Dead Mens Secrets -> Archaeology debunking today's Prehistoric teaching

[Typhoon]

This is an e-book on a lot of Archaeology facts that seem to show that the prehistory eras of human history were not dominated by idiotic cavemen who dragged their women by the hair, but these eras were dominated by many very advanced civilizations who were in many ways more technologically advanced than we are. The book provides lots of evidence to back up this discovery. It is surprising what the evidence shows. The kind of technology and knowledge that was prevalent in prehistoric times was astounding: nuclear weaponery, airplanes (and other air-vehicles, and possibly helicopters), huge cruise liners, modern-like clothes fashions, (I think, electro-magnetic) levitation, studies in aerodynamics, very advanced medical studies/technologies, and much more.

I think I paid $30 for the e-Book and a subscription for weekly emailed archaelogical discoveries.

www.beforeus.com

www.archaeologyanswers.com

Has anyone read this before? I just finished and I can't stop thinking about what I just read. I keep comparing it to what was taught in high school. What do you guys think?

[rocky_raher]

What do you guys think?

I think you discovered a major league leg-puller.

[Jorgen]

Sounds too good to be true. Why should the scientists hide these things? That would be deliberate fraud!

I am in no doubt fraud occurs in science, but if it involves a group of scientists spread all over the world, it is never deliberate fraud, but rather science by consensus (a group of scientists agree on something, they can't prove because the science is not solid enough, such as global warming, dangers of passive smoking - typically by referring to results from computer models).

Jorgen
PS. This is not the forum to discuss "global warming" etc.

[Deus]

Maybe they finally got to the point where they realized too much technology was killing their earth and their people? hmmmmmm Hope we get to that point soon!

[Wiggster]

Maybe they finally got to the point where they realized too much technology was killing their earth and their people? hmmmmmm Hope we get to that point soon!

Great, now Jason's going to have to register PointyRockThoughts.com when our Pocket PCs get destroyed with the rest of our technology :lol:

As for this guys "facts"? :roll: I won't get into it, suffice to say, I think he's a quack.

[rocky_raher]

I've just had a stroke of genius!!

We should forward the above-mentioned website to Dan Brown, as a suggested source of info for his next Robert Laingdon novel. After basing best-sellers on the Illuminati and the Priory of Scion, he could produce an entire series of novels on these advanced ancient technological societies!

No need to thank me.

:-) :-) :-)

[Wiggster]

No need to thank me.

Don't worry, I wasn't planning on it.

Funny stuff :D

[Sven Johannsen]

I can see current evidence of technologies that have been lost to us. There are indications that a few short years ago a PPC existed with a functional integrated flip cover. Jornada I believe they called it. Seemingly the skills that created it have mysteriously disappeared, and have yet to be re-created by modern science.

[Typhoon]

Yea it does sound too good to be true. I felt the same way, and still somewhat feel the same way now...but you have to read the book to understand. After reading all of the evidence, there is not much to conclude other than the theory or conclusion they provide. I know it's really odd, but I was highly skeptical about it until I read it. lol and Yea, it would make a really good movie.

[Wiggster]

Yea it does sound too good to be true. I felt the same way, and still somewhat feel the same way now...but you have to read the book to understand. After reading all of the evidence, there is not much to conclude other than the theory or conclusion they provide.


Then it's not scientific, or informative. It's a persuasive piece of propoganda. How much did you say you paid for that? $30? Yea, he's definitely profitting off that. It's like an expensive tabloid.

What are the examples of some evidence, by the way? There's no way I'm spending any money on a egregiously erroneous collection of lies passed off as a conspiracy theory that pervades throughout the entirety of science.

[Typhoon]

Examples? I got some problems w/my laptop that might get in the way, but let me see if I can pull up something.

[Typhoon]

Yea it does sound too good to be true. I felt the same way, and still somewhat feel the same way now...but you have to read the book to understand. After reading all of the evidence, there is not much to conclude other than the theory or conclusion they provide.


Then it's not scientific, or informative. It's a persuasive piece of propoganda. How much did you say you paid for that? $30? Yea, he's definitely profitting off that. It's like an expensive tabloid.

What are the examples of some evidence, by the way? There's no way I'm spending any money on a egregiously erroneous collection of lies passed off as a conspiracy theory that pervades throughout the entirety of science.

Well, I probably used the wrong words...too good to be true? Not too good. Its not like a sales gag after reading it. The books supports its conclusions very well. But I'll see what I can put together as an example...

[dMores]

i wanted to post the first reply yesterday, but the forum was dead slow so i let it be.

anyways ... i believe you when you say it's well written and makes you think about it ... but i can say right from the start: it's a fraud.

think about it ... if those people were as advanced as we are today, or even more, how come that society went to hell? how come we don't see any leftovers from that era? why do they warn about going into some weird caves, but show pictures of the INSIDES and a person standing in the "doorway" ?

how does he prove that they had drills that turned twice as fast as today's rock drills? where are those ocean liners they had?
there would have to be a large number of artefacts that would be visible to the general population of this planet, simply when they dig a hole in their backyards for their pools. "oh honey, i hit another one of those anit-gravity-belts"

let me guess ... all the evidence was lost when those ancient advanced people blew themselves up with their nuclear bombs, right ?
come on.
don't get suckered into that type of world-conspiracy mumbo jumbo.
you might end up believing george double-you blew up the twin towers himself, and that aliens are homosexual since they enjoy anal probing so much.

