Mobile-Review.com Compares VGA Pocket PCs

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/vga-comparing-en.shtml' target='_blank'>http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/re...paring-en.shtml</a><br /><br /></div><i>"A year ago there was just one Pocket PC with 640x480 VGA screen, this was the legendary Toshiba e800, which stayed unique a year long. In the late 2004 - early 2005 we can speak about the competition in the Hi-End PDA segment. One can choose among 4 models at least. Today in our review we extended the usual structure of our tests on productivity and battery life and change them visually....See the list of handhelds with VGA-screens, which are commercially available or expected to be released soon."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/parekh-20050219-VGAPocketPCs.jpg" /><br /><br />This is perhaps the most extensive comparison of VGA Pocket PCs I've ever seen, complete with detailed pictures, battery life measurements with different batteries, performance numbers and more. My only nit is that this article focuses on the new units; my e805 isn't included, and I would have been curious to see how my e805's extended battery stacks up against the competition. Nevertheless, if you're looking to buy a VGA Pocket PC, this is a definite read.

[ricksfiona]

Excellent review! Almost too much information.

It seems that each of the PPCs all have something really good to offer. It's a matter of what you really need.

[Duncan]

But of course it is the Loox 720 that gets the top ranking... (of course...!) :D

[kozak]

Nice review, but I still feel they didn't give the Dell Axim X50v justice. It is the best for playing movies, is smaller then the rest, and thinner (very important for me) and sells for under $400 in the US.

The price alone is worth it. Although the battery life is lacking on it, it still has enough for average use.

But great review nontheless.

[ctmagnus]

imho, the inclusion of a PDF viewer, a presentation viewer as well as Pocket Informant in ROM in the hx4700 help to make that unit stand out above the rest.

[Duncan]

No doubt an Asus a730 owner will be along shortly to explain how *it* was robbed...! :lol:

[kozak]

I didn't realize that the Asus units only have bluetooth 1.1. That means you can't use them with bluetooth stereo headphones. That is a HUGE minus for me. Makes me feel better with my current unit.

[jngold_me]

Nice review, but I still feel they didn't give the Dell Axim X50v justice. It is the best for playing movies, is smaller then the rest, and thinner (very important for me) and sells for under $400 in the US.

The price alone is worth it. Although the battery life is lacking on it, it still has enough for average use.

But great review nontheless.

Um, pardon me:

Asus 730W: 4.62 x 2.87 x .66 in. Weight: 5.99 ounces.
Dell: 4.7 x 2.9 x .7 inches. Weight: 5.9 oz

So, the Dell is smaller than the rest? I don't think so.

[dragonhand]

The review was sure chock full of interesting and useful information about all of the models. But the end result is to reconfirm my feeling that it's best to wait for what may be around the corner after WM 2005 is released. Each one the current crop of VGA devices in their own way has at least one significant negative. We can hope that the next round will see at least one or two of the competitors resolve their respective weaknesses. Until then, I'm quite happy to stick with my Asus A716.

[ADBrown]

Um, pardon me:

Asus 730W: 4.62 x 2.87 x .66 in. Weight: 5.99 ounces.
Dell: 4.7 x 2.9 x .7 inches. Weight: 5.9 oz

So, the Dell is smaller than the rest? I don't think so.

Those specs are completely wrong. The Axim is 4.68 x 2.87 x 0.629. 0.7 thick is incorrect. Besides which, the Asus is 0.67 thick, not o.66.

[mr_Ray]

imho, the inclusion of a PDF viewer, a presentation viewer as well as Pocket Informant in ROM in the hx4700 help to make that unit stand out above the rest.
Actually, I considered PI in ROM to be a positive in favour of the hx4700 until I thought about it. As soon as you upgrade to the latest version (as everyone should), you're doubling up on memory usage. Personally I prefer as little as possible to be preinstalled, so that I'm not wasting storage space on something that will be superceded or not used.
Of course, it's no bad thing for a newbie user that doesn't go installing stuff anyway.


Those specs are completely wrong. The Axim is 4.68 x 2.87 x 0.629. 0.7 thick is dead wrong. Besides which, the Asus is 0.67 thick, not o.66.
They're both essentially the same size, either way. Unfortunately the Dell gains it's size by having a child size portion of battery. ;)
Regarding the movie performance - remember not to get carried away with benchmarkmania. Unless watching them at 2x speed is your thing, anything greater than about 120% playback performance (to smooth over bumps) is a superficial benefit.

