhaps Cobalt based would sell very well. In fact if Palm actually did release a WM Treo, they might the might the best selling WM and PalmOS smartphones BOTH! 8O

[surur]

You guys are such optimisitc fools. WM is both better AND more popular.

If the WM Treo gets all the cool apps, is more stable and works better with exchange the users WILL decide for Palm which OS to continue and which one to discontinue. If 70% of their customers go for WM, will they keep supporting POS for the other 30%.

Just think. The WM users will actually be able to view PDF attachments natively! They will be able to get hotmail in their inbox. They will get a pile of brilliant games and emulators with Dirext X support. They will be able to use any WIFI SDIO card! On the Palm side.. what?

No matter what Palm's intentions are, if they release a WM Treo the writing will be on the wall for POS.

Surur

[MitchellO]

I would definately get one of these if it is true.

[adamz]

check this picture also:

http://smartphonedubai.com/groupee_files/avatars/4/1/0/410105412/avatar.jpg

someone used this image here (http://smartphonedubai.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/261102341/m/407107351/r/823105412#823105412) on Smartphonedubai

That screenshot was stolen from Pocketnow's Windows Mobile 5 preview. I'm glad I blurred out my phone numbers.

[MitchellO]

http://smartphonedubai.com/groupee/forums/a/ga/ul/507107351/inlineimg/Y/treo700_(Small).jpg

What about this fake pic. The guy who photoshopped it left the Treo 650s antenna shadow in :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Craig Horlacher]

Well, I guess I look like an idiot so I mine as well continue. I don't think it matters if the picture is doctored or not...I'm betting the thing will really come out with windows moble. Why would they not. I'm pretty sure palm source doesn't exist anymore (I thought you'd like that statment!) and if the os they're developing uses a unix kernal it's not palm os no matter what they may call it. I think they're no more likly to release a linux/unix based treo then a windows mobile treo. They'd have to be more stupid than I apparently am to release another treo with palm os on it. They're had enough problems with it trying to get wifi and bluetooth to work with the stupid things and I can say as a fact that the reception is worse then a normal phone with the same service provider based on what we've seen at work.

HUH? FYI, PalmOS has gone through something like 4 different kernals in it's history. I doubt the average user would know or even care about this, but it never affected the perception or identity of the PalmOS. Thus your agruement is flawed. Palm OS Linux will be good for lisencees and hardware devs. However it's up to PalmSource whether they will be able to deliver it in time before their oblivion or obselescence, which ever comes first...

Also, the current Treo 650 is selling gangbusters fyi unless you've been living under a rock...or perhaps just hanging out around pptcs too much. ;) An updated next gen treo perhaps Cobalt based would sell very well. In fact if Palm actually did release a WM Treo, they might the might the best selling WM and PalmOS smartphones BOTH! 8O

As I mentioned, we've got 650's at work. I know they're all over the place.

If you do some research I think you'll find they've never released a major overhall of their kernal/operating system. They were going to at one point but didn't because of backwards compatibility and/or developer support. A linux kernal would be awesome but there are very few apps that would work well at 320x320 for linux....sure ones for the zaurus and a few other linux based pda's but not many. If they loose their apps, they're done. There is so much good software out there for the pocket pc it would be a tough market for anyone to get into. Palm is probably the only one with a chance (to get back in).

Oh well, thanks for the discussion. I'm leaving today for vacation in Canada! Maybe I'll bump into some of you (I know a number of you are from Canada.)

[Ed Hansberry]

HUH? FYI, PalmOS has gone through something like 4 different kernals in it's history. I doubt the average user would know or even care about this, but it never affected the perception or identity of the PalmOS.
I thought they just went through 2. The Kadak kernel that is in OS 1-4 and the new ARM kernel that has the Kadak emulator in it (PACE). I know the Kadak kernel was tweaked with each version, but tweaking isn't the same thing as a wholly different kernel. It is like XP. That is the NT kernel that dates back to 1993 when NT 3.1 shipped. Sure, it has been tweaked like crazy, but it is fundamentally the same kernel design.

[Legendz]

When will these fake PPC Treo's die down -_-'.