[Fishie]

I can see current evidence of technologies that have been lost to us. There are indications that a few short years ago a PPC existed with a functional integrated flip cover. Jornada I believe they called it. Seemingly the skills that created it have mysteriously disappeared, and have yet to be re-created by modern science.

The new Zaurus like PPC, the new 2000 series Ipaq, A few PalmOS machines(PalmOne as well as Clie), several Zauri.

[Fishie]

Kinda sounds like Scientology, does the book talk of aliens and the fact that they are still amongst us and we have to rid the world from em at all?

[Fishie]

The writers of the book clearly do not posses good website design technology: http://www.archaeologyanswers.com/

They seem to be stuck in 95.

[Jorgen]

My tombstone will read GAME OVER.

Fishie, you mean: My tombstone will read "You LOST, game over!"

Jorgen

[Fishie]

My tombstone will read GAME OVER.

Fishie, you mean: My tombstone will read "You LOST, game over!"

Jorgen

I dont get it.

[Typhoon]

let me guess ... all the evidence was lost when those ancient advanced people blew themselves up with their nuclear bombs, right ?
come on.


lol. Yea, that is the part of explanation. But the other part is the belief that the worldwide Biblical flood destroyed the civilizations as well. As for these two major destructions, there is a lot of evidence support for it. Many ancient cities which have been destroyed only in ways possible by nuclear destruction. As for the flood, there is major support for that too.

Sorry, the book is in my laptop...I can't boot Win XP and I got to send it into tech support to fix the ethernet port soon, so I won't be able to access the book for anyone yet.

[Jorgen]

I dont get it.

If you are dead, you lost. :)

[Fishie]

Ah yes

[szamot]

This is great, let’s have a scientific test to determine the average archeological knowledge of this group.
Can anyone say what eras were the Pyramids and the Sphinx built in? They are not from the same historical period you guys do know that right? OK. I will make this easier, never mind the historical periods, just give me the year difference between the two.

Now I might not agree 100% with all the findings in that e-publications, but certainly it does propose some interesting theories. When you really think about it is not that far fetched. I must say I smirked at most of the remarks in this forum, because while most of you try to laugh and discredit what Typhoon had to say, yet I bet that most of you are regular bible thumpers? Yes, No, Maybe? So you will not believe in just anything, but you whole heartedly believe in nothing. Speaking of fraud, lets start with your good book first shall we?

Now, is it too much to ask for to just listen to what other people want to say. I am sure your good book would tell you to be nice to one another. And finally let’s remember that after all discoveries are made by adventurers, not skeptics.

[szamot]

The writers of the book clearly do not posses good website design technology: http://www.archaeologyanswers.com/

They seem to be stuck in 95.

....so having Flash on your site makes you intelligent. That is more preposterous than anything on “that site”

[Fishie]

Dude relax.
You are comparing something that is supposed to be scientific to a faith based belief system.
Doesnt that sound a teensy bit hipocritical?

[szamot]

Dude relax.
You are comparing something that is supposed to be scientific to a faith based belief system.
Doesnt that sound a teensy bit hipocritical?

I disagree, religion is simply a suspension of disbelief, science is a system of belief. I know plenty of people to whom the bible is not only a source of daily inspiration but also the absolute book of world history. If it isn’t in the bible it can't be true and it has to be evil. Religion, simply put, is science demystified to the masses, which served its purpose some 2000 years ago. To many it still serves that purpose, but to others science has provided the necessary explanations of thing such as why does the moon turn red, where does the thunder come from and why it rains when it does. That is all I am saying.

[Fishie]

What you are stating here is an OPPINION.
And the things the threadstarter talks about here are all things pretty much discounted by all serious scientists, archeaologists, Historians etcetera.
As I mentioned before, it sounds more like scientology then anything else.

In short this is not science, all it amounts to is a guy saying that the lack of real evidence backing up his claims is evidence in itself that he is right and the entire scientific world is wrong.

Its like me arguing that you are a mass murderer becouse the lack of victims and missing persons is proof that you have slaughtered dozens.

Its silly, its pointless and in defending it you are guilty of the same sin religious zealots are guilty of.

This book is not science, its some fruitloop exploiting easily impressed people with big fairy tales in order to line his pockets.

Just like Frank Dux did when he toured the world saying he was an ex navy seal one day, a CIA undercover agent the next and told tall tales about how he became the first American ever to win the underground Kumite championship in Hong kong, he convinced so many people with his lies that he started to believe them himself and people made a movie based on true events from the lies he told.
Bloodsport.

This is the Bloodsport of science if you will.

[Jeff Rutledge]

Folks, this conversation is dancing very close to the edge of the "no politics, religion, etc." rule. Please take a step back.

Thanks.

[szamot]

Well we often judge and radicule that which we do not understand. One man's religion is another man's poison.

amen

[dMores]

what bother me about this ebook is not really the subject. i can immagine it to be a good read, IF the auther didn't try to enforce it as being the absolute truth.

that's the problem with a lot of books ... they pretend to be journalistic when in fact they are manipulative.
just talk about the "facts", and let the reader make up his own mind about it.

anyway, i think this topic has moved very close to religion, but the book is actually not about religion (as far as i can tell) but more of a "everyone's ignoring the truth". i'd put it in the same drawer as those "aliens are among us" and "the government is out to get you" authors.