Also worth pointing out is the link in the article to a whole boatload of comparison photos (http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/vga-comparing-live-en.shtml) to get a better idea of how the PPCs compare to each other in the flesh.
[/url]

[cgavula]

There's another mistake in the review:

It lists in one of the tables as the HP having SIR/FIR/CIR IRDA support. In fact, it only has SIR/FIR. Unless they recently added it, it does not have CIR.

--Chris

[Menneisyys]

No doubt an Asus a730 owner will be along shortly to explain how *it* was robbed...! :lol:

Well, nothing is black-and-white. Installer/dabbler's comments at http://www.firstloox.org//forums/showthread.php?t=3161&amp;page=2 and Rod3's comments at http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&amp;postid=758746#post758746 has some more, interesting info on the A730.

[jonathanchoo]

Nice review, but I still feel they didn't give the Dell Axim X50v justice. It is the best for playing movies, is smaller then the rest, and thinner (very important for me) and sells for under $400 in the US.

The price alone is worth it. Although the battery life is lacking on it, it still has enough for average use.

Well the review was done in Russia so you have to take into account what prices we in Europe are given:

X50v - £345 (last price before being withdrawn) £330 (Expansys)
A730 - £340 (Expansys)
hx4700 - £390 (Clove)
Loox 720 - £375 (Clove)

The X50v is still the cheapest but not as wide a margin as in the US.

A bigger price difference when compared to palmOne's T5. In the US the X50v sells for roughly the same price as the T5 which was why alot of palmOne users were angry because 'they can get a WiFi VGA Dell for the same price'.

In UK the T5 sells for £245 a full £100 (US$190) difference to the European Dell.

[NLS]

Nice one. I disagree on (very) few things though.

1- One bad for my device (which OF COURSE came first). I don't think it has FIR.

2- 4700 is in no way second... third JUST MAYBE, but second not (I mean look at the size... it's like a 90ies PDA).

3- It should be stressed more than 64MB for hi-end is rubbish.

4- Since I used three of those models and irrelevant of the SPB tests, 720 still felt the fastest in everyday use (I don't know why or how).

5- Extended battery for 720 exists, it's jist not made by FSC (doesn't count?).

6- Bigger screen size means bigger PDA and less DPI... I don't know how this is "better" than smaller size with same clarity (as in 4700 vs 720). I have myopia and still I find 720 screen VERY VERY VERY clear to read. Also brightness levels is a software thing. Nothing prohibits of someone making a settings program with 256 brightness levels (I think 256 are the real levels), after all anything more than 10 is in fact more than enough.

7- One more bad (for now, will turn to good some time I guess) for my device. It has TWO speakers... the one on top for VoIP and the one at the bottom right for loudspeaker. Still there is no software that takes advantage of the top speaker.

8- 720 is the smallest of'em all; and this is objective... cannot be subjective. Why the test mention the 730? Why others speak of the 50v?
(all rounded to closest) ->

- 730 is 144.6 cm^3
- monstrous 4700 is 150.3 something that doesn't show the truth (because at least it's very thin, else because we are talking about depth, even if it was a tiny mm bigger in depth -still thinner than 730 and 50v- it would be 160.4 cubic centimetres...)
- 720 is 133.5 and the smallest (by far)
- 50v is 146.8 and not even second... of course because of it's very round bottom 146.8 is not "real", but nothing that either changes the REAL space needed to hold it on your hand or pack it, nor something that would give 50v the first place in size (after all if we are to take into account more details, then the side recesses of 720 make it even smaller than 133.5)

looking at the dimensions more realistically... 730 is the shortest, but height is not something really important when you have something in your palm... 720 has the less width, which IS important when holding something in your palm OR pocketing it somewhere, the others are VERY close (close to being indifferent) with the exception of 4700 of course which may not fit comfortably in all palms (maybe HP executives have big hands and big pockets... erm I guess this IS the case)... last AND least the depth... here 4700 is the "winner" in the most useless dimension for PDA (esp. when the difference from the fattest is just 1.7 MILIMETERS and 0.3 mm -almost immeasurable- from the second)... but it's a nice trick if you want to make your statistics better (since making it thinner will make the HxLxD product much smaller)... and HP DOES know of tricks

