Microdrives?

[maikii]

I had a 4GB Hitachi Microdrive in my IPAQ 2210 PPC. It was one of those taken from a Creative Muvo 4GB MP3 player, back when that was possible, and purchasing these drives separately cost much more.

It worked fine. I didn't notice any slowdown in speed, compared to the 512 MB CF card I had in that slot previously. Everything seemed to work the same as before.

But now the Microdrive has suddenly died. It doesn't work in the PPC, also doesn't work on desktop (with card reader). No drive shows up at all with it inserted.

I'm wondering--is that a common occurence with these microdrives, that they suddenly don't work? What is the longest period of time people have used them, without problems?

I'm wondering whether to fill that slot with another microdrive (I see you can purchase them separately now for about $180 http://www.pcnation.com/web/details.asp?affid=303&item=F26813,
or if they frequently go bad like that, it might be better just to get a large CF flash memory card. I think 1 GB CF cards now go for around $70, 2 GB for $120 or so, and they even have 4GB CF memory cards for about $250. http://www.zmaxtech.com/itemdesc.asp?CartId=8116555WVII-EVEREST-E807&ic=KTCF4GBS

The microdrive is still a more cost-effective way to get 4 GB, mine seemed to work fine, until it suddenly died. I'm wondering if that is a common occurrence, or it was a fluke with mine.

(I've had SD cards go bad before, so perhaps flash memory isn't so safe either. They are so thin though, CF is probably more durable.)

[Jason Dunn]

I bought an IBM Microdrive back in the day, and it lasted 13 months - meaning that I couldn't get it replaced under warranty because it was one month over the 12 month warranty. That was the first and last microdrive that I bought - I just don't believe they're very durable when used in a Pocket PC. They're more protected when they're inside a Zen Micro, etc.

[htmanning]

I have been unable to get a microdrive to last more than about 8 months. They just aren't too hearty. I much prefer getting an SD card (CF if I "HAVE TO"). But, sadly I've even had bad experiences with these other media types so I always have multiple backups.


-----------------
Tom
PDA Blast! (http://www.pdablast.com)

[maikii]

I have been unable to get a microdrive to last more than about 8 months. They just aren't too hearty. I much prefer getting an SD card (CF if I "HAVE TO"). But, sadly I've even had bad experiences with these other media types so I always have multiple backups.


-----------------
Tom
PDA Blast! (http://www.pdablast.com)

Looks like I probably won't get another microdrive, perhaps a 2GB CF card.

Why do you prefer SD? Well, of course many PDAs today (and fewer cameras, perhaps no phones) take CF, but if you have one that does, like my 2210, CF is a better choice. It comes in larger memory sizes at a lower price. Besides that, I think it is more durable. I have had more than one SD card go bad. And the SD slot on the 2210, unlike most SD slots, such as those in digital cameras, has no cover! Since they are spring loaded, the card touches something and pops out! I have also lost more than one SD card from my 2210!

[Menneisyys]

Since they are spring loaded, the card touches something and pops out! I have also lost more than one SD card from my 2210!

That is indeed a problem. However, you may want to consider getting a "vertical" case that covers the cards.

[Kowalski]

the days of microdrives has ended!
why should i but a power hungry card instead of buying much more durable solid state.
there is no reason to do so

[Sven Johannsen]

the days of microdrives has ended!
why should i but a power hungry card instead of buying much more durable solid state.
there is no reason to do so

Price/Capacity?

6G microdrive $285
6G SD/CF ?

4G microdrive $179
4G SD ?
4G CF $429

2G microdrive $127 (2.2G $109)
2G SD $199
2G CF $219

All prices on available items at http://www.memorysuppliers.com/

[Ripper014]

I agree... microdrives will be around for a while since they are still much cheaper $/mb but as that changes the microdrive will go the way of the 8-track tape player.

I also believe that CF cards are less volatile than their SD counterparts... I have heard of very few stories of bad CF cards compared to the number of horror stories out there about SD cards... including my own history of 4 bad SD cards... each time losing data that I was not able to recover. I have yet to have one of my CF cards go bad.

I also have a microdrive that I bought when they first came out... 4 or 5 years ago... I don't remember and it is still working fine for me. But this drive has never been mistreated (dropped, ok maybe once or twice) and it does not see extended use very often. Afterall these devices are mechanical in nature... and their biggest enemy is probably heat from use during extended sessions.

