Does Your Pocket PC Phone Drive Nearby Electronics To Buzz?

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://blogs.pcworld.com/techlog/archives/000622.html">http://blogs.pcworld.com/techlog/archives/000622.html</a><br /><br /><i>"I've written here before about my (still fairly) new Treo 650 phone, and how much I like it. I've almost forgotten what life was like without it. But it's developing a lousy reputation around the PC World offices for a reason I never would have anticipated. The problem is this: When the Treo is doing data--which it often does in the background, since it's set to grab e-mail for me on the fly--it causes any monitor or speakerphone in close proximity to make a weird intermittent buzzing noise. It kind of sounds like Morse Code, circa 2005, and it's both mysterious and annoying. </i>"<br /><br />Well, it isn't just the Treo. My PDA2K does it as well, but only when it is actually transmitting data over GPRS. Just having the GPRS indicator on doesn't do it nor does a GSM phone call or SMS message. But as soon as data starts moving back and forth over the GPRS radio, nearby speakers begin this strange electronic hum/buzz combo, and the pitch changes with the amount of data being transmitted. I can put it next to my speaker and tell when an email attachment is coming down versus just headers being pulled or NewsBreak is syncing my RSS feeds. It isn't Cingular as the article suggests either. I have T-Mobile and I am not roaming. Have you noticed this?

[JonnoB]

Almost all phones will do this from the RF that speakers will pick up. The most audible seem to be the Nextel iDen based phones. Makes you wonder - if the RF on phones could do this to speakers, what could it do to other sensitive equipment?

[Chris Spera]

Its really just GSM/GPRS devices that do this. My i700 NEVER exhibited this behavior. Its just my PDA2k that does this, and its on Cingular. I know other GSM cellphone owners who have this problem too; so its not just PPC-PE's either.

Its also not just GPRS. Its GSM, too. I can always tell when a call is going to come in a second or two before the device actually rings with a call if its sitting in its cradle on my desk at the office.

[Lex]

As Microsoft would say, "It's not a bug, it's a feature." :)

[MikeUnwired]

As Microsoft would say, "It's not a bug, it's a feature." :)

My Blackberry 7290 and Nokia N-Gage QD both did this with several electronic items in my life. I'll get this Morse Code thing right before a voice call comes in on my in-car XM and on my wired phone headset at the office -- a nice warning that a call is coming. I also get the interference on my home stereo if the phones are too close to the receiver.

I've just learned to live with it and like it in some respects, but I can see how it would annoy other people.

[ale_ers]

I think it also has something to do with the speakers. I have noticed in rental cars a buzz through the stereo just before a phone call, but for some reason it does not happen in my car.


Also just a bit off topic:
Its just my PDA2k that does this, and its on Cingular.
I have a 6315 on Tmobile and I was wondering if Cingular offers a similar push email system for your PDA2K. I have read their website about their xpress mail, but it does not offer a lot of info. Tmobile system only requires you to register on their website, pay an extra $20, and bam push email from my Lotus Notes address.

[Jon Westfall]

Yea, I don't find it too annoying, but as Mike Said, it does give a nice warning when a call is about to come in. Since you're the only one who notices it usually, you can seem psychic if someone is around

"I bet someone is going to call me right about now" &lt;ring> &lt;ring>

[squirrelist]

I've noticed this too with other GSM devices. about 1 second before a call or SMS comes through my speakers will go crazy and my CRT will start quivering like I just turned it on. If I'm on my landline, it will emit the same sound as the computer speakers. I've also noticed that the volume will not change if I adjust the speaker volume, but it does stop if I turn off the speakers.

This has happened with both my GSM phones and GAIT phones, but I've never seen it happen on CDMA or TDMA.

I've noticed that it gets VERY loud when I am in an area with a weak signal each time the phone strains to search for the antenna. Sometimes I'll even still hear it when up until the phone is removed 10 feet from any speaker.

The loudest I have ever seen it though, one time I was at the gym watching TV after a workout (they have a plasma screen in the lobby). I was sitting a good 10 feet from the screen (using in-unit speakers), and surfing the net. Everyone in the room kept complaining about the noise, but they had no idea what the intereference was. I had a good signal, so maybe the speakers had the perfect size coil to react with the frequency.

Maybe those pens and batteries that light up and flash when you have an incoming call put the interference to creative use.

I guess it's like what they say... "This device must accept any interference"

[Jason Lee]

I can't believe some people have just noticed this. :lol: Every mobile phone i've had for the past 5 years has done this (and i've had alot). Some more so than others, like Nextel.