[surur]

When will these fake PPC Treo's die down -_-'.

The fake pictures died out ages ago. Its real all the way now. BTW, can you use a WIFI card on your treo 650 yet?

Surur

[surur]

The Path of Palm Apologists

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/5072/palmdenial8lz.gif

Surur

Apologies to GeekCulture (http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/693.html)

[Janak Parekh]

The Path of Palm Apologists
You have way too much time on your hands. :lol:

--janak

[Duncan]

If Palm want the Treo to be a real success outside of America (where 95% of the market currently lies) the OS, I woud respectfully submit, is of secondary importance. No built-in WiFi means they will remain a niche success in the 7th biggest mobile market (just ahead of China). Include WiFi - and WM (which will suck in those who have already bought WM smartphones, incuding the very successful HTC PPC range) and Palm could own the worldwide smartphone market in time.

[treopalmchatter]

The Path of Palm Apologists
You have way too much time on your hands. :lol:

--janak

Yea, and it's appropriate he's using cartoon people here as it's the fantasy he's built up in his mind. Since when does releasing a WM Treo mean Palm is "switching"?

What will the cartoon look like when a Cobalt Treo is released as well?

[surur]

The Path of Palm Apologists
You have way too much time on your hands. :lol:

--janak

It did take a while, but its oh so worth it :D

Surur

[ikesler]

Take a look at the photos from the first page of this thread........ the ones over at HowardsForums........ those seem pretty real to me! :D

[Janak Parekh]

Since when does releasing a WM Treo mean Palm is "switching"?
Maybe not to you, but to legions of Palm users, it's a day they imagined would never, ever come. I don't think anyone here thinks they'll abandon Palm OS (even Garnet) completely, but it's still a sea change.

What will the cartoon look like when a Cobalt Treo is released as well?
There probably won't a cartoon. We may post on it if and when Palm does announce one, but it's of less interest as of the moment. It doesn't diminish the fact that Palm would release a device with WM. (To complete the metaphor with the Joy of Tech cartoon, Apple is not ceasing the sale of Power PC units right away; they're introducing Intel into the portfolio.)

--janak

[treopalmchatter]

Since when does releasing a WM Treo mean Palm is "switching"?
Maybe not to you, but to legions of Palm users, it's a day they imagined would never, ever come. I don't think anyone here thinks they'll abandon Palm OS (even Garnet) completely, but it's still a sea change.

What will the cartoon look like when a Cobalt Treo is released as well?
There probably won't a cartoon. We may post on it if and when Palm does announce one, but it's of less interest as of the moment. It doesn't diminish the fact that Palm would release a device with WM. (To complete the metaphor with the Joy of Tech cartoon, Apple is not ceasing the sale of Power PC units right away; they're introducing Intel into the portfolio.)

--janak

I guess if you want to spin it as vindication of some sort, then go ahead. This Palm user could care less. Even though I wouldn't use it, I think they should release a Symbian Treo as well.

Oh, and you'll post on a Cobalt Treo. Ed Hansberry will not even use one and come out with a post entitled "New Cobalt Treo is DOA".

Prediction: Unless, WM offers: 1) better one handed operation and 2) a totally new inbox/email experience, the WM will not outsell the Palm offering (Cobalt or Garnet).

In fact, this will mark the first time an apples to apples comparison can truly be done to determine which OS buyers prefer. Be careful with your bluster WM user....

[Ed Hansberry]

Prediction: Unless, WM offers: 1) better one handed operation and 2) a totally new inbox/email experience, the WM will not outsell the Palm offering (Cobalt or Garnet).

In fact, this will mark the first time an apples to apples comparison can truly be done to determine which OS buyers prefer. Be careful with your bluster WM user....
So, it is your contention that the reason Windows Mobile is currently outselling PalmOS devices is the hardware from WM OEMs is superior, because you just claimed that all things being equal, PalmOS is superior in the consumer's mind to WM.

[treopalmchatter]

Prediction: Unless, WM offers: 1) better one handed operation and 2) a totally new inbox/email experience, the WM will not outsell the Palm offering (Cobalt or Garnet).

