More News On HP's Mobile Messenger

[Janak Parekh]

Here's a quick roundup of interesting articles on this potential Treo-killer:<br /><li> Lisa over at MobileTechReview met with HP at their Mobility Summit and had an opportunity to play with the unit, and <a href="http://www.mobiletechreview.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Board=news&Number=190\52">has clarified various points</a>; amongst other things, the unit will have dual slots, won't have WiFi, and is supposed to have EDGE and <i>real</i> integrated GPS with TomTom software.<br /><li> iPAQabilities has <a href="http://www.ipaqabilities.com/iaforums/viewtopic.php?t=521">a few more pictures</a> of the unit. I particularly like the in-hand shot -- it looks tiny!<br /><li> And as for dimensions, the folks at engadget <a href="http://engadget.com/entry/1234000913030286/">did some detective work</a> by superimposing a SD card on the pictures and came up with a guess. See what you think.

[piperpilot]

The lack of WIFI will be the undoing of the device, IMHO. I was salivating at the thought of an EDGE enabled device with GPS and dual slots, but no WIFI is a deal killer for me.

[powder2000]

I didn't like the looks, and now with the news of no wifi and included gps I am really wondering who the market for this is? What kind of mobile worker would not use WiFi? Data plans are just not cheap enough yet to pass on the wifi, imho. I would put money on it also that HP put a 240x240 screen rather than 320 x 320, you just watch.

[Janak Parekh]

Well, not only does MobileTechReview suggest that it's 240x240, I believe WM2003SE has support for 240x240 and 480x480 but not 320x320.

--janak

[omikron.sk]

Well, the first time "dual slots" doesn't mean CF+SD, right?

[whydidnt]

The review does mention 240 x 240, which is a real negative as far as I'm concerned. Think how small your GPS maps will be on this unit. How usable will that be? The Treo 650 has basically double the resolution of this device in a smaller form factor.

While I applaud HP for addressing a lot of the issues the 6315 had (integratged keyboard, faster processor), they still don't seem to understand the high end market these would be expected to sell to. This will be the lowest resolution device on the market. With MS strange decision to limit functionality of Hi-Res devices, surely a 480 x 480 screen would make more sense. I've been hoping for a higher end PPC with built in GPS, and this comes close, but too many corners are cut.

Not only doesn't it include WiFi, but the SD card slot is on the side, meaning your WiFi SD card/antenna will be in the way of holding the device if you elect to go that route. I still have to ask--> Do the people who design these devices actually use them? It seem nearly every device has one significant flaw limiting it's usefulness.

I still am drooling over the potential of the MDA IV that we saw ealier this week - take that device and build in GPS and you may actually have "MY" perfect device.

[mv]

Please please HP, give us 480 x 480, wi fi or GPS as a choice, and i´ll just love it!!!! :rock on dude!:

[jpaq]

HP does 3/4 of the job again. The sad thing is that they'll charge double what they should for a machine that is 3/4 of what it should be. :roll:

What is wrong with the WM2003 makers? If getting the design and packaging so hard?

The platform may die as a result of slow sales which will be the result of poor design, lack of innovation, poor execution, and the nickel and dining of the OEM's.

It's both frustrating and a shame. :cry:

[ricksfiona]

I didn't like the looks, and now with the news of no wifi and included gps I am really wondering who the market for this is? What kind of mobile worker would not use WiFi? Data plans are just not cheap enough yet to pass on the wifi, imho. I would put money on it also that HP put a 240x240 screen rather than 320 x 320, you just watch.

I think it would be a no-brainer Treo killer if it had WiFi. Without WiFi, it's not an OBVIOUS choice for the non-techies.

[Tye]

10:1 this thing runs Magneto and the 240x240 resolution won't be as bad as it sounds because of the built-in keyboard. The merging of the two OS, Smartphone and PPC will be interesting.
Lack of Wi-Fi surprises me but it seems like this was built more for messaging and voice than heavy duty websurfing. GPS will be a nice addition for those who need it.
Excepting the backward compatibility from the square screen I bet this will be a nice device for the people they're targetting.