:mrgreen:

[superfaron]

When I was using the iPAQ 6315 (with T-Mo service) I would have to turn my car radio down whenever I received a call because the interference was so loud and annoying over my car stereo speakers.

P.S. Switching back to a regular cell phone and buying a LOOX 720 was one of the smartest decisions of my life.

[OSUKid7]

Strangely, my Ericsson T610 does something different. I have it plugged in on my desk, near my many other electronic devices and LCD monitor. Sometimes when I receive a call, the phone doesn't ring or vibrate at all, and hours later I see I missed a call. Very annoying. :|

[Hrun]

I have to say this is not new in the UK.

If you are on the phone you can always tell if a mobile near the person you are talking to goes of.

Similarly, I worked in a shop where customers phones would interfer with the counter terminals. It was fun to tell them to answer their phone before it rang out loud.

:mrgreen:

[PoweriPaq]

Mine does it too. Even on an incoming call, but not during a call. Sometimes even on SMS but not on GPRS. But that's only with a baby monitor, not my computer speakers.

I have O2 XDA II with Cingular.

[Damion Chaplin]

Makes you wonder - if the RF on phones could do this to speakers, what could it do to other sensitive equipment?

And what might it be doing to us?

Think about how strong that signal has to be to interfere with the electrons hitting the picture tube on your monitor...

Our own thoughts are nothing but streams of electrons, they just travel along organic nerves instead of metallic wires...

Just a thought. Have a great day! :P

[seaflipper]

Yes, this happens to me all the time. It actually interferes with my landline phone. I keep my Treo on my desk at work and if I am getting an SMS, or email, or phone call it interferes with my landline and my speakers (if they are on). I used to have a CRT monitor and it interfered with that big time, but my new LCD has no issue with that.

And something VERY funny on this. I was watching the Senate on CSPAN the other day (the Bolton nomination) and every once in a while as a Senator was talking you could hear that familiar buzz. So either the Senator was getting an email on his/her blackberry or an SMS on a cell phone or whatever, but it was happening so often that it's clear that they are all big time cellphone users (not surprisingly).

I wonder how many lurk here?

[JonnoB]

Makes you wonder - if the RF on phones could do this to speakers, what could it do to other sensitive equipment?

And what might it be doing to us?

Think about how strong that signal has to be to interfere with the electrons hitting the picture tube on your monitor...

Our own thoughts are nothing but streams of electrons, they just travel along organic nerves instead of metallic wires...

Just a thought. Have a great day! :P

Sorry your honor, I did not mean to kill that person - the phone affected my brains ability to reason.

[Swordsman74]

I have a Motorola v400 from Cingular that does this. It sits in a basket on my desk which is 6-12 inches from my pc speakers. Just moments before I get a call, my speakers will make that chatterbox sound. 2-3 seconds after that, my phone will ring. I hate it... Aren't PC speakers shielded? Or is that more preventing them from affect nearby electronics, and not the other way around...?

[Janak Parekh]

It's not GSM. It's any device that runs on the 1900MHz frequency. For some reason wireless devices on that frequency can interfere with cabled analog audio systems, be it headphones or speakers. If you have a GSM/CDMA device running at 800MHz it won't interfere.

So, in other words, Sprint and T-Mobile will always "talk" to your speakers, while Verizon and Cingular will only talk to your speakers if you're in one of their 1900MHz zones.

--janak

[mmidgley]

I always thought that CMDA was pretty ok. Then I thought about the whole "rest" of the world using GSM, and wondered if it couldn't be better than pretty ok. So I switched. (Ok, Cingular's voice plan was much better than what Verizon was giving me).

But now that I have a GSM Motorola v551, I've noticed the buzzing sound in various places (home, work, wherever). I generally consider myself bright, but somehow didn't make the connection that my cell phone (or my wife's) is usually not far away and might be the cause. It certainly makes more sense than some x-files style explanation. So, I still think GSM is great, but this is definitely not a feature (and not Microsoft specific either).

m.

[that_kid]

It's not GSM. It's any device that runs on the 1900MHz frequency. For some reason wireless devices on that frequency can interfere with cabled analog audio systems, be it headphones or speakers. If you have a GSM/CDMA device running at 800MHz it won't interfere.

So, in other words, Sprint and T-Mobile will always "talk" to your speakers, while Verizon and Cingular will only talk to your speakers if you're in one of their 1900MHz zones.

--janak

No 1900 CDMA doesn't interfere with electronics the way 1900 GSM does. It's all in the modulation that GSM uses. I can put any number of my 1900 CDMA phones next to my speakers, mixer and so forth and not have any issues. If I put any of my gsm phones next to the speakers you can hear the modulated signal.