[maikii]

the days of microdrives has ended!
why should i but a power hungry card instead of buying much more durable solid state.
there is no reason to do so

Price/Capacity?

6G microdrive $285
6G SD/CF ?

4G microdrive $179
4G SD ?
4G CF $429

2G microdrive $127 (2.2G $109)
2G SD $199
2G CF $219

All prices on available items at http://www.memorysuppliers.com/

I agree that hard drives are still much cheaper per MB than Flash, but I think your prices are exaggerated. I didn't check your link, but if you look at www.pricegrabber.com (better to use the link from the homepage of www.pocketpcthoughts.com if you are buying, to help support this site) or www.pricewatch.com or www.dealram.com, you can find CF flash memory cards at MUCH lower prices than what you specify here, although still more expensive per MB than a microdrive.

For instance, you list a 2GB CF flash card for $219. I have seen them for $99. I have seen 4 GB flash CF cards for about $220 (your price for 2GB), you list 4GB cards for $429.

It looks like you picked the lowest prices you saw for the microdrives, and the highest prices you saw for the CF cards, in order to make your point. I don't see how such exaggeration helps the discussion. To compare prices of different media, you need to look at the lowest prices on each type.

[Kowalski]

come on! where did you come up with these prices?!
here http://www.memorysuppliers.com/sa2gb20coflm.html a 2 GB CF card is listed $165 at memory suppliers and i am sure that you can find a better deal very easily
and you can find a 4 GB card something around $250 from dell outlet

what is your point, i just dont get it

[Sven Johannsen]

Boy you guys are picky. I went to pricewatch to start and settled on one site that had the majority of items. I didn't think I was required to scoure the internet for the absolute best price of each genre. I did not pick the highest flash and lowest micro. I actually picked the lowest price of each in each size that came up on the page. So I picked a Lexar 2G CF instead of the Sandisk one. I don't see Sandisk as a bargain at any price.

The point? Microdrives on the average are still a better buy per MB, if you are looking at saving money, and they are readily available in sizes that you can't touch in flash yet. My response was in reference to "there is no reason to do so" as far as buying a microdrive. For some there might be...price/capacity. The price difference may not be that great anymore at the lower capacities, but is certainly significant at 6G.

If you care to redo my comparisons, go for it. But be sure nobody here can find a lower price for anything you find. Don't forget the links, cuz "I have seen them for $99. I have seen 4 GB flash CF cards for about $220" isn't going to cut it with his crowd.
:roll:

P.S. at Dell Outlet a 4G Sandisk (swell) CF is $358, a 2G is $179. They have micro drives too, Hitachi, $199 and $120 for the 4 and 2G respectively.

[maikii]

Since they are spring loaded, the card touches something and pops out! I have also lost more than one SD card from my 2210!

That is indeed a problem. However, you may want to consider getting a "vertical" case that covers the cards.

I have a leather flip case. Yes, when it's closed it covers the cards. But it's not always closed. There really should be a cover for the SD card slot built into the PPC, as there is on every digital camera I've seen.

Are all PPC SD card slots open like that? All the IPAQs? Poor design.

[maikii]

Don't forget the links, cuz "I have seen them for $99. I have seen 4 GB flash CF cards for about $220" isn't going to cut it with his crowd.
:roll:



I gave plenty of links to price comparison sites, and you could have seen the prices I mentioned at any of them.

Hmm---let's see-----"4GB flash CF cards for about $220 isn't going to cut it with this crowd".

Let's see if this "cuts it with this crowd":


[/url]http://www.mwave.com/mwave/skusearch.hmx?SCriteria=BA20999


Mwave has the Kingston 4GB CF Flash Memory card for $218.50. Could that be called "about $220"?

In fact, there is also a $20 mail-in rebate available on that now, which would make the price "after rebate" to be "less than $200".