[Typhoon]

What you are stating here is an OPPINION.
And the things the threadstarter talks about here are all things pretty much discounted by all serious scientists, archeaologists, Historians etcetera.

lol you have got to be kidding me. Discounted? Do you know what is even in the book? I would of never gave the book a thought after reading it and starting a forum IF IT WASN'T backed by serious scientists, archaeologists, historians, etc. You have got to read it. It just so happens that many of the professions, of which you claim, do not even want to have any thought of considering the conclusion because it supports the Biblical event of the Great Flood (even many cultures supported the same event) which discounts a lot of the theories and history supported by evolutionary thinking only. Things like this make them itch. I'm not trying to promote any religion here...just a new idea based on Archaelogical facts (that is mainly what the book is based on). Gotta read it first before totally bombing it.

[dMores]

yes, typhoon, that is why archeologists ignore facts like dinosaurs, neanderthals and primordial soup, because they're not in the bible.

oh, and astronomers never mentioned the big bang, because that contradicts the 7 day earth creation rule.

btw ... don't believe anyone who tells you the earth is round. those satellite photos are all photoshopped !

:|

[surur]

Isnt $30 a bit too expensive for an ebook? Plus a subscription per month also. Sounds like a scam to me.

Typhoon, I would never buy a book at that price if I did not have an interest in the subject already. You must have some grounding and interest in this subject before, and be at least "susceptible" to the message.

Now regarding the previous technological civilization, I'm surprized that we dont see out planet littered with their articacts. You do know metal detecting is a hobby, dont you. I find it unbelievable that we can find the bones of homonids, but not the rings and belt buckles of the "ancients" Or maybe even their wrist watches and mobile phones.

10 000 years will never be enough to erradicate evidence of the gigantic damage and urban sprawl we inflicted on the earth. In every field in the future we will likely run into the foundations of some home while ploughing. There must be 3 billion people buried in the earth within the last 50 years. Those bones will not just disappear (especially the ones in the lead-lined coffins). Our garbage heaps will outlive our civilization by 100 000 years. Out tin cans will be around for a very long time. I wonder how a technological civilization would be able to support itself without digging up most of the mineral deposits (which we ourselves are depleting even now).

Now maybe an advanced civilization planted de novo on earth would not leave a legacy of exploitation and polution, but if they developed naturally over the years they could not avoid leaving their mark.

I am not going to spend $30 to read this book, but I would appreciate it if you quoted the most convincing argument for us to research further. I am alarmed however that you believe a global flood could have taken place. I thought that possibility has been debunked ages ago due the simple fact that there is not enough water on the earth. Also if multiple nuclear weapons have been used there should be radiological residues that was easy to detect.

Just relate one example (it does not have to be in detail) as you seem to be quite impressed by this, and I shall see if I find it convinving.

Surur

[dMores]

right on.

immagine our civilization going extinct. even when we nuke the planet, we're bound to leave traces for the next couple of millenia.

unless they were aliens and decided to leave, packing up their things and leaving earth the way it was before they arrived.

oh man. been watching too many episodes of the X-Files ;)

anyway, i'd read the book if it weren't for the price.

[Typhoon]

Isnt $30 a bit too expensive for an ebook? Plus a subscription per month also. Sounds like a scam to me.
**** Subscription comes w/the
eBook..

Typhoon, I would never buy a book at that price if I did not have an interest in the subject already. You must have some grounding and interest in this subject before, and be at least "susceptible" to the message.
**** Susceptible? please elaborate..

Now regarding the previous technological civilization, I'm surprized that we dont see out planet littered with their articacts. You do know metal detecting is a hobby, dont you.
**** yes. while you go get your metal detector bring a shovel too, there is a lot of digging to discover every single piece of evidence in existence...not only that but metal will rust, corrode, & dissolve, esp. through thousands of years. That is why mostly artifacts of stone are the only ones left.

I find it unbelievable that we can find the bones of homonids, but not the rings and belt buckles of the "ancients" Or maybe even their wrist watches and mobile phones.
**** what I wrote above explains why

10 000 years will never be enough to erradicate evidence of the gigantic damage and urban sprawl we inflicted on the earth. In every field in the future we will likely run into the foundations of some home while ploughing. There must be 3 billion people buried in the earth within the last 50 years. Those bones will not just disappear (especially the ones in the lead-lined coffins). Our garbage heaps will outlive our civilization by 100 000 years. Out tin cans will be around for a very long time. I wonder how a technological civilization would be able to support itself without digging up most of the mineral deposits (which we ourselves are depleting even now).
**** I don't get what you are saying here

Now maybe an advanced civilization planted de novo on earth would not leave a legacy of exploitation and polution, but if they developed naturally over the years they could not avoid leaving their mark.
**** Right, & that is obvious by the evidence left behind. But the many thousands of years that included a global flood, wars, weather, other natural occurrences, & lots of other human activities will take care of most of the evidence . I don't know if you have head of this before, but there have been many countries who chose to demolish ancient ruins just so that they can build to further economic development.