[bdegroodt]

I *really* think HP is missing the '05 boat by not including WiFi in this device. First, I won't touch one without WiFi, but that's my personal preference. More importantly (and maybe this is planned obsolesence) but I believe this is the year of WiFi/Cell convergence. The battle for cellular future is going to be shaped in a large way by VOIP WiFi this year and any device that can't get this done isn't going to be a real "competitor" in the 2005/2006 PPC marketplace.

No WiFi is just absurd--even if you don't believe the convergence theory.

[Damion Chaplin]

The only reason I can think of that HP would leave out WiFi is because they're expecting everyone to just buy an unlimited data plan (which are dropping in price). With an unlimited data plan, they're thinking most people won't notice the lack of WiFi as their PPC will be 'always on' the internet...

Power users (us) are another matter. We want speed when we surf, so whenever we're within range of an AP, we're going to switch.

Most people wouldn't bother. Think of all the Treos you see everyday. Most of these people (like my boss) use this item as a phone with email and advanced PIM functions. They will never watch movies or listen to MP3s and definitely won't bother to switch over to the WiFi radio when they're already getting their email just fine the way it is.

To those people, it's not worth the extra $50 for the WiFi radio.

[Stephen Beesley]

10:1 this thing runs Magneto and the 240x240 resolution won't be as bad as it sounds because of the built-in keyboard...

Huhhhh.....

How does a built in keyboard compensate for lousey screen resolution. As another poster already said - imagine trying to display a usable map on that resolution. Now 480x480 might have made it interesting.

On the plus side I like the idea of the Dual slot SD/MiniSD and check out the mounting points for the flip cover - the revenge of the Jornada!

[Zack Mahdavi]

This looks pretty cool. Hopefully HP will not skimp on anything.. that's what they'll have to do for this to be a true Treo killer. The software has to be perfectly polished.

[Tye]

10:1 this thing runs Magneto and the 240x240 resolution won't be as bad as it sounds because of the built-in keyboard...

Huhhhh.....

How does a built in keyboard compensate for lousey screen resolution. As another poster already said - imagine trying to display a usable map on that resolution. Now 480x480 might have made it interesting.

On the plus side I like the idea of the Dual slot SD/MiniSD and check out the mounting points for the flip cover - the revenge of the Jornada!

Heh, I knew someone would question my statement right after I pressed submit.

What I mean is that because "we" won't need to worry about an SIP, the square resolution isn't as much of a limiting factor. I absolutely agree that 480x480 would be better. I love the VGA screen on my 4705 and can't imagine going back to a low DPI device. However, for the people that I'm guessing HP is targetting, I don't think that will be as big an issue. Plenty of people--even "power users" that post here--are fine with low DPI.

Regarding maps on 240x240, yeah I agree. That would suck. Again though, I don't think their target audience will care as much.

[Tye]

but I still love my Newtons!

BTW, me too :(

[Ed Hansberry]

but I still love my Newtons!

BTW, me too :(
Same here. I eat fig newtons almost every night! :worried:

[dma1965]

I was a loyal iPaq owner since 2001, starting with a 3670 and ending with a 4155. I recently switched to a Siemens SX66 when my carrier, Cingular, started carrying it and now as I look at hp I do not think they will win me back. The SX66 has just about everything I need, and then some. WiFi is extremely important to me. Not just for surfing, but also because I often transfer files over my lan to and from my PPC and also ActiveSync with my PPC, both which are basically impossible without WiFi (I know I could FTP, VPN, etc., but WiFi is braindead simple). Hp, as of late, is just not cutting it. What amazes me the most is the 4155 is perhaps the single greatest PDA hp ever produced, and everything since pales is comparison to it. Everything now is bulky, odd, slow, or hampered is some way or another. I hope they get back on track. Customer loyalty goes a long way in the tech world, and they have lost mine due to lack of performance.

[Tye]

Same here. I eat fig newtons almost every night! :worried: :twak:

[yslee]

Amazing huh. Displaying maps at 320 x 240 is ok (never heard anyone complain), but 240x240 is just too low a resolution, even if they technically have the same resolution.

[Stephen Beesley]

Amazing huh. Displaying maps at 320 x 240 is ok (never heard anyone complain), but 240x240 is just too low a resolution, even if they technically have the same resolution.

Point taken - maybe resolution isn't so much the problem as the actual number of pixels on the screen. You are going to get less of a given map (at the same resolution) on a 240x240 screen than on a 320x240 screen - lots more scrolling involved which is particularly a problem when you are on the move.