In fact, this will mark the first time an apples to apples comparison can truly be done to determine which OS buyers prefer. Be careful with your bluster WM user....
So, it is your contention that the reason Windows Mobile is currently outselling PalmOS devices is the hardware from WM OEMs is superior, because you just claimed that all things being equal, PalmOS is superior in the consumer's mind to WM.


WM is not outselling Palm OS in smart phones (and I think it's virtually a dead heat for the dinosaur known as the PDA). Last time I checked, the Treo is a smart phone.

[surur]

treopalmchatter, so young, so uninformed.

WM smartphones = POS smartphones sales.

Add WM PDAPhone sales, and WM sells possibly twice as much phone enabled devices as POS.

You've been listening to Kirvin and Sammy too much.

Surur

[treopalmchatter]

treopalmchatter, so young, so uninformed.

Surur

The irony that you're the one saying this Surer... :roll:

[Ed Hansberry]

WM is not outselling Palm OS in smart phones (and I think it's virtually a dead heat for the dinosaur known as the PDA). Last time I checked, the Treo is a smart phone.

Windows Mobile is leading Palm in sales, period. If you want to slice it up in a particular way to suite your needs based on assumptions on your part to get a particular position, then do whatever you need to do to sleep better at night.

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2005/20050806-wmkickingposinsmartphonesales.gif

http://www.canalys.com/pr/2005/r2005071.htm

[treopalmchatter]

Windows Mobile is leading Palm in sales, period. If you want to slice it up in a particular way to suite your needs based on assumptions on your part to get a particular position, then do whatever you need to do to sleep better at night.

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2005/20050806-wmkickingposinsmartphonesales.gif

http://www.canalys.com/pr/2005/r2005071.htm

Again, the category states: Handhelds, wireless handhelds, and smart phones. And even that category looks so close as to be neglible.

The treo is one of the most wildly successful smart phones or mobile device products in the market (and I'm sure accounts for the overwhelmingly majority of Palm's sales in the above category).

It's hilarious that you're convinced that all these users are only interested in the hardware and that the OS has nothing to do with it. If that's what YOU need to tell yourself to sleep at night, then so be it.

[Duncan]

The treo is one of the most wildly successful smart phones or mobile device products in the market (and I'm sure accounts for the overwhelmingly majority of Palm's sales in the above category).

In North America - in the EMEA (Europe, Middle East and Africa) and Asian markets (either of which dwarfs the current N American market on its own) the Treo is a failure. Which is why MS (who are doing well and seeing growth in both PDA phone and smartphone sales) are winning worldwide - in most places the Treo isn't even competition (Nokia and Symbian are)

It's hilarious that you're convinced that all these users are only interested in the hardware and that the OS has nothing to do with it. If that's what YOU need to tell yourself to sleep at night, then so be it.

Users are interested in two things: 1) what the hardware does and 2) what the built-in features are. They couldn't give a damn what OS provides those features. If you think they do - then you are kidding yourself.

[surur]

Ah treopalmchatter, you talk a lot, but you do not appear to be saying anything. You will soon run of when you find your position impossible to defend. I thank you daring to come along and provide some entertainment however.

How about showing some numbers to back your assertions?

If you want WIFI on the POS Treo:
http://www.expansys.com/i/b/b120505.jpg

If you want it on your imate jam:
http://www.eastgear.com/shop/images/PDA-WiFi-SD_400.jpg

I wonder which one I will choose.......

Dont go yet Treopalmchatter... dont goooo....

Surur

[treopalmchatter]

The treo is one of the most wildly successful smart phones or mobile device products in the market (and I'm sure accounts for the overwhelmingly majority of Palm's sales in the above category).

In North America - in the EMEA (Europe, Middle East and Africa) and Asian markets (either of which dwarfs the current N American market on its own) the Treo is a failure. Which is why MS (who are doing well and seeing growth in both PDA phone and smartphone sales) are winning worldwide - in most places the Treo isn't even competition (Nokia and Symbian are)

It's hilarious that you're convinced that all these users are only interested in the hardware and that the OS has nothing to do with it. If that's what YOU need to tell yourself to sleep at night, then so be it.