I am not going to spend $30 to read this book, but I would appreciate it if you quoted the most convincing argument for us to research further.
**** Sorry, I would like to but I can't as of starting this thread only because the laptop (which has the eBook) is not working. Even as of right now, I am writing this message on my PDA.

I am alarmed however that you believe a global flood could have taken place. I thought that possibility has been debunked ages ago due the simple fact that there is not enough water on the earth.
**** ? I don't remember all the evidence, but there is a "lot" of geological evidence to support a worldwide flood. Not only that, but there is enough water in the sea & in the air too. There is a good explanation for this (probably findable on the web)

Also if multiple nuclear weapons have been used there should be radiological residues that was easy to detect.
****True, that is why various ancient ruins though out the world have been found to also be extremely radioactive (only from nuclear radiation) & have been scorched, melted, & crystallized only in ways possible by nuclear power.

Just relate one example (it does not have to be in detail) as you seem to be quite impressed by this, and I shall see if I find it convinving.
Surur

[Typhoon]

yes, typhoon, that is why archeologists ignore facts like dinosaurs, neanderthals and primordial soup, because they're not in the bible.
****LOL. You are clearly the most insulting out of this thread. What exactly are you stating here? It couldn't logically be In reply to my message before this one...if you say so, then you must have greatly misunderstood me. Is that arch. evidence ignored? No. There are explanations from a Biblical stance as well (which wouldn't debunk a Biblical account of history). But I don't want to try to explain this, mostly because you wouldn't understand it since you seem to be Biblically illiterate. You can find explanations on the web. But let's not turn this into a religious discussion that would end this thread.

oh, and astronomers never mentioned the big bang, because that contradicts the 7 day earth creation rule.

btw ... don't believe anyone who tells you the earth is round. those satellite photos are all photoshopped !
**** The Flat-Earth stance was held & established by the Catholic Church --only-- who is notorious for scandels...and the stance of Earth being in the center of the univese. In fact, ancient records clearly show that many cultures believed in a round Earth view (even views of Earth not being perfectly round). You clearly seem offended by my last message, but it sounds like you greatly misunderstood me.
:|

[surur]

Isnt $30 a bit too expensive for an ebook? Plus a subscription per month also. Sounds like a scam to me.
Subscription comes w/the eBook..

Typhoon, I would never buy a book at that price if I did not have an interest in the subject already. You must have some grounding and interest in this subject before, and be at least "susceptible" to the message.
Susceptible? please elaborate..
Most people spend money on their interests. You must have thought the things discussed must be plausible to start with.

Now regarding the previous technological civilisation, I'm surprised that we dont see out planet littered with their artifacts. You do know metal detecting is a hobby, dont you.
yes. while you go get your metal detector bring a shovel too, there is a lot of digging to discover every single piece of evidence in existence...not only that but metal will rust, corrode, & dissolve, esp. through thousands of years. That is why mostly artifacts of stone are the only ones left.

I find it unbelievable that we can find the bones of hominids, but not the rings and belt buckles of the "ancients" Or maybe even their wrist watches and mobile phones.

what I wrote above explains why

10 000 years will never be enough to eradicate evidence of the gigantic damage and urban sprawl we inflicted on the earth. In every field in the future we will likely run into the foundations of some home while ploughing. There must be 3 billion people buried in the earth within the last 50 years. Those bones will not just disappear (especially the ones in the lead-lined coffins). Our garbage heaps will outlive our civilisation by 100 000 years. Out tin cans will be around for a very long time. I wonder how a (ancient) technological civilisation would have been able to support itself without digging up most of the mineral deposits (which we ourselves are depleting even now).
I don't get what you are saying here


I am saying we would not be able to eradicate the minutia of our civilisation from the earth currently even if we wanted to. I see no reason why the ancient would be able to either.

Now maybe an advanced civilisation planted de novo on earth would not leave a legacy of exploitation and pollution, but if they developed naturally over the years they could not avoid leaving their mark.
Right, & that is obvious by the evidence left behind. But the many thousands of years that included a global flood, wars, weather, other natural occurrences, & lots of other human activities will take care of most of the evidence . I don't know if you have head of this before, but there have been many countries who chose to demolish ancient ruins just so that they can build to further economic development.

I am not going to spend $30 to read this book, but I would appreciate it if you quoted the most convincing argument for us to research further.
Sorry, I would like to but I can't as of starting this thread only because the laptop (which has the eBook) is not working. Even as of right now, I am writing this message on my PDA.

I am alarmed however that you believe a global flood could have taken place. I thought that possibility has been debunked ages ago due the simple fact that there is not enough water on the earth.

? I don't remember all the evidence, but there is a "lot" of geological evidence to support a worldwide flood. Not only that, but there is enough water in the sea & in the air too. There is a good explanation for this (probably findable on the web)

When i type global flood into google, the first link on the page is all about debunking it. You claim being unable to recall any of the arguments without being able to refer to the text, but surely you should be able to at least give the gist of it in outline form. Where did the water come from, where did it go? Did it cover all the earth. Was Noah involved. I find you claim for a global flood even more increlible (and easier to refute logically) than the ancient civilisation theory to start with, and I hope its not essential to your argument.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html


Also if multiple nuclear weapons have been used there should be radiological residues that was easy to detect.

True, that is why various ancient ruins though out the world have been found to also be extremely radioactive (only from nuclear radiation) & have been scorched, melted, & crystallized only in ways possible by nuclear power.