I'm not denying your main point, that microdrives are cheaper per MB than flash memory cards. That was stated in my original post to this thread, and I'm sure no one would deny that. One could get a 4GB microdrive for about $180 (does that "cut it with this crowd"?), and that is certainly a lower price than $220. It's only that in trying to make your point, you stated prices for the flash cards much higher than the prices you can buy them for. Not a difference of a few dollars, but hundreds. (I think you stated $429 for a 4GB CF flash card, two hundred dollars more than what I saw.) I'm not denying that you saw the prices you quoted, as there is a lot of price variation in what retailers sell these for, but I have to assume that you looked for the lowest prices for the microdrives (as those prices were pretty good), and put in higher prices you found for the flash cards.

In other words, although your main point is correct (that microdrives are cheaper per MB than flash memory cards), stretching facts to emphasize your point is not responsible journalism.

[Sven Johannsen]

Where did I imply I was a journalist? My point was only that microdrives are still cheaper per MB, and available in larger capacities. I've said twice, I looked at one site and picked about the first item of a type that showed up on that one site. I figured I could do better, but figured if their CF/SD cards were overpriced, their microdrives would be too. So you got a 4G CF for ~$200. Here's a 4G micro for $125 http://www.nowdirect.com/direct/partInfo/part_detail.tsb?partid=17144. We can do this all night, and I'm tired. Personally I would likely wouldn't get another microdrive at this time, they suck power. But they are cheaper, which no-one denies. And they are more cheaper the bigger you get. So they still have a place in the ecosystem. If you could buy a 20G microdrive for $250 instead of a $250 20G Ipod or a 20G Portable Media Center for $350, wouldn't that be a deal? If it happens at all, you can bet an affordable 20G microdrive will be out way before an affordable 20G CF or SD.

[Kowalski]

we dont have to do this allnight :)
allright, i got your point now. if 20 GB microdrive hits the market befoure 20 GB compact flash cards, microdrives may survive.

this may be a little bit off topic but i am waiting for solid state harddrives to hit the market. if companies make good money out of solid state HDDs, the evolution will be must faster

[maikii]

I see a Transcend 2 GB CF (flash) card for less than $100:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820160117&ATT=Memory+Flash+Memory+&CMP=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r

Does anyone know anything about the quality of Transcend flash cards? Are they just as good as more well-known names like Kingston, Lexar, and Sandisk? (I've even wondered if all flash cards are manufactured in the same factories in Asia, and the only difference between brands is the different labels they put on them?)

I guess the $120 KIngston 2GB CF card with $20 rebate ends up costing about the same, if you figure in the rebate, but mail-in rebates are a hassle. If this Transcend card is just as good, I might go with it.

Does anybody notice a real difference in speed in flash cards? This Transcend card says it is 45x, and Newegg sells another Transcend 2 GB flash card listed as 80x, for about $120. (I don't know the speed rating of the Kingston card.)

[Don't Panic!]

Today you are the ant Sven. :pukeface2:

[Ripper014]

Unfortunately all the current devices that I am aware of developed their SD slots springloaded. I myself almost lost a brand new card on the first day because it came out during lunch. Lucky for me I went to use it when I got back to the office and found that my data was missing. A quick call to restaurant (it helps that I was on good terms with the hostess) and I was able to retrieve it.

The only company that did it right was Casio... on the E500 series they actually had a locking mechanism for the SD card.

[Dyvim]

Yes, CF is more expensive than microdrives per GB, but there's also the durability and warranty issues.

SanDisk's Ultra II product line comes with a lifetime manufacturer's warranty, so although that won't help you recover lost data if your CF card does die, at least you can get the card fixed or replaced. What do most microdrives offer? 1 year?

Prices on these things vary widely on a daily basis. I bought a 4 GB Ultra II CF card from Dell Home back in April for $307 delivered but today they are $344 (and the cheapest delivered price I get from PriceGrabber is $342). A couple weeks after I bought the card there was actually a 24-hour period where you could get it for $262.50 delivered but that didn't last long.

[maikii]

Unfortunately all the current devices that I am aware of developed their SD slots springloaded. I myself almost lost a brand new card on the first day because it came out during lunch. Lucky for me I went to use it when I got back to the office and found that my data was missing. A quick call to restaurant (it helps that I was on good terms with the hostess) and I was able to retrieve it.

The only company that did it right was Casio... on the E500 series they actually had a locking mechanism for the SD card.

Well, ALL devices I have ever seen with an SD card have them spring-loaded. I don't think that's the choice of the device manufacturer, it's how SD and MMC cards work.