9- An extra addition of the last minute... touchpad SUCKS (this should be made more clear)... I have a whole argument about this but just to sum up (no time, I have to go) ->

- STUPID to have touchpad on a... touch screen device (DOOOOH!)
- the touchpad has different aspect ratio than the screen (PDA screen being tall unlike laptops, touchpad being wide) which DOES NOT ALLOW for "natural" movement of the cursor like it was on the real screen (something that you can at least do on laptops)
- the touchpad is useless for everything needing fast feedback
- the touchpad is one LESS was to control the PDA (since touching is ALREADY one... and cursor keys would be A SECOND)
- the touchpad "tapping by accident" that many people using laptops suffer (so they buy mini mice) is also here both for directions and "clicks"
- no feedback WHATSOEVER

...people get this: HP made one more MARKETING trick, many people just fell for it like they do with those companies... most of them will never accept they were wrong

I SIGN HERE AND DECLARE that this is the FIRST AND LAST HP (or WHATEVER brand) device that will have a touchpad (except if they have a really big stock). This will be the proof enough for me, 2-3 years from today.

This is sent both to PocketPCThoughts AND the review people.

Be good.

[Menneisyys]

Well the review was done in Russia so you have to take into account what prices we in Europe are given:

X50v - £345 (last price before being withdrawn) £330 (Expansys)
A730 - £340 (Expansys)
hx4700 - £390 (Clove)
Loox 720 - £375 (Clove)

Yeah, they should have cited other prices too. For example, in Austria/Germany/the Switzerland, they're as follows:

hx4700 - http://geizhals.at/eu/a113177.html - 434e (these are recon. units! Non-recon units start at 560e)
PL720 - http://geizhals.at/eu/a113984.html - 509e
PL718 - http://geizhals.at/eu/a133978.html - 495e
x50v - http://geizhals.at/eu/a131421.html - 449e
a730w - http://geizhals.at/eu/a134340.html - 438e
(e830 - http://geizhals.at/a120238.html - 520e)

[jngold_me]

Um, pardon me:

Asus 730W: 4.62 x 2.87 x .66 in. Weight: 5.99 ounces.
Dell: 4.7 x 2.9 x .7 inches. Weight: 5.9 oz

So, the Dell is smaller than the rest? I don't think so.

Those specs are completely wrong. The Axim is 4.68 x 2.87 x 0.629. 0.7 thick is incorrect. Besides which, the Asus is 0.67 thick, not o.66.

Sorry dude, but unless you know more than each of the above vendors then I would have to say you are wrong. Regardless, we're talking fractions of an inch. The Asus 730 is still one of the smallest VGA PPC's.

Dell: http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/pda?c=us&amp;cs=19&amp;l=en&amp;s=dhs

Asus: http://usa.asus.com/products/pda/A730/hard_spec.htm

[Dyvim]

Those specs are completely wrong.

Well, not technically wrong but they are a bit misleading since Asus specs are rounded to 1/100 of an inch and Dell specs are rounded to 1/10 of an inch. Much better to look at metric specs (inches are such a useless unit anyway).

Either way the differences are minute. Heck, I have the biggest of them all (e830) and am very pleased with it.

[dhpss]

With all these wonderful hardware! here come the shortfalls of MS software WM2003 or WM2003SE:

1-BT &amp; WiFi are not 100% functional, unless using plain standard plugins/program (they share a small commun memory segment?)

2-WMP9/WMP10 are not 100% functional (key function programing not working, library discovery/update returns incorrect infos...)

3-VGA, SE_VGA, OZVGA, True_VGA....what a mess!

4-Incompatibility with most software

5-Software even considered VGA compatible often collide and make the system very unstable..

Viva WM2005! (and pray we can get the upgrade!...)

[shawnc]

The review was sure chock full of interesting and useful information about all of the models. But the end result is to reconfirm my feeling that it's best to wait for what may be around the corner after WM 2005 is released. Each one the current crop of VGA devices in their own way has at least one significant negative. We can hope that the next round will see at least one or two of the competitors resolve their respective weaknesses. Until then, I'm quite happy to stick with my Asus A716.

