Is Visual Studio .net a must for being a successful developer?

[Phillip Dyson]

I came across this starter kit (http://msdn.microsoft.com/mobility/thekit/) from microsoft and am considering picking it up. However its unlikely that I'd be willing to pay the high price for Visual Studio. Not knowing much about the .net space, much less the Compact framework, I'm wondering is Visual Studio a must for Windows Mobile development.

thanks

[paulzazzarino]

You can develop Apps using the embedded tools either in VB or C++. Both of these tools are free downloads from MS.

.NET CF is a subset of the full blown .NET Framework. The toolkit you saw adds on to this. Note: you can develop CE/Pocket PC mobile web applications using the standard edition of .NET (web applications). This is virtually free or you can download the command line version of the .NET toolkit (free) For more on how to do this see www.3zwireless.com/dotnet1.html

To develop CE.NET or Pocket PC.NET apps you will need the Professional Edition of the .NET toolkit. This is the one that goes for over $1000

In my opinion MS should make this available in their Std Edition since the embedded tools are free. .NET CF makes it easier and quicker, plus the gains from all of the portability and trap protection issues. BUT, it still is only 1/4 of what the full .NET Framework offers. As time progresses and the hardware gets better, and .NET CF catches up the .NET Framework will be the method of choice! (Depending on who you talk to it already is!)

[Kowalski]

.net compact framework has some advanteges and disadvantages. if you are a hardcore programmer, i mean programmed c++ for at least a couple of years, you will be just fine with embedded visual c++.
but on the other hand for future investment i strongly advice you to code in c#. i downloaded and installed .net compact framework 2.0 and there is a significient speed improvement. i am still using visual studio 2003 and havent got my hands on 2005 yet but i am sure that 2005 will be a killer tool

[Phillip Dyson]

Given the price of Visual Studio, are you buying this for personal use or do you get it through work.
I don't expect to have any financial income from any work that I do. So spending thousands of dollars just to tinker is out of the question.

I am a java developer, so perhaps I can find a free/inexpensive c# editor. Perhaps a plugin for eclipse.

I'm a java/smalltalk developer and am not that familiar with the .net development space. Would the development kit just be a library thats visible to whatever IDE I used?

I guess I'm just trying to get a feel for what sort of investment I would need to make before I even get started.

[Kowalski]

i use enterprise edition at work. my boss spent something like ~2000$ :roll:
at home, for my personal projects i still use embedded visual c++ for windows mobile and sharpdevelop for desktop applications.

in .net world things are a little bit different. the compiler comes with the framework, not with the ide(the code is compiled at runtime). so it is much more easier to code an ide than for native languages.

i suggest you to order a visual studio 2005 DVD. it is still in beta phase but people using this release report very promising things.

you say that you are a java developer, so you wont fell far from home when using c#(syntax) but eclipse and visual studio are totally different worlds. this is my idea, but i bealive once a programmer learns to use visual studio to its potential, he will never turn back to eclipse.(am i starting a debate?)

[Phillip Dyson]

i use enterprise edition at work. my boss spent something like ~2000$ :roll:
at home, for my personal projects i still use embedded visual c++ for windows mobile and sharpdevelop for desktop applications.

in .net world things are a little bit different. the compiler comes with the framework, not with the ide(the code is compiled at runtime). so it is much more easier to code an ide than for native languages.

i suggest you to order a visual studio 2005 DVD. it is still in beta phase but people using this release report very promising things.

you say that you are a java developer, so you wont fell far from home when using c#(syntax) but eclipse and visual studio are totally different worlds. this is my idea, but i bealive once a programmer learns to use visual studio to its potential, he will never turn back to eclipse.(am i starting a debate?)

Under different circumstances you may have started a debate with me. Unfortunately I have no experience on the darkside yet, so I have no ammunition. Yet. :D

[paulzazzarino]

Since you are a java programmer you can pick up on C# real fast.

Also if you have a strongarm based ce device you may want to try out Jeodes JVM which runs on ipaqs and the like. You then can build and run java apps which will run on these devices. [I used netbeans to create and deploy an RMI app which ran between ipaq handhelds and XP servers, this was basically developed with free software. Netbeans is free. The Jeode JVM ships loaded with some CE devices]

Like I said you can build web apps with .NET using the standard edition which is anywhere from 65 -> 100 $

For standalone C# apps though you will need to purchase the enterprise edition [unless MS changes their marketing position]

OR just stick with embedded VC++ or VB which are FREE!

[Phillip Dyson]

Since you are a java programmer you can pick up on C# real fast.

Also if you have a strongarm based ce device you may want to try out Jeodes JVM which runs on ipaqs and the like. You then can build and run java apps which will run on these devices. [I used netbeans to create and deploy an RMI app which ran between ipaq handhelds and XP servers, this was basically developed with free software. Netbeans is free. The Jeode JVM ships loaded with some CE devices]

Like I said you can build web apps with .NET using the standard edition which is anywhere from 65 -> 100 $

For standalone C# apps though you will need to purchase the enterprise edition [unless MS changes their marketing position]

OR just stick with embedded VC++ or VB which are FREE!

I had thought about going the Java route, but it never seemed like it was a work-around solution. The JVM has a large footprint and I wasn't sure how I would be able to get access to the CE APIs in the OS. Unless the Jeodes JVM provides these APIs. I'll take a look at it.

[Phillip Dyson]

I can't seem to find Jeode anywhere.

The Insignia (http://www.insignia.com/content/products/jvmProducts.shtml)site refers me to esmertec (http://www.esmertec.com/) and I don't see it on their site.

[Peter Foot]

For standalone C# apps though you will need to purchase the enterprise edition [unless MS changes their marketing position]

OR just stick with embedded VC++ or VB which are FREE!

I'd seriously avoid starting any new projects with eVB since it's obsolete and lets face it pretty rough. To use C# or VB.NET you'll need VS2003 Professional or higher. With the next version of tools - VS2005 you'll be able to do device development in the Standard edition which significantly reduces the entry point.

eVC++ is still supported for developing native code applications on current devices, with VS2005 you'll be able to develop native and managed (.NETCF) apps within the same package, and eVC++ will no longer be supported for new devices.

If you can get hold of the VS2005 Beta - either as an MSDN subscriber or by ordering on disc, I highly recommend you try out the new tools

Peter