WM5 vs. WM3

[ppc_md2b]

Hey All,

New member, just switching over from Palm to PPC. Just a quick question for the veterans ... do you find something "lacking" in WM3 that you are really excited about WM5? I can imagine that the persistent memory is probably a great idea, but what about the other new features? Coming from Palm OS, one of my key requirements (in addition to 3rd party apps) is a good MS Office application, like DocsToGo. WM5 has this; doesn't WM3 have this as well? If so, what is the improvement? How about PDF viewers?

Cheers,

JG

[surur]

WM5 will offer better office products and a PPT viewer, but Textmaker/Planmaker will still be the only real desktop compatible office solution.

WM5 will offer a variety of improvements, some significant changes to the UI, and a lot of changes under the hood, such as direct x support, which should make for some very nice games.

From my POV at least persistent store will be the biggest deal, as you will then be able to use your device to 0%, instead of 40-50% (due to the fear of flat battery induced hard reset). This will change completely the way people use their pocketpc e.g as a music player. You will be able to be a lot more casual as a user. Another nice thing is supposed to be allowing pocketpc's to be used as a USB thumb drive, like the Palm drive mode.

Overall I feel it will be a very big upgrade, and I'm looking forward to it.

If you buy a Loox you will get 5 software choice points, and Textmaker is only 3 points.

There is a nice Acrobat reader for WM, and people often convert pdf's using ?repligo.

Here's a pic of an acrobat document on my loox ppc.

http://surur.sytes.net/acrobat.png

BTW, I'm not stalking you :lol:

Surur

[ppc_md2b]

Hi Surur,

Thanks man, for your excellent advice and info! If this is stalking, then stalk away! :)

I think Loox is out for me, given my location. In the future (and after I graduate from med school) if there is North American support for the device I will seriously consider picking one up. In the meantime, I think I've narrowed it down to either the HP4700 or the Tosh 830. Both appear to have great screens (and I've read a lot of back-and-forth between which is best) and good processor speed.

Any comments to break the tie would be welcome, and don't worry, I won't hold you (or anyone else on the list) responsible if I buy a dud device :wink:

Cheers,

JG

[surur]

Well the difference between the HP 4700 and the Toshiba 830 is a much more interesting question than between the Loox and the Toshiba.

In this case they both have 4 inch screens. The HP is large, but thin, and lighter. It has a quirky laptop like touchpad vs the more normal buttons of the Toshiba. You will either love it or hate it. I believe it has a magnesium casing, which is quite cool.

The Toshiba has USB host, which means you can connect it to USB thumb drives, keyboards and mice easily.

The Toshiba has 64Mb ROM and 128Mb ram, the better configuration currently. The HP has 128Mb ROM and 64MB ram, which will suite the new Wm5 OS better. The HP unit is definitely getting the upgrade. The Toshiba probably not.

The HP has a huge 1800 mAh battery, and very good battery life. It has WMP 10, which means it works with Napster and Rhapsody to Go.

The HP is reasonably well supported, and whereas Toshiba appears to be leaving the market.

To boil it down, I think the Toshiba is the better, more versatile unit, but the HP will be better supported and is more future proof. I would at this point get the HP.

Surur

[SteveHoward999]

I deliberatly chose the E830 for a couple of reasons

1, I too think it is hte better machine
2, I have a terminal aversion to anything HP other than printers. Not really sure how or why, but at least I can admit I have a problem ;-)


The Toshiba is a fantastic machine, although I do admit to considerable bias :lol:

The 4 inch VGA screen makes using it very rewarding, especially if your eyesight allows you to use VGA to the maximum.

The iPAQ has the best battery life, and some clever built-in tricks to extend it if, for instance, you are only reading an eBook. But the Toshiba has great support from Mugen for extended-life batteries, up to 5400 mA/hour. Not sure if the iPAQ has the same battery support ...

If you really think that you will prefer to use WM5 when the upgrade ius available then get the iPAQ, but remember there are software solutions to all your needs, even if they do not exist natively with the OS. Especially get the iPAQ if you worry about limited support from Toshiba, although HP gets plenty of criticism in that department too.