This is the way I was left feeling as well. But reading about VGA devices (from this and other threads as well) I get the impression that my criticisms of HP have been somewhat without merit and due to my lack of understanding. Maybe some of you can help me out. For the life of me I couldn't understand WHY HP seemed to run away from the design of the 4150. But now my impression is that it is more of a techology issue. It seems as though VGA consumes considerably more battery power, so a thicker and bigger device is needed to power them. Is that an accurate (albiet non-technical) assessment? If so, then maybe HP is not as misguided as I have been thinking and there is still hope that I will be able to find a VGA device that won't require me to comprimise in terms of form factor (once the technology catches up).

I still don't understand the insistence in placing dual slots in ALL of these devices since there is likely a considerable market for SD only slots that are thinner and smaller, but again, there may be some technological factor that I'm simply unaware of.

I want VGA sooooooo bad. I'm just not willing to give up the form-factor of my 4150 to get it.

[ADBrown]

This is the way I was left feeling as well. But reading about VGA devices (from this and other threads as well) I get the impression that my criticisms of HP have been somewhat without merit and due to my lack of understanding. Maybe some of you can help me out. For the life of me I couldn't understand WHY HP seemed to run away from the design of the 4150. But now my impression is that it is more of a techology issue.

Not really. VGA does take considerably more power, but as evidenced by the X50v it is possible to build a VGA PocketPC in a similar form-factor. Not quite the same, but similar. HP's abandonment of the 4150 design has more to do with them abandoning the designs of HTC.

I still don't understand the insistence in placing dual slots in ALL of these devices since there is likely a considerable market for SD only slots that are thinner and smaller, but again, there may be some technological factor that I'm simply unaware of.

One, you need space to accomodate the battery anyway. Two, these are all high-end devices and are expected to have all the bells and whistles. Three, the market that would *prefer* a single slot versus a similarly designed dual-slot device is not really that large.

[ADBrown]

They're both essentially the same size, either way. Unfortunately the Dell gains it's size by having a child size portion of battery. ;)

It's funny how tolerant people become of size when they feel like it. I've heard people screeching bloody murder over 0.03 of an inch, but being 0.04 thicker with the same size battery is a-ok if your preferred device is on the wrong end of the specs.

Sorry dude, but unless you know more than each of the above vendors then I would have to say you are wrong.

Actually, I do know better. The 0.629 figure was arrived at by a guy using digital calipers on his Axim. And the rest of the figures were taken from my personal measurements of the units.

[NLS]

[quote=dragonhand]But now my impression is that it is more of a techology issue. It seems as though VGA consumes considerably more battery power, so a thicker and bigger device is needed to power them. Is that an accurate (albiet non-technical) assessment?

Not really... in the same review you can very easily see that 720 is the smallest yet has the second best battery.

[Duncan]

Sorry dude, but unless you know more than each of the above vendors then I would have to say you are wrong.

Actually, I do know better. The 0.629 figure was arrived at by a guy using digital calipers on his Axim. And the rest of the figures were taken from my personal measurements of the units.

You appear to be missing the point - all the manufacturers use rounded figures - digital measurements of each will no doubt reveal differences when measured accurately. You want to compare a digital measurement of one device to the manufacturers measurements of the others. How then can you say for certain how the Dell compares to others?

[Johnny_S]

is there a place to get a pocket loox 720 in the US, besides expansis? Maybe my google is broke,

[ADBrown]

You appear to be missing the point - all the manufacturers use rounded figures - digital measurements of each will no doubt reveal differences when measured accurately. You want to compare a digital measurement of one device to the manufacturers measurements of the others. How then can you say for certain how the Dell compares to others?

I think you missed my relevant point--I'm comparing it against non-rounded measurements I personally took of the A730W, along with the iPaq hx4700.

[Duncan]

You appear to be missing the point - all the manufacturers use rounded figures - digital measurements of each will no doubt reveal differences when measured accurately. You want to compare a digital measurement of one device to the manufacturers measurements of the others. How then can you say for certain how the Dell compares to others?

I think you missed my relevant point--I'm comparing it against non-rounded measurements I personally took of the A730W, along with the iPaq hx4700.

You didn't say that though... I didn't miss your point, you didn't make it...!

Mind - I find the digital measurement you have for the Axim to be somewhat odd - huge difference from the 0.67" claimed by Dell...!