BUT--my digital camera and MP3 player, both of which use SD cards, have a latched cover to secure the card. I have never lost a card from them. However, my IPAQ 2210 has no cover for the slot (true for all PPCS?), and I have lost a couple cards from it before.

SD card slots should be covered!

[MatthewNCB]

Well I wouldnt have condsidered a microdrive, but now that Seagate have released an 8Gb microdrive, im definately looking again.

That in my Loox, with a 2Gb SD Card, and i should be happy for about 6 months.

[maikii]

Well I wouldnt have condsidered a microdrive, but now that Seagate have released an 8Gb microdrive, im definately looking again.

That in my Loox, with a 2Gb SD Card, and i should be happy for about 6 months.

Yeah, I was just reading about that 8GB Microdrive. Is it actually available now? Probably rather expensive at first, but in a year or so, should be much cheaper, definitely much cheaper (even now) than an 8GB flash card! Thee are 6GB Hitachi Microdrives available now.

I don't disagree at all with Sven's premise that microdrives are not at all dead, that they will always have a much better MB per buck ratio than flash memory, etc. And I would guess that they will become more durable with time, so that problems like we have discussed (short life span when used in PPC) won't continue. (I only disagreed with the flash memory prices he quoted, being hundreds of dollars more than the prices I saw.)

One sees the trend already. Palm has now come out with a PDA with built-in 4GB microdrive, and I suspect there will soon be PPCs with them as well. Yes, most people don't have enough programs on their PDA to need that much storage, but if one wants to use their PDA also as a media device, to put movies and music on it, more storage is definitely an asset.

I hear Samsung has come out with a phone with hard drive, which will come out later this year. Again, most smartphones don't have enough apps and documents that a HD would be necessary, but if you use it for media too, again, good to have that storage.

And of course--since the advent of the Ipod, HD MP3 players have superseded flash MP3 players in sales, by a large margin I think.

JVC has come out with its Everio line of camcorders, using a microdrive for storage, instead of tape.

So--I think microdrive use may greatly increase in the future. They are not at all dead. And their increased availability and use may be driving down flash memory prices as well, although I think the microdrive will always provide better value, as the prices of both flash memory and HD storage decreases.

But, in this case, buying a new CF card for my IPAQ, due to the short life of my Hitachi 4GB Microdrive, and others here reporting short life on them, I think I'll opt for a CF flash card, even though I could get another 4GB microdrive for not much more than a 2GB CF flash card.

[MatthewNCB]

They have started producing, but unfortunately Apple has signed them up, to supply them as the drives in the new Ipod Mini, so they are going to take all the product for the next few months. I would imagine, that you will probably see 8Gb Ipods before you will see the drives for sales on their own.

However Ipods arent normally that badly priced, so i might consider just buying the Ipod and taking it apart.

I'll have a chat with an apple guy i know tomorrow, to try and get a launch date.

[Sven Johannsen]

However Ipods arent normally that badly priced, so i might consider just buying the Ipod and taking it apart.

Careful. They have been known to try and make that difficult. Beats me why. Why should Apple care if you buy an iPod, whether you listen to music, take it apart, or use it as a skeet target. Unless of course they are low balling iPod prices to provide a platform for their music service. That's the cell phone market, does that work in the music player market?

[Donsell]

I've read that CF cards are faster than SD cards when writing and retrieving information. Do PPC devices support the newer 10MB SD cards like Scandisk Ultra II and how do they compare to CF? Are they just a waste of money on these platforms?

[Nurhisham Hussein]

That isn't true of the latest generation devices, although it used to be - SD as a rule will tend to be faster than CF, even if you won't be able to take full advantage of the higher speeds on offer. AFAIK this is mainly due to the limitations of the interface rather than the cards themselves.

[Scott716]

My experience is similar to others' here: About 3 years ago, I had a Microdrive. Dropped it once from about 3" onto grass while taking photographs and it died, never to work again.

I thought I would at least take it apart for the fun of it, but it requires unique tiny tools to tinker with.

In photography forums, where professionals talk about needing a lot of memory for their cameras, professionals express extreme caution about microdrives because they have failed unexpectedly.

I would not purchase a microdrive again, regardless of price. It is not worth the risk of losing photographs, music, or other things on it.