There is a pdf reader from Adobe, although it is a little bloated and slow, it is now in version 2 and considerably better than version 1. I only use it if I cannot find what I have to read in another format. And it is free ;-)

[Paragon]

At this stage of the game, I wouldn't even consider the Toshiba, for one single reason...no WM5.0 upgrade. Sorry, SteveHoward999.
I would however take a look at the Dell x50v. It seems to come down to personal likes and dislikes between the Ipaq and the Axim. Both are going to be getting the WM5.0 upgrade.

Welcome to the darkside. You are now assimilated. :robot:

Dave

[Darius Wey]

If you really think that you will prefer to use WM5 when the upgrade ius available then get the iPAQ, but remember there are software solutions to all your needs, even if they do not exist natively with the OS.

Sorry Steve. I'm really going to have to disagree on this point. Yes, there are a lot of software solutions available, but this will hardly replicate Windows Mobile 5.0. The new platform is anything but a collection of fancy software upgrades. Hidden beneath this layer are a set of new technologies which will open up many doors and deliver exciting new applications in the future (and I'm talking applications which will shine on Windows Mobile 5.0, and not so much on Windows Mobile 2003).

After talking to a Toshiba representative, I hardly think the e830 is the way to go. The Axim X50v or the iPAQ hx4700 are probably two options which should be considered. Both will receive the Windows Mobile 5.0 upgrade.

[ppc_md2b]

Hi All,

After reading all of the intelligent and well-informed replies, I think the best solution (for me, or for anyone) at this point is just to get down to the retailer and spend a good while playing with the devices in one's own hands. Ask the sales rep about warranties, pricing, confirm what has been posted on these boards, etc. and then tell him/her to leave you be for a while and just mess around with the units and see what "feels" best.

Either way, nothing is perfect ... true in life, love, and (alas) gadgets!!!

G'nite,

JG

[Darius Wey]

Be sure to look at the VGA Pocket PCs on offer. Once you see the screen, you won't want anything else. :lol:

[SteveHoward999]

If you really think that you will prefer to use WM5 when the upgrade ius available then get the iPAQ, but remember there are software solutions to all your needs, even if they do not exist natively with the OS.

Sorry Steve. I'm really going to have to disagree on this point. Yes, there are a lot of software solutions available, but this will hardly replicate Windows Mobile 5.0.


I don't see how you are disagreeing with me when I said there were software solutions to all his needs, whereas you think I said they might replicate WM5 ... I didn't say anything close to that. I made the point that if he wants WM 5 then avoid the Toshiba. We are in agreement!

[Darius Wey]

I don't see how you are disagreeing with me when I said there were software solutions to all his needs, whereas you think I said they might replicate WM5 ... I didn't say anything close to that. I made the point that if he wants WM 5 then avoid the Toshiba. We are in agreement!

I guess it's a case of semantics. But I can see both sides of what you're saying now. Oh well. :lol:

[Gremmie]

I would suggest to hold out for WM5 units for one reason-scalability. Although you'll be able to upgrade from WM3 to WM5 on some machines, those machines will be unlikely upgradeable to the next version (WM7?)

I'm standing on a fair amount of evidence, persistent memory has always been a problem for upgrading--3.0 to 2000, 2000 to 2002, 2002 to 2003, and on some, 2003 to 2005.

[goes on a longer thesis] Although PDAs as a whole are popular, on a technical support standpoint, they receive very little support. This is because of the embedded nature of the operating system. The downside is that software upgrades and "reinstalling" are uncommon. Technical support tends to narrow in on the current operating system (desktops have a bit of legecy support). So it is typically better to have the current operating system, buying a WM5 device will (hopefully) ensure upgradeability. Nevertheless, devices do not go out of date as long as the kernal has not changed too much. I'm running on PPC 2002 and have not ran into compatibility problems. However, with VGA support these days, I'm venturing on the fringe of the ratio of my device to current commercial capabilities. For you, that means buying a WM3 device doesn't mean you'll be out of the game in a couple of years, but it severely narrows the domain of the ratio of your device to commercial capabilities. [/thesis]

[Dalantech]

Normally I don't advise people to wait, but in this case I have to agree with Gremmie: Late Q4 2005 or Q1 2006 there should be a few new PDAs out that are actually designed for WM 5.0. Although the current crop of PDAs are pretty good, none of them have the GPU horsepower that you'll want for 3D gaming -the first generation of GPUs for PDAs are not very good (with the exception of Nvidia's offerings, but they haven't been built into too many PDAs yet).