[surur]

Arguing about millimetres is really senseless. I have the Loox 720, and I think its a lovely device, with the best all-round feature set. However there is no one device for everyone. In my understanding:

The Dell is best for digital video, due to the accelerator. This may become an increasing advantage as more optimised software gets released. Its also the best if your funds are limited. However this is its only advantages.

The HP is the unit you want if you want a large screen, magnesium case and long battery life. Its also by far the priciest.

The Loox has USB hosting and 128MB ram. To some these are important. To others these are not compelling.

The Asus is similar to the Loox, but has a much smaller battery.

The Toshiba is similar to the Loox and HP combined, but appears to be from a slightly older generation (and is probably a bit cheaper due to this).

If expandability is important to you, the Loox is the best. If you download digital video (which is usually illegal btw) then the Dell is the best. If you just have to have a magnesium case, you need the HP.

Thats about it (IMHO)

Surur

[jlp]

Amen 8)

[Skoobouy]

Gah, the Dell's battery life--atrocious. I thought it was supposed to be better than the Asus.

Well, I guess that means I'll have to wait until I have $600 to blow or something else comes a long that's competitive with the Dell's price.

[asuspocketpcw]

8) I'm a PocketPC newbie but I sure love my ASUS 730. The VGA screen is Wonderful! The sound and display really make it for me. The dual slots is great in case you want a plug-in plus still have memory. The built-in camera lets me document anything I might run into at any time. The iR is good enough to control my TV from 30ft. The bluetooth will let me have a remote gps antenna. I'm waiting to get more experience with the battery life before I decide to spring for the 1800mah--at least I have a choice. I'll be glad when they get away from powered memory but until then, I'm glad I didn't wait any longer!

[Menneisyys]

is there a place to get a pocket loox 720 in the US, besides expansis? Maybe my google is broke,

There're several of them. See http://www.firstloox.org/forums/showthread.php?t=909 , http://www.firstloox.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2370 , http://www.firstloox.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1744 and http://www.firstloox.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1951 for more info.

[Phillip Dyson]

Personally I think that not including the Toshiba e830 must have been laziness. Yes I know that its a little harsh, but if you're going to say that you're doing a VGA comparison, then you should understand that your biting off alot.

Perhaps they should have stuck to VGAs available in the US. But then they couldn't compare the Loox. Of course we can't have that.

I'm not really sure about their reasoning for eliminating it.

As for the price, I paid less than $600 (including shipping and handling) for mine.

Why can the e830 get any respect. :(

[Duncan]

Personally I think that not including the Toshiba e830 must have been laziness. Yes I know that its a little harsh, but if you're going to say that you're doing a VGA comparison, then you should understand that your biting off alot.

Perhaps they should have stuck to VGAs available in the US. But then they couldn't compare the Loox. Of course we can't have that.

I'm not really sure about their reasoning for eliminating it.

As for the price, I paid less than $600 (including shipping and handling) for mine.

Why can the e830 get any respect. :(

They leave it out because it is now old and tired - a redressed e800 that even lacks some of the features of the older model and is the last 'cash-in' gasp of a firm that is leaving the market. The other VGA devices leave it in the dust. Harsh maybe - but accurate...

[Skoobouy]

I may have spoken too harshly about the Dell.

Reading the review very carefully, it seems that the Loox does indeed have the best average feature-set. But the Dell is by no means bad. In fact, none of them are.

I wouldn't be surprised if the poor MP3-mode battery life of the Dell (relative to the A730 and its 1100mAh battery) had something to do with the Intel 3d accelterator. So it's a tradeoff. I got excited about the Dell again after examining the speed results. Man, this thing really kicks. Moreover, it's "Reading Mode" battery life beats the A730, maybe due to a lower backlight setting. The "Maximum Load" battery life is not significantly worse per mAh than the other models.

I would call the Dell "The Sprinter": Super speed, not much stamina. I would recommend it (+ the extended battery, with which it is still price-competitive) for people into high-tech games and movies; real processor-pushers who charge daily.

The HP seems to bring back all the advantages people missed from the bygone Jornada 540 series--sturdy, metal, flip cover, no-nonsense functionality. We'll name it "The Executive."

The Asus is a music-lover's dream, it seems. It doesn't have any other truly outstanding features, besides the phenomenal gaming buttons and maybe the camera. The emulator fan is going to have to choose between break-neck speeds (HP and Dell) or comfortable buttons (Asus and FS). Although the Asus can clock down to 100 MHz all by it's lonesome, I doubt it is unique in this once you take account of Pocket Hackmaster and other clock speed proggies.