Users are interested in two things: 1) what the hardware does and 2) what the built-in features are. They couldn't give a damn what OS provides those features. If you think they do - then you are kidding yourself.

Ah yes, our "international friend" always has to weigh in with this same diatribe. Right on schedule, you come with one of the most classic quotes ever:

They don't care about the OS??? So they don't care if it's maybe, easier to use (especially one handed), doesn't crash, is more efficient with the battery, has a better working email application, etc? Many to most consumers may not know it's the OS, but they know what they like (this has been my point all along). They like the Treo, alot. To say the OS doesn't factor in this is, well...mind boggling or illustrative of one of the most serious head in the sand mindsets I've seen on this topic.


Wow, still in shock....are you going to tell me next that the world is flat too? Do you just say whatever pops into your head?

[treopalmchatter]

Ah treopalmchatter, you talk a lot, but you do not appear to be saying anything. You will soon run of when you find your position impossible to defend. I thank you daring to come along and provide some entertainment however.

How about showing some numbers to back your assertions?

If you want WIFI on the POS Treo:
http://www.expansys.com/i/b/b120505.jpg

If you want it on your imate jam:
http://www.eastgear.com/shop/images/PDA-WiFi-SD_400.jpg

I wonder which one I will choose.......

Dont go yet Treopalmchatter... dont goooo....

Surur

And you do? I haven't seen any numbers that disprove what I'm saying. It's never really been able to be proven, until now (assuming the WM Treo gets released). More on that in a minute.

Yes, it's all about WiFi and only about Wifi isn't it? Some of us, particularly those of us that have real jobs, rely on other things like email, and a phone with a battery that will last throughout the day (the Blackberry platform outsells both POS and WM and no one ever complains that it isn't mass marketed with WiFi). It sounds like that's not an issue though in the mailroom where you can play with your WiFi PPC to your heart's content. Oh, and a news flash, Palm OS does WiFi natively or with an SD card. Palm and the carriers disable it in the Treo. The WM Treo may not allow for it either.

I made a prediction that the Palm OS Treo (Garnet or Cobalt) will outsell the WM Treo. It's the first and only true test study we've seen as to what actual users prefer. There will now finally be no excuses for either camp (assuming both come with identical hardware).

Are you staking your claim right now that the WM version will outsell the Palm version? I don't care if you feel that way, I just want to know now. Let's revisit the topic in a year. I'm marking my calendar.

[Duncan]

Ah yes, our "international friend" always has to weigh in with this same diatribe. Right on schedule, you come with one of the most classic quotes ever:

Er... what...?! :? You made a point - I corrected it (no diatribe there). If I'm wrong you can always prove it or contradict it. As it is your response is... well, weird...!

They don't care about the OS???

No. They don't. Or - to put it another way - if they do tehn they rae choosing the WM OS over and above the Palm OS in smartphones and PDA phones. Though they don't know and don't care which OS is providing those features. In fact - the truth is they go for Symbian based smartphones first and foremost - they don't know or care who provides the OS on those either.

Wow, still in shock....are you going to tell me next that the world is flat too? Do you just say whatever pops into your head?

I say what the facts support. I'm not the flatworlder here...

[surur]

I wont risk a prediction on Palm, they are a rather incompetent company.

I will however predict that WM smartphones will outsell the Treo in one year's time, and that WM vs POS marketshare will be &lt;25 percent in one year's time.

I rather now wait one year to prove you wrong, so make some more statements so I can show your understanding of the current situation wrong e.g. which device can view PDF's better?

Surur

[treopalmchatter]

I wont risk a prediction on Palm, they are a rather incompetent company.

I will however predict that WM smartphones will outsell the Treo in one year's time, and that WM vs POS marketshare will be &lt;25 percent in one year's time.

I rather now wait one year to prove you wrong, so make some more statements so I can show your understanding of the current situation wrong e.g. which device can view PDF's better?

Surur

What are you afraid of if they're so "incompentent"? Come on and put your money where your big mouth is:

If there's a WM Treo with the same hardware, sold by the same carriers as that of the POS Treo, will the WM version outsell the Palm version during a one year time period after both are released and available?

It's not a hard question....awaiting your answer.