Just relate one example (it does not have to be in detail) as you seem to be quite impressed by this, and I shall see if I find it convincing.
Surur

[dMores]

You have got to read it. It just so happens that many of the professions, of which you claim, do not even want to have any thought of considering the conclusion because it supports the Biblical event of the Great Flood (even many cultures supported the same event) which discounts a lot of the theories and history supported by evolutionary thinking only.
i must have read this the wrong way.
yes, i misunderstood you, and i'm very sorry about that.

but i wasn't being insulting ... i was trying to be sarcastic.

guess that didn't go well :cry:

[Typhoon]

You have got to read it. It just so happens that many of the professions, of which you claim, do not even want to have any thought of considering the conclusion because it supports the Biblical event of the Great Flood (even many cultures supported the same event) which discounts a lot of the theories and history supported by evolutionary thinking only.
i must have read this the wrong way.
yes, i misunderstood you, and i'm very sorry about that.

but i wasn't being insulting ... i was trying to be sarcastic.

guess that didn't go well :cry:

No big deal.

[Typhoon]

Isnt $30 a bit too expensive for an ebook? Plus a subscription per month also. Sounds like a scam to me.
Subscription comes w/the eBook..

Typhoon, I would never buy a book at that price if I did not have an interest in the subject already. You must have some grounding and interest in this subject before, and be at least "susceptible" to the message.
Susceptible? please elaborate..
Most people spend money on their interests. You must have thought the things discussed must be plausible to start with.
**** Ohhhhh ok. I see what you mean now... I don't remember for sure. I came to website by accident & bought the book because it sounded really interesting. Truth is that the only type of reading lit. I read are comp. tech. books (besides college course lit.).

Now regarding the previous technological civilisation, I'm surprised that we dont see out planet littered with their artifacts. You do know metal detecting is a hobby, dont you.
yes. while you go get your metal detector bring a shovel too, there is a lot of digging to discover every single piece of evidence in existence...not only that but metal will rust, corrode, & dissolve, esp. through thousands of years. That is why mostly artifacts of stone are the only ones left.

I find it unbelievable that we can find the bones of hominids, but not the rings and belt buckles of the "ancients" Or maybe even their wrist watches and mobile phones.

what I wrote above explains why

10 000 years will never be enough to eradicate evidence of the gigantic damage and urban sprawl we inflicted on the earth. In every field in the future we will likely run into the foundations of some home while ploughing. There must be 3 billion people buried in the earth within the last 50 years. Those bones will not just disappear (especially the ones in the lead-lined coffins). Our garbage heaps will outlive our civilisation by 100 000 years. Out tin cans will be around for a very long time. I wonder how a (ancient) technological civilisation would have been able to support itself without digging up most of the mineral deposits (which we ourselves are depleting even now).
I don't get what you are saying here


I am saying we would not be able to eradicate the minutia of our civilisation from the earth currently even if we wanted to. I see no reason why the ancient would be able to either.

Now maybe an advanced civilisation planted de novo on earth would not leave a legacy of exploitation and pollution, but if they developed naturally over the years they could not avoid leaving their mark.
Right, & that is obvious by the evidence left behind. But the many thousands of years that included a global flood, wars, weather, other natural occurrences, & lots of other human activities will take care of most of the evidence . I don't know if you have head of this before, but there have been many countries who chose to demolish ancient ruins just so that they can build to further economic development.

I am not going to spend $30 to read this book, but I would appreciate it if you quoted the most convincing argument for us to research further.
Sorry, I would like to but I can't as of starting this thread only because the laptop (which has the eBook) is not working. Even as of right now, I am writing this message on my PDA.

I am alarmed however that you believe a global flood could have taken place. I thought that possibility has been debunked ages ago due the simple fact that there is not enough water on the earth.

? I don't remember all the evidence, but there is a "lot" of geological evidence to support a worldwide flood. Not only that, but there is enough water in the sea & in the air too. There is a good explanation for this (probably findable on the web)

When i type global flood into google, the first link on the page is all about debunking it. You claim being unable to recall any of the arguments without being able to refer to the text, but surely you should be able to at least give the gist of it in outline form. Where did the water come from, where did it go? Did it cover all the earth. Was Noah involved. I find you claim for a global flood even more increlible (and easier to refute logically) than the ancient civilisation theory to start with, and I hope its not essential to your argument.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html

**** sorry, normally the name "great deluge" is used (if I spelled it right)

Also if multiple nuclear weapons have been used there should be radiological residues that was easy to detect.

True, that is why various ancient ruins though out the world have been found to also be extremely radioactive (only from nuclear radiation) & have been scorched, melted, & crystallized only in ways possible by nuclear power.

Just relate one example (it does not have to be in detail) as you seem to be quite impressed by this, and I shall see if I find it convincing.
Surur

[tregnier]

This discussion is kind of like having a heated discussion surrounding the physics behind Superman's flying ability. :crazyeyes:

[Typhoon]

You have got to read it. It just so happens that many of the professions, of which you claim, do not even want to have any thought of considering the conclusion because it supports the Biblical event of the Great Flood (even many cultures supported the same event) which discounts a lot of the theories and history supported by evolutionary thinking only.
i must have read this the wrong way.
yes, i misunderstood you, and i'm very sorry about that.

but i wasn't being insulting ... i was trying to be sarcastic.

guess that didn't go well :cry:

No big deal.