If you really look at the data, the Asus and the Loox are solid competitors for the well-rounded device; I think Mobile-Review shouldn't have shunted the Asus all the way to the bottom.


The Asus's screen is bigger, after all, if not better quality.
Even with the small battery, Asus's MP3 battery life is competitive with the Loox; with the "battery sleeve," it beats all models but the HP by a huge margin.
It's the only other PPC besides the Loox to feature more than 90 MB of useable RAM.
In every benchmark (except the processor index) the Asus beats the Loox handily.
It's cheaper than the Loox.


The only real downsides to the Asus are the lack of CIF and its Bluetooth 1.1, which won't be important to a lot of people.

So there. Somebody defended the Asus. Who loves you, Asus owners, who loves you?!

[Phillip Dyson]

Personally I think that not including the Toshiba e830 must have been laziness. Yes I know that its a little harsh, but if you're going to say that you're doing a VGA comparison, then you should understand that your biting off alot.

Perhaps they should have stuck to VGAs available in the US. But then they couldn't compare the Loox. Of course we can't have that.

I'm not really sure about their reasoning for eliminating it.

As for the price, I paid less than $600 (including shipping and handling) for mine.

Why can the e830 get any respect. :(

They leave it out because it is now old and tired - a redressed e800 that even lacks some of the features of the older model and is the last 'cash-in' gasp of a firm that is leaving the market. The other VGA devices leave it in the dust. Harsh maybe - but accurate...

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

It doesn't explain why Mobile-Reviews has excluded the device. I have not heard any announcement of them leaving the PDA market altogether. That again, while may turn out to be true, is still supposition. Their price reference doesn't seem accurate. Atleast in Canada.

[Duncan]

It doesn't explain why Mobile-Reviews has excluded the device.

Ummm... yes... it does...!

[Menneisyys]

They leave it out because it [e830] is now old and tired - a redressed e800 that even lacks some of the features of the older model and is the last 'cash-in' gasp of a firm that is leaving the market. The other VGA devices leave it in the dust.

Its screen may not be the best, contrast-wise, cmpared to the hx4700/PL720 screens, but, after all, it's 4", and its BT indeed is pretty sub-par (read: non-Widcomm, meaning for example no HID support) and the device itself is pretty big/heavy, but, apart from the washed-out screen and the lame BT stack, the e830 is a decent device. Its battery life is clearly better than that of the Asus and the Dell, it has USB host, it has BT 1.2, 128M RAM etc. So, I don't think it's sub-par device. If it were sold here in Europe at a competitive price, I'd consider getting one because of the 4" screen.

[Menneisyys]

I have not heard any announcement of them leaving the PDA market altogether.

They have only left the U.S. market.

[Menneisyys]

The HP seems to bring back all the advantages people missed from the bygone Jornada 540 series--sturdy, metal, flip cover, no-nonsense functionality. We'll name it "The Executive."

Well, I still wouldn't drop it :) I've dropped my j525 several times. Its screen survived the drops. I don't think the hx4700 would also survive those drops :)

[Menneisyys]

The Asus's screen is bigger, after all, if not better quality.

The size difference is almost invisible. The quality difference? Well, I prefer contrasty screens, even on the account of offset, a bit yellowish whites. It's just as most people like turning up bass and tremble on their Wi-Fi. It introduces un-evenness to the frequency response, but people still prefer it (except for hard-core audiophiles).

Even with the small battery, Asus's MP3 battery life is competitive with the Loox; with the "battery sleeve," it beats all models but the HP by a huge margin.

Personally, I very rarely listen to mp3's on my PDA's. (I prefer my huge, 60Gbyte hard disk-based player, the Mambox P-353 for playing music.) So, what about games? I've read over at PocketMatrix ( http://www.pocketmatrix.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20659 ) that playing Bejeweled with no sound (!) depleted the battery by 10% every 10 minutes (run the same game on the iPAQ or the Loox and you'll see the difference - I've done this on my Loox). Reading books? Also the above-linked PM thread: 2 and a half hours in power saving mode. With the Loox: 7-8 hours at least; the iPAQ, even more. Surfing the Internet via Wi-Fi and using a TO SA BT keyboard at the same time? The Loox consumes 25% power in an hour with the above configuration, with the Wi-Fi power saving mode switched off.