[Ed Hansberry]

Again, the category states: Handhelds, wireless handhelds, and smart phones. And even that category looks so close as to be neglible.
1.93 million vs 1.16 million is "so close as to be neglible." A 66%+ plus lead is "so close as to be neglible." :rotfl:

Thanks for the laughs treopalmchatter. I thought you were being serious. Now I see it was just a hysterical parody on a most fanatical palm zealot. :rotfl: Great act! :way to go:

[surur]

You are forgetting Palm will be competing against itself. Maybe they are only planning to sell WM5 through business channels. As I've said, I do not trust Palm to do this right. They haven't done anything right for such a long time, why should they do this right now.

Surur

[treopalmchatter]

Again, the category states: Handhelds, wireless handhelds, and smart phones. And even that category looks so close as to be neglible.
1.93 million vs 1.16 million is "so close as to be neglible." A 66%+ plus lead is "so close as to be neglible." :rotfl:

Thanks for the laughs treopalmblather. I thought you were being serious. Now I see it was just a hysterical parody on a most fanatical palm zealot. :rotfl: Great act! :way to go:

You can try to make light of it (of course if we want real fanboy comedy, we can review pretty much all of your posts over the last few years. Even most of the zealots around here quit taking you seriously a long time ago).

But let's review...800,000 units roughly (and AGAIN we're not even talking exclusively about smart phones here, but you continue to ignore that). By contrast, Symbian's selling over 5.5 million more units. The entire market according to this report is over 12 million units and you think 800,000 is some ENORMOUS lead? The best part is that this is only one quarter. It's not like this is some number that's been in place for 2 or more years. I know you want it to be true, but....

Awesome by the way when Ed Hansberry calls anyone else a "zealot".... :lol:

[treopalmchatter]

You are forgetting Palm will be competing against itself.
Surur


Huh??? I hope to god you're aware of the fact that the OS and hardware are two separate companies.

[surur]

I understand a pile of people like you would rather burn their treo's than buy a WM Treo. To preserve the market of POS zealots Palm would find it difficult to promote the WM device very well. They may turn of more POS Treo buyers than generate WM Treo sales.

Palm is very vulnerable in this uncommitted state.

Surur

[treopalmchatter]

I understand a pile of people like you would rather burn their treo's than buy a WM Treo. To preserve the market of POS zealots Palm would find it difficult to promote the WM device very well. They may turn of more POS Treo buyers than generate WM Treo sales.

Palm is very vulnerable in this uncommitted state.

Surur

Wow, that's some conspiracy theory. Why the hell would they even sell the WM version then? If it's so much better suited to the Treo, won't people buy it? Let me be the first to say it: Chicken....

As pathetic as it would be, I still think you didn't even know Palm and Palm Source are two separate companies, but I'm sure you'll never admit it.

[surur]

My god, is there anyone owning a PDA who does not know the Palm/Palmone/palmsource/Palm convoluted history?

Can you tell me which forums you normally hang out, so I can see if you are as stupid there too? Ive googled you screen name, but nothing came up.

Surur

[treopalmchatter]

My god, is there anyone owning a PDA who does not know the Palm/Palmone/palmsource/Palm convoluted history?

Can you tell me which forums you normally hang out, so I can see if you are as stupid there too? Ive googled you screen name, but nothing came up.

Surur

Yea, that's what I thought too, but then there are your posts....

[Janak Parekh]

Okay, this thread is devolving into personal insults. Everyone, please stop, else we'll have to lock this.

Thanks.

:nonono:

--janak

[QYV]

If there's a WM Treo with the same hardware, sold by the same carriers as that of the POS Treo, will the WM version outsell the Palm version during a one year time period after both are released and available?

This is simple - yes, the PalmOS version will outsell the Windows Mobile version (if such a thing does exist). The reason? Well, let's look at the market for a minute:

The number of cellular-enabled Windows Mobile models is quite substantial. Just in the QWERTY-keyboard area alone you have the Audiovox 6600 (GSM and CDMA), the Samsung i730 (CDMA), the HP hw6500 (GSM), the HTC Universal (GSM for sure; maybe CDMA) and, if the rumors are true, the Wizard/Apache (GSM/CDMA). Add in the Windows Mobile Smartphone category and you've got the Motorola Q as well.