[dMores]

that comparison is not that far fetched ... after all, the website says that the book also reveals that the early people were able to levitate things.

:)

you know what? i'm actually very interested in this book.
i'll probably not buy it, because 30 bucks is a lot of money, and i have no interest in the "life-time-spam" that i'd probably get. but if i stumble across it ...

;)

[rocky_raher]

This discussion is kind of like having a heated discussion surrounding the physics behind Superman's flying ability. :crazyeyes:

Superman certainly violates the Law of Conservation of Energy. He can't get the energy needed for all his feats from the food he eats. His flying around probably violates the Laws of Conservation of Linear and Angular Momentum as well.

[tregnier]

Not to mention several laws of thermodynamics. Although maybe he has some of the characteristics of electrons as characterized in quantum physics i.e. if you see 'em, they ain't there.

"There are more things in the universe...."

[szamot]

This discussion is kind of like having a heated discussion surrounding the physics behind Superman's flying ability. :crazyeyes:

Superman certainly violates the Law of Conservation of Energy. He can't get the energy needed for all his feats from the food he eats. His flying around probably violates the Laws of Conservation of Linear and Angular Momentum as well.
not unless he has figured out a way of metabolizing zero state energy. Then he could.

[Jorgen]

not unless he has figured out a way of metabolizing zero state energy. Then he could.

He probably has learned that from Santa Claus, who must be using similar technology since he manages to deliver billions of presents in a very short time without making any noise or showing up on radar screens.

Jorgen

[JA]

He probably has learned that from Santa Claus, who must be using similar technology since he manages to deliver billions of presents in a very short time without making any noise or showing up on radar screens.

Jorgen

NORAD tracks Santa (http://www.noradsanta.org/) every year! Get your facts straight! :twisted: JA

[Jorgen]

Heh, so they do! I bow to your superior knowledge!

Jorgen

[Typhoon]

In situations like this, there is more dissing and insulting than any real respectable discussion. Are you guys kids or something?

[Fishie]

My dad(may God have mercy on his soul, may he rest in peace) always told me to give up videogames and get a real job, these days I make my living writing about videogames so I am sure that for some I remain a kid :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

So does the book mention 0X or not?

[Jorgen]

than any real respectable discussion

I think the discussion has been over for som time. As I said based on ten years in academia: one academic here and there may cheat, but not many scientists from many universities, except in the form of bringing forward consensual science, i.e. they agree on something they cannot prove (but believe in), based on computer modeling.

Scientists do not have much of a problem with changing 180 degrees if proof exists - there are many examples of that in all branches of science. But I simply do not believe that any scientist would throw away evidence of a lost culture - on the contrary, finding a such wold make him worldfamous.

Jorgen

[Typhoon]

My dad(may God have mercy on his soul, may he rest in peace) always told me to give up videogames and get a real job, these days I make my living writing about videogames so I am sure that for some I remain a kid :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

So does the book mention 0X or not?

Aliens? No. Not that I can remember. Ever heard of the ancient Sumerian culture? They talked beings from the sky who came down and intermingled w/them and their history. Many other ancient civilizations talk about similiar events in their history. The book makes many mentions of ancient civilizations, but I don't remember the book talking about these events. Actually I think I might lose the book if I end up losing all the data on the harddrive.

[dMores]

well then you should email it to us, for backup reasons

;)

to save your data ... get a new hard drive, take the old one out, hook it up to another machine, extract all the data you can, save to cd-rom or DVD and move to your new hard drive.

actually ... i have no idea how to hook up a laptop hard drive to a desktop computer. but i'm sure there are adapters.

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Just google "2.5 hdd enclosure", without the commas. Plenty of options available at reasonable prices.

[Typhoon]

well then you should email it to us, for backup reasons

;)

to save your data ... get a new hard drive, take the old one out, hook it up to another machine, extract all the data you can, save to cd-rom or DVD and move to your new hard drive.

actually ... i have no idea how to hook up a laptop hard drive to a desktop computer. but i'm sure there are adapters.

lol Yea, that is what I have been trying to do...for some reason, when I do this, the computer is constantly scanning the harddrive and never finishes (therefore, I can't access it).

[Typhoon]

Just google "2.5 hdd enclosure", without the commas. Plenty of options available at reasonable prices.

got mine on eBay

[Paragon]

I can see current evidence of technologies that have been lost to us. There are indications that a few short years ago a PPC existed with a functional integrated flip cover. Jornada I believe they called it. Seemingly the skills that created it have mysteriously disappeared, and have yet to be re-created by modern science.

I only read this thread as far a Sven's post, after reading I felt no need to continue on. It says it all. :werenotworthy:

Dave

[Typhoon]

I can see current evidence of technologies that have been lost to us. There are indications that a few short years ago a PPC existed with a functional integrated flip cover. Jornada I believe they called it. Seemingly the skills that created it have mysteriously disappeared, and have yet to be re-created by modern science.

I only read this thread as far a Sven's post, after reading I felt no need to continue on. It says it all. :werenotworthy:

Dave

In your opinion, what was so great about the Jornada?

[Paragon]

In your opinion, what was so great about the Jornada?