You can't debate the A730 (and the Dell) battery is/are very weak compared to the Loox / iPAQ if you use it with Wi-Fi.

Battery sleeve? Who wants to put a brick in his shirt pocket? :)

[Johnny_S]

There're several of them. See http://www.firstloox.org/forums/showthread.php?t=909 , http://www.firstloox.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2370 , http://www.firstloox.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1744 and http://www.firstloox.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1951 for more info.

Thanks for those links, but they all seem to point to expansys. :cry:

Not that they are bad, i would just like to see a different supplier.

[Phillip Dyson]

I have not heard any announcement of them leaving the PDA market altogether.

They have only left the U.S. market.

Exactly. While they may indeed leave the market world-wide, it would have been nice to see it compared to the other devices.

I'll let it drop, however, for the sake of the thread. A troll seems to be following me. :devilboy:

[Fishie]

The Asus's screen is bigger, after all, if not better quality.

The size difference is almost invisible. The quality difference? Well, I prefer contrasty screens, even on the account of offset, a bit yellowish whites. It's just as most people like turning up bass and tremble on their Wi-Fi. It introduces un-evenness to the frequency response, but people still prefer it (except for hard-core audiophiles).

Even with the small battery, Asus's MP3 battery life is competitive with the Loox; with the "battery sleeve," it beats all models but the HP by a huge margin.

Personally, I very rarely listen to mp3's on my PDA's. (I prefer my huge, 60Gbyte hard disk-based player, the Mambox P-353 for playing music.) So, what about games? I've read over at PocketMatrix ( http://www.pocketmatrix.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20659 ) that playing Bejeweled with no sound (!) depleted the battery by 10% every 10 minutes (run the same game on the iPAQ or the Loox and you'll see the difference - I've done this on my Loox). Reading books? Also the above-linked PM thread: 2 and a half hours in power saving mode. With the Loox: 7-8 hours at least; the iPAQ, even more. Surfing the Internet via Wi-Fi and using a TO SA BT keyboard at the same time? The Loox consumes 25% power in an hour with the above configuration, with the Wi-Fi power saving mode switched off.

You can't debate the A730 (and the Dell) battery is/are very weak compared to the Loox / iPAQ if you use it with Wi-Fi.

Battery sleeve? Who wants to put a brick in his shirt pocket? :)

Actually I think he means the extended battery.

The extended battery doesnt add any bulk to the device, instead it replaces the entire backside of the device and uses the extra space as battery.

[Skoobouy]

Well, all right. Even given the weak included battery, the Asus is still cheaper and faster than the Loox, has more memory than the iPaq and the Axim, and if you get the extended battery, it's life is simply intimidating.

The Loox is a clear winner if you want a long-lasting battery in a svelte case with comfortable buttons right out of the box; but you do sacrifice a smidgeon of performance for that. Just a smidgeon though. I don't want to sound like I'm making a big deal out of this. Don't hurt me Loox fans!

The Axim (with the proper tweaks) breaks records with its multimedia performance, but you pay dearly in battery life. Fortunately, the added price of the extended battery still keeps the Axim relatively cheap, even if it only offers "acceptable" battery life rather than "piss poor" life.

The MyPal is somewhere in between these two; against the Loox it has performance and price in its favor. Against the Axim it has slightly better battery life (MUCH better extended battery life), better buttons, and double the internal RAM.

These machines really do have very different priorities. It's a little silly debating them, IMO.

[Menneisyys]

I think he means the extended battery.

The extended battery doesnt add any bulk to the device, instead it replaces the entire backside of the device and uses the extra space as battery.

Excerpt from the review: "I'd note, the jacket in Asus model adds greatly to the weight (almost 300 g) and the size of the PDA, they are hardly allowable."

300g, with only double the battery life as that of the 170g PL720? Well, it's indeed a tradeoff.

[Fishie]

Auch, I stand corrected

[The PocketTV Team]

The GAPI BitBlit benchmark in this review is meaningless, because the Dell Axim was tested using the "Tweaked GAPI", which in fact configures the device in QVGA and tests BitBlits directly in memory, while the other tests were done with the standard GAPI, which, on VGA devices, will do full pixel-doubling on the entire display surface after each access.