In the PalmOS category, what is there besides the Treo that's come out in the last year, or is rumored to come out soon? I freely admit I may have missed a model or two, but really, if you want a PalmOS cellular handheld, your only choice is the Treo. So, everyone who loves the PalmOS will buy a Treo, and everyone who loves the Windows Mobile OS will buy one of four or five different devices - meaning the PalmOS Treo will almost certainly beat the WM Treo.

The problem, then, is that while your prediction may be correct, it actually proves nothing about the PalmOS because the comparison won't be apples to apples, as you state.

FWIW, I think it's entirely possible the WM Treo will outsell all the other WM PPC Phone Edition form factors (no way it's beating the Q, though). But I'd much rather have the Wizard, myself. :mrgreen:

[felixdd]

The way I see it...PalmOne and PalmSource have both dug themselves in a hole because of the split.

First of all, PalmOne's stubbornness in accepting Cobalt has now pushed PalmSource to develop for Linux. Since they're building an OS from the ground up, I expect them to be out of the loop for at least a year -- and that's an optimistic figure.

This means PalmOne is going to have to come out with devices for at least a year without any sort of update on the operating system. I think everyone can agree that Garnet has pretty much hit its shelf-life. It's had a good run, but it's too old to be competitive in today's world. Its stability is nothing like the older iterations of PalmOS.

PalmOne sales are going to go down because of this, which means PalmOne must do one of three things:

1) Ditch PalmOS and sell devices running alternate OSes. This means either they jump ship to WM, or go Symbian. Either way, part of the identity of Palm is its OS. Palm Zen is simplicity and battery life. In terms of battery life, everyone's on equal ground. If they lose "simplicity", they will lose out in sales. Furthermore, if the major licensee of PalmSoure abandons them, then PalmSource will stagnate and collapse before PalmLinux gets to see the light of day. PalmSource will die, and PalmOne will have to play with the terms set by HP, Dell, etc. Since they have many more years of experience over Palm in the WM world...they will have a tough time.

2) Keep (hacking) Garnet. Again, they will just lose more market ground this way (albeit...maybe a bit slower). PalmSource may survive trhough the drought...but ti's unlikely.

3) Go Cobalt. The biggest issue here is that PalmSource already said they are abandoning Cobalt, so licensees like PalmOne may not receive enough help to implement the OS in a quality fashion. It's a smaller problem than (1) or (2), however.

So Palm has managed to dig itself in a nearly-no-win situation. At worst, both PalmOne and PalmSource collapse. At best, they won't lose.

[bnycastro]

&lt;rant>So much intesity... so much passion... Pity we are only discussing PPCs and Palms and not world hunger or some lame topic like world peace. &lt;/rant>
--
IMO most people get what they want not based on the OS. But based on the Hardware and Aesthetics. The people who care about the OS are people like us who go to online/offline communities about the OS.
--
I also think it's good news (even if this device doesn't see the light of day) it still generated hype over palm. I hope palm doesn't go away. I think competition is better for us the consumers :wink:

[alabij]

Look! Guys! This is all a hoax. The prototype number was artificially scanned. Has it occured to anyone that if this device is real (meanning the prototype number is real) then we would have heard Palm or whomever filing a lawsuit for violating an NDA.

I'm just dissapointed at how all of you have fallen for this.

Sweet dreams guys. Sweet dreams

[alabij]

http://smartphonedubai.com/groupee/forums/a/ga/ul/507107351/inlineimg/Y/treo700_(Small).jpg

What about this fake pic. The guy who photoshopped it left the Treo 650s antenna shadow in :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Geee.. I really envy these Photoshop pros. It's time I learn this app. Photoshop is amazing

[ADBrown]

It's hilarious that you're convinced that all these users are only interested in the hardware and that the OS has nothing to do with it. If that's what YOU need to tell yourself to sleep at night, then so be it.