[LarDude]

Makes you wonder - if the RF on phones could do this to speakers, what could it do to other sensitive equipment?

And what might it be doing to us?

Think about how strong that signal has to be to interfere with the electrons hitting the picture tube on your monitor...

Our own thoughts are nothing but streams of electrons, they just travel along organic nerves instead of metallic wires...

Just a thought. Have a great day! :P

Sorry your honor, I did not mean to kill that person - the phone affected my brains ability to reason.

If anybody is interested, I'm selling copper-shielded brain-caps/beanies which will serve to quench these unwanted signals. The only thing is that you'll have to put up with the little whirling propeller on top.

[Janak Parekh]

No 1900 CDMA doesn't interfere with electronics the way 1900 GSM does. It's all in the modulation that GSM uses. I can put any number of my 1900 CDMA phones next to my speakers, mixer and so forth and not have any issues. If I put any of my gsm phones next to the speakers you can hear the modulated signal.
Interesting. I had 1900MHz CDMA phones "speak" to my speakers back in the day, but it's possible that 1xRTT has improved/reduced the amount of energy used to broadcast signals, and I haven't had Sprint in a while.

Actually, now that I think about it... I only got interference in a low-reception area. I know CDMA is more aggressive about power conservation, and only cranks up the power requirements when it absolutely needs it. I would assume wCDMA/UMTS will "improve" this problem on the GSM side as well.

--janak

[MitchellO]

My Mini does this too. It can be really annoying in class, as when a message (MSN) or email comes in, the speakers close to me (particularly if i am on a computer) start saying "Hey, this guys using his phone in class!!!".

And it only happens with GPRS.

[Pdaholic]

Ya know, if there were, say, an electronics store named "Electronics to Buzz" (which would be a cool name for an electronics store), then the title of this thread would have an entirely different meaning!

:D

[that_kid]

Actually, now that I think about it... I only got interference in a low-reception area. I know CDMA is more aggressive about power conservation, and only cranks up the power requirements when it absolutely needs it.
--janak

On an related note i'm changing employers and my former emloyer happened to be a cdma carrier and my new employer will be a gsm carrier. Anyhow I found out that my new employer doesn't do output power adjustments from the base stations like done with cdma. As a matter of fact the gsm carrier is running 3db hotter than any of the cdma carriers I've worked with. 3db is alot (doubling of power) so It makes me wonder if the handsets are also running hotter than cdma handsets. When I get a chance to get a gsm handset on the test bench I'll know for sure.

[phanprod]

We had a sound tech where I work who always used to rest his Nextel i1000 on the console... and if it rang, the entire sound system would make that noise. It's not specifically a GSM/GPRS thing, it's RF transmission in general, being inductively amplified by anything that will react to the proper harmonics of the transmitted signal.

Once, I was on a service call at a house where the owner claimed his household intercom would start making odd noises at random times during the day and night. Turns out Nextel had built a tower about 100 feet away from his home. The solution: ensure the master intercom unit was properly grounded, and install shielded wires in place of the old zip-wire style. That and a couple of strategically placed ferrite beads did the trick.

[sobert]

In my experience the 850 band does this the most. I used to have fun telling the guy in the next cube over that he should answer his phone before it rang. Now that I have a GSM phone that does the same thing I have to amuse myself by telling that same guy not to answer his phone because I want to hear the rest of the song...

In my experience GSM does it at the start and end of calls and once in a while when there is no call ( probably just letting the network know it is still there ). GPRS really makes a racket compared to voice.

Maybe I should record the sound and use it as a ring tone just to keep it confusing. :)

[Ryan Joseph]

Yep, my phones have done this, too. Actually, the T68i I have now doesn't do it at all and it's the first one ever. Interesting. But I think this glitch or whatever you want to call it can be pretty cool. I, too, enjoy having that psychic ability to predict when a call's coming in when others don't hear the speakers. :-)

Oh, and here's another cool thing. Try putting your phone under your CRT monitor...a second or so before a call comes in, the monitor starts flickering like crazy...kinda' cool. :mrgreen:

[gorkon280]

On ther cheap speakers at work I can definitely tell when my boss is using his nextel (his office is on the other side of the wall from my cube). You hear a a tic tic tic tic......

[alabij]

There is nothing strange about this noise. All GSM phones create this buzz especially near magnetic equipment.

It's caused by the phone transmitter going on and off rapidly in a second.

Just google "gsm phone buzz" There are a lot of engineering sites out there that talk about it.