At the time it was the only device to have an integrated CF slot, removable battery, and a flip lid. The internal CF slot gave it expandability without a cumbersome sleeve. The removable battery gave it the ability to be used for an infinite amount of time, and the flip lid like the CF slot kept the form factor intact so that it was easy to slip it into your pocket and take it anywhere. A friend has one and uses it daily. It is amazing how effective it still is even with the devices available in today's market. :)

Dave

[surur]

In your opinion, what was so great about the Jornada?

At the time it was the only device to have an integrated CF slot, removable battery, and a flip lid. The internal CF slot gave it expandability without a cumbersome sleeve. The removable battery gave it the ability to be used for an infinite amount of time, and the flip lid like the CF slot kept the form factor intact so that it was easy to slip it into your pocket and take it anywhere. A friend has one and uses it daily. It is amazing how effective it still is even with the devices available in today's market. :)

Dave

Sniff :mecry: That was a lovely pocketpc. I still curse the person who stole mine. At least HP is bringing flip lids back.

Surur

[sylvangale]

:google:

Jonathan Gray is a "biblical" archeologist. He takes history references from the Christian bible and backs it up with unsubstatiated "scientific" claims and collects money from unsuspecting religious peoples who are all too happy to fund further "scientific" research to back up the good book.

He is a contemporary of "biblical" archeologist Ron Wyatt:
http://www.isitso.org/guide/wyatt.html

Ron Wyatt was an amateur archaeologist whose work has gained wide attention in Christian circles before and after his death in 1999 because his efforts were claimed to yield tangible "proof" of many of the events in the Bible. His findings were presented by himself and others in person and on tape to many church groups in the US and around the English-speaking countries of the world. They gained particular popularity in Australia and New Zealand through the efforts of Wyatt associate Jonathan Gray.


The Claims

Ron Wyatt claimed to have discovered (or positively identified--at least to his own satisfaction--for the first time in modern history) a large number of locations and objects in the Middle East which would corroborate the events of the Bible. Some lists of such discoveries by Wyatt include close to 100 such claims made by him. The most significant of these are:

Noah's Ark

"Anchor stones" used by Noah for the ark

The Post-Flood house and tombs of Noah and his wife

The location of Sodom and Gomorrah

Sulfur balls from the burning of Sodom and Gomorrah

The point of the Israelites' crossing of the Red Sea in Exodus

Debris from the pursuing army of Pharoah at the bottom of the sea

The site of the Biblical Mt. Sinai

A chamber at the end of a maze of tunnels under Jerusalem containing artifacts from Solomon's temple

The Ark of the Covenant

The stones on which God carved the Ten Commandments

The exact site of the crucifixion of Jesus

An earthquake crack under the crucifixion site made at the time of the death of Jesus

Blood of Jesus, which dripped down this crack onto the Mercy Seat of the Ark of the Covenant, located in a chamber directly beneath the cross

Many of Wyatt's claims have been challenged by numerous investigators, including archaeologists, scientists, Bible teachers and commentators, Israeli officials, and others with an interest in establishing or refuting those claims.

Wyatt and his promoters have, in general, refused to answer the questions raised by such detractors. Instead, they have most often chosen to address the questions in general by calling into question the sincerity or honesty of the questioner. They have typically done this by categorizing these individuals into several groups, all implied to have less than honest and reasonable causes for their attempts to refute Wyatt's claims:

Atheists who don't want to admit the truth of the Bible

Disgruntled rival archaeologists looking for glory for themselves

Religious people who disagree with Wyatt's theology and thus his conclusions about the significance of some of his "finds"

Disgruntled religious people who resent that the glory for discovery is going to a Seventh Day Adventist, rather than "one of their own"

In addition, Wyatt claimed in a number of instances that he could not reveal certain facts and evidence that would substantiate some of his claims because he was privately asked--or ordered--by unnamed Israeli authorities to withhold that information as it was believed to be "dangerous" for Israeli security.

[Typhoon]

:google:

Jonathan Gray is a "biblical" archeologist. He takes history references

The book explains findings that you can read in many other (non-Christian) books too. You never took a look at the book, huh? It's not a Christian book. Supposidly, Gray was an athiest before making his findings (though I have not read anywhere to doubt it). The claims of archeological discoveries that Ron Wyatt was making sounds a little far fetched, and yea...he would have to prove himself pretty well. But DMS is not a book about archaelogy and Christianity.

[quote]
Jonathan Gray is a "biblical" archeologist. He takes history references from the Christian bible and backs it up with unsubstatiated "scientific" claims and collects money from unsuspecting religious peoples who are all too happy to fund further "scientific" research to back up the good book.
[/qoute]

But how did you get biblical archeologist? Just because he knew him, you are suggesting that DMS is a book taking biblical references and backing them up w/archeological finds? How was he an associate...did you find this out? If you read the book first, you will find it much differently. You've got to be kidding me with your qoutes here. You're blaming Johnathon Gray for Ron Wyatt's bad work here?? LOL aw man. The things you guys do just because you guys might hate the fact that some just "might" appear to be Christian in any way. Read the book first. It's not that bad.

[Jon Westfall]

This sounds like it might get a little heated. Remember to keep the arguments about objective things, not a person's character or motivation for posting. So far so good :way to go:

Thanks.