I would think that YOU would be the one making the argument that features are all that matter. Because if the OS matters, then there's the inescapable fact that Windows is now outselling Palm by an almost 2 to 1 ratio. By your reasoning, customers obviously prefer Windows. For my money, I certainly couldn't care less about the OS as long as it does all the things I want it to simply and effectively. That's why I originally moved from my Palm m505 to a Dell Axim X5: because Palm couldn't do WiFi, CompactFlash, web browsing, multitasking, and a dozen other things. Some of those things have improved, but a bunch haven't, which is why of the dozen plus PalmOS devices I've had in the last few years, none have completely replaced my collection of PocketPCs.

So they don't care if it's maybe, easier to use (especially one handed), doesn't crash, is more efficient with the battery, has a better working email application, etc?

One handed navigation is being addressed in WM5. As for the myth about Palm not crashing, ask some Treo users about that. Palm has been fixing their problems, certainly, but the T5 waited months in a bug-riddled state, some Treo users are still waiting, and the LifeDrive will probably be months more before it's patched to a reasonable level of stability. Even if you can argue that PalmOS is "more stable" in an ideal state, the hacks that Palm Inc. has introduced are killing the Zen.

PalmOS is certainly no more efficient with battery life. In fact, most recent Palms run for shorter periods than PocketPCs with faster screens and more wireless options. The Dell Axim X50 520 MHz model runs as long with Bluetooth and WiFi on as the 416 MHz Palm T5 does with just Bluetooth. Again, the fault is more Palm than PalmOS, and they've shown improvement in the Tungsten E2, but it's still the cold hard facts.

(the Blackberry platform outsells both POS and WM and no one ever complains that it isn't mass marketed with WiFi).

Not even close. Palm alone outsells RIM, and compared to both WM and Palm, RIM is a distant third place. And actually, there ARE BlackBerry models with WiFi. If battery life were the only consideration, all Treos would have black and white screens, 2 MB RAM, and be running Palm OS 3.0.

Features matter.

[Jeff Song]

I understand a pile of people like you would rather burn their treo's than buy a WM Treo. To preserve the market of POS zealots Palm would find it difficult to promote the WM device very well. They may turn of more POS Treo buyers than generate WM Treo sales.

Palm is very vulnerable in this uncommitted state.

Surur

Wow, that's some conspiracy theory. Why the h-ll would they even sell the WM version then? If it's so much better suited to the Treo, won't people buy it? Let me be the first to say it: Chicken....

As pathetic as it would be, I still think you didn't even know Palm and Palm Source are two separate companies, but I'm sure you'll never admit it.

Just to weigh in on this topic....

I own a Treo 650 right now, and after 6 months of using it, I'm dying for the pocket pc OS again. I've gone through roughly 10 devices, a mix of windows mobile and palm. Palm just doesn't cut it for me. Its the same design as it was when it was first released. The built in launcher has never been updated, and there isn't something as powerful as the customizable today screen on pocket pcs.

Also, look at how much windows mobile has been catching on lately. People love the treo because it has the perfect form factor - and to many people, a good form factor is paramount. I personally love the design, hate the OS. I thought I could live with it, but the only reason I switched from Pocket PC to the treo was because of the superior design of the treos. But now that the windows mobile version seems to be around the corner, and the fact that there are a plethora of other windows mobile devices, I'll be happy to get back to pocket pc.

BTW, lets count the companies that currently have Palm OS based products out over here in the US.

Palm
....and Samsung....kind of.

Windows Mobile:
HP
Moto
Samsung
Audiovox

And thats just naming the companies that have released devices that are cellular capable. If Palm OS was all its cracked up to be, we'd see maaannnnyyyy more devices released that use this OS. Its completely outdated.

[sub_tex]

Sure didn't take long for this thread to derail into the "who sales most" PPC vs Palm nonsense. :roll:

Let's just look at this for what it is: GOOD NEWS.

The Treo is THE smartphone to beat. There are tons of cool PPC phones out there, but they really cater to the PDA crowd, not the phone crowd.

I see Treos everywhere I go. 600s, 650s, all carriers.

I've seen maybe 3 other PPC phones out and about.

People like the Treo not just for the form factor, but the excellent integration of apps and the 1 handed operation.