[whydidnt]

Amazing huh. Displaying maps at 320 x 240 is ok (never heard anyone complain), but 240x240 is just too low a resolution, even if they technically have the same resolution.

Technically they don't have the same resolution. 320 x 240 has a total of 76,800 pixels. 240 x 240 has a total of 57,600 pixels, which is 75% of the previous number. I doubt many people run their current device in GPS mode with the SIP open.

I've always felt the QVGA devices were barely displayed enough map information to be useful while driving. I don't think 240 x 240 will provide a great GPS experience.

[Jonathon Watkins]

Please please HP, give us 480 x 480, wi fi or GPS as a choice, and i´ll just love it!!!! :rock on dude!:

Agreed, it had better be 480x480......... :? What's the point of having anything less?

[yslee]

Point taken - maybe resolution isn't so much the problem as the actual number of pixels on the screen. You are going to get less of a given map (at the same resolution) on a 240x240 screen than on a 320x240 screen - lots more scrolling involved which is particularly a problem when you are on the move.

True, but unless you're driving (and you really shouldn't be doing that, I think) it's not so much a big deal if the software implementation is good. Something like stepless zooming for the map display. I remember using an early version of a local electronic map; the zoom levels were so disparate and useless that it didn't matter I was using it on an old notebook at 800x600!

[darrylb]

Agreed, it had better be 480x480......... :? What's the point of having anything less?

It comes back to battery life and simplicity.

The good thing about this is size, keyboard and phone/wireless. HP is looking to win Treo customers - not PPC customers. Treo customers want a small simple device and the HP answer is a great one.

Even if HP only get 3/4 of the product right (as far as we are concerned) it is the 3/4 that counts in terms of their target market.

I say good on HP - the less excuses someone has to buy a palm the better ;)

[Jonathon Watkins]

Agreed, it had better be 480x480......... :? What's the point of having anything less?

It comes back to battery life and simplicity.

OK, the battery life argument I can see (even though having a higher resolution screen should not make too much of a difference), but I don't buy the simplicity argument. A 2 inch 480x480 screen would be much more readable than a 2 inch 240x240 screen. The quality difference is immediately apparent

Even if HP only get 3/4 of the product right (as far as we are concerned) it is the 3/4 that counts in terms of their target market.

I say good on HP - the less excuses someone has to buy a palm the better ;)

Agreed on the second point, but why can't HP finish a job? 3/4 of the way may be better than nothing, but still isn't good enough. :?

[Phoenix]

I *really* think HP is missing the '05 boat by not including WiFi in this device. First, I won't touch one without WiFi, but that's my personal preference. More importantly (and maybe this is planned obsolesence) but I believe this is the year of WiFi/Cell convergence. The battle for cellular future is going to be shaped in a large way by VOIP WiFi this year and any device that can't get this done isn't going to be a real "competitor" in the 2005/2006 PPC marketplace.

No WiFi is just absurd--even if you don't believe the convergence theory.

I agree. I think full GPS integrated into a handheld/convergence device is a great thing, but if I had to choose between this and WiFi, I'd go with WiFi everytime. I think most people would, just based on how popular WiFi is right now.

And I think we all know just how hot. GPS, not so much. And we know there are already BT-enabled GPS transceivers which provide very nice solutions for handling the navigation side of things.

Excluding WiFi will undoubtedly alienate a lot of consumers. Integrating WiFi, or both, would have been better choices.

But HP has made their decisions. It'll be interesting to see how it fares.

[whydidnt]

The good thing about this is size, keyboard and phone/wireless. HP is looking to win Treo customers - not PPC customers. Treo customers want a small simple device and the HP answer is a great one.

But the low resolution 160 x 160 screen was one of the biggest complaints Treo users had with the original 600. The Higher res 320 x 320 has been one of the big selling points of the the 650. HP is missing the boat if they chose to go with a lower resolution device than the competition they are aiming at.

If the GPS isn't important, what makes average joe purchase this instead of the 650? You and I both agree that WM2003 is superior to POS, but every mainstream reviewer out there falls all over themselves to praise the Treos as "simple" convergence devices. HP has to beat, not just compete with the Treo to win in this space.