[sylvangale]

Jonathan Gray and Ron Wyatt are con men. There are never ending sources of refutations to their claims available... if you look. :google:

Jonathan Gray is also the author of Ark of the Covenant (which aired on television...). He was a self-professed atheist until he began to examine the claims of Ron Wyatt and converted to Christianity and began promoting his archeological findings... such as the convenant of the ark, the lost cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, the site of Mt. Sinai, etc.

From the New Zealand Cult Watch:

Wyatt, Ron/Wyatt Archaeological Research. Caution Con artist/scam. Ron Wyatt (deceased) was a self-styled "Indiana Jones" of biblical archaeology. He has been described as a "professional con man" for his false and self-aggrandising claims of having discovered all sorts of things like Noah's Ark, Mrs Noah's grave (with a fortune in treasure), anchor/drogue stones from Noah's Ark, the real location of the Ark of the Covenant, the real site of Sodom and Gomarrah, the real Mt Sinai, a genuine sample of Jesus Christ's blood with a DNA test showing he didn't have an earthly father, etc. All his claims have been found to be either quite bogus (example refutation) or completely lacking evidence, but have been spread in New Zealand by the sale of books, video tapes and a speaking tour by Jonathan Gray. Researcher Gray Amirault is quoted as having said "WAR (Wyatt Archaeological Research) is a Christian con game. Ron Wyatt is either very psychologically ill or one of the greatest liars I have ever come across." Some of Ron Wyatt's claims have more recently been repeated by Bob Cornuke. The claimed Noah's Ark site was soundly refuted by this Answers in Genesis article in 1992 when Ron Wyatt was plugging it. Note that the only reason Ron Wyatt hasn't been given a Danger rating is that his claims are not likely to do any damage other than to people's wallets.
http://www.cults.co.nz

A review of the book in question (amazon.com):

Jonathan Gray and his think tank of associates come up with a different theory. A very different theory. Gray suggests that there was a worldwide flood, that wiped out all mankind. There was Noah and his ark, and everything that went with it. Not only was the original world population wiped out, but a super civilization with technology beyond our own was as well. They had planes, they had ships, they had machinery, they had electricity. They may even have travelled in space. Post-flood, the descendants of Noah tried to recreate past glories, but whose memory, knowledge and lifespans soon dwindled away. Mankind used to live a lot longer. We are not becoming more intellegent, we are not evolving for the better, says Gray, we are getting worse, in accordance with Newton's second law of thermodynamics rather than Darwin's theory of Evolution. Aliens were not the giants of lore, we were!

It's a Christian perspective, yes, but the very, very interesting thing is that Jonathan Gray was not a Christian when he started. At the time of writing the book, you can tell he's still trying to make sense of it as much as his readers. With a very enjoyable, easy going writing style, he uses a combination of speculative fiction, stories of his archaeological findings, reasoning and stockpiles of evidence to prove his point - be they survivng artifact anomalies, written descriptions, or interpretation of myth, legend and oral folklore from all around the world. Even if you're not convinced, you'll learn a lot about world cultures on the way. There are some very interesting pieces of myth and folklore out there.

Like the previous reviewer mentioned, the sparse amount of footnotes is a bit frustrating. On almost every footnote there was, I scuffled back to the end of the book to read more, eager to know where this evidence had come from. The important thing is that Gray has gathered the evidence from the many books on ancient anomalies, the archaelogical journals and articles on "the unexplained" and his own findings, and brought them together into an easy to read, easy to flick through book. The evidence tables are very easy on the eye, you can scan through and find the evidence you want. Think of it as a compendium of evidence, a quick reference point. If you are searching for more, the bibliography Gray provides is quite substantial. I must get my hands on some of the books he mentions. There are very few pictures, though thanks to the internet, you can find pics of many of the things Gray mentions. Just punch it in to a search engine, you're sure to find some of it.

I'd recommend this book to those interested in archaeology, Christians looking for some evidence to counter the case for evolution and back up their faith, and to lovers of the unexplained. It's another theory to add to the pot. Very tantalizing hints indeed. It's my favourite book addressing ancient anomalies, and I have read it time and time again.

[sylvangale]

If any one was interested in a more Christian point of view of Jonathan Gray's work take a look at AnswersinGenesis.org a.k.a. Creation Magazine.


Ark discovered! … again?
Dubious claims by Christians

19 April 2002

It is with great sadness that, from time to time, we need to make our supporters aware of disreputable claims ‘doing the rounds’ in Christian circles. Recently the dubious claims of Ron Wyatt and Jonathan Gray surfaced once again in Australia.

At great expense (and no doubt funded by the donations of sincere people), an eight-page newspaper insert recently appeared in the major newspapers in Australia—the Gold Coast Mail and the Melbourne Herald Sun.

Between them Gray and Wyatt (the latter now deceased) have claimed to have discovered Noah’s Ark, Sodom and Gomorrah, the Ark of the Covenant, and the grain pits of Joseph. Other sensational claims include the discovery of Christ’s actual blood cells and the Ten Commandments on stone tablets—held together by gold chains no less.

We would be excited, along with all Christians, if these claims were true. Unfortunately, when asked to produce the artifacts, the discovers give only excuses. Checks on some of their claims have produced a trail of falsehood after falsehood. (See ‘Has the Ark of the Covenant been found?’)
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/0419arkdiscovery.asp