I assume Palm will add these great things to the PPC version too. It's really a must have feature on a phone to NEVEr have to take out your stylus. The Treos do this very well.

I can't wait to see the PPC version for this reason as well.

I'd be even happier with a Symbian version!

[DaleReeck]

This Treo 670 looks interesting, but has the same fault (for me anyways) that the new HP phones have - a square screen. That limits their compatibility with some Windows Mobile apps, especially games. Plus, if the screen is also high rez, you may have even more compatibilty problems. For instance, will QVGA apps "stretch" like they do now on 640x480 VGA screens?

[jickbahtech]

Actually I think I would like a 320x320 screen. The main thing keeping me from an HP6500 is the 240x240 screen. In 320x320 standard QVGA apps should be fine. just means you might get some "letterboxing" going on. In 240x240, either you loose resolution to fit everything on screen, you scroll, or the app just breaks (like the HP12c calculator program by Lygea).
I think I like the idea of HTC based treo hardware running WM5. If this helps Palm stay competitive while we wait for Palm/Linux to come out, so much the better.

[surur]

Its almost certainly 240x240, which is a major turn-off. On the other hand, it will be joining the HP 6515, which means more software will be customized for the low-res square screen.

Surur

[cgavula]

The Treo 650 screen is 320 by 320. There's no reson to believe the possible 670 would be only 240 by 240.

--Chris

[saru83]

The Treo 650 screen is 320 by 320. There's no reson to believe the possible 670 would be only 240 by 240.

--Chris
Agreed, coz basically if it turns out to be 240*240 then palm is just going nuts!!

[surur]

WM does not do 320x320. Period.

Surur

[Ed Hansberry]

WM does not do 320x320. Period.
AFAIK, WM5 (Pocket PC) does 320×240, 640×480, 240×240 &amp; 480×480. the non-square will rotate too.

[captgoodhope]

We'll take the 480x480, thanks very much.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

I'm getting a good laugh from the latest round of comments on the Engadget thread (http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000050053387/) that Ed just posted on today. These latest pictures look pretty convincing, but there are still people adamantly denying its authenticity. The comments include one person claiming it's a "case swap", another saying it's a "windows shell" running over POS, and another claiming this is just a Photoshop cut-and-paste job.

Great stuff!!

[MitchellO]

Hey, does it have a 240x240 or 320x320 (or even 480x480) screen?

[stevelam]

Hey, does it have a 240x240 or 320x320 (or even 480x480) screen?

Dont get your hopes up for a 480x480.

I'm so annoyed I have been away recently (with out internet) and I have almost mist this great thread, how many people can get insulted over one topic 8)

[Darius Wey]

Hey, does it have a 240x240 or 320x320 (or even 480x480) screen?

Based on the images we've seen so far, it's more than likely going to be a 240x240 screen.

[MitchellO]

:( Thats a shame. Thats a bit of a step backwards for Palm.

[Jonathan1]

Discuss this story [many replies]

:rotfl: That's great.

[Jonathan1]

:( Thats a shame. Thats a bit of a step backwards for Palm.

Only if they are walking backwards.

[marcol]

WM does not do 320x320. Period.
AFAIK, WM5 (Pocket PC) does 320×240, 640×480, 240×240 &amp; 480×480. the non-square will rotate too.

Well, Palm, if you're reading to this and would like me to swap my 650 for a 670 you're going to have to go for the 480x480 or I'll be looking elsewhere. No way I'm going for >40% fewer pixels!

[marcol]

Another thought. In those pics the task bar and system tray take up way too much of the screen for my liking. I've never used a VGA PPC so I hope you'll excuse the neophyte question: are the task bar and system tray reduced in size proportionally on a VGA screen? So could we expect that on a 480x480 screen they'd occupy half the vertical space they'd occupy on a 240x240?

[surur]

No, it would look exactly the same, which is a pity, and explains the popularity of TrueVGA solutions.

Surur

[marcol]

No, it would look exactly the same, which is a pity, and explains the popularity of TrueVGA solutions.

Thanks for the reply. I suppose it might explain why there are so few square-screened PPCs too. Oh well, I guess that Wizard is looking even more attractive now!