So the result of the test is totally meaningless, i.e. it is like comparing apples and oranges. The Dell x50v is *not* 8 times faster than the other devices if "real" BitBlits tests are done, i.e. using direct frame buffer access with each devices (i.e. using GETRAWFRAMEBUFFER which replaces GAPI and allows direct frame buffer access on VGA devices).

By the way, PocketTV also support the Intel 2700G and ATI video hardware accelerators in those VGA devices. I don't know if playing VGA-resolution video can be called "real PDA productivity", though, as the article says. Maybe it is the opposite of productivity :)

It is correct that the Intel 2700G video accelerator is faster than the ATI Imageon 3200 for decoding video.

[midtoad]

[quote=jngold_me]

Besides which, the Asus is 0.67 thick, not o.66.

Wow, an error of 0.01 inches. That sure is serious. Thanks for pointing it out to us!

[Rod3]

I see the vast differences in WiFi accessibility software included hasn't been addressed by this group. I own both the Asus and the Loox. WiFi on the Loox is practically useless, even with a couple of rather pricey WiFi softwares added in, and the free WiFiFoFum as well. I can only connect at home on the Loox. And that's sitting right next to the router. The Asus, on the other hand, connects easily and quickly at local hotspots and other places that are not advertised as hotspots. :wink:
It all depends on what your needs are, for sure. I always carry the Asus with the extra battery fully charged, or use the extended battery. That's the bad part, and as far as my usage is concerned, the only downside of the Asus. The Loox is comfortable to hold, has a pretty, but yellow, screen, feels solid. The Asus is a little more clunky, has a much brighter, clearer, true-colored screen, and feels a little creaky. You have to make concessions with either device.

[ADBrown]

You didn't say that though... I didn't miss your point, you didn't make it...!

Whoops. You're right, I can't believe I missed that. Sorry.

Gah, the Dell's battery life--atrocious. I thought it was supposed to be better than the Asus.

It is, much better. You might want to check the comparative tests listed under Battery:

http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=2401

[Menneisyys]

I see the vast differences in WiFi accessibility software included hasn't been addressed by this group. I own both the Asus and the Loox. WiFi on the Loox is practically useless, even with a couple of rather pricey WiFi softwares added in, and the free WiFiFoFum as well. I can only connect at home on the Loox. And that's sitting right next to the router. The Asus, on the other hand, connects easily and quickly at local hotspots and other places that are not advertised as hotspots.


BTW, several PL720 users at FirstLoox ( see the threads http://www.firstloox.org//forums/showthread.php?t=3213 , http://www.firstloox.org//forums/showthread.php?t=3198 and http://www.firstloox.org//forums/showthread.php?t=3220 ) reported that the Wi-Fi acquisition time has been greatly reduced and the stability enhanced by the new flash ROM upgrade.

[Rod3]

Menneisyys, I didn't know about the ROM upgrade. How do I get to that? What a relief that would be to be able to use WiFi a little more easily! That's the biggest flaw in the Loox, for me. Thanks for this info!

edit: on the other hand, after reading the posts, it looks very iffy. I can't get the link to the update to work, and I'm going to wait and see. I think mine already has that date and number. Still rotten WiFi, but glad it helped those others. I'm still waiting for a fix, and hope it's out there somewhere.

[Menneisyys]

I can't get the link to the update to work

The direct link is http://download.fujitsu-siemens.com/Download/ShowDescription.asp?SoftwareGUID=DBAC25CB-B8EC-41EC-B750-07BAA21D0767

[Menneisyys]

edit: on the other hand, after reading the posts, it looks very iffy. I can't get the link to the update to work, and I'm going to wait and see.

I haven't personally tested if the Wi-Fi enhancements some FirstLoox'ers have spoken of are real. It, however, greatly enhances the SD reading speed.

[Rod3]

Thanks for the link. I'll just wait and see. I don't have a problem with read speed on the sd card, anyhow. If it's slow, I surely can't tell it.

[Menneisyys]

The extended battery doesnt add any bulk to the device, instead it replaces the entire backside of the device and uses the extra space as battery.

Are we speaking of this one?

http://www.pocketmatrix.com/jello/1800mah730%20004.jpg

(see http://www.pocketmatrix.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19608 )