Granted, the iPaq 4700 has a gorgeous screen, but the ATI Imageon GPU in it is a little underpowered IMHO (and benchmarks back me up). Once you see 3D games on WM5 PDAs you'll want a device that has a really good GPU...

The Dell x50V uses the Intel 2700 GPU, and although it's not bad, it's still not a "screamer" and was designed primarily to accelerate OpenGL, not MD3D. And then there is the display -so washed out and dim that my iPaq hx2410 looks better, even though it's only QVGA. The battery life on the Dell is also a deal breaker for me: Putting an 1100 mAh standard battery in a VGA PDA was a serious design error -too many shortcuts were taken on the x50V to bring the price down.

I seriously expect my next PDA to cost more than a low end laptop...

[surur]

Hi All,

After reading all of the intelligent and well-informed replies, I think the best solution (for me, or for anyone) at this point is just to get down to the retailer and spend a good while playing with the devices in one's own hands. Ask the sales rep about warranties, pricing, confirm what has been posted on these boards, etc. and then tell him/her to leave you be for a while and just mess around with the units and see what "feels" best.

Either way, nothing is perfect ... true in life, love, and (alas) gadgets!!!

G'nite,

JG

Remember not to be misled by clueless sales people. Also you can not see the Dell in person. Its obviously on-line only.

What I'm saying this is the best advice you are going to get unfortunately :) :D :D :D

Surur

[Ripper014]

I am still at a loss as to why you are all so enamored with WM5 and even more so with persistant storage. BIS are known to have failed... and actually in my case the other day my device failed to see it. However after a hard reset it came back a first for me.

I have said this before... persistant storage can be replicated with a storage card... in fact it is usually faster to access than from BIS... you can not replicate ram easily without some serious modifications that would void your warranty.

From what I have seen so far there is nothing that is being offered by Wm5 that makes it worth having... other than perhaps direct X if your a gamer. In this persons case I do not believe that is the main usage of the device. It is a working machine and IMHO he requires the maximum working real estate he can get to do what he needs to get done.

The current vga devices are already taking a pretty serious hit in speed it doesn't need to be bloated any more with whatever additions WM5 has in store for it. Microsoft is famous for and have built their reputation on giving the customer more bright lights and fancy options... thus requiring more processor speed... why I feel they and Intel are in business together.

The new package they are bundling with WM5 is much better than what was offered previously... but they will not be as good as third party alternatives...

My initial impressions are this... you are going to have your software stored in your BIS (persistant storage) as opposed to ram... and it will be slower to access... To me it seems rather than give the customer more ram... they opted to manage the little they were offering the customer better. As I said... persistant storage = storage card, faster and just as safe.

I do agree if you can wait for the new devices wait... but I would not be one of the first to get one. Let other do the testing for you... ie. the Hx1700... The worst thing that could happen is that you can get a WM2003 device for a great price.

[KTamas]

Be sure to look at the VGA Pocket PCs on offer. Once you see the screen, you won't want anything else. :lol:
...unless you fell in love with Phone Edition devices more, than VGA ;) HTC Universal, where art thou? :lol:

[surur]

Be sure to look at the VGA Pocket PCs on offer. Once you see the screen, you won't want anything else. :lol:
...unless you fell in love with Phone Edition devices more, than VGA ;)

I went from an XDA 2 to a Loox 720 (VGA) with a separate 3G phone (SE V800). I find the combination too bulky however, and hope to move to the MDA IV in a few months. I'm never giving up VGA however.

Surur