x50v, mem and backup batt question

[h0mersimps0n]

Hey guys,

I just got my x50v a few days ago and can't stop messing around with it. I have a few questions I'm still confused about even after googling around a little bit maybe someone can dumb it down for me.

What is the deal with the memory system in the x50v?
I've been building my own computer for 7 years now so I know RAM/ROM, etc (don't dumb it down that much).

I see total Main at about 61MB and "storage card" at 91MB
I see in the specs that installed RAM is 64MB and installed ROM is 128MB.

What I can't understand at this MFing point is why in the world Dell (or whoever) would choose to put programs and installed software on the RAM (which is volatile/suseptible to battery deadening), when there's all that good ROM lying around (non-volatile right?)?

I noticed there is a thread lower down about moving all of your programs and such off your RAM and getting it into your ROM and/or memory card (CF in my case).

Can anyone comment on this RAM/ROM thing?

What is the deal with the backup battery? Does it recharge if you do work into it? How come it wasn't dead when I first took it out of the box? There was no batteries in the x50v when it arrived, and it definitely took longer than 30minutes to ship?

Thanks!

[Don Tolson]

I'm certainly not the techie whiz guru in this area, but I suspect that when the upgrade to Mobile 2005 is released, you'll see a lot more of your programs and static data residing in ROM, while RAM will be used primarily for 'active' applications.

I believe Microsoft referred to this as 'persistent memory management', which is part of the Mobile 5.0 operating system.

[Sven Johannsen]

What I can't understand at this MFing point is why in the world Dell (or whoever) would choose to put programs and installed software on the RAM (which is volatile/suseptible to battery deadening), when there's all that good ROM lying around (non-volatile right?)? They don't really. Not entirely. When you boot a PPC for the first time or hard reset. Some of the operating system, and support files are loaded into RAM, and they stay there, continually refreshed by the battery to acheive the instant on experience you get with PPCs. The RAM is divided into what would be a RAM Disk on an older PC and System RAM, the Storage and Program RAM respectively. When you load programs you get to put it in the RAM Disk, ROM or a flash Memory card. The latter two options don't provide the speed that some applications require, and possibley aren't initialized quickly enough after a soft reset to be available at startup.

This architecture was chosen at the beginning because of the state of memory technology and the experience that MS wanted to provide. There was a difference in providing an affordable instant on PDA when you are talking about a 16 gray scale 33Mhz, 1M RAM machine as opposed to a 2048 color, 133Mhz, 32M RAM machine.

Things have changed. It is now concievable to configure the PPC more like the PC model, where you can have non-volitile ROM acting much like a hard drive, a RAM section that operates lke PC RAM in that it does need to have OS bits running in it to use the machine, and alowances for that removable hard drive, The CF/SD slot. WM2005 takes advantage of the current hardware capability. Some OEMs had already built hardware with that in mind, though the OS installed was still operating under the old paradigm.

As far as the backup battery on first use, it does seem there is a sort of ship state that PPCs can be in that essentially does have the unit totally off, not using any power at all. Most require installing the main battery charging it for a short period and then turning it on. The main Lithium battery will also hold a relatively full charge for a considerable length of time if out of the unit (month, two?). The backup battery is not designed to work into, and the system won't let you. It is designed to retain essential data, programs loaded into RAM, Registry, PIM Info, while you change to a second battery, or get to a charging capability while not turning the unit on.

[Jon Westfall]

The main Lithium battery will also hold a relatively full charge for a considerable length of time if out of the unit (month, two?).

Through various circumstances I have a spare battery for both my 6315 and my x50v. The 6315's can be in my bag for 3 - 4 months and only go down from 100% to around 70%, so they are fairly resiliant.

[h0mersimps0n]

Sven, I really appreciate you taking the time to write that out, it does make me feel a little better now that I kind of understand what is going on...

I am still curious though, what EXACTLY will I lose should that backup battery go empty?

Thanks again

[Sven Johannsen]

Sven, I really appreciate you taking the time to write that out, it does make me feel a little better now that I kind of understand what is going on...

I am still curious though, what EXACTLY will I lose should that backup battery go empty?

Thanks again

The backup battery won't go empty until the primary battery has totally run out of juice. At that point you don't have a lot of time, depending on your device. With the X50, don't let that happen ;) Read the note on the power control panel battery page.

So what happens if you let the main and backup drain? You'll be the proud owner of a brand new out-of-the-box pristine X50. Right from the tap the screen to set up your PPC for the first time. It's called a Hard Reset, and there will come a time when you will want to do it. It's the equivalent of reformat C: and re-install Windows, but a whole lot faster.

Actually the stuff in Built-In Storage (BIS) will survive and of course everyting on Flash Memory cards. Unfortunately, in most cases, even if you have installed programs to BIS, the registry entries and possibly some dlls went into RAM, so you'll be re-installing to get them to work again.

This might be a good time to bring up the concept of backups :)

A Soft Reset, incidentally, is like a re-boot. You won't lose any data except possibly things that are open at the time, just like a big machine. This is the poke hole on the back. It's your friend.

P.S. Did you notice elsewhere that Dell has indicated that they are going to provide an upgrade for X50s to WM2005? That will make the device use the new memory concept, and eliminate the annoying anxiety about the device running down.

[h0mersimps0n]

Sven you rock. I think I get it now...

OK, since you're so good at this, you lead me into another question:

POCKET PC BACKUP:

-Is that backup program that comes with the PPC good enough to restore my entire system should I lose backup?

-IS there any software out there that will make an IMAGE of my setup and allow me to easily restore is should something go wrong?

-IF not, I CALL DIBS ON THE PATENT!!! (sounds like a great idea considering the ramifications of 30 min of inattentiveness eh?)...

Thanks again man

[Sven Johannsen]

Sven you rock. Thanks, my help is usually well received. My opinions, not so much :wink:


-IS there any software out there that will make an IMAGE of my setup and allow me to easily restore is should something go wrong? Yes, actually that is pretty much the default way PPC backup programs work. They make a snapshot of your RAM and restore that. Gives you back all your installed program, personalized settings, contacts, etc. You are essentially back to where you were when you took the snapshot. Note that since that since the sync process keeps databases synchronized, contacts, calendar, restoring to a week old version on one side can cause some problems, but normally nothing serious. Maybe some duplicates, a previously deleted item comes back, or a conflict you need to resolve.

The backup program that comes with the Dell should do you nicely. Before you get to far into loading and configuring, you might give it a go to see how it works and get a warm fuzzy. Nothing like doing backups every week for a year but never having tested whether you can restore?

I honestly haven't used the one that comes with the Dell. I use a product calle Sprite Backup and have been for a long time. Started back when OEMs didn't include an option, and the AS capability was shaky and slow. Got used to it. Lots of folks seem to like it, and it has the advantage of being able to schedule backups and can save the backup in a self executable file. Mine backs itself up to the SD every morning at 4AM. I have it set to keep 3 days backups. If I lose everything I navigate to the SD card with the built in File Explorer and run the executable file from that day, and I'm back up. Yes, I've done it.

-IF not, I CALL DIBS ON THE PATENT!!! (sounds like a great idea considering the ramifications of 30 min of inattentiveness eh?)...
To late ;)