It can actually be prevented on the manufacturer/engineering end but is relatively expensive.

[gratefuled]

My MDA II would do this, and to a lesser degree so did the PDA2K and JAM.
The most troublesome equipment combination of static issues was when I had my MDA II interior car mounted to my Audi A6. The static was very bad, and a strange thing kept happening, my left rear door electronic locking system kept failing, a total of three times. I asked Audi Service if they had problems like this with their locking systems, and they said never.
Now in a 2005 Audi and using my JAM I have yet to experience any trouble.

[TMann]

I used to charge my Nokia 6600 (GSM on T-mobile) on my desk near my desktop monitor and speakers. (My Axim cradle was also right there.) For a long time, I couldn't figure out why I occassionally heard an odd "clicking" noise coming from that area of the room. It only occured to me later that it was the Nokia affecting the speakers.

Now that I'm using a Treo 650 on Sprint, I haven't noticed the sound. Maybe it is only a GSM issue..

TMann

[caubeck]

I've experienced two probably related problems.

The first is that, if the phone is placed by the digital alarm clock, an incoming call changes all the settings on the clock, makes it beep, etc. The clock uses a couple of batteries.

The second happened a few years ago when I gave a friend's child a toy dog that barked melodies if you pressed its left paw. Incoming calls would make the dog yelp once or twice. Very annoying, and even scary if the mobile that sets it off is not in the house.

[Janak Parekh]

So much for my 1900MHz observation. ;)

BTW, phanprod: IDEN (as used by Nextel), like GSM, is a TDMA-based technology (although not the same one). My new hypothesis is that TDMA phones, irrespective of band, cause much more interference than CDMA phones.

--janak

[Darius Wey]

Mine causes my radio clock / speakers to buzz all the time. In the morning, during the day, in the middle of the night (more often than not), and I need not be receiving any data either. :roll:

And you all wonder why I'm awake at odd hours of the day. ;)

[RKosin]

Such an old story ...it's all about the frequency, first pulse in the analoge mode but now a consistent stream in digital. Each carrier has a different frequency and even a frequency for voice and data. This also explains the reluctance of medical facilities permitting cell phones. 8)

[NeilE]

This reminds me of a great story from back in the original Smartphone days.

We were getting ready to do our first major showing at GSM World Congress in, uh, either 2000 or 2001. We had hand-built internal hardware prototypes to show off the phones, as well as some Sendo devices. During the pre-show setup we were rehearsing the demos in the little booth theater, and you'd get the telltale "bip bip bip", "bip bip bip" over the booth speakers while data was transmitting. The A/V guys were apologizing all over the place and doing everything they could to get rid of the noise.

The funny part is we told them to stop, and to leave the noise as is! We figured it was 100% proof that our demos weren't fake. In fact, during our demos we specifically pointed out that you could "hear the data transmitting". :)

Ah, those were the days...

Neil

[MLO]

I noticed this when I first got my new Motorola flip phone with Cingular service.

[hartgraves]

I know this will sound weird, but it is true. My cell phone does make buzzing noises in almost any speaker that is in the vicinity, but it also does one more thing, it activates my Remington electric razor as well!! If my cell is within a foot or so of my razor, it will activate on it's own. It took me almost a year to figure out why my razor would activate in my car, then my cell would ring. Actually it will do it whenever it loses a signal then re-establishes the signal. You know, you go behind a mountain and lose your bars for a moment, then the signal comes back, every time my razor will start-up.

[Jonathon Watkins]

And you all wonder why I'm awake at odd hours of the day. ;)

Nah, not at all! :lol:

I've been moving my phone away from the PC and car speakers for years now. When I used to have a huge GSM brick it used to have to be meters away from the speakers and the car radio would always make that certain sound while it was 'talking' to the masts. As I was commuting a long distance at the time I got to hear a lot of it. The phones these days do this less, but the 'flicker' has gotten very familiar over the years. :?

[PeterLake]

Now I know why I keep missing turns when I drive! My MPX220 phone must be interfering with my "inner magnet" and sense of direction. I told my wife it wasn't my fault.

[Jonathon Watkins]

My MPX220 phone must be interfering with my "inner magnet" and sense of direction. I told my wife it wasn't my fault.

:lol: Let us know how that argument works out for you. :wink:

[cavuu]

For those that say cellphones are ok in planes, well maybe in the airlines as you are further from the cockpit. My phone causes all sorts of buzzing in the earphones of my plane making it difficult to hear any conversations that may be directed my way. At higher altitudes it seldom locks on a cell so I turn it off.